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JPjr

Post battletomealooza what are you hoping for/expecting?

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With just a couple of battletomes left to be updated after this year’s mad sprint (Slaves to Darkness this Dec, presumably Disciples of Tzeentch, Star Hosts of the Seraphon and Kharadron Overlords early 2020, nothing else right?) there’s a good case to be made for focussing on filling out the existing factions with a few new units & heroes for each.

obviously we’ll still get at least 1 or 2 totally new armies (light/dark Aelves I guess) & another SC chamber, but if they were to go back and fill in the gaps in each faction what are you expecting?

I’ve been reading the Ogor Mawtribes book this weekend and it’s noticeable just how much they talk about the existence of both Over-Tyrants and Frost Kings as the pre-eminent chiefs of their respective Ogor-kind. Doesn’t exactly take much to imagine a dual kit of some super-massive Ogor riding some great beast.

I’m trying to think what else has been suggested, hinted at or outright mentioned in battletomes or books that we might reasonably expect over the next year or so... Cogforts, or at least smaller versions, for instance or there’s been giant bat riding Skaven in a Josh Reynolds book which is maybe less of a direct hint of future plans than mention in a battletome but would clearly be awesome and fill a role no one else in that range does.

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I think what is currently a bit missing in many armies although it would fit is artillery. Also there are still some armies with not many unit choices, which can be filled with new and creative units. 

I think they will expand the more traditional, long neglected armies first: Elves/Dwarves/Orruks/Cities/classic Vampires. Still a lot of fans for those, so a relatively safe investment for them.  It’s also what is needed to make the „crazier“ stuff stand out more.

Edited by Beastmaster
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I think a Psychic Awakening-style event for AoS wouldn't go amiss. A round of smaller updates for every army, either introducing new units for the newer/smaller armies or beautiful new resculpts for older armies, done via dual battle boxes (the availability of which needs to be carefully managed), books and events, before more general releases, and it could fold in the continuing new/rejigged armies AoS will keep seeing.

You might see, I dunno, Corruption of the Sea: Nurgle and Idoneth get the spotlight. Both get a new unit, Nurgle gets some Pestigor and Idoneth get a dude riding a giant crab. Or Shadows In The Forest: the Kurnothi get an army release and get packaged in with new Skaven sculpts for Clan Eshin Gutter Runners and Night Runners (and since I'm already at full mast, why not Death Runners too?).

Basically continue the process of clearing out the metal and resin, whilst also feeding us shiny new things.

Edited by Kirjava13
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Small “expansion packs” for the armies would be great. Fill in obvious holes and update models. Im surprised Chaos Warriors are getting an update but not Ardboyz.

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AoS has three types of army at present

1) Big armies taht mostly survived the end of the Old World well, but at left with a lot of legacy models in old plastic, finecast and even metal. Skaven are possibly one of the best examples, but Seraphon and several others are in a similar spot. They are in sore need of a big range update that wouldn't actually add anything new mechanically to the army; but would bring them up to date in terms of modern models.

2) Small armies. Daughters of Khaine, Fyreslayers, Flesh Eaters - several AoS armies are really small. Even when they use a lot of duel kits (DoK are full of multi-role kits) they still have very few actual models to their name. There's big gaps and openings to diversify the range heavily and add new features and models to them. DoK could do with a new cheaper leader (right now you can only get leaders with the cauldron set or morathi - both quite expensive); Flesheaters could do with, well, almost anything that isn't in their start collecting set etc... 

3) Big armies with a diverse range of modern models. Yeah Stormcast you don't need any more!! Heck you also get at least one or two "limited edition sculpts" a year as well! 

 

 

I also agree that artillery is a big gap. A lot of those models seemed to quite randomly vanish at the end of the Old World and continuing on we've lost even more including the heavily mentioned Cities of Sigmar dwarf cannon. In fact dwarves have gone from artillery heavy to almost nothing. So there's big gaps and room for fleshing out artillery options in many armies. Heck DoK, Flesheaters, etc.... many of those smaller armies don't even have any artillery. So yep I can see GW perhaps doing a big wave of artillery models.

