General Narrative discussion

[Nacnudllah]

12 hours ago, Beastmaster said:

You’re right, especially for those who want to build their own land, situation and setting, fitting the armies of the people who take part in the campaign, the realms offer a lot more freedom. A blank slate, basically.  I just don’t know how many will be willing / able to put in the extra effort to make their part of the world rich and evocative. May be easier for many to use some part of a more developed background to build on. AoS may get that, but it’s still a long way and, I must say, I don’t see much development in that direction.  Still, the fan-made maps here in the forum are much more specific and interesting than anything GW came up with for at least parts of the Realms. Makes it quite difficult for less experienced world builders to actually get some traction in their sandbox. Which may be another reason why the narrative gaming is still lagging behind. Few people seem to feel at home in the Realms yet, myself included.

I have really been missing the maps that graced the early battletomes.  I wish they would put 1 or 2 maps in every book, because those (to me at least) really spur the imagination.  There's a saying in the storygaming RPG community, "Draw maps, leave blanks".  GW has done a great job leaving blanks, but has been slacking off in the "draw maps" department lately.

[Eldarain]

First report from my narrative campaign:

 

Heinrich Kemmler. A figure of dread from a world long dead had finally regained his strength. Finding himself in lands he could only describe as the eight winds given form it had been a struggle rivalling his wanderings of the Grey Mountains to survive.

Gathering what corpses his weakened sorceries could master he eked out an existence far below what he had become accustomed to. Learning the only reason he existed at all was the towering arrogance and failure of Nagash and his Necroquake kept him warm during those desperate nights.

Now confident in his marshalled strength he moved from his lair in the Ashen Spire to attempt to master the spirits dwelling to the north.

He arrived to find naught but whispering gheists defended the lake. Sending what minions he could spare to defend the approaches he began to chant in languages long dead.

As the ritual gathered strength a strange lightning wreathed bolt slammed into the stake nearest his head! Towering armored giants came rushing through the mists. Their ostentatious armor and ornamentation brought back hateful memories of the Grail worshippers who had constantly plagued his efforts.

Kemmler cursed his luck. With the ritual in progress he would be unable to intervene in this struggle. His minions clawed and dragged at the armored titans. They were badly outmatched but cost the Knights precious time.

Scores of bolts now slammed into the ramshackle platform he found himself in. As the Knights drew closer more and more began finding their mark. Black coagulating blood began dripping from the Lichemaster's wounds.

As the ritual reached it's crescendo the Knight with what appeared to be a portable bolt thrower was struck by a towering bolt of azure lightning. His armor and weapon suffused with energy he took aim at the Lichemaster.

Knowing he could not survive such a strike and maintain the ritual Kemmler made a last desperate gambit. Realizing it was time and not incantations that would see the task complete he reached out and clutched the pauldron of his hulking Wight bodyguard.

As the empowered bolt struck home crumpling his wizened form to the ground he successfully tied the ritual to his minion. The knights who had come so incredibly close to both breaking his convocation and ending his long existence were driven from the lake by the furious gale of spirits now shackled to the great axe wielding champion of death.

This first foray was a dire test of Kemmler's strength. These realms were populated by strange new threats and he would have to be more careful in the future. However he had succeeded and the spirits he gained dominion over were potent indeed. Inspired by these new foes he set to work on his next great work.

(Great game against Matthias. I set a self imposed movement ban on Kemmler to represent his ritual. The mission we generated perfectly captured the narrative as Matthias had to kill Kemmler, Krell and a Wight to win. With Krell the only one left standing the Lichemaster claimed his first territory)

Edited November 19, 2019 by Eldarain

[Moldek]

Great writeup @Eldarain !

I really like the style of writing, very atmospheric yet short and sweet. Seems like a great game too.

[Eldarain]

5 minutes ago, Moldek said:

Great writeup @Eldarain !

I really like the style of writing, very atmospheric yet short and sweet. Seems like a great game too.

Thank you very much. Had a brilliant day of gaming today. Just sat down once home and rattled that off in a stream of consciousness. About 20 mins.

Excited for the next stage of the event. Using this idea as a jumping off point for my Deathcast converted Warband to join the story.

