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HollowHills

Ossiarch Bonereapers, hideously overpowered?

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8 hours ago, Gecktron said:

Something like this: 

Crematorians

Leaders
Arkhan the Black, Mortarch of Sacrament (360)
Mortisan Soulmason (140)
Arch-Kavalos Zandtos (220)

Battleline
5 x Kavalos Deathriders (180)
- Nadirite Blade and Shield
20 x Mortek Guard (260)
- Nadirite Blade and Shield
20 x Mortek Guard (260)
- Nadirite Blade and Shield
10 x Mortek Guard (130)
- Nadirite Blade and Shield

Behemoths
Gothizzar Harvester (200)
Gothizzar Harvester (200)

Total: 1950 / 2000
Wounds: 108
 

Almost the list I'm going to build. Probably a bit stronger. Now I'm worried. :D

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8 hours ago, Gecktron said:

Something like this: 

Crematorians

Leaders
Arkhan the Black, Mortarch of Sacrament (360)
Mortisan Soulmason (140)
Arch-Kavalos Zandtos (220)

Battleline
5 x Kavalos Deathriders (180)
- Nadirite Blade and Shield
20 x Mortek Guard (260)
- Nadirite Blade and Shield
20 x Mortek Guard (260)
- Nadirite Blade and Shield
10 x Mortek Guard (130)
- Nadirite Blade and Shield

Behemoths
Gothizzar Harvester (200)
Gothizzar Harvester (200)

Total: 1950 / 2000
Wounds: 108
 

I played this exact list this weekend against a 2k Ogres list.

it was very fun to play (even with spontaneous outrageous comments from my opponent how ridiculously overpowered new armies are, but he always complains and it is not meant in a negative way 😀). we played knives to the heart (1 objective each player, whoever's is holding both from round 3 onwards wins).

the Ogor player had lots of ogors and iron guts, 6 of the leadbelchers, a scrap launcher, a iron blaster, a butcher and the tyrant, and 3 yheetis (who did nothing except dying against the riders^^)

in the first round (he started) he killed only a few guards (his leadbelchers were -1 to hit from my nexus), so everything was healed back. I just moved a bit forward, trying to let him charge to keep my guards in range for my harvester healing).

in the second round, he got some lucky shots and killed my first harvester with his shooting (the iron blaster dealing 6dmg on his d6 weapon), so the first blob of guards died in the first wave of iron guts due to not being able to resurrect (they dealt 3mw on explosions).

I then moved up to him, getting a double turn and locking his iron guts with the 2nd block of 20 hoards, now with harvester support. the ironguts killed 21 skeletons (8 popping back due to the harvester) who exploded to 6mw. did not do so many wounds, but survived for a while. he then got lucky on a charge with his normal ogors, and 2 (!) of them were able to kill my 2nd harvester with lucky rolls. had then a lucky moment with Arkhan rolling 24mw with his curse against his iron gut unit  (the last one survived with 1wound due to rolling a 1), however it was just a uphill battle from this point for me, being tabled in round 5.

it was very fun, ogors being a good counter for the OBR, dealing mw on a charge and having tons of wounds.

I watched through the game how it would have been with petrifex, then my harvester would have survived much longer and it would have been played out differently. however, the army feels vulnerable against ranged weapons and mw, so a skilled and adaptable opponent won't have to much issues against them.

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16 minutes ago, PJetski said:

The errata removes Harvester stacking, huzzah

Same for deathriders and that’s really fine.

+vokmortian came from awful to ok choice. 

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Faq fixed all the issues we had worried about. Harvesters, cavalry and vokmortian being unable to cast spells. Great job by GW

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On 11/17/2019 at 2:54 PM, whispersofblood said:

....People seem to not have caught on that BS and Big Waagh can put out 180 3+/4+/-1 rend shots out for less than 800 pts...

How can they do that?

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2 hours ago, Kaime said:

How can they do that?

Bonesplitters Orruk Arrowboys do 2 attacks each with a bow at 18" 5+ 4+ - 1

They get 3rd attack for unit being 15+ models and they get rend -1 against monsters

So 2 units of 30 will generate 180 shots, or 2 units of 20 in Kunning Rukk battalion that would allow 1 unit to shoot in the hero phase

But I think @whispersofblood got modifiers slightly wrong. To achive 3+ 4+ they need to cast a spell on a double and generate 20 waaagh points. First is random, second is unlikely in the first turn. Maybe he is not aware of Kunning Rukk's restriction on unit sizes.