 

New mechanics. Another angle is to add new mechanical slots to the game. AoS has been really light on slots; you've got leaders, troops, behemoths and artillery and that's about it. Now granted there is subdivision within them (such as warrior or mage leaders) but its not like in 40K where there are a lot more breakdowns. I can see AoS benefitting from it in terms of diversifying the game and range and encouraging varied builds. An easy one to add would be to split flying into "full time flying" and "its basically jumping" flight. Perhaps even letting some models swap between the two states. So a dragon could be either flying or on the ground whilst things like terradones (so) would have to remain in the air. Though such a big mechanical change might have to wait for a new 3.0 edition of the rules. 

 

 

 

In the end there's a lot of potential and its clear that GW is mostly doing it all at once. We get new armies (Ossiarchs); we get new models for existing armies (for crying out loud though GW stop leaving 12 months or so between a duel box new model and its retail release); we get replacement models. So we are getting it all in bits for each faction. The real question is which faction gets it next and with AoS as it is right now its really easy to argue for almost any faction to be next (barring one or two - which is often stormcast. However armies like Nighthaunt and Khorne are also pretty large and well varied). 

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Artillery has definitely been a notable absence in most factions so far. Which I could definitely understand if the goal has been to get every range up to a certain level before we start adding that kind of, potentially much more powerful, stuff in as that really could have skewed results against those who hadn't been shown any love yet.

Would make sense to start adding those kind of kits in now when pretty much most armies are a bit more developed, ESPECIALLY if we were to get some kind of expansion in the next 12-18 months that focussed on sieges and larger scale fights.

I have beautiful visions of some kind of giant siege weapon mounted on top of a giant crab for Idoneth for example, oh boy!

@Overread in terms of aerial units I totally agree, I'd like (and indeed expect to see) a few more aerial units for not all but a decent amount of factions, and potentially in the medium term 1 or 2 factions more airborne focused factions (or sub-factions) to directly compete with Kharadron Overlords and maybe give room to expand and develop aerial battles.

whilst it goes against the whole keep things simple ethos I agree and definitely think at some point they should draw a line between different types of flying units. I've long had an idea to create an 'aerial table', so a normal table board but everything painted on it in much smaller scale, then on top of that a few fluffy clouds and some mountain peaks, than laid over that about 6" up a perspex sheet covering the whole table that you then play the aerial combats on. would be weird having things like Squigs jumping around up there.

on a slightly related tip at some point I'd rewrite the ethereal rule so you dont have to give every ghost the power of full flight to achieve the effect they're going for.

Edited by JPjr
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Honestly the whole "two boards/two layers" thing always sounds fun but in practice I don't think its ever proven to work.  The closest I've seen some games get to is things where you've got Dropfleet and Dropcommander games where you've two distinct battle boards that influence on another (in that ground and high atmosphere). 

That said even if they just introduce flying into two forms it would work really well. I agree it would need to shift the terms around since "flying" right now covers everything form, as you say, ghosts going through stuff all the way to all the time flying models like airships. Terrain and the interaction with it is one area of the rules that I really hope GW firms up, details and makes a bigger thing. 

I can't help but feel that we might not get it though and that GW will keep pusihgn terrain as a "warscroll" feature instead of generalist; which whilst it might help drive some GW sales of terrain features; also makes it a bit more messy than a longer section in the rules. 

 

 

I could certainly see GW doing a larger siege and larger battle expansion like they've done for 40K with Apoc. What holds it back a bit is that you can clearly see GW has "overcosted" models in AoS to reduce model count (you can see this in demon armies where 40K ones can put down more models than AoS ones). I think that we will steadily see GW either push toward 3K standard or lower point values steadily over time across the game to shift the scale. Which is fine because they've bolstered the lower point value game a lot. With Warcry, Skirmish, Underworld etc... there's multiple avenues to get games at smaller values and for marketing to focus on them so that new people are aware of them. Plus the unique and rebalanced rules for them means that they "WORK". It's not like the Old World where 500point battles were dull single or two blocks of troops just charging at each other and with most armies breaking (either over or under powered) in 1K games or less. 

