It's time to mourn. Fimir and Tamurkhan being discontinued

[Nezzhil]

3 hours ago, Bluesummers said:

I guess they are making room for the old world release 😎.

Yeah!!, this happened before when the chaos warriors were removed from the store three years ago... Oh wait...🤷‍♂️

Edited December 2, 2019 by Nezzhil

[Nezzhil]

Another more, Kazyk the Befouled is Sold Out in the US store.

[Nezzhil]

Sayl is Sold Out too.

I think is official that Vanilla Destruction and Tamurkhan are the Sold Out objectives...

 

[EccentricCircle]

It's not looking good. I decided to get a couple of things which I've wanted for a while, including the Dread maw. Just in case I can't later on. I'd have liked to get the dragons, but the magma dragon is just a bit too pricey, and I've missed my chance at getting the warpfire one. 

[Whitehorn]

On 12/1/2019 at 3:52 PM, Nezzhil said:

I think that they decided to retire the molds because the sales were poor or the molds were damages and remade them isn't lucrative.

Poor sales perhaps, but they'd only have to sell a couple of sets to cover the costs of making a new mould. Resin moulds are cheap an cheerful.

[Baron Klatz]

My wish is they'd just rip the band-aid off. Discontinue everything that's not selling or got battletome support and reboot the Monsterous Arcanum  with a Bestiary of the Realms.

Chamon sky krakens, Ghyran ice jotunns and Aqshy jumping lava serpents oh my!

[EccentricCircle]

37 minutes ago, Baron Klatz said:

My wish is they'd just rip the band-aid off. Discontinue everything that's not selling or got battletome support and reboot the Monsterous Arcanum  with a Bestiary of the Realms.

Chamon sky krakens, Ghyran ice jotunns and Aqshy jumping lava serpents oh my!

I have to respectfully disagree. I'd much rather they discontinue stuff slowly over a number of months, that way I have a chance of saving up to get some of it, before its gone for good.

A new Monstrous Arcanum would be great if they do later reboot the line, but for now I'm just hoping they keep some of it around a bit longer.

[Baron Klatz]

That's quite fair.

To me they've just been hanging around for so long when there was so much potential on the AoS table they weren't even tapping into.

So best of luck to you and other last chancers but to me it's out with the old and in with the new all the way!

Edited December 19, 2019 by Baron Klatz

[TheMuphinMan]

kind of wish they did like a kickstarter-ish thing with the less popular molds. People could reserve a spot and once a threshold was reached, they announce a production run, last minute stragglers get a week or so to join then they make/send out the orders and the process resets.

less stress on factories, and they could set like a X months guarentee for some of the more expensive so people aren't putting down, lets say, $610  for a Vorgaroth,  that may or may not come in the next year

Edited December 19, 2019 by TheMuphinMan

[EccentricCircle]

Given that they already do Made to Order, that wouldn't be too hard for them to pull off.

[Kyriakin]

3 hours ago, Baron Klatz said:

So best of luck to you and other last chancers but to me it's out with the old and in with the new all the way!

I can't see how it's an either-or situation.

You have a small number of awesome, but borderline unplayable, sculpts that don't need to be removed to make additional AoS-centric monsters.

When you look at the size of the HH/40K range, those 15-ish moulds can't take up much of their storage space.

Plus, you have the issue of those who were loyal and trusting to FW (not me - I don't have a dog in this fight) getting royally screwed by this. It will hurt customer trust towards Forgeworld going forward.

All gone, just because of a refusal to add some keywords to a PDF. The Mourngul, Sayl, Gork/Mork, Warpknaw and Colossal Squig show that this stuff will sell if you allow it to be taken within an established faction.

Edited December 20, 2019 by Kyriakin

[Baron Klatz]

Interestingly it's not just this stuff because my friend showed me FW have been cleaning out a lot of older sculpts including 40k.

So I can't say if it is just a storage issue but it feels like they're trying to get a better turnover and dropping stuff just not worth the expense to them.

If they could keep this stuff and add more? I'd be more than happy! However if this leads to them doing reboots for better sales (and making future stuff to actually align with GW's battletomes like I hope the rumored Gargant army could) while maybe having Made to Order for this stuff then i'm more than happy with that.

We'll see how this goes.

Edited December 20, 2019 by Baron Klatz

[zilberfrid]

3 hours ago, Kyriakin said:

I can't see how it's an either-or situation.

You have a small number of awesome, but borderline unplayable, sculpts that don't need to be removed to make additional AoS-centric monsters.

When you look at the size of the HH/40K range, those 15-ish moulds can't take up much of their storage space.