But they also have a spell that makes unmodified 6s to hit cause 2 hits instead of 1

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3 minutes ago, XReN said:

Bonesplitters Orruk Arrowboys do 2 attacks each with a bow at 18" 5+ 4+ - 1

They get 3rd attack for unit being 15+ models and they get rend -1 against monsters

So 2 units of 30 will generate 180 shots, or 2 units of 20 in Kunning Rukk battalion that would allow 1 unit to shoot in the hero phase

But I think @whispersofblood got modifiers slightly wrong. To achive 3+ 4+ they need to cast a spell on a double and generate 20 waaagh points. First is random, second is unlikely in the first turn. Maybe he is not aware of Kunning Rukk's restriction on unit sizes.

But they also have a spell that makes unmodified 6s to hit cause 2 hits instead of 1

Yeah it was the modifiers that i didn't understand, the big waaagh +'es are only for melee weapons too, so I don't see a way to get to 3+ to hit

 

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Just now, Kaime said:

the big waaagh +'es are only for melee weapons too,

Oh, missed that. Than it's not possible at all (they still hit like truck though)

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The real trick with big waagh is savage boarboyz. Something like 120 attacks on 2s and 2s exploding into 3 hits on 6s. Still super buff and cp reliant. But big waagh in general is nasty 

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Shhhhh..... Don't tell anyone, but there is a key to this army being incredibly strong.

And that key is....

 

 

.....Mercenary Chaos Marauders 

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18 hours ago, whispersofblood said:

Warchanter makes an enemy unit +1 to hit against.

The combo is on the upper end of the buff track. 

If you're talking about the warbeat, that's only for melee weapons too, not shooting.

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Had yesterday my first two 1k games against OBR with my BCR. Both against Petrifex. In the first game I stomped him quite easily, in the second the game was a fair fight the OBR won due to better positioning (also, terrain was in their favor).

Petrifex felt like a solid rule, making the army really durable. I did almost all mentionable damage on charge and not in fights as thoose 3+ rerollable saves were really not an easy nut to knack. Also the "ignore the first wound of the phase" rule of the general was quite an mvp, giving him something equivalent to 3-4 Wounds per game on his kavalos rider thingy general. Nevertheless his unit melted against MW´s. It is also worth mention that he had a lot of good save rolls during the game, while my ogors had their troubles with their 4+ to hit...

What felt more insane to me was the immense rend the whole army had access to. For me it felt like anything in his army had a -1 rend or better. Stalkers managed a -3 and simply tore a thundertusk apart like nothing. This is something I really have to get used to.

What I have also not expected: The army is fast. Damn fast. He crossed the half board with ease during the first game. I tought their downside was slow movement but nope. Also the huge pool of CP per turn and quite awesome Command Abilities, together with the hekatros rule to always be in CP range, altogether made me a bit envious (maybe because BCR lack even a simple hit reroll :'D)

Nevertheless I belive Khorne may be quite an anti-pick against OBR, providing revenge fights for bloodtithe and tons of mortal wounds to splash around. I do not know about competetive meta but in my casual meta I belive OBR to be a strong but not broken army. I only wish gw would have spread a bit more love to other books. Subfactions and Suballigiences, which only benefit a certain part of an army always feel like unneccessary limitating, compared to newer books "all units get X and Y".

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3 hours ago, Kaime said:

If you're talking about the warbeat, that's only for melee weapons too, not shooting.

Was thinking Killabeat but your are correct.

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2 hours ago, Charleston said:

Had yesterday my first two 1k games against OBR with my BCR. Both against Petrifex. In the first game I stomped him quite easily, in the second the game was a fair fight the OBR won due to better positioning (also, terrain was in their favor).

It's almost like solid tactics, good play, and experience might matter ...

 

Nah. You got lucky. Bonereapers are OP.

 

Right?

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30 minutes ago, Sleboda said:

It's almost like solid tactics, good play, and experience might matter ...

 

Nah. You got lucky. Bonereapers are OP.

 

Right?