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I hope that they don’t develop the artillery aspect of Aos. I think that the most prominent thing about fantasy settings is the concept of two armys clashing together. I fear that by giving all the armys artillery we will get into the arms race and turtling that 40k is nowadays. As it is, I think that artillery is too precise (lacks the random component of old fantasy) and it could be too effective agaisnt characters (and is a shame to punish the inclusion of heroes in an epic fantasy setting)

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On 11/10/2019 at 3:52 AM, JPjr said:

With just a couple of battletomes left to be updated after this year’s mad sprint (Slaves to Darkness this Dec, presumably Disciples of Tzeentch, Star Hosts of the Seraphon and Kharadron Overlords early 2020, nothing else right?) there’s a good case to be made for focussing on filling out the existing factions with a few new units & heroes for each.

obviously we’ll still get at least 1 or 2 totally new armies (light/dark Aelves I guess) & another SC chamber, but if they were to go back and fill in the gaps in each faction what are you expecting?

I’ve been reading the Ogor Mawtribes book this weekend and it’s noticeable just how much they talk about the existence of both Over-Tyrants and Frost Kings as the pre-eminent chiefs of their respective Ogor-kind. Doesn’t exactly take much to imagine a dual kit of some super-massive Ogor riding some great beast.

I’m trying to think what else has been suggested, hinted at or outright mentioned in battletomes or books that we might reasonably expect over the next year or so... Cogforts, or at least smaller versions, for instance or there’s been giant bat riding Skaven in a Josh Reynolds book which is maybe less of a direct hint of future plans than mention in a battletome but would clearly be awesome and fill a role no one else in that range does.

They'll probably update Nurgle, since its the only other battletome with no sub-factions, and new Legions of Nagash (Possibly split into the deathrattle/deadwalker legions and soulblight) because many of the warscrolls are out of date with the newer death releases.

Light/shadow Aelves have been hinted at, so we'll get those probably within the next couple of years. There's also the Kurnothi from Beastgrave, which will probably be part of a new faction within the next couple of years.

We'll probably see a new destruction faction - perhaps a Gitmob/Greenskin hordes combined faction. Yeah, they were squatted for now, but, a combined old-school Orcs and Goblins style faction with a whole new model range might still have potential. Destruction needs more stuff, and the current Orruk Warclans are just the strongest orcs with mostly newer models. What happened to all the other roving bands of weaker greenskins that they wouldn't consider part of their own factions?

Another Death faction - maybe a Soulblight faction based on the wandering blood knights; given the lore in the Legions of Nagash book, their numbers should be growing, and with their relative independence from the rest of the army list, it'd make a lot of sense if they developed their own faction.

Edited by Asamu
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Kharadron Overlords army has lots of issues and gaps that need filling. Huge issues and gaps. No good melee options, our firepower is weak, and lots of units are paying too much points for their multi-role status namely the Frigate and Ironclad. In the lore it’s been said they are innovators so it’s easy for them to get updated as they are always inventing stuff. Simple buffs will not be enough due to in lore how they designed these ships. 

We need a new hero who makes another unit battleline, we need a basic melee troop, and more advance one. Finally a dedicated from the ground up combat ship would be fantastic no transport capacity. Then finally the obligatory terrain and possibly an endless spells style thing (endless machinery?) and we’ll be in a decent spot with some build diversity. 

 

Will we get any of this? I doubt it. I have a feeling KO won’t get anything in our new book. GW is making it abundantly clear who they dislike. 

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1 hour ago, Asamu said:

Light/shadow Aelves were already announced,

Really? I dont think so. Mentioned in lore, sure, but we got no clue if we are gona get an army anytime soon.

Even rumor engines went kinda dry on elf department with the Kurnothi warband release.

