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xking

GW and the bad names

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6 minutes ago, michu said:

Acting like your subjective opinion is a fact definitely fits the definition of "childish".

Did I say my opinion was a fact?  unless I state otherwise. Everything I say on here is going to be an opinion.

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It's about brand awareness.

If you type Dwarf Army into Google, you're as like to get Lord of the Rings, D&D, Warcraft, unspecific fantasy art, maybe Mantic, etc.

If you type Duradin Army into Google, you'll only receive Games Workshop content. 

If Lil Timmy types in Dwarf Army he might, gasp, see non-GW content which might avert his gaze from said GW products and they don't want that. The same thing goes for location names, even among people who know say... Duradin is just a AoS Dwarf. They still don't want the chance Big Rob is going to catch glimpse of some other fantasy (or sci-fi) setting if he types in a similarish enough name for Google to spit out other company's content.

Edited by Clan's Cynic
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I could say that Gromril is a lazy and amateurish naming as it's just a bit changed Mithril. That argument works both way. 

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+++ MOD HAT +++

Don't think I really need to point out where the topic has deviated do I?  Behave...

Naming anything is always a challenge, look round the UK and you'll find numerous examples of bizarre names (Goatacre near me) or names that are duplicated.  There are even place names that are copies of other with the prefix of "New".  AoS has the added challenge that things need to be "in keeping" with the residents or realm so you do get a certain amount of repetition - flame..., skull... etc.  That said if you look at narrative army lists where people have named characters, you actually get very similar repetition.

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3 minutes ago, michu said:

I could say that Gromril is a lazy and amateurish naming as it's just a bit changed Mithril. That argument works both way. 

Yes, But does it sound better then fire+steel? 

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The laziest name in fantasy is Mount Doom.

AoS had great names in comparison. The issue in trying to make a setting with no (surface-level) reference to our own world is it will never be "believable" and won't resonate with us. In the Old World, german-sounding town names worked because we have Germany with german-sounding town names. YOu just need to suspend your disbelief a little more in AoS than in fantasy.

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Going to be a smartass, but it's actually fyresteel, being a main component to fyreslayers.

Gromril sounds like every other dwarfen metal, like from The Eldar Scrolls Dwemer or Snowwhite's Seven Dwarfs , while Fyresteel ist quite obviously connected to Fyreslayers and Fyreslayers are unique to Warhammer. Gromril could be any shape, any form, maybe even a nice dwarfen sandwhich made of Fyrepyckles. While Fyresteel burns and vibrates from the sound of it. 

But theres definitly no good or bad here, just preference. Just because it sounds unfamiliar or "pseudolatin", it's not more or less epic. We're just biased by LotR (which had all those crazy names in it and still dictates how we perceive fantasy to date) which we probably all think of the fantasyworld. 

Edited by DerZauberer
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Warhammer and Tolkien used "Foreign languages" to make Minas Tirith, Bordeleaux or Altdorf both exotic but based in a culture/history, we don´t have that in AoS, we don´t have that in AoS

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In fairness to GW we were really lazy in naming a lot of places in America, like New York or James Town. Also somewhere in the UK there's a Godmanchester. 

Heck look at regular names people have, "Smith" is purely an evolution of the fact that in the past there was Dave and Dave was a smith so he was Dave the Smith to get around the fact that another person in the town was also called Dave. Today we either blindly overlook the simplicity of many names because we learned them when we were young; or the name is simplistic only when translated from its original language. After the natural drifting of language, the invasions and influences from other cultures, political shifts etc... there's a whole rafter if fancy sounding names that are just simplistic descriptions.

 

We notice it more in fantasy. 

Personally I only get annoyed when its more character names than place or thing names. I don't mind "Fire Steel" but if your warlock is called "Flamey the Warlock" that sounds worse.

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2 minutes ago, Overread said:

"Flamey the Warlock"

Ferrus Manus, primarch of Iron Hands;) (for the record, I like that name).

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Gotta be honest, a lot of these names do come off as just lazy and dumb, real bargain basement extruded fantasy product (just like WoW, for that matter), hence their being so easy to parody. I cant think of a single stormcast character (except Hamilcar) whose title/surname doesn't feel like it came from a  random online name generator for D&D. Same for the majority of the fyreslayer line, a whole bunch of the Khorne and Nurgle lines, some Nighthaunt...