[EMMachine]

@Eldarain

Interesting. I don't know why it has to be "Heinrich Kemmler", a named char of the old world. I mean, what will you do if GW makes a version of Heinrich Kemmler for AoS. After the model is GW property you basicly don't have copyright on the character. Why not your completly own character?

[Moldek]

8 minutes ago, EMMachine said:

@Eldarain

Interesting. I don't know why it has to be "Heinrich Kemmler", a named char of the old world. I mean, what will you do if GW makes a version of Heinrich Kemmler for AoS. After the model is GW property you basicly don't have copyright on the character. Why not your completly own character?

He probably just likes the character and his lore, it’s not a stretch to imagine he could he back in the mortal realms. You don’t need copyright to make your own games and lore as long as you’re not making money from it!

[EMMachine]

10 minutes ago, Moldek said:

He probably just likes the character and his lore, it’s not a stretch to imagine he could he back in the mortal realms. You don’t need copyright to make your own games and lore as long as you’re not making money from it!

It's not about making money of it. The thing is, you are not the owner of the character. I can't write background for "Vandus Hammerhand" for example because it could create conflicts with the official Background of Vandus.

In case of Kemmler we don't know if he will come back to AoS but we know that Characters returned from the old world (Mannfred, Neferata, Arkhan, Gotrek) or that a character is most likely a reborn old world character (Balthasar Gelt is most likely the the Lord Arcanum Baltas Amun).

After the background is quite losely in AoS compared to the old world fanmade background can basicly be as official as the GW made background, so it's importent not to create conflicts with official lore (which will most likely happen when named characters are used outside of official parts of the lore).

[Moldek]

@EMMachine I mean you can absolutely write you own background for vandus hammerhand, even if it conflicts with the official lore, why couldn’t you?

I understand why YOU wouldn’t want to do it if you want to stay « canon », but the whole point of narrative gaming is to make up your own story. You have no obligation to abide by the official lore. Just like running a rpg where established characters interact with your own. 

Edited November 20, 2019 by Moldek

[Eldarain]

7 hours ago, EMMachine said:

@Eldarain

Interesting. I don't know why it has to be "Heinrich Kemmler", a named char of the old world. I mean, what will you do if GW makes a version of Heinrich Kemmler for AoS. After the model is GW property you basicly don't have copyright on the character. Why not your completly own character?

He was the first model I recieved to start my 5th Vampire Counts army. I've always loved his lore.

I'll be incredibly excited if they bring him into the new story with a new model and I'll immediately start a full Death army to celebrate.

It wouldn't bother me any from a creative standpoint as I'm just enjoying myself during this Warcry campaign (cutthroat gaming had been killing my enjoyment)

I have my own City of Sigmar to craft for a more personal creation in the Realms.

Edited November 20, 2019 by Eldarain

[Nacnudllah]

Hey Narrative folks!  I've been running a series of Narrative events that revolve around constructing "Soul Engines" that will be custom terrain pieces (kind of a catch all for anything from a temple to a death laser).  I like to organize my stories into 5 event arcs and I fear I've hit a wall in the storytelling. 

At Event 1 the players explored a stormvault and looted its treasures. 

At Event 2 they battled over a the technologically advanced ruins of an empire in Chamon, gathering parts to combine with the treasures of the vault and the broken Penumbral. 

At Event 3 (in January) the forces of Chaos have blockaded the ports of an Order city and both sides are trying to smuggle parts in to finish a Soul Engine that the people of the city are constructing.

I know that I want the Event 5 to involve players fielding their own custom Soul Engines on the battlefield, but I don't know where to go with Event 4.  Anybody have any ideas?

[Moldek]

7 hours ago, Nacnudllah said:

Hey Narrative folks!  I've been running a series of Narrative events that revolve around constructing "Soul Engines" that will be custom terrain pieces (kind of a catch all for anything from a temple to a death laser).  I like to organize my stories into 5 event arcs and I fear I've hit a wall in the storytelling. 

At Event 1 the players explored a stormvault and looted its treasures. 

At Event 2 they battled over a the technologically advanced ruins of an empire in Chamon, gathering parts to combine with the treasures of the vault and the broken Penumbral. 

At Event 3 (in January) the forces of Chaos have blockaded the ports of an Order city and both sides are trying to smuggle parts in to finish a Soul Engine that the people of the city are constructing.

