How do I beat maggotkin?

[hughwyeth]

On 10/30/2019 at 8:28 PM, Jaxler said:

At our local gaming club we have one person who's a great guy, but his nurgle army is consistently laying low most of the players. I've found he tends to run blight kings and tries to buff then whilst having either debuff auras or FNPs on them to make then near indestructible. Once in melee he tends to just mulch anything, and due to buffs his slow units can theoretically charge me turn one. He also runs spells that let him snipe characters out of LOS with mortal wounds that chip away at my support. 

Between all of this, I'm in a pickle. I'm playing legions of negash, tomb kings and or night haunt. I've found that If I charge the kings, my units die. If I wait back he just whittles my heroes and charges me regardless. If I try to get to heroes, I struggle to kill them due to toughness. I don't know how I beat them, and it is getting annoying. I need help.

The list usually runs a few great unclean ones, rotticus, a chaos shrine, some wizards avd buff heroes, and blight kings. 

As  a Nurgle player who has moved on to other armies because I find them too difficult to win games with, maybe i can help? anything -1 to hit will turn off blightkings as their exploding hits activate on a "6+", not "unmodified roll of 6" as such abilities are usually phrased for all newer battletomes. You should have a few -1 to hit spells I think with legions?

Nurgle have no casting/unbinding bonuses save for a GUO with bileblade and an artefact, and their most powerful spells are mortal ones which have no access to casting bonuses at all- should mean they're easy to dispel?

So here's a sort of gameplan -

The Blightkings' FNP is from a Harbinger of Decay- kill that off as a priority with ranged spells.
Cast -1 to hits on Blightkings/the units they will be targeting. If successul you can pretty much ignore them as a damage dealing unit.
If he's playing with plaguebearers- they're resilient but have no damage output, so tag them in combat as far away from objectives as you can and leave them to slowly whittle down your unit. You don't need to remove them from the table, just keep them away from objectives!

With your list building- take a hero (Arkhan) with cast/dispel bonuses to shut down the ranged mortal wound output- it is Nurgle's biggest strength and can do enough damage over two turns to remove all of your 5-7 wound heroes.  Take minus to hit spells to shut down blightkings. And even better, take a battalion to outdrop him to prevent that turn 1 sprint across the board that nurgle can do with the +3" move GUO and run/charge combo. 

As always- priorities are important- you don't need to kill the GUO- they're mediocre spellcasters with little or no bonus to cast and zero close combat damage output. (Funny saying this, I remember when the updated warscroll came out, there was outrage that they could cast 2 spells for their cost!). You should prioritise dispelling, not killing the GUOs/Rotigus . You will need to kill the Warshrine (probably giving a 6+ FNP?) and the Harbinger of Decay (GIving a 5+ FNP) as a priority and engage the blightkings only when they have a -1 to hit activated. 

[peasant]

59 minutes ago, hughwyeth said:

As  a Nurgle player who has moved on to other armies because I find them too difficult to win games with, maybe i can help? anything -1 to hit will turn off blightkings as their exploding hits activate on a "6+", not "unmodified roll of 6" as such abilities are usually phrased for all newer battletomes. You should have a few -1 to hit spells I think with legions?

Nurgle have no casting/unbinding bonuses save for a GUO with bileblade and an artefact, and their most powerful spells are mortal ones which have no access to casting bonuses at all- should mean they're easy to dispel?

So here's a sort of gameplan -

The Blightkings' FNP is from a Harbinger of Decay- kill that off as a priority with ranged spells.
Cast -1 to hits on Blightkings/the units they will be targeting. If successul you can pretty much ignore them as a damage dealing unit.
If he's playing with plaguebearers- they're resilient but have no damage output, so tag them in combat as far away from objectives as you can and leave them to slowly whittle down your unit. You don't need to remove them from the table, just keep them away from objectives!

With your list building- take a hero (Arkhan) with cast/dispel bonuses to shut down the ranged mortal wound output- it is Nurgle's biggest strength and can do enough damage over two turns to remove all of your 5-7 wound heroes.  Take minus to hit spells to shut down blightkings. And even better, take a battalion to outdrop him to prevent that turn 1 sprint across the board that nurgle can do with the +3" move GUO and run/charge combo. 

