AoS 2 - Ogor Mawtribe Discussion

[Beastmaster]

On 11/7/2020 at 7:58 PM, Jmason said:

I can’t find Alegulzler gargant as an  allies option in Warscroll Builder. Are aleguzlers still a match play legal allies option? Or did that change with the release of SOB?

The Aleguzzler is out of the Warscoll Builder for Ogors for a really long time now, way before SoB came. I thought they’d just update points and Warscroll, but it seems they are gone for good.

Hey, it’s not like this single decision unnecessarily destroyed the fluff of my army. 😓

[Jmason]

40 minutes ago, Beastmaster said:

The Aleguzzler is out of the Warscoll Builder for Ogors for a really long time now, way before SoB came. I thought they’d just update points and Warscroll, but it seems they are gone for good.

Hey, it’s not like this single decision unnecessarily destroyed the fluff of my army. 😓

Thanks for the update. I was planning on adding 2 to my list for fun. Oh well, guess I’ll stick to in faction choices. It’s too bad they removed the option. Changes that invalidate allies options outside of a new battle tome are a bit frustrating. I guess I need to paint faster in the future and relegate the AGs to my Gloomspites.

[Ganigumo]

@Jmason @Beastmaster This sounds like a mistake in warscroll builder. Aleguzzler gargants still exist, and they never updated the allies table for ogors so they're still available as allies, although it's still the gloomspite version of the warscroll.

[Jmason]

4 minutes ago, Ganigumo said:

@Jmason @Beastmaster This sounds like a mistake in warscroll builder. Aleguzzler gargants still exist, and they never updated the allies table for ogors so they're still available as allies, although it's still the gloomspite version of the warscroll.

Awesome! Thanks!!

[Beastmaster]

Happy to stand corrected 😄

[rosa]

On 11/8/2020 at 6:53 PM, Gutlord said:

This is what I did against a unit of 40 witch aelves......killed 10 in the end with iron fists but that's the best possible scenario to use them. I guess if you have 120 pts to spare and you want just 3 gluttons to sit on an objective then the ironfists make more sense but any units of 6 or more gluttons.....I'd take the double weapons and hit the enemy hard first.

Can you still make the save roll although possible higher rend would negate the armour save?

[rosa]

On 11/8/2020 at 6:53 PM, Gutlord said:

 

Doublepost

Edited November 11, 2020 by rosa
Doublepost

[Kramer]

11 minutes ago, rosa said:

Can you still make the save roll although possible higher rend would negate the armour save?

Yes. You roll saves. Then you do re-rolls. Then you apply modifiers and check for unmodified roll effects. 
 

so you are supposedly to always roll. But usually you skip it if you know nothing will come of it. 

same goes the other. That order is always the order of things. 
so say for some incredible reason your gluttons with two hand weapons are -10 to hit.  You still roll attacks, do your re-rolls. And then you apply modifiers and check for unmodified 6’s... and every 6 is still two hits despite being minus 10 To Hit 😁

(and don’t forget the rules of 1 in this example) 

[Sauriv]

2 minutes ago, Kramer said:

Yes. You roll saves. Then you do re-rolls. Then you apply modifiers and check for unmodified roll effects. 

Somtimes people rearrange the order in their head to make it easier for them to think which easily can cause problems thinking "oh with - 2 rend i need to then roll 6s" *rolls*. Leading to not knowing the difference between "reroll failed hit rolls" and "reroll hit rolls"

So by learning the right sequence by heart you know that the dice only fails at the end and that you have the opportunity to do stuff beforehand. 

[Kramer]

19 minutes ago, Sauriv said:

Somtimes people rearrange the order in their head to make it easier for them to think which easily can cause problems thinking "oh with - 2 rend i need to then roll 6s" *rolls*. Leading to not knowing the difference between "reroll failed hit rolls" and "reroll hit rolls"

So by learning the right sequence by heart you know that the dice only fails at the end and that you have the opportunity to do stuff beforehand. 

absolutely. 

One of the key things why I think leadbelchers are in a great spot between Ironguts and Gluttons is their rend. 

Just to elaborate for those who don't realise this, because of the order of re-rolls and modifiers this happens:

Lets's say my rend 1 leadbelcher hits and wounds your Liberator 2 times. The stormcast player rolls a 1 and 2 for his save. Now he first does the re-rolls, meaning the 2 does NOT become a 1 at this point. So the Stormcast player only re-rolls the 1. 
That 2 he rolled has no chance of becoming a succesful save and the liberator is dead. 

Which can make such a difference in the long run. That's why I like to take one unit of 12 gluttons and one unit of 10 leadbelchers so I have the bodies on the board. But still have a bit of flexibility with their rend.

[Gutlord]

9 hours ago, rosa said:

Can you still make the save roll although possible higher rend would negate the armour save?