I know that I want the Event 5 to involve players fielding their own custom Soul Engines on the battlefield, but I don't know where to go with Event 4.  Anybody have any ideas?

Maybe you could have them try to loot a realmstone mine, because they need the stone to power their Engines? Or take down a great beast that has swallowed an ancient artefact that would triple their power? Control key geographic features needed for the ritual that will activate the engine?

I can keep goinf if you want 😅

[Nacnudllah]

1 hour ago, Moldek said:

Maybe you could have them try to loot a realmstone mine, because they need the stone to power their Engines? Or take down a great beast that has swallowed an ancient artefact that would triple their power? Control key geographic features needed for the ritual that will activate the engine?

I can keep goinf if you want 😅

These are awesome ideas!  Thank you

[Eldarain]

My first model for the City of my own creation.

 

[Kramer]

On 12/30/2019 at 2:19 AM, Eldarain said:

My first model for the City of my own creation.

 

Stupid like limitations. You deserve more ‘love it’s’

[Eldarain]

Another centerpiece for Karak Cythral:

Committed to doing the bulk of my units next.

 

[DestructionKev]

On 11/1/2019 at 11:02 PM, EccentricCircle said:

I've got lots of interesting plans, though how many of them I'll actually get to do is another matter.

What I really want to do is a map based narrative campaign, with a strong Kingdom Building element to it. There is a region of wilderness, somewhere adrift in the multiverse, with gates to all eight realms. None of them are very accessible gates, and few people know of them, but if exploited then they could be another all-points. Word is gradually spreading, and factions in all of the adjacent realms are beginning to send out expeditionary forces to establish outposts in the frontier. But these strange new lands are far from uninhabited, and ancient crumbling ruins at their centre suggest that *someone* knew of this place in the dim and distant past.

Effectively every player would control their own little colony, in a game that would be a bit like settlers of Catan with warhammer battles. Scouts would have to be sent out to find locations with useful resources and claim them for the kingdom, by building outposts and forts. These can then be upgraded into larger settlements once more resources are secured, but the different colonies will soon come into conflict along their shared frontiers, and various NPC factions will be randomly encountered on the map as well.

I plan to use a hybrid of the path to glory rules and the points system. Effectively each player will start out with a single path to glory warband, but will be able to gain more troops as they establish more settlements. If all goes well then they should fairly soon have small standing armies garrisoning each of their settlements and outposts. However how many of those troops they send to any given battle will vary. Some games might be small skirmishes between groups of scouts, while others might be larger pitched battles. In that case there will be an element of seeing how well scouts and spies can report on enemy troop movements. Players will effectively have to try to use espionage to find out how many points worth of troops any given general is committing to a theatre, and decide whether they can commit that many troops themselves without leaving a settlement undefended in ork infested hills etc.

I'd ideally like to end up with a mix of big games, skirmish scale games, maybe even play underworlds and warcry from time to time, as small adventuring parties head off to explore the ruins. It will all form part of the unfolding narrative, and each player will have a real attachment to their kingdom (or tribe, or what have you.)

I like the idea that there will be a strong roleplay componant as well, with players sending diplomatic missives back and forth. What happens when your order city is besieged by the undead, and sends out messengers asking for help? Will another player come to their rescue, and what if that happens to be the Chaos player, and their aid is contingent on your kingdom turning to the worship of Tzeentch?

There is so much potential!

Naturally I've yet to be able to persuade anyone I game with to actually play it with me. At this rate I might just do it on my own, with my kingdom pitted against NPC factions, but that would miss out on a lot of the more RP-y parts of the experience.

@EccentricCircle 
pleeease make this happen :)  That sounds extremly awsome! 

[EccentricCircle]

12 hours ago, DestructionKev said:

@EccentricCircle 
pleeease make this happen :)  That sounds extremly awsome! 

I've still not gotten the campaign off the ground, as my gaming group pretty much only plays 40K now. Every time I've shown this to people the response has been "That sounds so cool" but no one is actually willing to play it.

That has not though dissuaded me from keeping going with the project, so I did write up the campaign rules: https://www.dropbox.com/s/23epjcdjdlnk555/Hexenwold%20Campaign%20Guide.pdf?dl=0

It has yet to be playtested, but is otherwise ready to go, and I think it should work ok. I'll be very interested to how you get on if you use any of it.