As always- priorities are important- you don't need to kill the GUO- they're mediocre spellcasters with little or no bonus to cast and zero close combat damage output. (Funny saying this, I remember when the updated warscroll came out, there was outrage that they could cast 2 spells for their cost!). You should prioritise dispelling, not killing the GUOs/Rotigus . You will need to kill the Warshrine (probably giving a 6+ FNP?) and the Harbinger of Decay (GIving a 5+ FNP) as a priority and engage the blightkings only when they have a -1 to hit activated. 

Nurgle IS in horrible shape now. Probably the worst 2nd edition book. 

[hughwyeth]

42 minutes ago, peasant said:

Nurgle IS in horrible shape now. Probably the worst 2nd edition book. 

Easy fixes-

1-20% point cost reduction across the board.
2-Make Blades of putrefaction/BK exploding attacks on "natural roll of a 6" instead of 6+
3-Make GUOs the spellcasting baddasses they should be and give them some bonus to cast. They're literal manifestations of Nurgle himself, they should be able to beat most wizards and be able to cast their spells in the game. I know it's a tired point, but compare to any verminlord and they're way, way, way overcosted. They do zero combat damage, they're pure buff pieces, but they're huge points for spells which cast half the time IF the opponent doesn't try to dispel. In the current meta, you're getting 1/5 spells off if you're lucky.

Having said that, 3x GUO thricefold is great as long as you're not playing Nagash or similar top level casters.

[peasant]

16 minutes ago, hughwyeth said:

Easy fixes-

1-20% point cost reduction across the board.
2-Make Blades of putrefaction/BK exploding attacks on "natural roll of a 6" instead of 6+
3-Make GUOs the spellcasting baddasses they should be and give them some bonus to cast. They're literal manifestations of Nurgle himself, they should be able to beat most wizards and be able to cast their spells in the game. I know it's a tired point, but compare to any verminlord and they're way, way, way overcosted. They do zero combat damage, they're pure buff pieces, but they're huge points for spells which cast half the time IF the opponent doesn't try to dispel. In the current meta, you're getting 1/5 spells off if you're lucky.

Having said that, 3x GUO thricefold is great as long as you're not playing Nagash or similar top level casters.

And you are talking about our best units... The case of heralds, bloab, pusgoyles etc is saddening

[Eevika]

3 hours ago, peasant said:

Nurgle IS in horrible shape now. Probably the worst 2nd edition book. 

Hey I play nurgle and can easily beat top tier armies its just that I have 80 plague monks, a Verminlord Corruptor and Plague Furnace doing all the work. 

[Honk]

4 hours ago, ACBelMutie said:

FAQs says Mourngul can't ally Legions of Nagash, doesn't it? 

Greetings 

Well, he did and I wasn’t learned enough on the topic of allying... 😓 

[Honk]

Double

Edited November 1, 2019 by Honk

[Honk]

 Triple

Edited November 1, 2019 by Honk

[peasant]

2 hours ago, Eevika said:

Hey I play nurgle and can easily beat top tier armies its just that I have 80 plague monks, a Verminlord Corruptor and Plague Furnace doing all the work. 

But for me thats not nurgle anymore. 

[hughwyeth]

3 hours ago, Eevika said:

Hey I play nurgle and can easily beat top tier armies its just that I have 80 plague monks, a Verminlord Corruptor and Plague Furnace doing all the work. 

Let's differentiate between maggotkin and "Nurgle", which for pestilens is really a technicality!

[Eevika]

1 minute ago, hughwyeth said:

Let's differentiate between maggotkin and "Nurgle", which for pestilens is really a technicality!

I use the maggotkin battletome

[hughwyeth]

10 minutes ago, Eevika said:

I use the maggotkin battletome

As in you use the allegiance? No one is saying that skaven is underpowered! We're saying maggotkin units are!

Edited November 1, 2019 by hughwyeth

[Eevika]

Just now, hughwyeth said:

As in you use the allegiance? No one is saying that skaven is underpowered! We're saying maggotkin units are!

Hey Glottkin is a fantastic buff for monks and plague bearers a great screening unit.