Yes you can mate....I've checked out loads of sources because this question was on my mind but it says here in the core rule book you CAN attempt to make a save roll if you need a 7+.....which you would with a glutton taking a -2 tend or more 

[rosa]

But the core rules are saying that you can only make the save roll when modifiers make the save possible... 

I don't get it... When the rend is high enough or you don't have modifier, the save will become impossible and no roll needs to be done.

Maybe I misunderstand this.

Edited November 11, 2020 by rosa

[Gutlord]

6 minutes ago, rosa said:

But the core rules are saying that you can only make the save roll when modifiers make the save possible... 

I don't get it... When the rend is high enough or you don't have modifier, the save will become impossible and no roll needs to be done.

Maybe I misunderstand this.

I think it's all in the wording mate.....it basically says you dont need to make a save roll, but you can if you want to (at least that's how i read it)

Perhaps GW has published an FAQ on this topic.....surly thier are other armies that have a similar ability to this

[Ganigumo]

@rosa @Gutlord Modifiers are applied after the roll, so if a unit with a 5+ save is attacked by something with rend 2, you still make the save, with the unmodified save being what is on the die roll, then apply the -2 afterwards. Ironfists trigger on unmodified save rolls of 6. You can still make save rolls with a save of '-' but it is usually pointless, you would need a positive modifier for it to be worth anything.

This has some interesting interactions like:
"Reroll failed save rolls", you only get to reroll when the unmodified roll is a fail, not when the save fails, so a unit with a 4+ save against rend 1 would only reroll save rolls of 1, 2, or 3.

"Reroll save rolls of 1", you can only roll when the unmodified roll is a 1

 

Ethereal ignores the modifier, and rules that change the actual save characteristic are very rare (the only thing I can think of is an anvilgard spell that changes the save characteristic of a unit to '-')

 

Skipping pointless save rolls isn't a rule, it's just done for expediency's sake. If you can benefit from the save roll in some way you can still do it.

[Gutlord]

10 hours ago, Ganigumo said:

@rosa @Gutlord Modifiers are applied after the roll, so if a unit with a 5+ save is attacked by something with rend 2, you still make the save, with the unmodified save being what is on the die roll, then apply the -2 afterwards. Ironfists trigger on unmodified save rolls of 6. You can still make save rolls with a save of '-' but it is usually pointless, you would need a positive modifier for it to be worth anything.

This has some interesting interactions like:
"Reroll failed save rolls", you only get to reroll when the unmodified roll is a fail, not when the save fails, so a unit with a 4+ save against rend 1 would only reroll save rolls of 1, 2, or 3.

"Reroll save rolls of 1", you can only roll when the unmodified roll is a 1

 

Ethereal ignores the modifier, and rules that change the actual save characteristic are very rare (the only thing I can think of is an anvilgard spell that changes the save characteristic of a unit to '-')

 

Skipping pointless save rolls isn't a rule, it's just done for expediency's sake. If you can benefit from the save roll in some way you can still do it.

That makes more sense now, cheers mate.....so basically roll to save as normal, then apply the rend and determine the damage 👍😉

[James101]

14 hours ago, Gutlord said:

That makes more sense now, cheers mate.....so basically roll to save as normal, then apply the rend and determine the damage 👍😉

Yeah the point is that the rend is actually applied to the dice roll rather than as a modifier to the save. So if you have a save of 5+ and a tend of -1 what this is actually doing is meaning rolls of 5 fail (because they become 5-1=4). But because you apply the rend to the dice roll, you’re still entitled to the roll itself

[Bayul]

I bought 4 SC boxes today and would like to build a Boulderhead / Eurlbad list. Something like this is pretty common, right?

Allegiance: Ogor Mawtribes
- Mawtribe: Boulderhead

Leaders
Frostlord on Stonehorn (400)
- General
- Command Trait: Lord of Beasts
- Artefact: Brand of the Svard
- Mount Trait: Black Clatterhorn
Frostlord on Stonehorn (400)
- Mount Trait: Metalcruncher
Huskard on Stonehorn (320)
- Blood Vulture
- Artefact: Skullshards of Dragaar
- Mount Trait: Old Granitetooth

Battleline
4 x Mournfang Pack (280)
- Culling Clubs or Prey Hackers with Iron Fists
2 x Mournfang Pack (140)
- Culling Clubs or Prey Hackers with Iron Fists
Stonehorn Beastriders (300)

Battalions
Eurlbad (140)

Total: 1980 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 86
 

[PlasticCraic]

@Bayul yep, that's a pretty standard competitive build.  I've personally taken Alvagr over Skullshards (although I do like both), and I run 3x minimum Mournfang instead of a 4, but that's just personal preference. 

It's a really strong army, and great fun to play too.