Plus, you have the issue of those who were loyal and trusting to FW (not me - I don't have a dog in this fight) getting royally screwed by this. It will hurt customer trust towards Forgeworld going forward.

All gone, just because of a refusal to add some keywords to a PDF. The Mourngul, Sayl, Gork/Mork, Warpknaw and Colossal Squig show that this stuff will sell if you allow it to be taken within an established faction.

Yeah, if you make a game, and have pieces for that game, make sure people can use it when you try to sell it.

5 min per PDF is easily earned back.

[RuneBrush]

4 hours ago, Baron Klatz said:

So I can't say if it is just a storage issue but it feels like they're trying to get a better turnover and dropping stuff just not worth the expense to them.

I've said a couple of times in various posts after speaking to various staff at open days and events, that the people who make the decisions on stopping producing ranges are the people who look at numbers and figures.  From the company I work at, a product range needs to make a certain amount of money each month in order to justify shelf space.  Once it drops below a certain level we want to shift it in order to make way for a new and more profitable product and will stick it into our clearance range.  GW are going to be the same in this respect.

One thing GW are good at though is listening to feedback and requests.  If enough people tell them "I really miss X model/unit" then there's a chance they'll bring it back into production or do a made to order run.  We've seen this happen with the Rogue Idol, it got taken out of production, but after a couple of years enough people have said "please can we have it back" and it's back again.  We've seen it happen to a few of the Heresy models too.

[zilberfrid]

7 minutes ago, RuneBrush said:

I've said a couple of times in various posts after speaking to various staff at open days and events, that the people who make the decisions on stopping producing ranges are the people who look at numbers and figures.  From the company I work at, a product range needs to make a certain amount of money each month in order to justify shelf space.  Once it drops below a certain level we want to shift it in order to make way for a new and more profitable product and will stick it into our clearance range.  GW are going to be the same in this respect.

One thing GW are good at though is listening to feedback and requests.  If enough people tell them "I really miss X model/unit" then there's a chance they'll bring it back into production or do a made to order run.  We've seen this happen with the Rogue Idol, it got taken out of production, but after a couple of years enough people have said "please can we have it back" and it's back again.  We've seen it happen to a few of the Heresy models too.

I do get that numbers are the right level of abstraction to see where improvements need to be made, but the FW issue will not be solved by scrapping sets and making new ones without looking at why they didn't sell.

What has been removed so far (as far as a cursory glance tells me) was either almost impossible to use in an army, or just very unappealing/incomplete. 

Asking FW to put it back, but without a change in warscrolls isn't going to change much.

I may like the models, but if I can't put it in my army, I am not inclined to pay the premium FW sells for.

[Baron Klatz]

Wouldn't surprise me if that's the strategy. They would be far from the only company to let a product fall to the wayside to justify cancelling it and make way for more profitable future ones.

Just now, RuneBrush said:

Once it drops below a certain level we want to shift it in order to make way for a new and more profitable product and will stick it into our clearance range.  GW are going to be the same in this respect.

One thing GW are good at though is listening to feedback and requests.  If enough people tell them "I really miss X model/unit" then there's a chance they'll bring it back into production or do a made to order run. 

Exactly! 

The products here have been sitting around for over a decade. The "don't know what you had until it's gone" syndrome is gonna kick in here.

Either demands go up and they finally get people buying again with an easier to manage Made to Order limited run or the outcry is few and they just move on to new products that catch people's eye.

[SunStorm]

I went through recently and bought a few things that I don't need right now, but I'd feel bad if they took them off sale. I've missed out on things before and especially when i see how much stuff goes for on ebay. Things like the Chaos Mammoth and Incarnates of magic go for crazy money.

As I had part of a chaos dwarf army from back when they came out, I got enough infantry and warmachines to round that out to a full playable force, as well as a few of the monsters like the Dreadmaw that I've always liked, but never had a specific use for. 

On the plus side, FW stuff tends to hold it's value well in the second hand market, so almost can be seen as an investment?

 

 

 

Edited December 20, 2019 by SunStorm

[Eevika]

Imagine if you could take a magma dragon in fyre slayers, Would it sell more than it does now? Most definitely. Now that you cant take it anywhere it probably isnt really selling

[Kyriakin]

14 minutes ago, Baron Klatz said:

Either demands go up and they finally get people buying again with an easier to manage Made to Order limited run or the outcry is few and they just move on to new products that catch people's eye.

How can "demands go up" without them changing their policy of the models not having usable keywords?

I am sure the Dreadmaw, Myrwerm, etc have managed to "catch people's  eye" - as they have mine - but, like me, they are not going to buy something that they cannot use.