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1 hour ago, Thiagoma said:

Really? I dont think so. Mentioned in lore, sure, but we got no clue if we are gona get an army anytime soon.

Even rumor engines went kinda dry on elf department with the Kurnothi warband release.

They did the whole Malekith/Tyrion art.

The factions are almost certainly happening, we just don't know when. My guess is we'll get at least one of them within the next year, because it's pretty rare to be showing art of something and making it part of the lore without it being well into development. It'd be weird for something to be a part of the lore for too long, especially in such a specific way, without being a part of the game.

There are still a few aelf looking pictures that aren't solved in the rumor engine.

I guess "announced" was the wrong word, but it's pretty hard to imagine them not getting factions relatively soon(TM).

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Malaneth's faction almost certainly has to happen because GW has set them up as the main population in the Realm of Shadow. I was surprised taht he Aelves got lumped into Cities as one or two lines in the Slaanesh book suggested that The Aelves were being united under a single banner (which would have worked as a light aelf army even if it added in some of the dark ones - then supported by new angelic aleves). So it seems that the Light Army is back on the cards once again as happening. 

 

Of course when is a hard question to answer considering that Ossiarchs appeared from almost nowhere in the story; a few small hints here and there but nothing that really suggested GW was going to give a whole new race and army to the game. So that was a very pleasing if very big surprise (which I think is a little bit why some were a bit "Oh eh what?" when they were announced-  because GW had spent 3-4 years building up to more aelves and then Reapers appeared out of nowhere). 

 

We've even some concept art of the Shadow Aelves in the Big Rule Book 

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7 hours ago, Kirjava13 said:

I think a Psychic Awakening-style event for AoS wouldn't go amiss. A round of smaller updates for every army, either introducing new units for the newer/smaller armies or beautiful new resculpts for older armies, done via dual battle boxes (the availability of which needs to be carefully managed), books and events, before more general releases, and it could fold in the continuing new/rejigged armies AoS will keep seeing.

You might see, I dunno, Corruption of the Sea: Nurgle and Idoneth get the spotlight. Both get a new unit, Nurgle gets some Pestigor and Idoneth get a dude riding a giant crab. Or Shadows In The Forest: the Kurnothi get an army release and get packaged in with new Skaven sculpts for Clan Eshin Gutter Runners and Night Runners (and since I'm already at full mast, why not Death Runners too?).

Basically continue the process of clearing out the metal and resin, whilst also feeding us shiny new things.

Honestly, that Shadows in the Forest box sounds awesome. Can GW hire you, because I also need a Crab riding Aelf in my life. Also, my sister plays nurgle, so I would love to see some pestigors - the Wood Elves and Beastmen have a long rivalry you know.

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3 hours ago, Jymmy said:

I hope that they don’t develop the artillery aspect of Aos. I think that the most prominent thing about fantasy settings is the concept of two armys clashing together. I fear that by giving all the armys artillery we will get into the arms race and turtling that 40k is nowadays. As it is, I think that artillery is too precise (lacks the random component of old fantasy) and it could be too effective agaisnt characters (and is a shame to punish the inclusion of heroes in an epic fantasy setting)

Maybe more like anti-horde artillery? It’s the direction they recently took with the Thundertusk changes.

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Personally I'd like them to focus less on adding new left-field factions but rather add to/flesh out some of the "mini-factions". Fireslayers, KO, IJ or FEC for example. They got very few kits, that doesn't feel like a proper army to me. Other factions desperately need updated kits, like Seraphon, Skaven or CoS (which unfortunately seems to be the red-headed stepkid). I still believe that a proper human/mixed favtion that represents "normal" people is what's needed to give the setting some kind of footing even if things are becoming better.