There are plenty of decent new and yeah, even compound words in AoS mind. It's when they get paired up with a second word, usually a noun derived from a verb, that they fall down. 'Ossiarch Bonereapers' is more cheesy and less compelling than something like 'Ossiarch Legions' or similar. Or basically any unit name for nighthaunt. What do "Grimghast Reaper" or "Glavewraith Stalker" or "Bladegheist Revenants" have over simply  "Grimghasts/Reaperghasts", "Glaivewraiths" or "Bladegheists"? At least those have a fun Germanic folktale/gothic horror atmosphere, even if -ghulf/-gheist/-ghast are pretty overused throughout the death range.

And it's not like they can't think up good names - every single Ossiarch subfaction name is an absolute banger - it's just when there's the need for something 'uniquely GW' or otherwise toyetic, like Clan's Cynic said.

Edited by sandlemad
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14 minutes ago, michu said:

Ferrus Manus, primarch of Iron Hands;) (for the record, I like that name).

It's weird, right? Ferrus Manus literally means Iron Hands and is utterly dumb if you think about it.

It has to be something with foreign sounding names, as "Altdorf" or "Reikland" sound cool in english, but utterly dumb for germans, as they translate into "Old Village" or "Princeland". People in germany were mad as cities in WoW were named e.g. from "Ironforge" to "Eisenschmiede" in the german client, which is the exact translation. 

Is Umbraturris cooler then Shadespire? Ferroignis cooler then Fyresteel? 

Edited by DerZauberer

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Exactly @DerZauberer. For example I saw once a map of Sabbat Worlds - there was a planet named Zbigniew! In polish that's just a common name  and it sounds a bit cheesy for Poles but for me that cheesiness is a part of Warhammer charm. One planet in the Caphias Cain novel were named in latin (I'm sorry, High Gothic) but in english it's name was "assendofnowhere". 

ps. Umbra Turris is a name of Spellcrow setting for their not-Warhammer miniatures - https://www.spellcrow.com/umbra-turris-c-1.html

And @sandlemad those Nighthaunt names have a purpose. For example glavewraith stalkers are exactly that - they slowly stalk their enemies, they can run but in the end they will die of Glavewraith's blades.

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As not-native English speaker I do agree with some of the names are really comfusing.

I mean, brighspear and shadespire are relatively fine since at least you can understand what they mean based on English

The real hell, take a example, are those names in Idoneth

Just what the heck is Namarti, Isharaan and Akhelian? Is there any meaning behind them or are they just named as such for cool?

Leviadon may be based on leviathan, but what about allopex and fangmora?  You can just call allopex "war shark', yeah I know it's dumb but at least people will know what it is at the first glance, and allopex is not interesting either

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21 minutes ago, DerZauberer said:

It's weird, right? Ferrus Manus literally means Iron Hands and is utterly dumb if you think about it.

It has to be something with foreign sounding names, as "Altdorf" or "Reikland" sound cool in english, but utterly dumb for germans, as they translate into "Old Village" or "Princeland". People in germany were mad as cities in WoW were named e.g. from "Ironforge" to "Eisenschmiede" in the german client, which is the exact translation. 

Is Umbraturris cooler then Shadespire? Ferroignis cooler then Fyresteel? 

Actually, in Germany there are six towns called Altdorf. Plus several in Switzerland. 😅

Reikland sounds like Rheinland for a german. Named after the river Rhein/Reik. Makes perfect sense. 

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27 minutes ago, sandlemad said:

Gotta be honest, a lot of these names do come off as just lazy and dumb, real bargain basement extruded fantasy product (just like WoW, for that matter), hence their being so easy to parody. I cant think of a single stormcast character (except Hamilcar) whose title/surname doesn't feel like it came from a  random online name generator for D&D. Same for the majority of the fyreslayer line, a whole bunch of the Khorne and Nurgle lines, some Nighthaunt...

There are plenty of decent new and yeah, even compound words in AoS mind. It's when they get paired up with a second word, usually a noun derived from a verb, that they fall down. 'Ossiarch Bonereapers' is more cheesy and less compelling than something like 'Ossiarch Legions' or similar. Or basically any unit name for nighthaunt. What do "Grimghast Reaper" or "Glavewraith Stalker" or "Bladegheist Revenants" have over simply  "Grimghasts/Reaperghasts", "Glaivewraiths" or "Bladegheists"? At least those have a fun Germanic folktale/gothic horror atmosphere, even if -ghulf/-gheist/-ghast are pretty overused throughout the death range.

And it's not like they can't think up good names - every single Ossiarch subfaction name is an absolute banger - it's just when there's the need for something 'uniquely GW' or otherwise toyetic, like Clan's Cynic said.

It's funny to criticize something for being lazy while also saying your preferred name is just, well, the lazier version of what they already made. 

