AoS 2 - Ogor Mawtribe Discussion

[Kadeton]

Bloodgullet is definitely the exception! Everything works with that, mainly because the Splatter Cleaver is totally amazing, the only unit you need to include to take full advantage of everything is a Butcher (and Gluttons if you care about the command trait, which you don't need to), and nothing else is restricted.

I guess the restrictions aren't as hard-and-fast as I made out, but certainly for Beastclaws there's a lot of pressure to focus based on your tribe, both in terms of which units can benefit and in what alternatives you're forced to give up by making that choice (e.g. running Beastclaw heroes without Dig Deep... yuck!). And while you might run your Underguts list as Bloodgullet, presumably you'd never run them as Boulderhead or Thunderbellies?

You're right that CoS is even more restricted though, and I'm probably overstating the case that Ogors are toward the end of that scale rather than somewhere in the middle compared to other armies. Gloomspite is another example... perhaps as a general trend, the battletomes that are made up of two or more micro-factions mashed together are worse off than those created as a more coherent single faction? I don't know. Maybe it's all in my head!

[Kramer]

11 hours ago, Kadeton said:

Bloodgullet is definitely the exception! Everything works with that, mainly because the Splatter Cleaver is totally amazing, the only unit you need to include to take full advantage of everything is a Butcher (and Gluttons if you care about the command trait, which you don't need to), and nothing else is restricted.

I guess the restrictions aren't as hard-and-fast as I made out, but certainly for Beastclaws there's a lot of pressure to focus based on your tribe, both in terms of which units can benefit and in what alternatives you're forced to give up by making that choice (e.g. running Beastclaw heroes without Dig Deep... yuck!). And while you might run your Underguts list as Bloodgullet, presumably you'd never run them as Boulderhead or Thunderbellies?

You're right that CoS is even more restricted though, and I'm probably overstating the case that Ogors are toward the end of that scale rather than somewhere in the middle compared to other armies. Gloomspite is another example... perhaps as a general trend, the battletomes that are made up of two or more micro-factions mashed together are worse off than those created as a more coherent single faction? I don't know. Maybe it's all in my head!

That’s a good question.I don’t know if they are worse off being two or more micro factions. 

maybe they are, because they kept the keywords and keywords specific abilities. that does hinder it. Almost all those old world factions that come together struggle with that. So a specific subfaction could make that worse. 
just thinking of the factions I see traces of it but nothing as bad as CoS luckily 😅

guess you do have a point there. 

I think the battleline if, tied to subfaction is a bad design choice no matter what. so that’s the ‘issue’ with KO. But can’t think of any other book that has that. 

oh and certain battalions make it worse as well! Luckily the gutbusters ones are really solid. Haven’t used the beastclaw raiders ones much. 
but again those cities battalions stifle all creativity . 

[Lord Krungharr]

It does seem that sometimes GW has stuck in some sprinkles to help out the old grognards with old metal models from 20 years ago, just so they don't leave and can use them somehow in modern times to some extent (looking at YOU Winterbite Yhettees).  And I think that's actually really nice of them!  But they gently nudge us to newer models, or at least ones with plastic kits that might be only maybe 10 years old to lighten our transports for our aching backs (hello Clan Skryre!).

I tried to run a Cities army but yeah, without the city battalion specific units, it's tough.  That's a 'please keep playing' battletome.

 

[Kramer]

21 minutes ago, Lord Krungharr said:

r aching backs (hello Clan Skryre

Hello 2x20 metal globadiers. Don’t tell me they nudged me towards plastic alternatives on that one 😂

[Lord Krungharr]

On 1/25/2021 at 3:00 PM, Kramer said:

Hello 2x20 metal globadiers. Don’t tell me they nudged me towards plastic alternatives on that one 😂

And apparently they can be taken in units of 30!

[Kramer]

4 hours ago, Lord Krungharr said:

And apparently they can be taken in units of 30!

My back ain’t that strong. Neither is my wallet. 

[AverageBoss]

18 hours ago, Kramer said:

My back ain’t that strong. Neither is my wallet. 

I used to have an IG army back in 4th-5th, that was 65 metal stormtroopers and 3 half metal demolisher tanks (+7 plastic chimeras). XD
That was a pain to transport.

But this metal slaughtermaster (or Skrag the Slaughterer for those who were around) weighs an absolute ton all on his own. XD

[Kramer]

5 hours ago, AverageBoss said:

I used to have an IG army back in 4th-5th, that was 65 metal stormtroopers and 3 half metal demolisher tanks (+7 plastic chimeras). XD
That was a pain to transport.

