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HollowHills

Ossiarch Bonereapers, hideously overpowered?

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Man, I want to try my Legion of Azgorh against the OBRs now.  They have lots of shooting and mortal wounds to throw out at range.   I won't have to worry about Arkhan, evil dwarf magic kinda stinks already 😜

 

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11 hours ago, Lord Krungharr said:

Man, I want to try my Legion of Azgorh against the OBRs now.  They have lots of shooting and mortal wounds to throw out at range.   I won't have to worry about Arkhan, evil dwarf magic kinda stinks already 😜

 

Nagash's new toys will just hide behind that enormous bone citadel thingy thats coming - Kitbash Nagash's answer to the chaos dreadhold

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12 hours ago, Kaleb Daark said:

Nagash's new toys will just hide behind that enormous bone citadel thingy thats coming - Kitbash Nagash's answer to the chaos dreadhold

They're getting more terrain?!

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3 minutes ago, Lord Krungharr said:

They're getting more terrain?!

There was that video recently from the last big show.

at the end is that massive dreadhold sized bone citadel thingamybob :)

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1 minute ago, Kaleb Daark said:

There was that video recently from the last big show.

at the end is that massive dreadhold sized bone citadel thingamybob :)

It's been confirmed several times that it was purely made by the studio team for the display of the army in photos. It's not a terrain feature nor is the wall. However GW have said that there's been such interest in it that "who knows it might oneday" be the kind of thing they could make. Which if that's the case now would be a year or more out before we'd see it. 

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Just now, Overread said:

It's been confirmed several times that it was purely made by the studio team for the display of the army in photos. It's not a terrain feature nor is the wall. However GW have said that there's been such interest in it that "who knows it might oneday" be the kind of thing they could make. Which if that's the case now would be a year or more out before we'd see it. 

So true, yet we’ve often seen stuff hidden in plain sight before.

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34 minutes ago, Overread said:

It's been confirmed several times that it was purely made by the studio team for the display of the army in photos. It's not a terrain feature nor is the wall. However GW have said that there's been such interest in it that "who knows it might oneday" be the kind of thing they could make. Which if that's the case now would be a year or more out before we'd see it. 

GW only said - in a typical GW way - on Facebook that the "terrain in the video was kitbashed".

I mean, obviously the tower and the hills / stone piles with some trees are kit bashed. 

But it's also obvious, because of the painting, the details, and the regularity between the pieces, that the walls and the skull gate are a plastic kit. 

It should come with the rumored Siege supplement - Bone Fortresses are even referenced in the Cities of Sigmar book...

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11 minutes ago, HorticulusTGA said:

But it's also obvious, because of the painting, the details, and the regularity between the pieces, that the walls and the skull gate are a plastic kit. 

It could be plastic, but it's not necessarily obviously so. There are other casting technologies that can be used to create uniform copies.

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GW is using digital sculpting now so chances are they've got at least one really high end 3D printer either in house or with access to one. They could easily cast up that terrain using a 3D printer during some downtime when it wasn't needed for master sculpts. 

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9 hours ago, Kaleb Daark said:

So true, yet we’ve often seen stuff hidden in plain sight before.

Less hidden in plain sight and more that they realised there's a demand so they are going to supply. It's easy money for them but still needs to get properly designed and produced. ;)

 

8 hours ago, HorticulusTGA said:

But it's also obvious, because of the painting, the details, and the regularity between the pieces, that the walls and the skull gate are a plastic kit. 

People have 3D printers these days, you know. It's perfectly viable for someone to produce terrain of that quality on their own. 

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9 hours ago, HorticulusTGA said:

GW only said - in a typical GW way - on Facebook that the "terrain in the video was kitbashed".

I mean, obviously the tower and the hills / stone piles with some trees are kit bashed. 

But it's also obvious, because of the painting, the details, and the regularity between the pieces, that the walls and the skull gate are a plastic kit. 

