AoS 2 - Ogor Mawtribe Discussion

[Pitloze]

43 minutes ago, FatherTurin said:

Honestly, I was in the amulet camp since the realm artifacts came out, but I’m definitely going to try the Thermal Rider Cloak and see how it works.  An 18” flying move on a FLoSH (19” in Boulderhead) strikes me as...well, pretty good to say the least.

With the old book I would have put Thermal rider on the same level as Amulet. Because we had no other option that to try and table our opponents. So you might as well go for that hail mary attack and try and take out their key units. But since stonehorns lost their run & charge it means that it's actually rather hard to move a stonehorn over enough units to get to those targets.

Furthest that a stonehorn can move now with cloak is 19 inches (12 + hungry + boulderhead+cloak). Old stonehorn could go 22 inches (or 25 with the right winter roll). Those 3 inches you are missing matter a lot. The entire base has to make it over. And that stonehorn is then completely alone. If you are using Thermalrider to make a turn one charge into their front then I would say that Jorlbad does that job better. Because then you have a better chance at taking their chaff off with one stonehorn and then charging something else in to actually do some damage.

I've used Thermalrider, Ignax, Amulet, and Old tokens (when it was still any hero phase) the most. It's a meta call at the end of the day. But I pretty much go with Brand of the Svard + Amulet exclusively now.

Edit:

Bloodgullet artefact is also pretty legit. But never tried it on BCR units. It does great on a Tyrant.

Edited January 22, 2020 by Pitloze

[Forrix]

On ‎1‎/‎19‎/‎2020 at 1:25 PM, Jabbuk said:

I find it interesting that after the book, every key content creators were saying that BCR kind of got shafted by the new book and Gutbusters got really improved. Yet, all the winning lists I see in tournaments are almost entirely consisted of BCR and huge beasts. I'm following a few channels as well on YouTube that are specialized in Ogors because they've been playing them for a long time and it really seems BCR is the way to go in the current meta. As a new comer who also really likes the foot Ogors, I wish the Gutbusters side would also be at least as competitive as the BCR. 

Would be curious to hear what are your thoughts on this? Maybe I'm totally wrong, I often am.

That being said, it's really amazing to see a Mawtribes player win with 5-0. Really happy for him and us.

Honestly, I still think BCR got shafted. Its just that the Stonehorn, specifically the Frostlord on Stonehorn, is really good. You'll notice that the only artifact most of these lists take from the Mawtribes battletome is the Brand of Svard (which also means they are taking Boulderhead though that's not really a tax). I feel the BCR side is kind of like Idoneth. Yes, its competitive but its basically a bunch of variations of one list that centers around spamming one unit (Stonehorns in place of eels). Step outside of that and the competitiveness plummets. 

I'm still happy we have a competitive build though, especially one that is fun to play and fairly unique (monster mash that can play the objective game).   

[chyortskazal]

Hello follow Tyrants!

 

I have a small tournament coming up at my LGS this Saturday, and going to be bring my gutbusters!  I am pretty new to the faction, and only have a few games with them under my belt as part of a modified firestorm campaign I am also playing in (my first/main army is Deepkin).

 

The scene is semi competitive, nothing usually ultra meta, but folks are known to throw down allarielle, 2-3 stonehorns, nagash, etc for example.

 

Im looking to run Underguts and have the following list built, painted, and ready to roll!  Looking for any advice, or insight into playing with this sort of list.  I have a few things I could swap around (have 6 more gluttons, and a slaughtermaster available to me), but sadly no more leadbelhcers.. I know I ideally need 2-4 more for this style list, but 🤷‍♂️  .  

Main Questions: 

Should I swap the butcher for a slaughtermaster? 

 Should I run the leadbelchers as two units of 4, or keep the one block of 4 and two of 2? 

Is Blubbergrub Stench worth it; seems super fun/thematic for when they rhinoxes ultimately get into the fray) but perhaps blood feast or the -1 to save spell would be better? 

 

Allegiance: Mawtribes

Great Maw Tribe: Underguts

 

*** LEADERS ***

Tyrant (160)

General

Command Trait: Mass of Scars

Artefact: Gruesome Trophy Rack

Big Name: Fateseeker

 

Butcher (140)

Cleaver

Artefact: Gnoblar Blast Keg

Lore of Gutmagic: Blubbergrub Stench

 

*** UNITS ***

40x Gnoblars (200)

12x Ogor Gluttons (400)

   - Pairs of Clubs or Blades

4x Ironguts (220)

4x Leadbelchers (160)

2x Leadbelchers (80)

2x Leadbelchers (80)

Ironblaster (120)

Ironblaster (120)

Ironblaster (120)

 

*** BATTALIONS ***

Butchers Band (140)

 

*** EXTRAS ***

Extra Command Point (50)

 

 

Thanks in advance for any thoughts, advice, etc!

