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Why and If Age of Sigmar Is In A Great Spot Right Now


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I originally found AoS to be a huge downgrade to Warhammer fantasy, as a setting and game. In the start there was just all this completely wacko fluff about Sigmar having a space dragon friend, talking about their feelings for thousands of years and then making the realms and for some reason remaking chaos as well, to then be stuck in endless war with them for no apparent reason. Then we had all the imaginary horse rules and other nonsense for old models, which to many was just insult to injury.

I only really got into AoS last summer, as I stuck to 40k for a long while. Now I only really care about AoS so that is telling. The original nonsense fluff is still there, but now I can better view it as our real world mythology, which is the same nonsense, but if you think of the age of myth stuff as being what is told at campfires of the common people, it creates some value to it. 

The new fluff is much better and even though I am normally the "knights in armor" kind of guy, I currently have much more interest in Nagash, and all stories about the realm of death in general are super interesting I think, the soul wars story included, despite being perhaps a bit formulaic. Nagash is just a great character and the pantheon bickering and fights are great, and how these characters interact is fun in all stories.

I weep for the loss of the old world, and somehow wish it was still its own thing. All games being released like total war, vermintide etc in the old world is a bit like parading a corpse around at this point, but I digress.  Fantasy is now an old lost friend, but AoS is a new friend, and it has a lot of new interesting things to offer. I like how GW just goes crazy with the designs and I bet they are having tons of fun coming up with all these new factions. We are playing a game with flying war turtles and eels, dwarfs on fire or flying in steampunk airships and delusional ghouls thinking they are noble knights, all great fun.

AoS has grown so much and still has plenty of room for growth, they made their sandbox setting and are playing their hearts out and everything feels much more fresh than 40k, despite some positive developments in that game as well.

Both AoS and 40k to an extent are plagued by a big problem though, the fear of squatting or becoming obsolete. I lost interest in my imperial 40k armies with the down the the primaris, great models and all, but my old marines and grey knights etc were just right for the bin, people said otherwise back then, but to this day this still holds true. AoS has it even worse, with the mix of "old world" stuff and new models/factions. Perhaps the price of creativity, but making "safe" purchases are difficult, as we have even seen a shift from AoS 1.0 factions to AoS 2.0 factions.

My armies are Seraphon, nighthaunt and Ironjawz, currently waiting for my boxes of bonereapers. I have little faith in the support for my Seraphon, they are hardly mentioned in any stories at all, not present in any of the other games in the AoS setting and have a bunch of outdated sculpts. I currently do not wish to invest in them, before I get any 2.0 tome news, and who knows what they might squat, perhaps all the resin models? I thought Ironjawz, being models made for AoS were sure to get great support, but they suffered for a long while and the new book, while having some power, seems like an afterthought with no terrain or spells, no new models or boxes or anything, still hardly a handful of heroes to chose from and 3 units, thats it, so disappointing.

If they can clean it up a bit more concerning their supported main factions, keep the fluff moving forward and just trim a bit of the top balance wise of the current meta sweepers, then the game would be from great to incredible.

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I think Seraphon's early lore hobbled them story wise because the greater part of the faction were just summoned souls used for one battle then sent back to the ether. Only the mysterious Slaan were "alive" and persistent and they are a little like Tyranids (only not as extreme) in that their lore works best by not showing and telling everything and keeping much in mystery around them. 

Model wise don't forget last years christmas Seraphon battlebox (keeping in mind Seraphon only have a very early battletome) sold out I think about the fastest of all of them. Unless GW seriously understocked them I think that they are a very popular faction (heck who doesn't like dinosaurs?). I figure their update will be a bit like skaven - perhaps not adding much if anything, but not removing much if anything either. I think they are a solid safe faction.

 

Also we've seen GW steadily starting to introduce the idea of Seraphon settling and living in teh Realms and I think the new Tome will explore that and flesh them out. I think we'll see them start to become a race, with characters and stories and identity once more. 