I expect them to add one more Aelf faction, not sure we'll see new SC that soon but it's a good bet. I don't know how well they sell but they got more kits than a few other armies combined so a sinbgle kit or two would be enough as well. While I get that Aelf players might want something more classical than Fish-Alves or Almost-Nekkid-Aleves, I personally think that a third Aelf faction (fourth if the Beastgrave-guys become a proper faction outside of being added to the Sylvaneth force) isn't exactly what's needed most at the moment, so I'd rather see lots of armies get a kit or two instead. Then again I understand fans of classic Aelves being hella impatient by now. I'd be. I hope they'll find the right balance so that the least amount of fans is unhappy... (not easy) But how big's the market for more Aelves anyways? Lots of people "dislike" aelves so I'm not sure how big the market is for too many Aelf factions (Kurnoti, Idoneth, Morathi's gals, "Light" + "Dark" Aelves? That's a lot...)

Tzeentch, whom I play, should )in theory) get endless spells as the God of Magic and I'd love to see a plastic Curseling and/or Fatemaster but none of those things are terribly important. With a few changes the army would be in an amazing place so no major update is needed. My one wish would be to not need 10 pages of errata with the new BT. 

Edited by MitGas
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I agree with the above suggestion for Psychic Awakening - updating all armies a little bit is healthier for the game than overhauling each in a long chain.

As well - I suspect we'll see some lateral movements within Stormcast Eternals - namely the splintering of a Stormhost into their own Battletome ala Dark Angels/Blood Angels/Space Wolves/etc. It makes sense given the trajectory of focus being heaped upon the golden boys, and GW can't possibly push a unified tome much farther without it being a total soupstorm. If we see a standalone Battletome with exclusive units for say, Hallowed Knights or something, I wouldn't be surprised.

Overall though, I hope we don't get pushed into AoS 3.0 right now, because the game is the healthiest it's ever been. Maybe V2 codexes like Chaos Space Marines got for Legion of Nagash, Nurgle, etc.

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3 hours ago, Asamu said:

We'll probably see a new destruction faction - perhaps a Gitmob/Greenskin hordes combined faction. Yeah, they were squatted for now, but, a combined old-school Orcs and Goblins style faction with a whole new model range might still have potential. Destruction needs more stuff, and the current Orruk Warclans are just the strongest orcs with mostly newer models. What happened to all the other roving bands of weaker greenskins that they wouldn't consider part of their own factions?

Whilst I would be happy to see any of the above ( and get to play with some of my models again ), what I would really love is a new Destruction faction that is not Ogor or Greenskin related, and distinct from Gorkamorka  lore-wise.  A Human faction would be great, or some insectoid race, for example.  I want Destruction to have a bit more diversity.

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yeah probably Battletome supplements for certain armies similar to the Space marine ones, Stormcast probably set stuff next year.

Seraphon are probably get a big release (similar to S2D) since their battletome has been push back the longest.

probably two  big army releases (Kurnothi and a new Destruction army)

it quite possible that biggest highlight for next year is 40K 9th edition though, but I think GW will still release a lot battletome next year because it Profitable

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16 minutes ago, novakai said:

yeah probably Battletome supplements for certain armies similar to the Space marine ones, Stormcast probably set stuff next year.

Seraphon are probably get a big release (similar to S2D) since their battletome has been push back the longest.

probably two  big army releases (Kurnothi and a new Destruction army)

it quite possible that biggest highlight for next year is 40K 9th edition though, but I think GW will still release a lot battletome next year because it Profitable

Do you think KO has any hope of getting a big release? By next year it will be 3 years since launch and 3 years of being one of the worst armies in the game lol. There was a brief period of about a month or two where they were too good but soon over nerfed into oblivion.  I realize Seraphon have been waiting longer and are in more dire of a need of new models but from a rules and existing models perspective they are way better off than us. 

Edited by Barkanaut

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14 minutes ago, novakai said:

(similar to S2D)

This is a much better acronym.  I think I shall use this from now on.  Thank you.

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9 minutes ago, novakai said:

yeah probably Battletome supplements for certain armies similar to the Space marine ones, Stormcast probably set stuff next year.

Seraphon are probably get a big release (similar to S2D) since their battletome has been push back the longest.

probably two  big army releases (Kurnothi and a new Destruction army)

it quite possible that biggest highlight for next year is 40K 9th edition though, but I think GW will still release a lot battletome next year because it Profitable

This is pretty much my take.