My plan is to host the map on a Roll20 page, and allow the players to curate and manage their kingdoms through that. We're trying something similar out for our 40K campaign at my suggestion, so how that works may inform how I modify this going forwards.

[Beer & Pretzels Gamer]

Our gaming group started with a narrative campaign.

In the first game three drunken Ogors (a Butcher, a Firebelly, and a Tyrant) had gone on a rampage over who was the better killer, eventually attracting a larger horde (1k points basically) of other Ogors.  The rampage had gotten so bad the Swifthawk Agents were dispatched to stop the mob.  Unbeknownst to them a Gitmob has started following the Ogors, taking advantage of the mayhem they were creating.  Worked for four players, each of whom had specific narrative objectives.

In the second game, following the pyrrhic Swifthawk Agents victory (only the general and a few other units had survived), the Swifthawk Agents had sent out Skycutters to find the remnants.  One ended up crashing in a hidden Sylvaneth Grove that was otherwise surrounded by a forest full of Spiderfang Grots.  As the Grots rushed to destroy the Skycutter the small force of Sylvaneth tried to protect them.  Each turn more units would come onto to battlefield depending on a random roll.

The final game saw the Swifthawk General form an alliance with the Sylvaneth and call in favors he was owed by the Kharadron Overlords to fully eradicate the grot and Ogor presence in the region.   While the other two were roughly 2k pts on each side this one was a big blow off at roughly 8k total points.

Took a bit of work readjusting each scenario to accommodate the outcome of the previous game but small tweaks (like giving a unit of Swordmasters that kept surviving a ‘veteran’ bonus) really got people engaged.  When the Swifthawk General finally died in the big battle he actually got a spontaneous moment of silence the players had gotten so attached...

Edited February 12, 2020 by Beer & Pretzels Gamer

[Beer & Pretzels Gamer]

One reason first narrative cycle worked so well was everyone was still learning the game and thus more willing to play smaller sized armies and partner with another player.  These days those most players want there own roughly 2K sized list and want to control their own destinies.

We did have a successful 4-way dance with Swifthawk protecting a field hospital where Nurgle had detected a new infection it wanted to claim as its own.  In approaching the field hospital though the GUO had to go by an Awakened Wyldwood where he was recognized as someone Drycha wanted revenge on.  Meanwhile an Execution Herd’s migration had brought it into the valley this was all taking place in.  The contrasting objectives of each army made for a compelling game but with that many armies there was often a little too much downtime.

So since then we’ve mainly focused on 1v1 plans that tie together.  For our next narrative cycle we are looking at a territory-based game that would give us a chance to try out a lot of the new battletomes.  The basics would be a Khorne Daemon army and a Khorne Mortal army competing to see who could collect the most skulls for the skull throne.  They’d face off against KO, Gutbusters, BCR, and probably Sylvaneth across a series of matches.  Sets up nice enough for another big 8K blowoff battle.

[Kramer]

On 2/12/2020 at 10:55 PM, Beer & Pretzels Gamer said:

Took a bit of work readjusting each scenario to accommodate the outcome of the previous game but small tweaks (like giving a unit of Swordmasters that kept surviving a ‘veteran’ bonus) really got people engaged.  When the Swifthawk General finally died in the big battle he actually got a spontaneous moment of silence the players had gotten so attached...

that's what it's all about. Those little stories will stick to the model until something new happens. Love it. 

22 hours ago, Beer & Pretzels Gamer said:

One reason first narrative cycle worked so well was everyone was still learning the game and thus more willing to play smaller sized armies and partner with another player.  These days those most players want there own roughly 2K sized list and want to control their own destinies.

 

I recognise the same. But it opens up new avenues as well. We had a great game where a player had to defend a city against a two players. So he made a 2K list, and played on two tables (not at the same time), but he had to divide his army in two parts. He thought a retreating battle against both players, keeping track of the losses. The next game his units replenished if at least one model made it off the table. The final game was a three against one. The two attacking players kept track of their victory points (1 for every unit destroyed). In the final free for all battle there can be. only one winner but it can only be one of the attacking players if the defender is fully out of their own territory. But that has yet to be played!