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I think after the squatting of so much of the old range some of which doesn't make sense. Multiple mentions of cannons throughout the cities of sigmar no cannon model to be found though. I just cannot trust that any faction is safe

And even if they are 'SAFE' you have no idea how long you will wait for an update or any sort of support. Kharadron overlords have languished for nearly two years with nothing in the time since release they have revived no new lore. The novel they had came out the same time they did. No new rules except a nerf and the only model release was the shades pure warband. This could be the fate of the ossiarchs if they sell badly. There so much risk now. 

 

We have lost too much. 

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@Icegoat you're about a year and a half behind. KO are getting a new novel very soon a sequel to one of their previous ones. Meanwhile they are only one of 3 armies yet to get an AoS 2.0 Battletome. Since 2.0 Landed GW has steadily updated all the armies with new 2.0 Battletomes. With the rumour showing that there's Slaves to Darkness in December (which also likely clears up Everchosen as well as both are on the same store page); that means we enter 2020 with only KO, Seraphon and Tzeentch to update. Which if GW keeps going as they have done for the last year and half means end of March should see the whole game running 2.0. KO are also brand new and all in plastic, they are exceptionally unlikely to lose anything, even if they might not gain anything beyond spells/terrain/rules. 

 

Granted we did lose Greenskins (I sort of predicted that we'd lose some orks because at that time we had 3 ork armies all with the same rough model structure and concepts) which was a surprise only in how fast and unwarned it happened. The Cities of Sigmar losses were also extreme, though part of me thinks that things such as the high elf removals were done partly to pave the way for the "new" light aelves that GW has teased us about for ages (I'm honestly surprised that Ossiarchs can before either the light or dark aelves appeared). 

As for wiating for updates, its important to realise that in the past you could wait half a decade or more and you might get an update or you might miss a whole edition. AoS 2.0 is insanely fast by traditional GW standards (same as the current 40K is). 

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Well, I'd like to state my opinion relating to the state of the game in combination with the business, that is behind it ad how that influences the game.

But that's maybe really just my opinion.

1. Armies are getting kicked out, because:
a) they don't sell good ( because there's no support in the most cases there )
b) GW is too lazy to flesh out the existing factions with good rule sets ( because of point c )
c) they wanna sell new stuff in the first place

2. No official information about future releases:
a) because that way GW doesn't owe anyone anything ( necause of point b )
b) I know from a store manager, that GW rushes out new releases to sell stuff and just straight up stomps them if they don't sell as expected
c) therefore GW can orient their release shedule via the sells, that where made ( yeah, bla bla, it's a company to gain money and so on... )

3. No information about products, that will get out of books / production:
a) well, GW wants you to buy into several products, not just i that one you already got

4. Battletome dilemma:
a) they release just that fast, because they promised to, and don't want to ****** that lot of people
b) some of the books are not great ( and that's true, it is not just my opinion ), because yet you need support to stay in the hobby, but then just point c ) they wanna sell you new stuff ( no interest in supporting old stuff for so long productwise, or ruleswise )
c) constant edition changes, to have people buy anew into their army, with the new fancy balanced units, that where not great before that edition

5. power creep intended:
a) buy that army, if you wanna be good...

Yes I know, people will argue that GW is a company, that's to sell stuff and make profit, like every other company does. I get that, but the way that's taken is not the way to go and have a consistent monay source.
It feels like they want to squeeze out, what is to be squeezed from he existing player base, to make their profit. Of course it would be more wise to make the price model much more welcoming for new players and people on small budgets, but that's not happening.

How is the game now influenced by that ( from my personal local observation )

a) no new players coming in for like 6 months now
b) players getting out of the hobby, because their armies got dunked totally and don't want to pay again that much money for a new army ( wich might then again be abandoned... )
c) continously lack of interest in playing the game outside any events, that I create for my locals
d) people constantly moving to other systems, that provide a long term balance state and granted supported products ( of course granted, as long as the company exists )

We should aknowledge, that in several areas the player abse is already fluctuating, because of the reasons from above.
That, at least for me, raises the questions about the game, and that shall be my personal opinion about the state of the game:

How long will it be around?
How long will my community be in the game?
Will my army stay and be supported?
How will I purchase my models and where?