It should come with the rumored Siege supplement - Bone Fortresses are even referenced in the Cities of Sigmar book...

that's my thoughts.

This will come out as a boxed set I'm telling ya.

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1 hour ago, Panzer said:

Less hidden in plain sight and more that they realised there's a demand so they are going to supply. It's easy money for them but still needs to get properly designed and produced. ;)

 

People have 3D printers these days, you know. It's perfectly viable for someone to produce terrain of that quality on their own. 

Me : *Is their a way to acquire this... technology ?*

GW : *Not from a Jedi". 

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Is there an answer to the title of this subject now ?

I mean, games have been played, maybe some people bring Ossiarch-Bonereapers to tournaments.
Are they so strong ? What about their power in Petrifex ? And in other legions or without one ?

I bought the army before reading the battletome because i liked the models, but i wonder if this a fun army to play against for my friends...

 

Sorry not a native speaker.

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11 minutes ago, Edoval said:

Is there an answer to the title of this subject now ?

I mean, games have been played, maybe some people bring Ossiarch-Bonereapers to tournaments.
Are they so strong ? What about their power in Petrifex ? And in other legions or without one ?

I bought the army before reading the battletome because i liked the models, but i wonder if this a fun army to play against for my friends...

 

Sorry not a native speaker.

The answer is no, they're not hilariously overpowered. They're pretty good, along the lines of most recent tomes like Mawtribes, Orruks, Cities of Sigmar.

Bonereapers have multiple ways to build a competitive list a well as plenty of options for a more friendly approach, so I wouldn't worry about it too much. 

 

Currently Slaanesh is the only real outlier in terms of power, maybe Skaven is up there too but with the FAQ supposedly  bringing them down a bit we're in for a pretty fair environment. Assuming they don't mess up the next couple of tomes.

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1 hour ago, Sedraxis said:

The answer is no, they're not hilariously overpowered. They're pretty good, along the lines of most recent tomes like Mawtribes, Orruks

Orruks are the O Tier, I am rather certain they‘ll soon be Slaanesh 2 ^^

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2 hours ago, Sedraxis said:

The answer is no, they're not hilariously overpowered. They're pretty good, along the lines of most recent tomes like Mawtribes, Orruks, Cities of Sigmar.

Bonereapers have multiple ways to build a competitive list a well as plenty of options for a more friendly approach, so I wouldn't worry about it too much. 

 

Currently Slaanesh is the only real outlier in terms of power, maybe Skaven is up there too but with the FAQ supposedly  bringing them down a bit we're in for a pretty fair environment. Assuming they don't mess up the next couple of tomes.

You're out of your mind if you think they're in the same bracket as Mawtribes.  PE is the most insane thing I've ever played against in wargaming. 

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On 11/22/2019 at 2:05 AM, Overread said:

GW is using digital sculpting now so chances are they've got at least one really high end 3D printer either in house or with access to one. They could easily cast up that terrain using a 3D printer during some downtime when it wasn't needed for master sculpts. 

True but looking back through all AOS scenery they have custom made so far. With no exceptions made all of their pieces from various Battletomes are made up of kitbashed known kits (realmgates, a ton of citadel woods, Arcane Ruins, etc. ). 

Even the stuff they build to showcase at warhammer world is ‘mostly’ made from existing kits. 

Then all of a sudden this deathfortress shows up not containing a single known bit. In fact they already showcased the scenery in the Ossiarch Bonereapers art teasers (Tithe videoes).

I have herd the FB team claim that the castle is custom made, but I do not believe them one bit. Not to call them out as liars but they have been known to be wrong times before.

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Is the army overpowered? At the end of the day yes, because while it might not be depending on build the way it will generally be used will result in an overpowered army.

