AoS 2 - Ogor Mawtribe Discussion

[Sartxac]

15 minutes ago, Kramer said:

What allows it to do a second prayer? I thought you can still only take two, not pray twice. 

Also you can only kill any important 5WOUND hero in two rounds. Because you ain’t killing important big heroes. Which is not impressive for 350pts monster.

regarding the tyrant. Yeah I agree pricy. But still like you say in gutbuster he plays a role so that’s fine. For a new model it deserved a bit more, but fine. 

You could kill an hero of 5 wound or 8 wound. 

The huskard can do two different prayers because we can read:

In your hero phase, this model can chant one of the following prayers. If it does so, pick one of the prayers and then make a prayer roll by rolling a dice. Add 1 to the roll for each other friendly Thundertusk within 18" of this model. On a 1-3, the prayer is not answered. On a 4+, the prayer is answered.

 Each BEASTCLAW RAIDERS PRIEST can know 1 prayer in addition to any other prayers they know. In your hero phase, each of them can chant 1 prayer

I understand 1+1, we can do 2 prayers (one between the prayers that already knew and the extra of the book)... But if a monster of 300 p only can do 1 prayer...

Edited July 20, 2020 by Sartxac

[Ganigumo]

1 minute ago, Kramer said:

A support hero that does its prayer at 4+ is like gambling by flipping a coin. In theory it’s shooting is nice (don’t forget the extra MW for the bird) but like you said. There is no real good target for it unless, again, you gamble to spike it’s rolls. 

i just feel it has no role to play sadly. The only way to change it is to either drop it’s points to a spammable level. Which might be now. Or to change its warscroll to give it a role in the army. My vote would be to double down on the horde killer. Give it an attack for every model within 1” or something. 

if you take thundertusks in multiples it gets better at praying, although there are definitely diminishing returns on huskards as you can only pray each of the lore prayers 1 anyways, and 1 heals yetis.

 I'm pretty sure the reason it was written this way was to stop it from sniping heroes. My suggestion would be to make it roll to hit normally, but still cause mortals if it hits, so heroes get a bit of extra protection from look out sir/cover/etc. If we kept the table, made it a roll to hit instead of just a 6+, we could make it hit on a 4+ and would go from 2/4/6 average damage to 6/8/10 damage, but our opponent could try to mitigate it for their fragile heroes.

 

also while we're at it lets add 2 to everwinter rolls for thundertusks at all times.

 

1 minute ago, Kramer said:

What allows it to do a second prayer? I thought you can still only take two, not pray twice. 

Also you can only kill any important 5WOUND hero in two rounds. Because you ain’t killing important big heroes. Which is not impressive for 350pts monster.

regarding the tyrant. Yeah I agree pricy. But still like you say in gutbuster he plays a role so that’s fine. For a new model it deserved a bit more, but fine. 

Each priest can attempt to chant 1 EVERWINTER PRAYER that it know in your hero phase. The warscroll for the Huskard on Thundertusk says it may attempt to chant one of the following prayers in your hero phase.
So each Huskard on thundertusk can chant 1 of the "lore" prayers, and 1 of the warscroll prayers each hero phase.
You may only attempt to chant each EVERWINTER PRAYER once per hero phase though.

[Kramer]

10 hours ago, Ganigumo said:

you take thundertusks in multiples it gets better at praying, although there are definitely diminishing returns on huskards as you can only pray each of the lore prayers 1 anyways, and 1 heals yetis.

 I'm pretty sure the reason it was written this way was to stop it from sniping heroes. My suggestion would be to make it roll to hit normally, but still cause mortals if it hits, so heroes get a bit of extra protection from look out sir/cover/etc. If we kept the table, made it a roll to hit instead of just a 6+, we could make it hit on a 4+ and would go from 2/4/6 average damage to 6/8/10 damage, but our opponent could try to mitigate it for their fragile her

That would definitely work as well to make them useful. makes them a gun platform but that’s a specific role in beastclaws as well. 
But regarding the prayers boost. That works on paper not in game. Because not only do you have to pay more (and in big increments) you then need to keep a third of your army right next to each and still you fail 1 in three or 1 in six depending on the prayer. 
 