[CorvoMaltes]

Hi, I´m playing 2000 points against gloompsite, any tips? I´m playing on tabletop so any kind of crazy combinations is possible. I-m not lokking for OP builds, just general tips against hordes.

[Sauriv]

9 minutes ago, CorvoMaltes said:

Hi, I´m playing 2000 points against gloompsite, any tips? I´m playing on tabletop so any kind of crazy combinations is possible. I-m not lokking for OP builds, just general tips against hordes.

Gloomspite has generally bad saves so gluttons should be able to get their damage through quite easily. 

Bloodgullet is more focused on gluttons and magic, giving you buffed up gluttons ready to smash. 

Do you know what your friend is focusing on in the gloomspite list? Moonclan, spiderfang, troggoths? 

As an example, one of moonclans strengths is bodies to control objectives, so our stonehorns can be good to help counter that. 

[Sartxac]

Is Anyione afraid with the future existence of miniatures like primarchs or c'tan for AOS in every army? Miniature that only can receive 3 wounds as maximum for turn.

This tipe a miniatures are a big counter for all behemot lists as Boulderhead. In 40k all armies these type of miniatures are slowly and every army has enough misile attacks to do this damage in the shoot phase, avoiding the melee with this heroes. 

Edited November 19, 2020 by Sartxac

[Beastmaster]

2 hours ago, Sartxac said:

Is Anyione afraid with the future existence of miniatures like primarchs or c'tan for AOS in every army? Miniature that only can receive 3 wounds as maximum for turn.

This tipe a miniatures are a big counter for all behemot lists as Boulderhead. In 40k all armies these type of miniatures are slowly and every army has enough misile attacks to do this damage in the shoot phase, avoiding the melee with this heroes. 

Afraid? No. Meta will always shift, and the Ogor range is thankfully one of the more complete ones out there, with many options. Maybe then belchers and blasters and thundertusks will become more interesting? Or tarpitting, then running around with our fast units?

Edited November 19, 2020 by Beastmaster

[Bademeister]

@Bayul jep, your list is pretty solid. My experience with Traits and Artifact is not to overextend on one specific model. Your General has the super hard artifact and the (maybe best) mountrait. If i would be your opponent, i would try to focus this one down first. leaving your other guys with the not so good options. Maybe you try to spread them.

An other advice: choose chamon as your realm. Plate of Perfect Protection is awesome. Ignoring Rend -1 is nearly ethereal.

[rover87]

Hi all! Im new here but I have a history with warhammer back in 2008 somewhere i think. Damn im old. Anyway, some friends started playing and it got me interested in warhammer again. I found my old army of Ogors which consists of:

18   Glutton warriors
8    Ironguts
4    Leadbelchers
2    Butchers
1    Hunter with 2 sabres
1    Tyrant
1    Gorger

Im disgusted of my painting so im stripping everything from paint and i will start over.

My question is, how is my army now with AoS? A lot has changed so im doing some research to get familiar again. Any tips? I found the warscroll builder but i dont even know where to start hehe.

Hope you guys can help me out.

Kind regards

[Gwendar]

Hey everyone, just thought I'd pop in and say I've finally settled Mawtribes as the next army project. Played against this list in Butchers Buffet GT and fell in love with it so decided to give it a go on a 3-rounder this weekend and went 2-1 (probably would've got 3-0 but losing priority twice in a row makes games difficult to come back from😅) so shoutout to Stuart who's been running this:
 

Spoiler

Allegiance: Ogor Mawtribes
- Mawtribe: Bloodgullet

Leaders
Tyrant (160)
- General
- Command Trait: Nice Drop of the Red Stuff!
- Artefact: Splatter-cleaver
- Big Name: Fateseeker
Slaughtermaster (140)
- Artefact: Bloodrock Talisman
- Lore of Gutmagic: Ribcracker
- Bloodgullet 2nd Spell: Blood Feast

Battleline
8 x Ironguts (440)
8 x Ironguts (440)
4 x Ironguts (220)
12 x Ogor Gluttons (400)
- Pairs of Clubs or Blades

Battalions
Tyrant's Gutguard (120)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Extra Command Point (50)

Total: 1970 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 2
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 143

After underestimating them myself.. I quickly found out that Gluttons smacking a Ribcracker target with +1 attack and wound RR's can absolutely throw out absurd damage. Vs KO I think only 4 of them managed to kill ~10 Endrinriggers.. but I watched Stuart's 8-9 on my last game do around 50+ wounds to a unit of Horrors. I think everyone wants to go after the Ironguts in the list, and rightfully so.. but don't underestimate the Gluttons either.

Excitedly putting in my battleforce box order asap and maybe even 3 SC boxes for the BCR list.. glad to be joining in with the Ogres and I'll be sure to do plenty of batreps with them.