We got power creep, unconsistent releases and no information about the future state of any of our products, that makes for me a straight 4/10.

And for those being defensive for GW right now, the game is great, no question!

That's why I am so worried about the stuff, that I mentioned, I want it to stay and become even more great.

Edit:

Forgot something:

Game itself: 8/10 ( we got a power creep, that haunts my local meta, being Slaanesh, FEC and Skaven )
Overall impression uncluding concerns mentioned: 4/10 ( we need massively more consitency )
Faction support: 6,5/10 ( armies should never be kicked out of the game )
Balance between the factions: 6/10
Balance within a single faction: 7/10

Overall prediction for the future if nothing would change: 6/10 ( fluctuating player base )






 

 

Edited by Battlefury
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7 hours ago, Icegoat said:

e. Multiple mentions of cannons throughout the cities of sigmar no cannon model to be found though

Funnier example is the Skaven book. It contains pictures of the actual model that they scrapped with the release of Skaventide 😂 (couple of months later they used the same picture again on the community site) 

Page 3: that’s a poisoned eind globadier 😂
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885D5606-6C63-4BFE-ADA1-2BACA09B7045.png.2b4f1eca670286b12817d099e2145ad4.png

 

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On 10/30/2019 at 11:05 PM, Kramer said:

Funnier example is the Skaven book. It contains pictures of the actual model that they scrapped with the release of Skaventide 😂 (couple of months later they used the same picture again on the community site) 

Page 3: that’s a poisoned eind globadier 😂
 

 

Yeah, GW is know for their great and very thoughtful marketing strategies XD

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Is AoS in a great place? Well, after this evening I've thought about this  differently...

As a predominantly Chaos player, a Slaves to Darkness battletome is something I've been looking forward to more than any other Chaos battletome, for the lore and the rules.

When the new tome was announced this evening I knew immediately that I would be pre ordering this.

That soured the moment I saw the new sculpt for the Lord of Chaos.

Sure , he looks great but he's not mounted on a manticore. And after all the Squatting of models recently such as the Skaven wind globe team, and mass culling of Order units in CoS I immediately panicked that the £32 I spent on my manticore-riding lord over the summer was pointless.

I know this doesn't automatically mean he will be Squatted, but GW have recent form in this area, often without any obvious reasons.

And even if he doesn't get Squatted, by extension this worry means I dont trust Games Workshop with my hobby.

And it's an expensive hobby. So why would I buy another model if there's no guarantee of GW supporting it even for the immediate future?

Do I trust GW with my purchases past and present?

I'm not sure that I do. And until I am sure, I've decided not to buy anything further from them. At least for the next few months or so.

AoS might be going in the right direction, but you get the feeling there are callous hands steering this ship, without much care for the passengers. I hope I'm wrong. In the last 2 years I've invested much time and money in this hobby for it to sour.

 

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@McthewTotally agree.

What I am concerned about with future releases are 2 things:

a) the release manner of releasing 2 faction boxes with at least one limited* model in it ( I absolutely hate that! )

We, again, saw the feast of bones box being out of stock within hours and the models landing on ebay for ridiculous prices. Since ebayers do earn enough money to take more than 20 boxes per ebay shop, those releases are just straight up cursed to fail for the individual players. Pre ordering might help sometimes, but even that's not a guarantee, sicne the releases are time zone dependend.

b) the squatting of models within new books

I mean, why would anyone do that? Seems just that GW is lazy to rework all of the models / units.

c) the prices of the new models

Since when is it ok to pay 50€ for 10 Blood Warriors? And as I suspect, it will be the same with the Chaos Warriors. The price politics is just straight up sh*t and disgusting.

*limited in eternity:
These models are mostly a very important part to make an army viable ( bombardier, arch revenant, arch regent, tyrant ) and we will never know if, and when they are being released individually. Even today we are missing units from the very first 2 starter faction box of AoS, wich is the Lord Relictor, The Bloodstoker, Khorgorath and the Bloodsecrator. I know we can get those from ebay, bt that shall not be the way to go for GW tbh.

