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How do I beat maggotkin?


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At our local gaming club we have one person who's a great guy, but his nurgle army is consistently laying low most of the players. I've found he tends to run blight kings and tries to buff then whilst having either debuff auras or FNPs on them to make then near indestructible. Once in melee he tends to just mulch anything, and due to buffs his slow units can theoretically charge me turn one. He also runs spells that let him snipe characters out of LOS with mortal wounds that chip away at my support. 

 

Between all of this, I'm in a pickle. I'm playing legions of negash, tomb kings and or night haunt. I've found that If I charge the kings, my units die. If I wait back he just whittles my heroes and charges me regardless. If I try to get to heroes, I struggle to kill them due to toughness. I don't know how I beat them, and it is getting annoying. I need help.

 

The list usually runs a few great unclean ones, rotticus, a chaos shrine, some wizards avd buff heroes, and blight kings. 

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Come on, somebody asks for help. Expresses their frustration of not figuring it themselves and your response is ‘how can you lose’? with more question marks then sentences you deign to write as help?

Hey I play nurgle and can easily beat top tier armies its just that I have 80 plague monks, a Verminlord Corruptor and Plague Furnace doing all the work. 

Hydrogen peroxide and neosporin.... lots of neosporin. 😉😄

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24 minutes ago, Kurrilino said:

I'm confused here. How can you lose against Nurgle ??????

Nagash a necromancer and 2 units of 30 reaper plus seasoning of your choice will rip them apart

How on earth are you getting the allied points for that many grimghasts? They were faq'ed to allies last I remember, or am I being dumb? Akso are they still worth it after the nerf?

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52 minutes ago, Kurrilino said:

I'm confused here. How can you lose against Nurgle ??????

Nagash a necromancer and 2 units of 30 reaper plus seasoning of your choice will rip them apart

Come on, somebody asks for help. Expresses their frustration of not figuring it themselves and your response is ‘how can you lose’? with more question marks then sentences you deign to write as help? Classy. 
 

as to the OP’s question, I have no advice to give. Don’t play any death factions. 

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14 hours ago, Jaxler said:

How on earth are you getting the allied points for that many grimghasts? They were faq'ed to allies last I remember, or am I being dumb? Akso are they still worth it after the nerf?

They weren't. And they are still worth it

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Could you tell us things like:

  • How many points do you run?
  • What size is the table?
  • What terrain is on the table?
  • Do you use Mortal Realms rules, and if yes, which realm do you play?
  • What Nagash units do you have? (I think that's your strongest choice here)
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And now on topic, there is 2 main objectives you need to accomplish to crumble his army:

Kill Harbringer and debuff blightkings.

To kill Harbringer you can use fighty flying units like Morghast, that would be a one-way trip for them, but it's well worth it. Or you can kill him with spells, like 8 arcane bolts from Nagash, Curse of the years from Arkhan, Amaranthine Orb through Spellportal.

To debuff blightkings all you really need to do is cast Overwhelming Dread and they no longer get exploding attacks or blades of putrifaction. On top of that - add geminids to render them completely useless, they can also help killing Harbringer. 

With those 2 done you can proceed to destroying his army - a Purple Sun can be a great addition to your roster since it doesn't care about any of their defensive abilities. And just destroy everything with 40 skelletons buffed with Dance Makabre.

To hinder his advance whille you try to kill HoD - bring dire wolves, they work as a perfect screening units.

Also being a Death player you shouldn't have a problem with MWs sniping your characters, Nagash and Mortarchs have a lot of wounds as does VLoZD which can heal d6, Necromancer can simply shrug wounds to chaff. The only support pieces that can be in danger are Corpse Carts, VLs on foot and Wight Kings and you don't really need them to build a good list.

Is there anything else that troubles you about his list?

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1 hour ago, XReN said:

And now on topic, there is 2 main objectives you need to accomplish to crumble his army:

Kill Harbringer and debuff blightkings.