This boils down mostly to two things: the petrifax elite subfaction, and the functionality of the gothizzar harvester's ability. The former is straight-forward OP, granting the whole army +1 to saves, access to an excellent command ability and trait, for the 'cost' of a merely good artifact. The harvester is an issue because unlike all other resurrection mechanics in the game it happens immediately. This means that the common counter-play of wiping a unit out before slain models can be returned to it is eliminated as an option. It becomes a list check; can the opponent bring means to snipe a 10-wound, 4+ save, healing monster? If not, they have no answer to it beyond hoping the ossiarch player screws up.

However, outside those two things the problem elements are few and relatively mild, so an errata could theoretically deal with the army's main imbalances.

A larger issue is of how many elements of the Ossiarch army are designed such that they are unfun to play against. Stuff like that is extremely unhealthy for the game, as it both erodes the current player base and poisons the opinions of potential recruits, should it be encountered.

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No idea what an OBR competitive list would be like, but here's what I got:

Allegiance: Ossiarch Bonereapers
- Legion: Petrifex Elite

Leaders
Arkhan the Black, Mortarch of Sacrament (360)
- General
Mortisan Boneshaper (130)
Mortisan Boneshaper (130)

Battleline
20 x Mortek Guard (260)
- Nadirite Spear and Shield
- 3x Soulcleaver Greatblades
20 x Mortek Guard (260)
- Nadirite Spear and Shield
- 2x Soulcleaver Greatblades

Units
3 x Immortis Guard (200)
3 x Immortis Guard (200)

Behemoths
Gothizzar Harvester (200)
Gothizzar Harvester (200)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Bone-tithe Shrieker (30)

Total: 1970 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 105
 

Posted without artefacts or command traits because I don't know what's good.

Edited by MKsmash
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1 hour ago, MKsmash said:

No idea what an OBR competitive list would be like, but here's what I got:

Allegiance: Ossiarch Bonereapers
- Legion: Petrifex Elite

Leaders
Arkhan the Black, Mortarch of Sacrament (360)
- General
Mortisan Boneshaper (130)
Mortisan Boneshaper (130)

Battleline
20 x Mortek Guard (260)
- Nadirite Spear and Shield
- 3x Soulcleaver Greatblades
20 x Mortek Guard (260)
- Nadirite Spear and Shield
- 2x Soulcleaver Greatblades

Units
3 x Immortis Guard (200)
3 x Immortis Guard (200)

Behemoths
Gothizzar Harvester (200)
Gothizzar Harvester (200)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Bone-tithe Shrieker (30)

Total: 1970 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 105
 

Posted without artefacts or command traits because I don't know what's good.

Seems pretty solid once you get in position, but how will you reach the objectives before your opponent blocks you? 9 drops is too much for first turn and with roughly 4-7 RD per battle-round there aren't a lot of buffs to go around.

I'm having trouble building a reliable list without giving up some of the goodies, leaning towards 2 battalions to keep the drops low.

I'm really curious to see more lists, especially those that can show how OP the army supposedly is cuz I really don't see the issue.

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Well the bonereapers were on the honest Wargamer stream of Krigsluntan tournament twice. A fairly typical list beat disciples of Tzeentch in a fairly close game, and then a Nagash list got well beaten by Ironjaws. In the same tournament a Mawtribes army with lots of gluttons won their first 4 games. 

The bonereapers definitely look good, but they are not Slaanesh tier. 

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2 hours ago, Chikout said:

Well the bonereapers were on the honest Wargamer stream of Krigsluntan tournament twice. A fairly typical list beat disciples of Tzeentch in a fairly close game, and then a Nagash list got well beaten by Ironjaws. In the same tournament a Mawtribes army with lots of gluttons won their first 4 games. 

The bonereapers definitely look good, but they are not Slaanesh tier. 

I don't think OB can out perform HoS mostly because they don't have the number of players. But also the field is way more competitive then when HoS dropped. 

In fact our current set of stats should probably end this month and start a new season after the holidays.

Edited by whispersofblood

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2 hours ago, Sedraxis said:

Seems pretty solid once you get in position, but how will you reach the objectives before your opponent blocks you? 9 drops is too much for first turn and with roughly 4-7 RD per battle-round there aren't a lot of buffs to go around.

