Jump to content
Search In
  • More options...
Find results that contain...
Find results in...
xking

GW and the bad names

Recommended Posts

3 hours ago, Kirjava13 said:

An alternative way might be to hire some fired up linguistics graduate and invent some very basic building blocks for some languages of the Mortal Realms

Nice idea as that is I think they’d need to get in line behind the biologists, theologians, sociologists etc etc that the setting could do with looking over it.

i have to say I do cringe a little bit at a fair few of the AoS names but then remember what I’m doing and check myself. In game they’re fine it’s just when they’re used in fiction as proper nouns that I can feel myself being dragged body & soul out of the moment (well that and nearly every other StormCast name).

Saying that I’d say that generally speaking AoS names seem to be a lot less pun based than the old WHFB world, but then if you’re going to build a super grim, dark & perilous world and use Monty Python as one of your key building blocks that’s probably always going to be the case and was a big part of its charm.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The old Warhammer was always fundamentally an absurd, bleak farce, and the daft names were a part of that. AoS takes itself much more seriously- I feel like if that's what they want to do with it then ok, fine, but they should be naming things appropriately if they want a super badass world instead of a goofy over-the-top one.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Beastmaster said:

Actually, I always thought that the Warcraft world was in wide parts... eh... inspired by Warhammer. As close to copyright infringement as they could get. 😎

Oh, and Schlusselschloss was just weird. Or Leicheberg.

The original Warcraft was an unsuccessful pitch for a licensed Warhammer game right? Now it's come full circle and the poster child army for AOS looks like a bunch of NPC guys you'd run into in act 4 of a Diablo game

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Jefferson Skarsnik said:

The original Warcraft was an unsuccessful pitch for a licensed Warhammer game right? Now it's come full circle and the poster child army for AOS looks like a bunch of NPC guys you'd run into in act 4 of a Diablo game

It was quite a bit more. The development had already started before they went different ways again so Blizzard simply recycled the work they had already done to do their own thing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
50 minutes ago, Kirjava13 said:

The old Warhammer was always fundamentally an absurd, bleak farce, and the daft names were a part of that. AoS takes itself much more seriously- I feel like if that's what they want to do with it then ok, fine, but they should be naming things appropriately if they want a super badass world instead of a goofy over-the-top one.

You are aware that Skaven are STILL in AoS and are perhaps even MORE insane and mad and crazy and - well - Skaven. If anything AoS is just Old World on steriods set to 11 in almost all respects. 

15 minutes ago, Panzer said:

It was quite a bit more. The development had already started before they went different ways again so Blizzard simply recycled the work they had already done to do their own thing.

Plus lets not forget that World of Warcraft is nothing like Warcraft 1-3. Even 3 was quite a big jump from 1 and 2. WoW, however, made huge changes and become its own beast and the lore in it is pretty much miles from the original games. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I always figured that the names of things within the setting were boiled down to the common tongue. With the realms being so vast and the races from each being so varied that we simply cannot pronounce or comprehend what they call Nulahmia or at least we would butcher it beyond any usefulness.

 

However we have heard that a mortarch built a city as a new version of a long forgotten place. A New Lahmia if you will. Whether Neferata likes that or not this is how her new city is know. 

This is how places like Didling and Mudford Sock  would get much better names in the common tongue. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'll be honest, I don't see the issue at all, and don't find the naming "bad" or "lazy" at all. Reading this thread is super mind-boggling to me, but I guess that goes to show how subjective this threads point is.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think most of the character names are actually pretty strong and work within their factions. Apart from storm cast whose entire naming is just very on the nose very obvious and slightly childish.

The names of places is for the most part too generic for its own good. But it at least is easier to come up with than a new language or some such

Makes it much easier for black library and fluff writers in general. And easier for us to come up with our own cities evil fortresses cursed lands etc. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To be honest, most of those very strange name creations came up, because GW wants to copyright those. This is why for example Fyrreslayer have an "y" instead of an "i", because they where not allowed to copyright the word "fire".

After they shot WHFB and lost some of the armies, as they froze some of the former designers out, they wanted to keep their stuff within their copyright. Because those designers took their work with them and didn't grant GW any right to their former designed products and product names.