"Ossiarch Bonereapers" is lazy and dumb, but "Ossiarch Legions" is good. "Glaivewraith Stalker" is lazy and dumb, but just "Glaivewraiths" is fine and good. 

"Legion" just means, well, a lot. "Reaper" is a word with a lot more connotation, and "Bonereaper" adds a lot of description to that. "Ossiarch Legions" may as well be the name for a Deathrattle horde. Same with "Stalker" or "Revenant." When you read the fluff for the Glaivewraith Stalker, they seem quite, well, stalker-y! 

Edited by smartazjb0y
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8 minutes ago, Whitefang said:

As not-native English speaker I do agree with some of the names are really comfusing.

I mean, brighspear and shadespire are relatively fine since at least you can understand what they mean based on English

The real hell, take a example, are those names in Idoneth

Just what the heck is Namarti, Isharaan and Akhelian? Is there any meaning behind them or are they just named as such for cool?

Leviadon may be based on leviathan, but what about allopex and fangmora?  You can just call allopex "war shark', yeah I know it's dumb but at least people will know what it is at the first glance, and allopex is not interesting either

Allopex I’m guessing is from the Thresher Shark genus, Alopias. 

I don’t have a problem with the names, some are a bit campy and naff but it doesn’t bother me, but the Idoneth stuff is some of the better examples, in my opinion. They actually sound like a different fantasy language rather than 2 generic fantasy words stitched together. 

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Honestly all the compound nouns do get very silly, especially, as with the most egregious example, Khorne, when the brand image gets hammered home so relentlessly (blood-, skull- or slaughter- will see you through for basically everything). It starts to get very easy to make fun of, like everything was named by a toy company from the 90s.

Unlike the gentleman a few posts above me, I prefer things like Akhelian, Isharan and Namarti- they take a tiny bit more learning but they sound like actual names for things, as opposed to someone just dropped a bucket of nouns into a name generator.

Edited by Kirjava13
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Just now, Whitefang said:

Namarti, Isharaan and Akhelian

They are probably based on some irish words as they GW loves to use that for aelven names.

Fangmora is definitely a mix of "fang" and "moray" (as they are giant moray eels) and someone once found a latin name of shark close to allopex but I can't find it now.

Saying that AoS names are childish or lazy is not a good argument when in WFB (I know they are still named like that but they names were invented for wfb)  some Lizardmen beasts were named "Stegadon" (looks like triceratops) and Ripperdactyls.

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3 minutes ago, Kirjava13 said:

Khorne,

Khorne is not known for his subtlety. Bloodletters? Bloodthirsters? Valkia the Bloody? Skulltaker?

For me both name conventions are fine. I like foreign-like words based on real languages but "Shadespire" and "Hallowheart" are also good.

Edited by michu

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3 minutes ago, michu said:

They are probably based on some irish words as they GW loves to use that for aelven names.

Fangmora is definitely a mix of "fang" and "moray" (as they are giant moray eels) and someone once found a latin name of shark close to allopex but I can't find it now.

Saying that AoS names are childish or lazy is not a good argument when in WFB (I know they are still named like that but they names were invented for wfb)  some Lizardmen beasts were named "Stegadon" (looks like triceratops) and Ripperdactyls.

They seemed a lot more subtle early on, but towards the end things got a bit silly. Ripperdactyls came out pretty much just before AoS.

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Sometimes it works fine. Stonehorn and  Thundertusk may not be exotic, but it gives you an immediate idea of how the mini looks and works.

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2 minutes ago, Still-young said:

They seemed a lot more subtle early on, but towards the end things got a bit silly.

Classic characters Tic-Tac-To, Itzi Bitzi, Lotl Botl, Tenehuini and Lord Kroak are here to have a word with you :D . Lizardmen in particular were never *subtle*. I agree that razordons and ripperdactyls sound cheesy as hell, but not exactly lubtler than any of the aforementioned. ; )

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28 minutes ago, Kirjava13 said:

Honestly all the compound nouns do get very silly, especially, as with the most egregious example, Khorne, when the brand image gets hammered home so relentlessly (blood-, skull- or slaughter- will see you through for basically everything). It starts to get very easy to make fun of, like everything was named by a toy company from the 90s.

Unlike the gentleman a few posts above me, I prefer things like Akhelian, Isharan and Namarti- they take a tiny bit more learning but they sound like actual names for things, as opposed to someone just dropped a bucket of nouns into a name generator.

"Alexander port city" is a superior name then "Alexandria".

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3 minutes ago, xking said:

"Alexander port city" is a superior name then "Alexandria".

Port Elizabeth, Port Moresby,  Newport, Southport, Kingsport....

We have such names in real world. 

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