But this metal slaughtermaster (or Skrag the Slaughterer for those who were around) weighs an absolute ton all on his own. XD

Haha yeah, I had an army of 30 hammerers, 30 longbeards and 30 metal thunderers, plus all the warmachines and heroes for my dwarfs. That must have weight an insane amount as well.... Those youngsters aint got the back for it anymore #grumblegrumble. 

They now sell Skrag in Resin right?

[AverageBoss]

7 hours ago, Kramer said:

Haha yeah, I had an army of 30 hammerers, 30 longbeards and 30 metal thunderers, plus all the warmachines and heroes for my dwarfs. That must have weight an insane amount as well.... Those youngsters aint got the back for it anymore #grumblegrumble. 

They now sell Skrag in Resin right?

Ya, hes resin now. But as I was looking for alternatives (I don't like GWs resin or finecast offerings), I found an old metal one on ebay for $30 and grabbed it up. Needs a lot of work to make it table-top ready (lots of gaps, and a broken stump hook), but I am happy to have found him. :)

Now watch GW actually announce a new plastic one around the time I finish him. XD

[Kramer]

1 hour ago, AverageBoss said:

Ya, hes resin now. But as I was looking for alternatives (I don't like GWs resin or finecast offerings), I found an old metal one on ebay for $30 and grabbed it up. Needs a lot of work to make it table-top ready (lots of gaps, and a broken stump hook), but I am happy to have found him.

Now watch GW actually announce a new plastic one around the time I finish him. XD

Haha if that's not painting motivation i don't know what is. 

[Kramer]

Still tinkering with underguts. I find it such a fun challenge to get some Beastclaw in there. 

Currently i'm thinking something like this for a TTS game. Any suggestions on the artefacts?

One needs to go for the Gnoblar Casket. 

Also considering getting the belchers down to 10 and getting some extra cats for screens. 

Basic idea is replacing the shooting of the cannons for mortals of the thundertusks. Leadbelchers are amazing on their own. Support the 4 ironguts, with the slaughtermaster. +1 attack, +1 hit makes even 4 ironguts a big threat. 

Also fun is the Mass of scars and The rime shroud vs my regular KO opponent 😂

 

Edited January 29, 2021 by Kramer

[Lord Krungharr]

Now that's an interesting use of Underguts; I think the Gnoblar Bomb could go on the Slaughtermaster.  Maybe save it for when he gets the cauldron-pick that does mortal wounds amidst a mass of enemies, and chuck the bomb for extra extra MW that turn.

[Kramer]

27 minutes ago, Lord Krungharr said:

Now that's an interesting use of Underguts; I think the Gnoblar Bomb could go on the Slaughtermaster.  Maybe save it for when he gets the cauldron-pick that does mortal wounds amidst a mass of enemies, and chuck the bomb for extra extra MW that turn.

Oh that’s a good thought as well. He’s likely moving forward with the ironguts, so he might be in range for it earlier than my Frostlord. 

[Tzeentch]

Is the all mounted Beastclaw list interesting to play? I love all the models but it seems like it might be a bit of a dull army, tactics and strategy wise.

Edited January 31, 2021 by Tzeentch

[Malakithe]

On 1/29/2021 at 12:28 PM, Kramer said:

Still tinkering with underguts. I find it such a fun challenge to get some Beastclaw in there. 

Currently i'm thinking something like this for a TTS game. Any suggestions on the artefacts?

One needs to go for the Gnoblar Casket. 

Also considering getting the belchers down to 10 and getting some extra cats for screens. 

Basic idea is replacing the shooting of the cannons for mortals of the thundertusks. Leadbelchers are amazing on their own. Support the 4 ironguts, with the slaughtermaster. +1 attack, +1 hit makes even 4 ironguts a big threat. 

Also fun is the Mass of scars and The rime shroud vs my regular KO opponent 😂

 

I like messing around with Underguts. I tend to lean towards a Tyrant guard and msu style. A unit of 12 might be bad for battleshock

[Kramer]

1 hour ago, Malakithe said:

I like messing around with Underguts. I tend to lean towards a Tyrant guard and msu style. A unit of 12 might be bad for battleshock

It isn’t much of an issue if I’m honest. I always field my leadbelchers in units of 10. But I had 90 points left over. 

in underguts I usually have a Gut guard as well. Especially since I went down to two cannons instead of three or four. But trying to include a Frostlord led me off the beaten track a bit onto this weirdness 😂

I use the leadbelchers mostly as a melee unit with rend and some extra flexibility. So them not getting a big punch in first, as what happens with Msu, hurts me more than battleshock. Although there are bad match ups for it for sure  

I tried msu a few times but I also didn’t like it as a playstyle so it might be better but I can’t get it to work. 

as a side note most of my TTS armies in 2020 started with a goremand battalion with slaughtermaster, 8 ironguts, 12 gluttons, 10 leadbelchers. Which doesn’t leave much wiggle room. But it’s such a solid start. 