Seraphon is an interesting case because I remember there being a lot of low-level rumors around this time a year ago that they were coming until around early summer, when the new rumor was that their release was pushed back. I think it was probably the case that GW had planned a minimal release for them initially and then backtracked and decided to do something larger.  Even though they're a popular army, new Saurus kits would do wonders to make them more appealing.

By contrast Tzeentch/KO don't really need anything except a rules update, so I think we'll get those two books in the first 2-3 months of 2020. I predict that there will be a dual box, either Tzeentch/KO or Tzeentch/Seraphon.

I do think we'll get a new elf army in 2020. It will have been two years since the last elf release, we still have some elfy rumor engines, and we have the Kurnothi in Beastgrave. There's a case to be made for both Kurnothi and Light Aelves, since Teclis got some development in Forbidden Power and the Slaanesh tome, at least compared to Malerion who we still know basically nothing about. Kurnothi of course have Beastgrave and I just suspect they've been in development for a while, since Wanderers have gotten a fair bit of attention over the years compared to the other unsupported elf factions and their underworlds models look like they have a fully developed aesthetic ready to go.  All in all I think Kurnothi will come before Hysh Aelves, but I'm prepared to be wrong.

I also do think we'll get one new Destruction army, probably those sky gobbos. Though Beastgrave does have some interesting lore about an insectoid race we might see some day. 

I think Death is due one more armybook (Soulblight) but not in 2020.

Otherwise, yeah, probably more of a 40K focus compared to this year and an AoS version of their Psychic Awakening campaign with it's rapid fire faction mini-updates.

 

 

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14 minutes ago, Barkanaut said:

Do you think KO has any hope of getting a big release? By next year it will be 3 years since launch and 3 years of being one of the worst armies in the game lol. There was a brief period of about a month or two where they were too good but soon over nerfed into oblivion.  I realize Seraphon have been waiting longer and are in ore dire of a need of new models but from a rules perspective they are way better off than us. 

Honestly IDK I am just a speculator and a normal person

minimum release for KO is probably new tome, terrain, and Endless something (and even that they didn't give them to Warclans, COS, and spells to Ogors)

but going by what GW did with the last 2 codexes (Orks and GSC) in 8th and what they stated with KO in the past, it possible they tend to give new stuff to the book they release last.

My big prediction (based on my bias and hope) is that they are going to release Sky Grot sometime next year and they are going have VS box with KO (like Feast in of Bones) and KO may get a new Hero or something. then their battletome comes out by then and hopefully their rules are good but not Slaaneshi-broken good. any new KO models I hope but I keep my expectations low on that front.

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I'm expecting rules supplements and rounding out existing armies with new armies. I think we'll get small model release waves for armies that got single new characters but not much else this year like Skaven, FEC, Slyvaneth, and Mawtribes. This would also provide an opportunity to rerelease the those new characters outside of the box sets. So maybe something like plastic skyre acylotes to be released alongside the bombardier and FEC could get the Arch-regent and clam packs for the other courtiers. 

Mawtribes could get plastic Butchers and Maneaters. Seriously, give us a plastic Butcher/Slaughtermaster kit please!

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I'm hoping and expecting a new narrative campaign/event that give some new rules that amount to basically new subfactions for that get them(i.e. Legion of Grief in Forbidden power). And maybe use it as an excuse to release new heroes for various faction. I don't think AoS will get something as big and multipart as Psychic Awakening, (especially if the theories and rumors pan out that it's basically the 40k version of End Times and will be followed by a big narrative shakeup and a new edition). What ever AoS gets will probablly be smaller, but still a decently big event that does change some narrative stuff(opening Azyr as a realm that people are fighting over?).

Obviously there's the hope that the rest of the 1st edition battletomes get replaced. Probably see a least one wholly new army next year if not more. Maybe the back half of the year starts seeing 2.0 versions of 2nd edition books. And yes, that would probably include yet another Stormcast book.

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