This is why we will never see another Bretonnia and Khemri faction anymore anytime.

But I am with the creator of ths post, those names are often ridiculous and lousy.

Edited by Battlefury

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, Battlefury said:

To be honest, most of those very strange name creations came up, because GW wants to copyright those. This is why for example Fyreslayer have an "y" instead of an "i", because they where not allowed to copyright the word "fire".

The Fyreslayers sound like the stripper names of a group of firefighters.

Wait. That actually makes sense.

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think it's getting even more interesting when you look for Translations (thats a point that is quite bad for wikis because you basicly need both names to compare).

When we look at some of the Citynames (english <> german)

  • Hammerhal is the same in both languages
  • The Living City <> die lebende Stadt
  • Greywater Fastness <> Festung Grauwasser
  • Phoenicium is the same in both languages
  • Anvilguard <> Ambosswacht
  • Hallowheart <> Herzweih
  • Tempest Eye <> Sturmauge
  • Glymmsforge <> Glymmschmiede
  • Shadespire <> Schattenzinne (at least in the Shadespire novel, but "spire" has no real good sounding translations maybe "Spitze" but it would have been better if it wasn't translated in the first place )

For me as a german reader the english titels sound better but an english reader would most likely say the same about the german titles because in both cases it is another language.

But I think the worst cases of naming came in the realmgate wars for some of the chaos god corrupted landmarks with the world pimple translated to Weltenpickel and Scabrous Sprawl which was translated to Schorfweite.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, EMMachine said:

I think it's getting even more interesting when you look for Translations (thats a point that is quite bad for wikis because you basicly need both names to compare).

When we look at some of the Citynames (english <> german)

  • Hammerhal is the same in both languages
  • The Living City <> die lebende Stadt
  • Greywater Fastness <> Festung Grauwasser
  • Phoenicium is the same in both languages
  • Anvilguard <> Ambosswacht
  • Hallowheart <> Herzweih
  • Tempest Eye <> Sturmauge
  • Glymmsforge <> Glymmschmiede
  • Shadespire <> Schattenzinne (at least in the Shadespire novel, but "spire" has no real good sounding translations maybe "Spitze" but it would have been better if it wasn't translated in the first place )

For me as a german reader the english titels sound better but an english reader would most likely say the same about the german titles because in both cases it is another language.

But I think the worst cases of naming came in the realmgate wars for some of the chaos god corrupted landmarks with the world pimple translated to Weltenpickel and Scabrous Sprawl which was translated to Schorfweite.

A reason why I don't buy the german books. Names don't get translated, period. Hate it in games, hate it in books, hate it in general.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
27 minutes ago, Panzer said:

A reason why I don't buy the german books. Names don't get translated, period. Hate it in games, hate it in books, hate it in general.

The funny part is, that it's more often the the novels (where even warscroll names are translated), that have such translations (in case of Battletomes it is partly made, not everytime).

A reason I have german books is that I have the feeling that I read them faster.

In case of battletomes I actually have both most of the time (the german physical book + the english version in the App). In case of novels there is actually another problem. The problem that basicly only 25% of the stories are translated (and it was about 33 percent months ago) so I have read more english stories lately.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Battlefury no offence but I’m not sure you have the firmest grasp here on how copyright (and I’m guessing you mean trademarking), intellectual property or indeed things like work for hire/employment contracts work there. 

GW would certainly want to trademark their faction names, they’d be criminally incompetent if they didn’t. But beyond basic due diligence and protecting their IP the distinctive spelling is, in my opinion, nearly all about making their products unique in terms of online searches and creating a ‘unique’ universe with its own flavour, nothing to do with not being able to copyright the word ‘fire’, I mean ‘fire’ on its own would be a stretch sure but ‘fireslayers’ if not otherwise used should in theory be protectable.

And I’d love to know which designers under contract and employed by Games Workshop ‘took their work with them’ with the company left helpless as that would be a remarkable turn of events.

Anyway my knowledge of copyrights & the like nearly all comes from the music industry so I’m no expert but yeah I think you’ve got the wrong end of the stick here.