To kill Harbringer you can use fighty flying units like Morghast, that would be a one-way trip for them, but it's well worth it. Or you can kill him with spells, like 8 arcane bolts from Nagash, Curse of the years from Arkhan, Amaranthine Orb through Spellportal.

To debuff blightkings all you really need to do is cast Overwhelming Dread and they no longer get exploding attacks or blades of putrifaction. On top of that - add geminids to render them completely useless, they can also help killing Harbringer. 

With those 2 done you can proceed to destroying his army - a Purple Sun can be a great addition to your roster since it doesn't care about any of their defensive abilities. And just destroy everything with 40 skelletons buffed with Dance Makabre.

To hinder his advance whille you try to kill HoD - bring dire wolves, they work as a perfect screening units.

Also being a Death player you shouldn't have a problem with MWs sniping your characters, Nagash and Mortarchs have a lot of wounds as does VLoZD which can heal d6, Necromancer can simply shrug wounds to chaff. The only support pieces that can be in danger are Corpse Carts, VLs on foot and Wight Kings and you don't really need them to build a good list.

Is there anything else that troubles you about his list?

I'll add in that with Skeleton/Grimghast blocks you should be able to take and hold objectives quite easily against Blightkings. Nurgle plays an attrition game but is noticeably worse at it then Legions.

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The problem is I dont own nagash. I have 30 hex wraiths, 30 black knights. 30 grimghssts. 120 skeletons. 10 wolves. 4 necromancers, 6 spirit hosts. 40 chain rasps. 2 Mortis engines. I've also got a vampire lord and a vampire lord on dragon. I also own arkhan

 

Should I really get nagash? 

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15 minutes ago, Jaxler said:

The problem is I dont own nagash. I have 30 hex wraiths, 30 black knights. 30 grimghssts. 120 skeletons. 10 wolves. 4 necromancers, 6 spirit hosts. 40 chain rasps. 2 Mortis engines. I've also got a vampire lord and a vampire lord on dragon. I also own arkhan

 

Should I really get nagash? 

You should be able to do it with those units.

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15 minutes ago, Jaxler said:

The problem is I dont own nagash. I have 30 hex wraiths, 30 black knights. 30 grimghssts. 120 skeletons. 10 wolves. 4 necromancers, 6 spirit hosts. 40 chain rasps. 2 Mortis engines. I've also got a vampire lord and a vampire lord on dragon. I also own arkhan

 

Should I really get nagash? 

I dont think Nagash is neccessary when you own Arkhan and a whole lot of skeletons. Most of the stuff works well even without the big bone daddy. 

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No you don’t have to get Nagash.  I am a little concerned on your hammer options.  The Grims and VLoZD are it, the latter you have to be careful with depending on the enemy.  A maxed skeleton unit is a conditional hammer if the wind is in your favor, against Nurgle you have more options to pull it off than against many other armies.

If you bring GHoN all of your summonable units (including the grims) will get a 1/3 chance of self healing.  Going to strongly second XReN on the Morghast advice.  With Spirit Halberds in GHoN two of them are like a scalpel on key targets and four are an axe to the face of a troublesome target.  Just measure out the value of that  point commitment since the counter-punch can get ugly.

How many heroes are you bringing?  Troop numbers are important and the only extra Hero’s you should bring are to cover for once’s you are certain to go down.

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1)  Apply -1's to hit.

2)  Find out who his witherstave character is, kill it.  It'll likely be on the GUO closest to combat.

3)  Find where his harbinger is, kill it.

4)  The rest is just a slog.  If he's bringing Spume to deepstrike, you gotta spread out.  I run my Maggotkin as a 1 drop to give me choice.

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13 minutes ago, Evil Bob said:

No you don’t have to get Nagash.  I am a little concerned on your hammer options.  The Grims and VLoZD are it, the latter you have to be careful with depending on the enemy.  A maxed skeleton unit is a conditional hammer if the wind is in your favor, against Nurgle you have more options to pull it off than against many other armies.