Edited January 31, 2021 by Kramer

[Malakithe]

8 ironguts huh? how does that work out? 4 of them is scary enough

[Eorek]

I have an ogre list I' d love to hear some opinions and hopefully make it even meaner; 

Allegiance: Ogor Mawtribes
- Mawtribe: Winterbite

Leaders
Firebelly (120)
- Lore of the Sun-Eater: Billowing Ash
Slaughtermaster (140)
- General
- Command Trait: Wintertouched
- Lore of Gutmagic: Ribcracker
Frostlord on Stonehorn (400)
- Artefact: Frostfang
- Mount Trait: Metalcruncher
Icebrow Hunter (120)

Battleline
4 x Ironguts (220)
4 x Ironguts (220)
4 x Ironguts (220)
12 x Ogor Gluttons (400)
- Clubs or Blades with Iron Fists

Units
8 x Frost Sabres (160)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 146

9 drops
 

Alright, where to start...

Firstly; the way you generally win games is by playing the scenario and I tried to make a list that can play all of them, It has enough battleline for scorched earth, a monster for both the extra points for holding stuff with a monster and a tanky hero that can go for an early objective on three places and to top it all off a large-ish unit of cats+ hunter that can do all sorta of secondaries.

Secondly; I considered the meta, and in a vacum I'd alwsys play blood gullet... however in the meta atn you generally don't get to cast spells which negates alot of the blood gullet bonuses and winterbite negates alot of the incoming damage from shooting armies, add a firebelly to the mix and you have yourself some pretty solid - to hit stack. The cats provide a screen and you should have tools to deal with alot of builds. Then you sprinkle in some 'silver bullets' to deal with stuff... msu ironguts for lumineth, ribcracker for ossiarchs etc.

Rest speaks for itself. Can take a punch and hit back even harder.

Potential flaws:

I'd sell my soul for a ten points decrease somewhere... could then drop 2 cats for a cmd point to negate those alpha bravery bombs... fitting in a 100p skal would also be super solid for that extra relic aswell(either ignore -1 rend on flosh of 1 auto dispell) however that is wishful thinking.

And this list is a 9 drop making you more often than not lose first turn priority. Shuffling the list into a tyrants gutguard would help with this, however i don't know where to find the points.

Places where I see potential savings:

1. Downgrade the flosh to a huskard 80p(... 3+save though...)

2. Drop two cats 40p (below 6 cats they stop being able to preform their role)

3. Drop three gluttons 40p(9 could probably do fine... however 3 ogres for 40p is a steal)

4. Drop the entire cat squad and hunter and bring in a gnoblar screen. 180p

5. Drop the flosh entierly 400p (... tyrant+gutguard+ unit of gnoblars right there)

Sorry for the wall of text! But felt I needed to share some of my thoughts aswell as posting the list...also how do ya'lls feel about yhetees?

 

 

[Beastmaster]

Yhetees can’t compete at the moment IMO. They don’t get the hungry/eating mechanic, they are on large bases and their 6+ save is only offset with frost aura against melee weapons. Also no trampling charge and no Might makes Right. I’d stick with gluttons at the moment. Maybe they’ll get a buff when they finally get new miniatures.

Edited February 5, 2021 by Beastmaster

[Eorek]

1 hour ago, Beastmaster said:

Yhetees can’t compete at the moment IMO. They don’t get the hungry/eating mechanic, they are on large bases and their 6+ save is only offset with frost aura against melee weapons. Also no trampling charge and no Might makes Right. I’d stick with gluttons at the moment. Maybe they’ll get a buff when they finally get new miniatures.

Yea. Sorta feeling I get with em too. I will experiment with em running 2 medium sized blocks instead of the 12 gluttons, mainly so I dont feel like I am wasting the cmd ability and trait ^^. 

I like the idea of hitting first in 3 places on my turn and getting -2 to hit yehtees sounds annoying in a way unexpected when facing ogres ^^

...also I want an excuse to make samurai tengu for my oni ogres.

