AoS Apocalypse Scale?

[Arkanaut Admiral]

This is something I’ve been pondering ever since the latest version of Apocalypse dropped.  It’s a great set of rules imo, and I’m wondering if they could be adapted for AoS?

I think the advantages speak for themselves; it would give us the option to play truly massive games within a realistic time frame (For example, I’ve got about 5k of overlords when you factor in battalions.  No way I’ll ever get to use all of it in one go lol) and possibly, dare I say it, achieve better balance?  Oh, it could also be a way to reintroduce rank and file movement for those who miss it.

I’ve heard some people express their doubts though.  Some say that AoS doesn’t have any units ‘titanic’ enough to justify such a scale.  However I take their opinions with a pinch of salt because some of these people also seem to have a massive hate on for AoS in general so...perhaps they’re biased lol.

What do you guys think?  Would this be something you’d be interested in?  I’ve been experimenting with some rules and I think it could work.

[Overread]

I think the reason we don't have "AoS apoc" right now is for a few factors

1) Apoc works on the grand scale; which means lots of models. Whilst AoS has had a lot of Old World fans come back, there was a big dead period. So a lot of AoS armies are still smaller. As a result GW already prices things somewhat higher in points in comparison to 40K. You can sort of see this if you compare Demon armies from the two games, with 40K armies typically able to put far more models onto the table for the same points value. 

So GW is artificially keeping the model count, whilst still high, at a lower value than their other game. This also works easily with AoS because, unlike 40K, it hasn't got as many unit divisions and specific counters. You have troops, leaders, artillery and behemoths with none of them really "countering" the other. Meanwhile 40K has heavy support, fliers, fast attack, troops, leaders, artillery etc... with some having specific hard counters that you have to factor in. This has reduced a bit in the recent edition (in earlier editions dedicated flying units and super heavies had very specific counters that if you didn't have you couldn't deal with, or were in a very uphill struggle to deal with). 

So I think part of the reason is that GW doesn't feel that AoS community at large is ready for Apoc. 

 

2) AoS is still not all on 2.0. Yep until it is releasing a major expansion like an Apoc scale system wouldn't make as much sense. Better to have the whole game up and running properly and then give people the option to take things to the bigger scale of battle. 

 

3) As for the comment on the lack of "super heavies" this isn't really true. AoS has multiple options, however the balance is such that they are not in the same league. Nagash is powerful but he's 800 or 900 points and he's not untouchable. An Apoc system for AoS could actually adjust the rules (like they did for 40K) to make the God units and such more powerful in battle relative to the game. 

About the only real lacking is that AoS has very little super-heavy support from Forgeworld. There's a few models (Ancient for Seraphon and chaos dragon etc...) but by and large many armies don't have super-big monster models. However that's really a lesser issue that might simply stem some of the pressure on GW to support an Apco but doesn't stop it. Many gamers play Apoc without titans (they have knights of course) and warlord titans and phantom knights for eldar etc... But they do have the option to buy them and add them to the game and the Apoc system feeds into supporting that niche. 

 

[Panzer]

To be honest, I think AoS has such a low model count compared to 40k for the most part that it's perfectly fine to just play games at a higher points level. Want huge epic encounters? Play at 5k points instead of 2k. 40k is at a point where it has become so bloated with cheap-ish elite infantry and huge Lord of War type units that simply increasing the points was no longer a good way to represent Apocalypse style encounters.

[Jamopower]

Isn't the Apocalypse version of AoS called Warhammer Fantasy Battles?

[nuttyknatty]

Interestingly me and five other club mates are playing an all day 48,000pts (8,000pts per player - 24,000pts per side) this very Sunday!

The Gathering of Might rules in GHB 2018 are designed for these huge type battles (there are rules that modify each phase, some Legendary Artefacts, spells and other gubbins all designed for Apocolypse style gaming in the realms) and there's two (all be it simple) Battleplans in there too.

I'll report back on whether it was successful next week!

 

[XReN]

Such grand battles are amazing, we have a yearly local event which involves playing it - last year it was 48 000 points with 2 6k points armies from each GA, Order and Destruction against Chaos and Death.

And in this battle Kharadrons actually did increadibly well shooting down everything that get's close, that was what won the battle for Order+Destr. team.

 

[Overread]

@The Nameless One Take photos!! Sounds like it will be an epic battle!

[nuttyknatty]

Sadly one of our Generals has had to drop out so we've been forced to postpone util the new year!

But I'll come back and resurrect this post with photos certainly!