I am not sure if you are trolling or what else you try to express here. My whole post had the point to share my experience from the first games against them. Nothing was said about the faction beeing OP or unfair or that I was only winning due to luck. Thus it seems unfair to me to imply that I would flame the faction for beeing bad~

Actually, each game was decided on exactly what you posted:

Spoiler

Tactics and good play, as in the first game my opponent spreaf out thin which allowed me to focus his hammer down with the charge bonus, while the second game he played with his motreks as screen which made it hard for me to repeat the tactic and the objective game forced me to charge his anvil in hope of keeping him away from objectives. This and a well placed debuff that delayed my stonehorn, allowed my opponent to rotate the boardstate and focus me down. His damage taking abilities were usefull as I was only able to do little damage without the charge in general.

 

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My point is that people here are overreacting to The New Thing. Good play still has value.

It was sarcasm.

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On 11/19/2019 at 10:56 AM, XReN said:

Bonesplitters Orruk Arrowboys do 2 attacks each with a bow at 18" 5+ 4+ - 1

They get 3rd attack for unit being 15+ models and they get rend -1 against monsters

So 2 units of 30 will generate 180 shots, or 2 units of 20 in Kunning Rukk battalion that would allow 1 unit to shoot in the hero phase

But I think @whispersofblood got modifiers slightly wrong. To achive 3+ 4+ they need to cast a spell on a double and generate 20 waaagh points. First is random, second is unlikely in the first turn. Maybe he is not aware of Kunning Rukk's restriction on unit sizes.

But they also have a spell that makes unmodified 6s to hit cause 2 hits instead of 1

The bonuses from the bigwaagh are in the combat phase

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For me the sad thing is there is no reason to not to take pettrifax, a army wide +1 to save on a incredibly resilent army is far better then any of the other subfactions.

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45 minutes ago, AaronWilson said:

For me the sad thing is there is no reason to not to take pettrifax, a army wide +1 to save on a incredibly resilent army is far better then any of the other subfactions.

Unless you want to run troop horde recursion with katakros, a ton of mortek, and harvesters in crematorian. Punishing your opponent for even attacking your troops ala plague monks

or if your part of a team tournament where null myriad shines as a counter pick to magic heavy armies slash if your store meta is magic heavy

mortis praetorians is also the only way to run zandtos and katakros together successfully, as you benefit from all of their abilities, and realistically with a 36 inch range if you set him at center of table everyone will get the plus one to save from his ability regardless. The command trait is not as good as minus 1 rend but it’s not awful  

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20 hours ago, Sleboda said:

My point is that people here are overreacting to The New Thing. Good play still has value.

Racing always comes down to the drivers but that doesn't mean one car isn't just plain faster than the others. Saying "good play still has value" is such an obvious  statement - it's clearly the most important thing and always has been. 

+++ MOD EDIT +++

Edited by RuneBrush
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Got out an played a game against Bonereapers (Petrifix Elite) and talked with three Bonereaper players about them. Definetly the most absurd game I've ever played in AOS (me playing as MawTribes). Main take aways:

Relentless Discipline points are easy to come by and not at all a scare resource. 7 to 10 seemed the normal range to generate per battleround. This is a major deal for my next two points:

The reroll saves on Mortek Guard is crazy good (as expected). Coupled with the rez 3 models ability from Arkhan there wasn't a feasible way for me to put a dent in these units. He had a harvester escorting his 40 man block around though I honestly think that's probably overkill. I had a Frostlord on Stonehorn fail to kill and die to a 10 man Mortek Guard unit over 3 turns (on the Mawtribes front, the counts as 10 models is great and he scored me several points despite getting killed by a 130 point unit) . He had 3 Mortek guard units (1x 40man and 2x 10 man) and took the battalion that lets one unit reroll for free. Between this and the Relentless Discipline generation he had all 3 units rerolling saves for every combat in the game. 

The unexpected thing for me as the Rend Command ability. I hadn't thought about it much but it really ups their damage and is readily available thanks to mass RD points. Coupled with an endless spell giving +1 hit, a spell for exploding on 5s, and an artifact for +1 attack these guys were absolute blenders in addition to being super tanks. I expected them to be hard as nails but I wasn't expecting the damage output. He was typically using this on one unit per turn.

The Nexus.... kept the -1 cast/unbind on my butcher all game. Coupled with Arkhan it meant I didn't really have spell casting and I couldn't do anything against his. He was using a spell to gain d3 RD points too (feeds into above).