[peasant]

I said is the worst BOOK with that intention. Ofc plague monks are awesome but come on we collect maggotkin for putrids, pusgoyles, Beasts of nurgle, GUOs ... And are quite underwhelming

Edited November 1, 2019 by peasant

[Battlefury]

My personal advice for NH:

1. Focus the habringer and get rid off him asap
2. ignore the Blightkings as long as possible combatwise ( try to debuff them, then go in for them )
3. Don't waste damage dealing spells on the Blightkings
4. Be aware, that even Nagash can not cast 8 arcane bolts ( as each spell cna only be used once per tunr afaik )
5. You can camp the trees to prevent him from getting his summon points ( you will get damage then, but it's only D3 and you can park a cheap unit with your ghostly save after save next to those, or bring your models back with spells )
6. use your maneuvering for your benefit ( he might run & charge you sometimes )
7. use your generic ability of NH from the allegiance you have, where you can remove a unit from the field and place it wholly within 12" of your general, an 9" away from enemy units ( so you can pick him in fights and then just leave the combat ), it counts as movement

8. Don't let people discourage you by saying "how can you lose against him?????[...]". Our meta is entirely ruled by Tzeentch atm, that nobody wins against. Local metas drastically differ from the international stats, never forget that

[Honk]

2 hours ago, Battlefury said:

Our meta is entirely ruled by Tzeentch atm, that nobody wins against.

Vhaaaat??? How can anybody loose to that trash???

you‘re a disgrace!!! Quit playing asap...

[Jaxler]

On 11/1/2019 at 5:26 AM, ACBelMutie said:

FAQs says Mourngul can't ally Legions of Nagash, doesn't it? 

Greetings 

That changed a believe since they can ally nighthaunt now after the new book for nighthaunt happened. I believe this is a case of new publications contradicting, so we go with the newer publication.

[ACBelMutie]

4 hours ago, Jaxler said:

That changed a believe since they can ally nighthaunt now after the new book for nighthaunt happened. I believe this is a case of new publications contradicting, so we go with the newer publication.

Q: Can a Mourngul be taken in a Legions of Nagash army?A: No. It can be taken in Death and Nighthaunt armies, and as an ally by a Soulblight army.

Link: https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/age_of_sigmar_legions_of_nagash_designers_commentary_en.pdf

Greetings

[Battlefury]

11 hours ago, Honk said:

Vhaaaat??? How can anybody loose to that trash???

you‘re a disgrace!!! Quit playing asap...

Good thing you name is already "Honk"...

[Saxon]

On 11/1/2019 at 5:24 AM, Jaxler said:

The problem is I dont own nagash. I have 30 hex wraiths, 30 black knights. 30 grimghssts. 120 skeletons. 10 wolves. 4 necromancers, 6 spirit hosts. 40 chain rasps. 2 Mortis engines. I've also got a vampire lord and a vampire lord on dragon. I also own arkhan

 

Should I really get nagash? 

Cavalry is absolute garbage, probably minimise how much you use. 

I've started using spirit hosts and they're great at camping objectives and dishing mortal wounds. 

Edited November 4, 2019 by Saxon

[Honk]

18 hours ago, Saxon said:

Cavalry is absolute garbage

QFT with extra tears...

ianob had a decent deathmarch blackknights list, but kinda „professionals only“ (superbuff and precision charge or get wrecked)...

against maggotkin, debuff and outgrind. Loved my .60cal zombie mob with corpsecart, vamp and necromancer... they just beltgrinded through his units, shrugged off casualties and kept coming back.

[Saxon]

9 minutes ago, Honk said:

QFT with extra tears...

ianob had a decent deathmarch blackknights list, but kinda „professionals only“ (superbuff and precision charge or get wrecked)...

against maggotkin, debuff and outgrind. Loved my .60cal zombie mob with corpsecart, vamp and necromancer... they just beltgrinded through his units, shrugged off casualties and kept coming back.

Tears? No i just haven't ever seen cavalry do anything other than be fast and their lack of punch just doesn't fit the logic or narrative of cavalry. Black knights are one of the worst offenders for being under powered. +1 to wound on the charge only..... underwhelming. 

I've seen some pig heavy IJ lists that work magic but they're not friendly lists. 

[Honk]

19 hours ago, Saxon said:

Tears

Well, I also tried me some chivalry and it broke my heart to see them just crumble...

that’s why there are extra tears involved... maybe the obr get some, but LoN , might as well spam dogs

[Evil Bob]

Worry not Saxon & Honk.  Surely GW will raise the point costs on Direwolves again to encourage Black Knight use as an alternative.

[Saxon]

9 hours ago, Evil Bob said:

Worry not Saxon & Honk.  Surely GW will raise the point costs on Direwolves again to encourage Black Knight use as an alternative.

Doesn't bother me I traded my terrible GLoN army for Sylvaneth. I am currently building a NH army to keep a death faction.