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The more I look through the lore and the names it is mainly I find the storm cast eternal names of unit and characters that is most weak in the naming convention. Star strike, hammerhand, solbright, stormsire, sure heart. They are meant to sound heroic and strong but end resembling the names you find on Chinese knock off avenger and star wars toys. The names of the units are also all so samey its difficult to remeber the difference between them all. 

 

Another thing they always seem to name oddly these days is the monsters can't just be a Griffin it's now an arcohippogryph dogweasel. 

We all know it's about copyright but some of it sounds rather inorganic when compared to other factions in the setting. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I dunno Ironman - Hulk - Thor (and a whole host of other Norse gods) - Black Panther - Superman - Batman - Dr Freeze - Joker. Honestly the DC/Marvel superheroes are not exactly brimming with originality in their names either. If anything GW's names are far superior in that at least they change up the spelling; sometimes use older spelling conventions (aelf) and also work with some different angles. 

 

 

I think its less about copyright and more about search results on Google. If when you type in Fyreslayers you get GW Fyreslayer in the top 10 results that works for GW. Otherwise its just trademarks and IP and copyright protection. 

I figure that its not just a "griffin" because GW is likely keeping an eye open to making more griffins. So they give them niche names. This leaves them open to having several different breeds and types of griffin. Same for things like dragons. We already have black, star, magma and warpfire dragon variations and that's whilst we lost the high elf and wood elf dragons. Specific breed names makes logical sense and also helps tell one griffin from another in the product listings which makes it clearer and easier for people to find what they want (don't forget GW has a big library of models) 

 

As for GW being unable to make Bretonnia because someone left their design team that's daft. It's FAR more likely that if someone on the design team WANTED to make Brets and then left that the spark and inspiration to make them left with them. The result being that no one in design "wants" to make them powerfully and management doesn't see sales figures and trends strong enough to push the issue from their end. We've seen that before - its mostly how Squats died off in that they fell into a similar black hole. Of course AoS is also a bit of an enigma since GW has removed a lot of content. WE really don't know all the ins and outs of why certain choices were made and we've heard some weak arguments (eg that they got to the final printing and "forgot" to include Tomb Kings and thus removed them from sale) which are likely more fan arguments than anything else. In the end what happened happened and GW is tight lipped about their desision making (probably helps whoever DOES make choices not get their email inbox flooded with demands and insults) 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, Overread said:

I think its less about copyright and more about search results on Google

well as I said it's less about copyright in that it has nothing to do with copyright at all.

you cannot copyright a name or title just as you cannot copyright an idea.

now you can potentially trademark a name but not the idea behind it. hence you could trademark 'hobbits' but not the concept of generic halflings, or 'duardin' but cannot lay any claim to the concept of fantasy dwarves

miniatures themselves are copyrightable, in that someone can't make an exact copy or I believe a clearly derivative work but at the same time there's potentially more flexibility here, say if you wanted to produce a range of 'Volcano Dwarves' and didn't use any explicit iconography or designs from the Fyreslayer range or mention their trademarked name you'd get away with it.

 

Edited by JPjr

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
37 minutes ago, Icegoat said:

The more I look through the lore and the names it is mainly I find the storm cast eternal names of unit and characters that is most weak in the naming convention. Star strike, hammerhand, solbright, stormsire, sure heart. They are meant to sound heroic and strong but end resembling the names you find on Chinese knock off avenger and star wars toys. The names of the units are also all so samey its difficult to remeber the difference between them all. 

In case of Stormcast it's really most likely the title that's partly weird (and I know my own Stormcast characters aren't better with Names like "Valten Blazenheart", "Victor Brightsoul", "Morbius", "Yelena Stormheart", "Riko and Samuel Stormclaw" etc.)

The only case there I remember the title was coming from is Orius Adamantine, who makes his name with a mission on Mount Adamantine in Azyr.

I think, in most cases the Title is often given after a mission, a charactertrade (looking at Gardus Steelsoul). Sadly those titles are often translated as well.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
53 minutes ago, Icegoat said:

The more I look through the lore and the names it is mainly I find the storm cast eternal names of unit and characters that is most weak in the naming convention. Star strike, hammerhand, solbright, stormsire, sure heart. They are meant to sound heroic and strong but end resembling the names you find on Chinese knock off avenger and star wars toys. The names of the units are also all so samey its difficult to remeber the difference between them all. 