22 hours ago, Beer & Pretzels Gamer said:

So since then we’ve mainly focused on 1v1 plans that tie together.  For our next narrative cycle we are looking at a territory-based game that would give us a chance to try out a lot of the new battletomes.  The basics would be a Khorne Daemon army and a Khorne Mortal army competing to see who could collect the most skulls for the skull throne.  They’d face off against KO, Gutbusters, BCR, and probably Sylvaneth across a series of matches.  Sets up nice enough for another big 8K blowoff battle.

I like that. allows for a lot of fun. But unless you have a good set off players the 8K battle is more fun in theory than in real life 😂

[Kramer]

Have you beautiful narrative ****** played around with the Ogor Mawpath campaign from the white dwarf? Or the warcry campaigns for that matter. 

I really like the concept of giving the players a separate storyline that's independent of who, and how often they play. 

[michu]

15 minutes ago, Kramer said:

Ogor Mawpath campaign from the white dwarf?

That's one of main reasons why I would like to build an Mawtribes army. They not being a horde army is a second and also important reason.

Edited February 14, 2020 by michu

[Beer & Pretzels Gamer]

2 hours ago, Kramer said:

But unless you have a good set off players the 8K battle is more fun in theory than in real life 😂

Fortunately we’re lucky there.  Two of our key players came over from historical war games where 2v2 is the norm.

But the first time we did I think the key was using the narrative to determine deployment.  In the narrative the Grots were holed up in an old Duardin stronghold in one corner while the Ogors were in a valley on the other side.  Similarly the Sylvaneth were deploying from an Awakened Wyldwood in the middle of a forest on one side of the board (coming down out of the same mountains as the Duardin Stronghold) while the KO were in the more open plain on the other side where their ships had easier flying.  The middle of each side was occupied by some fun pieces the players had requested (Rogue Idol and Colossal Squig on Destruction side which the lead grot character had respectively activated and mastered in the narrative, and a Flamespyre Phoenix and Magmadroth, both more favors called in by the General).  For rounds 1 & 2 then it basically played out as almost two separate games with the advantage that both players on which ever side whose turn it was doing their actions (movement, shooting, combat, etc.) at the same time.  By ro7nd 3 of course everything was mixed up but by then the numbers were down to much more reasonable amounts.  Game was won on the last combat of the last turn when the Sylvaneth finally secured their objective giving Order a 2-1 advantage on that front.

Thinking about that though made me realize how important controlling deployment has been to the success of all our narrative games.  Fortunate to have a gaming group where as long as their is a narrative logic to how the units are initially deployed (or come onto the field in later rounds) there are no complaints.  This seems to do a very good job of preventing some of the issues related to “over powered” units wrecking the dynamic, and we’ve incorporated plenty of them over the last year.

[Kramer]

1 hour ago, michu said:

That's one of main reasons why I would like to build an Mawtribes army. They not being a horde army is a second and also important reason.

It’s really fun. I’m up to three now and actively painting my stormcast so a friend can play them... wellto be honest, it’s so I can add them to my pot as well. So far it’s all KO ingredients.  
 

For those who don’t know. They way it works is the campaign has a set amount of games. Regardless of who you play you gather resources according to your actions in game. At the end you tally the score and that determines if you get a loss or win. Every third game there is a narrative choice that might aid or hurt your efforts. 
You can spend gathered resources for an in game bonus. In return your opponent gets a command point. This means the campaign only requires you. Which makes it so flexible. 

I already have some rough ideas for some of my other factions. KO get a resource depending on what ally they bring. Can be any hero model but unless it’s in the ally list no ability can affect them. If that ally dies you lose resources to compensate your failure. The opponent gets a triumph as they are apparently after the cargo/client and came prepared 

[Kramer]

1 hour ago, Beer & Pretzels Gamer said:

Thinking about that though made me realize how important controlling deployment has been to the success of all our narrative games.  Fortunate to have a gaming group where as long as their is a narrative logic to how the units are initially deployed (or come onto the field in later rounds) there are no complaints.  This seems to do a very good job of preventing some of the issues related to “over powered” units wrecking the dynamic, and we’ve incorporated plenty of them over the last year.

Yeah absolutely. Deployment and objectives. You need to set up right and have a reason to move towards each other.