Edited December 20, 2019 by Kyriakin

[RuneBrush]

1 hour ago, zilberfrid said:

I may like the models, but if I can't put it in my army, I am not inclined to pay the premium FW sells for.

I think different people look for different things when making a purchase.  I tend to pick up models that I want to paint rather than looking at how they fit into an army - don't get me wrong, if I can fit them into an army then that's brilliant (75% of my knight army is FW), but I generally don't buy something because of it's gaming ability.

I would agree though that I think the fantasy models produced by FW don't/didn't necessarily fit into the AoS particularly well which will have contributed towards poor sales.  I also think that unless they've been designed digitally, a lot of the models can be a complete and utter pain to assemble.  There are a couple of exceptions - when the Gloomspite book came out and the Hag and Rogue Idol are very much valid options for various Destruction armies.

[Overread]

Thing is when the Gloomspite book came out GW showed off a good number of those Gloomspite models. So I'd wager they got an uptake in sales. But they had so many cool models hiding in chaos and destruction and never really ever advertised them. When Orruks came out there wasn't a "Oh and here are all these big wild beasts that you can get to populate your Orruk army" You'd have thought they'd have had several of them ready to show - heck model an ork standing on a dreadmaw and such. 

Even if they weren't goin to let Idoneth take the myrewurm they could have at least showed it off more. Same for the others. 

 

Why weren't they showing off Warpfire dragons every time they released a chaos army? Or all those nurgle beasties (esp since GW actually seems to favour nurgle over others)

[zilberfrid]

1 hour ago, RuneBrush said:

I think different people look for different things when making a purchase.  I tend to pick up models that I want to paint rather than looking at how they fit into an army - don't get me wrong, if I can fit them into an army then that's brilliant (75% of my knight army is FW), but I generally don't buy something because of it's gaming ability.

I would agree though that I think the fantasy models produced by FW don't/didn't necessarily fit into the AoS particularly well which will have contributed towards poor sales.  I also think that unless they've been designed digitally, a lot of the models can be a complete and utter pain to assemble.  There are a couple of exceptions - when the Gloomspite book came out and the Hag and Rogue Idol are very much valid options for various Destruction armies.

Different strokes for different folks, I guess. Even though I don't play much, I want a place for the model in my army. There is so much choice already, I need a bit of a reason to purchase models.

For the models that were at least somewhat relevant, the problem was never them not fitting  aesthetically(Manann's Blades and the Ironsides), the problem for me was that they were incomplete models for a higher price than Greatswords, while not being better sculpts than them (and the Ironsides did not fit the save value of handgunners). Putting a bunch of detailed sword arms and gun arms in them would have made them at least a complete set.

The FW models that do fit in an army seem to do a lot better.

[Baron Klatz]

Just now, Kyriakin said:

How can "demands go up" without them changing their policy of the models not having usable keywords?

I am sure the Dreadmaw, Myrwerm, etc have managed to "catch people's  eye" - as they have mine - but, like me, they are not going to buy something that they cannot use.

They'd definitely go up better if that was the case but there's still demand by those unable to get them and having a GA mixed force, proxying it as another AoS unit or just using it for  narrative play/rpg.

I'm not disagreeing with anyone that they should have better rules, premium products should give you that edge.

So i'm leaning towards them just wanting the products to be unpopular enough to discontinue with little hassle. Hopefully whatever they get replaced with will get more love as "current" products.

 

 

[Overread]

32 minutes ago, Baron Klatz said:

I'm not disagreeing with anyone that they should have better rules, premium products should give you that edge.

There was a view that for a long time, esp for 40K, FW models were just that. You did get an edge with them. Part of this is because FW had superheavies and in 40K until more recently, superheavies required very specific counters to defeat. Counters that really werent' a big part of the core game; so before GW was making baneblades and knights (and even in the early days of releasing them in plastic) some of the FW range were like putting superpowered toys on the table. And people didn't like it.

 

I don't think FW models should be more powerful, but they should be of comparable power to regular GW models. They should just slot into the game without any major change to an army's power curve. Sure they might bring something new to an army, but it shouldn't make them broken. 

 

 

So they should give you a new tool rather than the edge in a battle. 

[Baron Klatz]

That's true, I remember the multiple nerfs the Mourngul had to go through before it was properly balanced.

2015-2016: having two was an auto-win.

2017: not auto-win but one did half the work of your Death army.

2018-2019: great army synergy even before it got battletome inclusion.

Forge World would benefit with having GW's level of community feedback on adjusting their stuff. Though I feel that's not their goal anyhow.

Edited December 20, 2019 by Baron Klatz