 

 

[Frowny]

To answer your questions

1 I like the butcher signature spell better than. The slaughtermaster and the pot is quite unreliable. I'd keep it

2 you have a lot of drops anyway and 2 small units give you more charge dice. I'd keep them

3 never played it

Other thoughts: do you really need a cp? You want 1 for the ironblasters and 1 to bully the gluttons. After that I guess it's rerolling charges? Could be dropped if you want, maybe for more gnoblars if you have free points. 20 more bodies will make you more resilient than bullying for battleshock would be. Or you could split them into 2x 20 for better coverage

I think the tyrants guard may be better than the butcher band for underguts. It also allows you to turn your gluttons into more leadbelchers if you have them, or buy a 4th rhinox. Not sure what models you have though

 

Underguts seems to build itself.

4x ironblasters

4x ironguts

1 Tyrant 

Tyrant gutguard

1 butcher.

1-2 gnoblars

15 leadbelchers or so.

Has anybody taken such a list to a tourney?

Regardless of what you do, please tell us how it works.id love to hear

[Sartxac]

4 ironblasters in underguts with +1 to hit (tyrant artefact) could kill a maw krusha in 2 rounds (12.44 average damage with rend -2) or two little strategic heroes in one round. I only have one ironblaster, i can't taste it. Has anyone tried this? 

Edited January 22, 2020 by Sartxac

[Kramer]

5 hours ago, Forrix said:

I'm still happy we have a competitive build though, especially one that is fun to play and fairly unique (monster mash that can play the objective game).   

To be fair. It always ends up like that right? One maybe two builds tops with very little variations in between. This is of course only the case when trying for 5-0. 
what army has more builds? Or even two that are significantly different? 
With it without Morathi? Still the same temple. Does that count as significantly different? 

its a bit semantics but also that’s what happens. Something works a bit better than the rest so players go all in on that. For BCR it’s stonehorns. And maybe even for mawtribes as a whole.

and I fully agree with you/ what I quoted, by the way. And would even add to that, and besides the comp build that’s starting to develop, the book allows for so much more solid meets narrative lists. Which is a super good thing in my mind. 

[Kramer]

2 hours ago, Frowny said:

After that I guess it's rerolling charges?

Rerolling ones To hit. on either a cannon or more reliably on the ironguts. That’s what i’d probably go for in the end. 

[Valentine009]

Working through my ogres.

Edited January 23, 2020 by Valentine009

[Walrustaco]

1 hour ago, Valentine009 said:

Working through my ogres.

Looking excellent. Love the variety in skin tones.

[AverageBoss]

Dusting my 7th/8th ed Ogres off and making some additions. Looking at this atm, just need to decide on a big name.
 

Allegiance: Ogor Mawtribes
- Mawtribe: None
Slaughtermaster (140)
- General
- Trait: Gastromancer
- Artefact: Wizardflesh Apron
Tyrant (160)
- Artefact: Gruesome Trophy Rack
12 x Ogor Gluttons (400)
- Pairs of Clubs or Blades
12 x Ogor Gluttons (400)
- Pairs of Clubs or Blades
8 x Ironguts (440)
4 x Leadbelchers (160)
4 x Leadbelchers (160)
Goremand (140)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 175
 

[Kramer]

11 hours ago, Valentine009 said:

 

 

Wow your gnoblars are tiny... I can’t even see them on those bases  

kudos on the variation in skin tone. I’ve caught myself recently. so now adding more variation myself.  👍

[Kramer]

4 hours ago, AverageBoss said:

Dusting my 7th/8th ed Ogres off and making some additions. Looking at this atm, just need to decide on a big name.
 

Allegiance: Ogor Mawtribes
- Mawtribe: None
Slaughtermaster (140)
- General
- Trait: Gastromancer
- Artefact: Wizardflesh Apron
Tyrant (160)
- Artefact: Gruesome Trophy Rack
12 x Ogor Gluttons (400)
- Pairs of Clubs or Blades
12 x Ogor Gluttons (400)
- Pairs of Clubs or Blades
8 x Ironguts (440)
4 x Leadbelchers (160)
4 x Leadbelchers (160)
Goremand (140)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 175
 

In general I find the +1 save (fate seeker) the best. If you have a specific role for the tyrant or a specific artefact it’s maybe a different story. 

Walcrusher when fighting KO for example. 

[Malakithe]

8 hours ago, AverageBoss said:

Dusting my 7th/8th ed Ogres off and making some additions. Looking at this atm, just need to decide on a big name.
 