 

Another thing they always seem to name oddly these days is the monsters can't just be a Griffin it's now an arcohippogryph dogweasel. 

We all know it's about copyright but some of it sounds rather inorganic when compared to other factions in the setting. 

Coming back to how names from other languages are perceived, As a native german speaker, I like the different Stormcast names. A Lord-Aquilor is a leader, a Knight-Vexilor is a small hero. Most unit names do a great job telling me what they are about while the different stick with a certain theme.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 hours ago, MitGas said:

Actually Ferrus isn't exactly correct I think (I had the pleasure of a few years of ancient latin in school, meh). FerruM means iron. Ferrus is hogwash. 

 

FerrOUS is an adjective which means containing iron. I.E. "Steel is a ferrous metal." So FerrUS is just "warhammerese."   

Edited by sal4m4nd3r

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
35 minutes ago, Gecktron said:

Coming back to how names from other languages are perceived, As a native german speaker, I like the different Stormcast names. A Lord-Aquilor is a leader, a Knight-Vexilor is a small hero. Most unit names do a great job telling me what they are about while the different stick with a certain theme.

As a native german speaker I have to say that I too find most Stormcast names pretty silly. ^^

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Icegoat said:

The more I look through the lore and the names it is mainly I find the storm cast eternal names of unit and characters that is most weak in the naming convention. Star strike, hammerhand, solbright, stormsire, sure heart. They are meant to sound heroic and strong but end resembling the names you find on Chinese knock off avenger and star wars toys. The names of the units are also all so samey its difficult to remeber the difference between them all. 

 

Another thing they always seem to name oddly these days is the monsters can't just be a Griffin it's now an arcohippogryph dogweasel. 

We all know it's about copyright but some of it sounds rather inorganic when compared to other factions in the setting. 

I think it's another language issue, in my own language starstrike, hammerhand, etc. are not that bad

but in case of justicator, prosecutor and castigator...can they be dumber?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Stormcast naming trend with taking random words and ading 'or' to the end is in places, arguably, the weakest point of AoS lore. Venator and Relictor are cool. Vexilor isn't terrible, Aquilor is iffy, but Heraldor sounds like a parody honestly. Same with units: Prosecutors and castigators? Cool enough. Concussors? Well it has a potential. Grug the Concussor sounds like a perfectly legitimate comedy barbarian.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Don't have as much issues with individual names of cities or heroes as much as I do with factions and units. I mean come on. Aelfs, Gloomspite Gitz, Aeldari wtf. I understand that it is rooted in an copyright lawsuit but its still ridiculous. There must have been another way. And also the units names....Retributor, Liberator, Executor, Prosecutor, Evocator...they not only are very hard to remember in the beginning they also don't stick with you very well and make no sense. What is Sequitor even supposed to mean...or Evocator? I hope they find a way to come up with better names soon. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 hours ago, Still-young said:

Allopex I’m guessing is from the Thresher Shark genus, Alopias. 

I don’t have a problem with the names, some are a bit campy and naff but it doesn’t bother me, but the Idoneth stuff is some of the better examples, in my opinion. They actually sound like a different fantasy language rather than 2 generic fantasy words stitched together. 

 

23 hours ago, michu said:

They are probably based on some irish words as they GW loves to use that for aelven names.

Fangmora is definitely a mix of "fang" and "moray" (as they are giant moray eels) and someone once found a latin name of shark close to allopex but I can't find it now.

Good to know that, some mysteries have finnally been resolved, thanks so much hivemind!

I am not against names that sounds totally fantasy, as long as the creator is willing to explain what they mean and how they make sense, for instance, those names created by beloved Tolkein in Middle-Earth. In the case of AOS, I think they really should released something like an appendix to explain the meaning behind, to help these new phrases make more sense.

It's interesting that I am totally fine with names made by some 'silly' combination, hallowheart for instance, maybe beacasue english itself already sounds as alien as a kind of  fantasy language, but clear enough for me to understand lol.

BTW

Does hivemind have any idea on what Ishlaen and Morrsarrr mean? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...