I'm having trouble building a reliable list without giving up some of the goodies, leaning towards 2 battalions to keep the drops low.

I'm really curious to see more lists, especially those that can show how OP the army supposedly is cuz I really don't see the issue.

The issue I had in my game vs them as Maw Tribes is they were invincible and killed anything that touched them. 

More specifically, he had a blob of 40 Mortek guard with a Harvester that moved forward onto one of my objectives (4 in the game) and screened a good portion of the board. I had no way of getting to the Harvester and thus no way of damaging the unit as a 3+, 3+, 6++, 4++ and rezzing 3 models in his hero phase rendered it immortal. 

His objectives were guarded each by a 10 man unit of Mortek Guard. Moved my FloSH against one but could never kill it and the Mortek guard eventually killed the Frost Lord. I did manage to score some points though thanks to the Frost Lord counting as 10 models and killing 1 or 2 Mortek Guard per turn.

Against the other objective I sent 4 Leadbelchers and a Tyrant and was eventually able to take it after 3 turns thanks to a lucky roll on my Tyrants' Hammer. He then died to the Mortek Crawler though that was mostly due to horrible dice rolling on my part. 

I dont think the whole bonereapers battletome is broken but Petrifix Elite Mortek Guard especially with strong magical support (Arkhan) and Harvesters are an absolute Nightmare for some battletomes to face and bring new meaning to "Negative Play Experience". 

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1 hour ago, Forrix said:

The issue I had in my game vs them as Maw Tribes is they were invincible and killed anything that touched them. 

More specifically, he had a blob of 40 Mortek guard with a Harvester that moved forward onto one of my objectives (4 in the game) and screened a good portion of the board. I had no way of getting to the Harvester and thus no way of damaging the unit as a 3+, 3+, 6++, 4++ and rezzing 3 models in his hero phase rendered it immortal. 

His objectives were guarded each by a 10 man unit of Mortek Guard. Moved my FloSH against one but could never kill it and the Mortek guard eventually killed the Frost Lord. I did manage to score some points though thanks to the Frost Lord counting as 10 models and killing 1 or 2 Mortek Guard per turn.

Against the other objective I sent 4 Leadbelchers and a Tyrant and was eventually able to take it after 3 turns thanks to a lucky roll on my Tyrants' Hammer. He then died to the Mortek Crawler though that was mostly due to horrible dice rolling on my part. 

I dont think the whole bonereapers battletome is broken but Petrifix Elite Mortek Guard especially with strong magical support (Arkhan) and Harvesters are an absolute Nightmare for some battletomes to face and bring new meaning to "Negative Play Experience". 

Highlights the importance of maneuver, and the power of fly and alternative deployment.

Such an army is designed to dominate the board by making putting a line you can't move through. One of the interesting affects of having so many factions is that sometimes people's armies are just good at certain operational schemes accidentally. 

In this case OB dominate the board such an oppressive manner accidentally that even the strongest factions have to take account of it. 

2 months ago no one would have thought that a properly constructed Keeper would struggle to dominate the board (spacing wise) against at least 5 factions.

Got to say I love this game. 

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50 minutes ago, whispersofblood said:

Highlights the importance of maneuver, and the power of fly and alternative deployment.

Such an army is designed to dominate the board by making putting a line you can't move through. One of the interesting affects of having so many factions is that sometimes people's armies are just good at certain operational schemes accidentally. 

In this case OB dominate the board such an oppressive manner accidentally that even the strongest factions have to take account of it. 

2 months ago no one would have thought that a properly constructed Keeper would struggle to dominate the board (spacing wise) against at least 5 factions.

Got to say I love this game. 

Gotta say I hate this to the point I'm thinking of quitting.  Maneuvering doesnt matter when their 130 point battle line beats your 400 point tricked out killing machine let alone any chaff or objective runners.

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