 

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35 minutes ago, Battlefury said:

These models are mostly a very important part to make an army viable ( bombardier, arch revenant, arch regent, tyrant ) and we will never know if, and when they are being released individually. Even today we are missing units from the very first 2 starter faction box of AoS, wich is the Lord Relictor, The Bloodstoker, Khorgorath and the Bloodsecrator. I know we can get those from ebay, bt that shall not be the way to go for GW tbh.

It shouldn't be that way, I agree. And I know there'll be dissenting voices saying "Games Workshop have always been that way and are still going strong."

Well, the Titanic springs to mind. (And no, GW haven't always been that way - perhaps since the 90s sure).

It's clear from the forum that Games Workshop are on a warning from some converts to Age of Sigmar: Cities of Sigmar squatting, the constant price increases, strange rules (and some may say, power-creep, though still not sure about this), all build up to chip away at the faith in a business that is outwardly with the hobbyists but is acting not in their interests at all.

The Games Workshop phenomenon the media talk about focuses on GW's success from opening more stores to making more profits when much of the entertainment industry is in recession, including retail. It's success is due mainly to its incredible models and the faith of the hobbyists, as well as longevity due to improved lore and good game mechanics (still think it's one of the best systems out there - but it's at risk of bloat due to Bonereapers 'new' rules).

That faith is being sorely tested again. And loyalty is something every business needs when a country is going into recession. Let's hope they don't "ass"ume otherwise - I'd prefer a stronger GW than one that will tank like so many other games makers recently.

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To be fair, they had an impressive output of tomes and models this year. Impossible to please everyone at once if you’re, like they did, rebuilding a ship while at sea. Some people waited a long time for their tome, others still wait for new models (Skaven spring to mind). But, all in all, we had a hell of a ride this year. I am quite confident that the remaining holes will get plugged in the months to come. 😊

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Seriously, I have been following this forum for a year now. And I sometimes do not get the negativity here. For example, Slaanesh comes out, people waited for it for years, breathtaking model line, all are hyped; literally minutes later, the whining begins again: Kharadron/Slaves/Ogors/younameit get nothing again? GW hates me!“ Same with cities, gloomspite, Ossiarch and, now, Slaves.

Wtf? Of course not everything gets updated at once, how should that be possible? And no matter how often they surprise us with something great and new and long-awaited and shiny, people act as if that would be the last thing they ever did and all other armies are completely forgotten. They aren't.

And when (not if) some form of light/high elves come out next year, I am sure that within minutes people will be like „Why not goblins on airships??“. Well, because you have to start somewhere. Duh.

Edited by Beastmaster
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17 minutes ago, Beastmaster said:

Seriously, I have been following this forum for a year now. And I sometimes do not get the negativity here. For example, Slaanesh comes out, people waited for it for years, breathtaking model line, all are hyped; literally minutes later, the whining begins again: Kharadron/Slaves/Ogors/younameit get nothing again? GW hates me!“ Same with cities, gloomspite, Ossiarch and, now, Slaves.


[...]

I get what you mean and you're right. But here shall be a "BUT" in the sentence:

The issue occures from the Hard Reboot, wich was Age of Sigmar. Befoer that hard reboot there where armies, that did funczion ( in a more or less baöanced way ) but every army had it's books and rules.
When the roboot came, there was plane nothing, not even point values and players where supposed to throw together whatever they where please. What we see now is the consequence of a not very well made reboot. In 40k it kind of worked better, since they just reworked the basic rulesm but maintained the existing army books.

The gap, that appeared after WHVF's reboot is still there today, resulting in missing army books & their rules, not fleshed out base rules ( to some degree ) and power cvreeps, that are not even funny anymore. The power creep only appears, because GW everytime has new ideas of mechanics, that they wanna implement in new books, but that's not how it works.

If a game is being hard rebooted, the designer has to nominate mechanics, that shall be taken in all over the armies ( sure, not all armies would have 100% the same ), wich would be concidered to be balanced and then go for the existing armies and make those books, so that ALL armies have their rules anew.

After that, an edition 2 could be launched with upcoming new books, new mechanics and new factions, but GW wants to do it all in one, wich does not work great as we see, at least imo.

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