Mobility: Definitely not a weakness like some like to bring up on this forum. Not a strength either really but the ability to gain +3 movement and still run makes up for the lack of auto run 6.  A 40 man Mortek guard unit has a large footprint and 10 man guard units are strong enough to guard objectives from most chaff units (or you know...Frost Lords on Stonehorns….). Also, a lot of scenarios only have 2 to 4 objectives...

That all said I did notice some weaknesses.

Shooting. No rerolls against shooting meant my leadbelchers shooting attacks were doing more damage than anything else in my army. Likewise mortal wounds really hurt these guys but you better be Hallowheart if you're relying on spells from them due to Arkhan's unbinds and the Nexus.

The leaders: A lot of the craziness came from the RD points and support spells/abilities from the heroes. IF you can kill them I could see the army crumbling though  base 3+ saves on units and battleshock immunity might still let them hold objectives for awhile. Telling people to just "Kill the heroes stupid" isn't really helpful advice when so many armies have such weak shooting and the heroes all sitting behind a wall of Mortek Guard.

TLDR: A tuned Petrifix Elite army seems like the very definition of a Skew list. I can see them being beat by very specific counter builds that use lots of chaff and strong shooting (cough cough CoS or Hallowheart magic lists that will laugh at the Nexus and Arkhan's unbinds). But general "all comers" lists are going to fail hard and some entire battletomes are just not going to be capable of doing anything. I specifically say "tuned Petrifix Elite list" since outside of that subfaction the army seems substantially weaker which I suppose is a good thing for Bonereapers players seeking friendly games.

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1 hour ago, Forrix said:

The Nexus.... kept the -1 cast/unbind on my butcher all game. Coupled with Arkhan it meant I didn't really have spell casting and I couldn't do anything against his. He was using a spell to gain d3 RD points too (feeds into above).

Shooting. No rerolls against shooting meant my leadbelchers shooting attacks were doing more damage than anything else in my army. Likewise mortal wounds really hurt these guys but you better be Hallowheart if you're relying on spells from them due to Arkhan's unbinds and the Nexus.

The leaders: A lot of the craziness came from the RD points and support spells/abilities from the heroes. IF you can kill them I could see the army crumbling though  base 3+ saves on units and battleshock immunity might still let them hold objectives for awhile. Telling people to just "Kill the heroes stupid" isn't really helpful advice when so many armies have such weak shooting and the heroes all sitting behind a wall of Mortek Guard.

The Nexus is basically a Priest with 4 different Spells to choose from, a huge range, beeing unkillable. Quite a lot value here compared to IDK or similar terrain. The biggest letdown is how gw design failed to match fluff and rules from what I see. Nevertheless I would love to add such a thing into any of my armies.

It is interesting to know they have no reroll against shooting, I belive we played this part wrong in our last game. Against bigger Blobbs Thundertusks may be a blessing.

About the leaders: Does it really help to kill thoose? I mean, they can use Relentless Tactics thingies freely without a hero, having a hekators nearby

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3 minutes ago, Charleston said:

The Nexus is basically a Priest with 4 different Spells to choose from, a huge range, beeing unkillable. Quite a lot value here compared to IDK or similar terrain. The biggest letdown is how gw design failed to match fluff and rules from what I see. Nevertheless I would love to add such a thing into any of my armies.

It is interesting to know they have no reroll against shooting, I belive we played this part wrong in our last game. Against bigger Blobbs Thundertusks may be a blessing.

About the leaders: Does it really help to kill thoose? I mean, they can use Relentless Tactics thingies freely without a hero, having a hekators nearby

I'm on the fence about Thundertusks. If they were just a little cheaper or had a 6" bubble of -1hit instead of just themselves being -1 then I think I'd take one or two. I've got one sitting on a shelf so I might give him a spin just to see. They do run into an issue of really just being good against big blobs so they're not that great against in all comers list (that's really a MawTribes issue more than an OBR though, Beastclaw Raiders are just so poor outside of the Frost Lord).

For the Leaders, yeah, since they get one RD point per leader each round (and two for a Liege Kavalos) and d3 from that spell.  Kill the leaders and they're looking at 1 RD point per battalion (likely 1)  and then fishing for 6s for the rest of their units. Not to mention you'd shut off Drain Vitality and Empower Nadirite Weapons and any endless spells (once they're dispelled). 

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