Allegiance: Ogor Mawtribes
- Mawtribe: None
Slaughtermaster (140)
- General
- Trait: Gastromancer
- Artefact: Wizardflesh Apron
Tyrant (160)
- Artefact: Gruesome Trophy Rack
12 x Ogor Gluttons (400)
- Pairs of Clubs or Blades
12 x Ogor Gluttons (400)
- Pairs of Clubs or Blades
8 x Ironguts (440)
4 x Leadbelchers (160)
4 x Leadbelchers (160)
Goremand (140)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 175
 

You could consider Tyrant's Gutguard to protect your Tyrant

[FatherTurin]

9 hours ago, AverageBoss said:

Dusting my 7th/8th ed Ogres off and making some additions. Looking at this atm, just need to decide on a big name.
 

Allegiance: Ogor Mawtribes
- Mawtribe: None
Slaughtermaster (140)
- General
- Trait: Gastromancer
- Artefact: Wizardflesh Apron
Tyrant (160)
- Artefact: Gruesome Trophy Rack
12 x Ogor Gluttons (400)
- Pairs of Clubs or Blades
12 x Ogor Gluttons (400)
- Pairs of Clubs or Blades
8 x Ironguts (440)
4 x Leadbelchers (160)
4 x Leadbelchers (160)
Goremand (140)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 175
 

Just spitballing here, I’m still building up the gutbusters side of my army (why oh why can’t Ironguts get back in stock?).

This list is remarkably similar to the one I have planned, except I have a butcher instead of the second unit of leadbelchers, and I’m going gloodgullet, making the tyrant the general.  

Bloodgullet with 2 wizards gives you 4 spells (and 4 casts), so losing Gastromancer is no big deal (actually, your list gets zero benefit from Blubbergrub Stench and Molten Entrails, so it’s a wash), and the extra pile in range from the Bloodgullet trait is great for big blocks of Ogors.  The healing from the artifact is kind of a side-grade from the trophy rack.

Personally I’m trying a way to fit a junkmob in there as well, but I keep having to sacrifice too much to make it fit.

[Valentine009]

10 hours ago, Kramer said:

Wow your gnoblars are tiny... I can’t even see them on those bases  

kudos on the variation in skin tone. I’ve caught myself recently. so now adding more variation myself.  👍

After painting basically a wall of flesh I realized I wanted to mix it up hah. Lorewise it definitely makes sense that as a wandering band absorbing tribes from different lands and different realms they wouldn't all look the same. Also, painting black skin was cool skill set to develop.

They were all primed with ubashi bone. Then I shaded with fleshtone. Then for the dark skin guys I did a layer of katachan flesh, with 50/50 katachan / tusker highlights for a nice reddish black tan look. The white guys were just Canadian flesh + Kislev flesh.

Edited January 23, 2020 by Valentine009

[Walrustaco]

So I tried the Eurlbad list tonight. For reference it is this:

Boulderhead

Firelord on Stonehorn 400 - Black Clatterhorn, Thermalrider Cloak

Frostlord on Stonehorn 400 - Metalcruncher, Brand of the Svard

Huskard on Stonehorn 320 - Old Granitetooth, Blood Vulture

4 Mournfang 280 - gargant hackers

2 Mournfang 140 - gargant hackers

Stonehorn Beastriders 300 - Blood Vulture

Eurlbad 140

 

I faced KO one game and Petrifex Bonereapers the next. I won both games. First one was Scorched Earth and stonehorns are so good at holding then burning objectives. 

Despite not taking Amulet, the Firelord (I'm trying to have this catch on) tanked a lot and the 19" flying move was incredible. For the flexibility and presence I feel like I rate it higher. 

 

Vs Petrifex the mortal wound output that this list has is what swings it imo. Even though I kept forgetting to roll for the everwinter thing. -2 rend is everything too.

Excited to be taking this list to a small tournament at Leodis Games in Farsley on the 1st February and probably to the Element Games Grand Slam on Feb 29th.

 

[FatherTurin]

2 hours ago, Walrustaco said:

So I tried the Eurlbad list tonight. For reference it is this:

Boulderhead

Firelord on Stonehorn 400 - Black Clatterhorn, Thermalrider Cloak

Frostlord on Stonehorn 400 - Metalcruncher, Brand of the Svard

Huskard on Stonehorn 320 - Old Granitetooth, Blood Vulture

4 Mournfang 280 - gargant hackers

2 Mournfang 140 - gargant hackers

Stonehorn Beastriders 300 - Blood Vulture

Eurlbad 140

 

I faced KO one game and Petrifex Bonereapers the next. I won both games. First one was Scorched Earth and stonehorns are so good at holding then burning objectives. 