If you bring GHoN all of your summonable units (including the grims) will get a 1/3 chance of self healing.  Going to strongly second XReN on the Morghast advice.  With Spirit Halberds in GHoN two of them are like a scalpel on key targets and four are an axe to the face of a troublesome target.  Just measure out the value of that  point commitment since the counter-punch can get ugly.

How many heroes are you bringing?  Troop numbers are important and the only extra Hero’s you should bring are to cover for once’s you are certain to go down.

I usually bring 2 necros, a vampire lord, and a zombie lord on vampire. 

 

What keeps happening is he deploys first because batallion, decides to go second so can double turn. He then forces me to walk up the board, unable to nerf magic. He then kills my screening wolves with shooting and goes in to charge my skeletons or whatever, exploding 6s them to morale town, wipes them and keeps all my stuff bogged down while rebuffing and setting the wheel to reroll 6s. 

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The Grimghast Reapers + Guardian is a must because you go 4/2/-1/1 and you can repeat failed hits. If you support them with a Necromancer, you can deal a lot of damage. If they get killed, don't worry, resurrect them.

Chainrasps are more durable than Skeleton Warriors. You get the objectives because you have more miniatures than him.  Keep it in your mind!!

Greetings

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2 hours ago, Jaxler said:

exploding 6s them to morale town

Overwhelming dread is key to render kings useless... fading vigor with the d6 charge can also be mean, if he tries superfast nurgle bell things.

if you go GHoN also think about making a Necromancer general with the -1 to hit within 3“ on 4+, and the -1 to wound artifact, or the diadem 6+++. Then put him in second rank of your main skellis...

If he runs the -1 rend cyst, you might as well go for a .60cal Zombers mob with corpse cart, 2+\3+ with van hels and vampire ca...brutal statistics.

sad option is of course, that he might just be the better tactician  and it‘s not your list... 😿

then you’ll just have to try different strategies, find out what works and what moves spell desaster and go from there...

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5 minutes ago, Honk said:

Overwhelming dread is key to render kings useless... fading vigor with the d6 charge can also be mean, if he tries superfast nurgle bell things.

if you go GHoN also think about making a Necromancer general with the -1 to hit within 3“ on 4+, and the -1 to wound artifact, or the diadem 6+++. Then put him in second rank of your main skellis...

If he runs the -1 rend cyst, you might as well go for a .60cal Zombers mob with corpse cart, 2+\3+ with van hels and vampire ca...brutal statistics.

sad option is of course, that he might just be the better tactician  and it‘s not your list... 😿

then you’ll just have to try different strategies, find out what works and what moves spell desaster and go from there...

I think my problem is I've been trying to use black knights or hex wraiths and other stuff when a unit of skelies or grimghasts and minuses to hit do the job better. 

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Id Run Arkhan with the lords of Sacrament, then 30 grimghasts, 2x40 skellies, 5 direwolves and the soul snare shackles

Spell wise you probably want fading vigour, overwhelming dread and decripfy.  you'll have more then enough bodies to secure objectives and tar pit his units, and the grimghasts can kill.  Scenario dependant you could probably win without killing much 

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2 hours ago, Jaxler said:

I think my problem is I've been trying to use black knights or hex wraiths and other stuff when a unit of skelies or grimghasts and minuses to hit do the job better. 

About four editions or so of this game I loved Black Knights.  Mounted Wights were excellent cavalry back then.  Now they play more like some skeleton variant.  You also only get one shot for them to do something impressive on the charge.  Nurgle is pretty decent at taking a charge.   Unless there is a strategy that is paying off I’d ditch them in favor of more rank and file.


In my forces Hex Wraiths as an objective grabbing skirmishers.  Normally saving the points and doing the same job with Direwolves which are more disposable albeit less tanky. 

5 hours ago, Jaxler said:

I usually bring 2 necros, a vampire lord, and a zombie lord on vampire. 

What keeps happening is he deploys first because batallion, decides to go second so can double turn. He then forces me to walk up the board, unable to nerf magic. He then kills my screening wolves with shooting and goes in to charge my skeletons or whatever, exploding 6s them to morale town, wipes them and keeps all my stuff bogged down while rebuffing and setting the wheel to reroll 6s. 