[Unter]

On 2/5/2021 at 5:56 AM, Eorek said:

I have an ogre list I' d love to hear some opinions and hopefully make it even meaner; 

Allegiance: Ogor Mawtribes
- Mawtribe: Winterbite

Leaders
Firebelly (120)
- Lore of the Sun-Eater: Billowing Ash
Slaughtermaster (140)
- General
- Command Trait: Wintertouched
- Lore of Gutmagic: Ribcracker
Frostlord on Stonehorn (400)
- Artefact: Frostfang
- Mount Trait: Metalcruncher
Icebrow Hunter (120)

Battleline
4 x Ironguts (220)
4 x Ironguts (220)
4 x Ironguts (220)
12 x Ogor Gluttons (400)
- Clubs or Blades with Iron Fists

Units
8 x Frost Sabres (160)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 146

9 drops
 

Alright, where to start...

Firstly; the way you generally win games is by playing the scenario and I tried to make a list that can play all of them, It has enough battleline for scorched earth, a monster for both the extra points for holding stuff with a monster and a tanky hero that can go for an early objective on three places and to top it all off a large-ish unit of cats+ hunter that can do all sorta of secondaries.

Secondly; I considered the meta, and in a vacum I'd alwsys play blood gullet... however in the meta atn you generally don't get to cast spells which negates alot of the blood gullet bonuses and winterbite negates alot of the incoming damage from shooting armies, add a firebelly to the mix and you have yourself some pretty solid - to hit stack. The cats provide a screen and you should have tools to deal with alot of builds. Then you sprinkle in some 'silver bullets' to deal with stuff... msu ironguts for lumineth, ribcracker for ossiarchs etc.

Rest speaks for itself. Can take a punch and hit back even harder.

Potential flaws:

I'd sell my soul for a ten points decrease somewhere... could then drop 2 cats for a cmd point to negate those alpha bravery bombs... fitting in a 100p skal would also be super solid for that extra relic aswell(either ignore -1 rend on flosh of 1 auto dispell) however that is wishful thinking.

And this list is a 9 drop making you more often than not lose first turn priority. Shuffling the list into a tyrants gutguard would help with this, however i don't know where to find the points.

Places where I see potential savings:

1. Downgrade the flosh to a huskard 80p(... 3+save though...)

2. Drop two cats 40p (below 6 cats they stop being able to preform their role)

3. Drop three gluttons 40p(9 could probably do fine... however 3 ogres for 40p is a steal)

4. Drop the entire cat squad and hunter and bring in a gnoblar screen. 180p

5. Drop the flosh entierly 400p (... tyrant+gutguard+ unit of gnoblars right there)

Sorry for the wall of text! But felt I needed to share some of my thoughts aswell as posting the list...also how do ya'lls feel about yhetees?

 

 

I like it, but if you are looking to save points I'd drop the Firebelly. As you said there is a lot of anti-casting out there, and even without it his spell goes off on a 7.

[Eorek]

2 hours ago, Unter said:

I like it, but if you are looking to save points I'd drop the Firebelly. As you said there is a lot of anti-casting out there, and even without it his spell goes off on a 7.

He is an absolute game changer though when facing shooting, he can basically negate a doubleturn of shooting once he gets his spell cast +winterbite bonus.

He is gonna have a hard time vs some armies, but the times he won the game for me when KO and changehost makes me go first and face a potential doubleturn has earned his 120p in the list.

[Lord Krungharr]

I gotta make another Firebelly, just too neat of a model not to have one.  But here's my custom Slaughtermaster vs one of my Bray Shaman.  Who doesn't like goat?

The heating burner on the back is 'gas' powered.

Edited February 13, 2021 by Lord Krungharr

[Kadeton]

On 1/31/2021 at 12:13 PM, Tzeentch said:

Is the all mounted Beastclaw list interesting to play? I love all the models but it seems like it might be a bit of a dull army, tactics and strategy wise.

It's certainly simple and straightforward. I'd hesitate to say "boring", because running over enemies with monster trucks hasn't gotten old for me yet and I've been playing them for years now.

But yes, the only real tactical decision you'll make while playing is "Who gets smashed this turn?" It's a fun decision to make, but if you're looking for tactical variety you're not going to find it with the Beastclaws.

[Eorek]

On 2/13/2021 at 11:25 PM, Lord Krungharr said:

I gotta make another Firebelly, just too neat of a model not to have one. 

Got sent this really sweet firebelly in a modeltrade. Really like the ideas of firebellies being monks wandering around spreading the good word!(Yes... the word is fire)