Despite not taking Amulet, the Firelord (I'm trying to have this catch on) tanked a lot and the 19" flying move was incredible. For the flexibility and presence I feel like I rate it higher. 

 

Vs Petrifex the mortal wound output that this list has is what swings it imo. Even though I kept forgetting to roll for the everwinter thing. -2 rend is everything too.

Excited to be taking this list to a small tournament at Leodis Games in Farsley on the 1st February and probably to the Element Games Grand Slam on Feb 29th.

 

Yeah, I haven’t played a game to try out the cloak, but I think with the multiple threats from the quad-stonehorn list, the extra range and mobility is worth it.

If I’m doing a 2-3 Stonehorn list, or tossing a FLoSH in with gutbusters, I’m still taking the amulet, since there’s no target priority headaches for the opponent to deal with.

[Jabbuk]

I'm about to build my Scraplaunchers or Ironblasters from my FoB kits and am unsure which to build. I was listening to Warhammer Weekly analysis of the Mawtribes time and they seemed pretty sold on Scraplaunchers, including a Junkmob and that it was really cheap. 

I guess Scraplaunchers are more useful when your meta is full of large low armor chaff and that the Ironblasters are more suited to one shot single targets? I'm looking at using those in and underguts. 

Thoughts?

[Sauriv]

10 minutes ago, Jabbuk said:

I guess Scraplaunchers are more useful when your meta is full of large low armor chaff and that the Ironblasters are more suited to one shot single targets? I'm looking at using those in and underguts. 

Thoughts?

Underguts? There in no synergies for Scraplaunchers in that tribe, the command ability only works for Underguts Ironblasters. 

I guess that between the two is ironblaster the more popular just because of being able to use the c.ability for more attacks. One big drawback is that the Scraplaunchers have no rend which could be a problem in an meta with many mortek guard spamming OBR lists. 

Never used Scraplaunchers though.

[FatherTurin]

1 hour ago, Jabbuk said:

I'm about to build my Scraplaunchers or Ironblasters from my FoB kits and am unsure which to build. I was listening to Warhammer Weekly analysis of the Mawtribes time and they seemed pretty sold on Scraplaunchers, including a Junkmob and that it was really cheap. 

I guess Scraplaunchers are more useful when your meta is full of large low armor chaff and that the Ironblasters are more suited to one shot single targets? I'm looking at using those in and underguts. 

Thoughts?

If you are doing underguts, go with Ironblasters.

If you aren’t, it really is your choice based on what you are fighting, but without the extra attack and the likely inclusion of the trophy rack in an underguts army, Ironblasters will whiff a lot, while Scraplaunchers are more accurate, especially against larger units and/or in a junkmob.

Personally, I’ve moved away from Underguts, without maxing out Ironblasters the sub faction feels like a trap.  You probably have 160 points of Tyrant parked next to them to use the CA and provide the bonus to hit.  Even with those buffs, I think 4 Ironblasters averages around 14 total damage (to a hero or monster) against a 4+ save.  12 Gluttons without any hero support whatsoever averages 26 damage to the same target, plus 3-4 mortal wounds on an average charge.

Now, there’s plenty to be said about doing damage at range rather than needing to get a unit of gluttons to the target intact, but for my money I’d rather have the gluttons (or more gluttons).

Also, with Tzeentch being such a boogeyman right now, the scraplaunchers can either soften up horrors before they tarpit the entire army, or, more likely, nuke the units that are trying to cap objectives while your Ogors are tied up.

[Magnus The Blue]

Problem with scrap launchers is minimum range and aweful melee profile means they are easily nullified by being trapped in combat.  Just not a problem with Iron Blasters, who hold their own and keep on blasting.  Makes for a much more flexible unit.

[Jabbuk]

1 hour ago, FatherTurin said:

If you are doing underguts, go with Ironblasters.

If you aren’t, it really is your choice based on what you are fighting, but without the extra attack and the likely inclusion of the trophy rack in an underguts army, Ironblasters will whiff a lot, while Scraplaunchers are more accurate, especially against larger units and/or in a junkmob.

Personally, I’ve moved away from Underguts, without maxing out Ironblasters the sub faction feels like a trap.  You probably have 160 points of Tyrant parked next to them to use the CA and provide the bonus to hit.  Even with those buffs, I think 4 Ironblasters averages around 14 total damage (to a hero or monster) against a 4+ save.  12 Gluttons without any hero support whatsoever averages 26 damage to the same target, plus 3-4 mortal wounds on an average charge.