In an objective game you don’t have to rush his forces.  Play the objective game, you don’t need them all.  Just enough to keep a lead or the score even.  There might be times to be aggressive but that would be for when the risk is right to ****** a few VP.  Most death armies are about regen and setting the fight to our pace.  We don’t have the crazy charges like BCR or Eel Force.  Our elites can’t get as choppy as SCE or GG.

  • Try using the direwolves more for opportunistic objective grabbers.  Any screening they should be doing is to stop deepstrike or board turn-one-chargers.  If he is playing where you can’t swipe objectives then the puppies are a point drag.
  • Minimal Chainerasps for a cheap screen (10 to 20) or a large blob (20 to 40) for an important objective holder
  • Axe all of your Black Knights and Hex Wraiths unless you can distinctly recall how they seriously shifted the battle.  If they had an interaction with an enemy unit how many points you paid verses his.  There are people who make those units work but in general they are under-performers.
  • With the shifts in meta I don’t like skeletons anymore but you are actually fighting an enemy they can work against.  Most of Nurgke’s units do not slay hordes well.  Don’t hesitate to bring them in groups of 40.
  • Try a more infantry horde like force and then evaluate the value of the second necromancer and/or vampire lord.

In a worst case scenario bring the mercenary cannon.

Your Gravesite Markers have three majorly important jobs

  1. Returning your slain maximum sized unit of Grimghasts.  Sometimes it is better to let a unit battle shock out and use the CP to reposition them.  Although that hasn’t happened with my Grimghasts.
  2. Supporting units at the important home territory objective or midpoint objectives
  3. Deploying summonable units on midpoint objectives.

I like to group them by two’s or all four for castling.  Often between two objectives to provide overlap coverage.  I rarely put one out alone somewhere.  In those rare cases it involves my VLoZD general trying to pull a maxed skeleton unit(s) out where they’d never march out to in a practical manner.


Lord only know how much garbage is being left out but I’m really tired.  Good hunting Jaxler.

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10 hours ago, Jaxler said:

I usually bring 2 necros, a vampire lord, and a zombie lord on vampire. 

 

What keeps happening is he deploys first because batallion, decides to go second so can double turn. He then forces me to walk up the board, unable to nerf magic. He then kills my screening wolves with shooting and goes in to charge my skeletons or whatever, exploding 6s them to morale town, wipes them and keeps all my stuff bogged down while rebuffing and setting the wheel to reroll 6s. 

That sounds alright, the thing is: you can reach his frontline with gemenids even if you're forced to go first, if he than wins the roll-of and choses to go again - his blightkings are being at -1 to hit for whole 2 battle rounds and that means they fight with pillows

You can also pull the ultimate winning move if you give your VLoZD Gildenbane  - an artefact from Chamon that will disable his Witherstave and throw him into the fray. If you go Legion of Blood and make him the general - even better. Give him command trait to make everyone -1 to hit him in combat phase, so even if geminids fail you can still survive going toe to toe with his heroes.

You should also be able to unbind his spells from time to time and if you really feel like shutting down his magic - take a Corpse Cart with blazer

You can also block his advance or make him waste casts by dumping endless spells on the table, like pallisade, shackles etc.

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9 hours ago, Jaxler said:

I think my problem is I've been trying to use black knights or hex wraiths and other stuff when a unit of skelies or grimghasts and minuses to hit do the job better. 

No, please do not think those thoughts... the real problem is, that Gdubs is not really consistent with their points and some poor units are left in the dirt of the Meta because of it.

never had luck with black knights, they are wet single layered toilet paper, same goes for hexwraith. But maybe I‘m just doing it wrong (ianob‘s deathmarch supercharge).

played LoB with 2x10 Bloodknights against a friend who showed me how I could play undead with 2x20 reapers... yes, that’s a thing, but I don’t want to field bedsheets, no matter how bad they destroyed my Bloodknights...

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