Now, there’s plenty to be said about doing damage at range rather than needing to get a unit of gluttons to the target intact, but for my money I’d rather have the gluttons (or more gluttons).

Also, with Tzeentch being such a boogeyman right now, the scraplaunchers can either soften up horrors before they tarpit the entire army, or, more likely, nuke the units that are trying to cap objectives while your Ogors are tied up.

Very interesting, thank you for sharing your insight. A while ago, there were talks that Underguts might actually secretly be the most competitive build in the book. Is this still a thought that people are sharing after trying it out? 

1 hour ago, Magnus The Blue said:

Problem with scrap launchers is minimum range and aweful melee profile means they are easily nullified by being trapped in combat.  Just not a problem with Iron Blasters, who hold their own and keep on blasting.  Makes for a much more flexible unit.

I thought it had been fixed in the FAQ? at least the Rhinox attacks, that is. I guess if it is guarded by a large group of gnoblars in junkmob, they would still be useful?

[FatherTurin]

35 minutes ago, Jabbuk said:

Very interesting, thank you for sharing your insight. A while ago, there were talks that Underguts might actually secretly be the most competitive build in the book. Is this still a thought that people are sharing after trying it out? 

I thought it had been fixed in the FAQ? at least the Rhinox attacks, that is. I guess if it is guarded by a large group of gnoblars in junkmob, they would still be useful?

I don’t know about Underguts being anything like that.  It kind of forces you into the trap of focusing on shooting, and even with the bonuses from underguts Ogors don’t come close to the shooting potential from Cities, KO, or Tzeentch.  Leadbelchers in particular are Gluttons with a shooting attack, not dedicated ranged units.  So many of the buffs Mawtribes have access to are melee centered, so it’s almost like plopping a gunline in an army that wants nothing to do with a gunline.  Maybe it just hasn’t clicked for me, but my feelings boil down to Bloodgullet being superior in every way.  And totally aside from the gutbusters, recent successes indicate that the most competitive build in the book revolves around the swift application of as many Stonehorns as possible.

As for the melee bit, yeah, I’m not sure how 3 club attacks and the multi shot profile makes that much of a difference in melee, 40 gnoblars (minus the casualties from making them immune to battleshock) bubble wrapping the scraplaunchers so they can do their thing seems fine in my book.

Then again, I have trouble fitting any artillery at all in my Gutbusters builds.  Ironblasters outside of underguts are straight trash (playing KO with the old book has left me with an enormous distaste for 1 shot 4+ to hit cannons), and Scraplaunchers without a junkmob seem meh.  By the time I build a Bloodgullet army, carving out enough points for a Junkmob involves sacrificing too much.

But of course, to each their own.  I’m not saying Underguts is bad, just that I prefer Bloodgullet and a couple big blocks of gluttons running in and eating people.

[Magnus The Blue]

On a 120 point unit, 3 extra 2 damage attacks and 6 1 rend shots (all 3+/3+) is a massive difference.  Also means it's often worth charging them in to get the bonus mortal wound and more damage on Rhinox. Changes it to a dual purpose unit, more so with a few of them.  

Screening scrap launchers is all fine but then your investing even more points in a pure shooting unit ( that isn't great).

I do agree that Iron Blasters are indifferent outside Underguts, but scrap launchers still seem worse to me.

Personally I am getting a lot of mileage out of Underguts (10 games unbeaten so far), it's not a gun line through it's a mobile melee army with a shooting threat that's hard to ignore or mitigate.  Multiple small units of lead belchhers are particularly nasty.

[chyortskazal]

16 minutes ago, Magnus The Blue said:

On a 120 point unit, 3 extra 2 damage attacks and 6 1 rend shots (all 3+/3+) is a massive difference.  Also means it's often worth charging them in to get the bonus mortal wound and more damage on Rhinox. Changes it to a dual purpose unit, more so with a few of them.  

Screening scrap launchers is all fine but then your investing even more points in a pure shooting unit ( that isn't great).

I do agree that Iron Blasters are indifferent outside Underguts, but scrap launchers still seem worse to me.

Personally I am getting a lot of mileage out of Underguts (10 games unbeaten so far), it's not a gun line through it's a mobile melee army with a shooting threat that's hard to ignore or mitigate.  Multiple small units of lead belchhers are particularly nasty.

I agree with your points on the ironblaster, and gthink they have a lot of underutlized potential as a hybrid shooting/melee unit, espeically in a pure gutbusters list if you can get them on the charge with blubbergrub stench.

 

May I ask what your normal underguts list is?   I have a bloodgullet list, and I just invested in some more ironblasters to also be able to field an underguts focused list, so curious to see what you have been running with success!