10 hours ago, Ganigumo said:

11 hours ago, Kramer said:

 

Each priest can attempt to chant 1 EVERWINTER PRAYER that it know in your hero phase. The warscroll for the Huskard on Thundertusk says it may attempt to chant one of the following prayers in your hero phase.
So each Huskard on thundertusk can chant 1 of the "lore" prayers, and 1 of the warscroll prayers each hero phase.
You may only attempt to chant each EVERWINTER PRAYER once per hero phase though.

That’s a really good argument. Still not worth it on a 4+ but a big difference. I always understood it as one prayer, but this makes more sense. 

10 hours ago, Sartxac said:

You could kill an hero of 5 wound or 8 wound. 

Okay, two turns to kill a 8 wound hero... still not impressive for such an expensive model. And then it still requires you to get the prayer off... twice. 
 

but to both of you. I love the support you give that model. I think it looks better so I magnetised mine. And will definitely field it in narrative games because it’s cooler, no pun intended. 
and I’ll pray for a better warscroll... but on a 4+ it might take awhile  

[Arcce]

Huskard on TT is pretty good now! It neatly fits into the 6 Stonehorn list, replacing a normal SH. This now allows a Monster List to have some Support via movement buffing, healing or improving to Wound. Not to mention the Fight Last mount trait! Very good in a combat heavy list.

Also interestingly, was mathing out stuff and found out that Mournfang are better than Ironguts. Obviously Ironguts take buffs better but that needs the extra investment of a Butcher or SM who may fail to buff them.

MF, especially in Eurlbad with Clubs and Ironfists just dish out MWs left, right and centre. Taken in min squads you can have them everywhere and still fighting effectively as well as maximising the pistol from the Leader.

I discovered this after I had a few games where it felt like my Mournfang were the MvPs more than my Stonehorns.

[Lord Krungharr]

I was wondering if I need to get some Mournfangs.  Sounds like a yes.  Eurlbad seems solid.   

I feel like the Thundertusk should just do better damage with its tusks.  I mean LOOK AT THEM!   Better combat prowess there would make up for not changing the icy breath.   Also they should pray better.  But at least the TT Huskards don’t suffer MW on a 1 like many other priests.    

Im gonna build the new Tyrant this week and my Leadbelchers and a Slaughtermaster.   I think the Tyrant if he had the faster Big Name and the trait where he moves 4” when hungry could make him quite good.   He can’t fly, but whenever I used  my Doombull with thermalrider cloak that extra  4” made him much much scarier cuz he could get there.   And Tyrant can whoop at least as much butt as a Doombull.  

[Arcce]

I really like the Tyrant and want to make him work, possibly even 2 in a list. 

Finally starting my kitbashed Gutbuster project which will mean I can have more variety. Just need to get some bases and boxes delivered and I will be ready to run this list:

Allegiance: Ogor Mawtribes
- Mawtribe: Bloodgullet

Leaders
Slaughtermaster (140)
- General
- Command Trait: Nice Drop of the Red Stuff!
- Lore of Gutmagic: Blood Feast
- Bloodgullet 2nd Spell: Ribcracker
Slaughtermaster (140)
- Lore of Gutmagic: Molten Entrails
- Bloodgullet 2nd Spell: Greasy Deluge
Frostlord on Stonehorn (400)
- Artefact: Splatter-cleaver
- Mount Trait: Black Clatterhorn

Battleline
8 x Ironguts (440)
8 x Ironguts (440)
8 x Ironguts (440)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 123
 

Edited July 22, 2020 by Arcce

[rosa]

Guys really? Are you all sure?

Maybe he knows one additional prayer, but can he really cast 2? The text indicates that he can only cast one prayer...

[Sartxac]

29 minutes ago, rosa said:

Guys really? Are you all sure?

Maybe he knows one additional prayer, but can he really cast 2? The text indicates that he can only cast one prayer...

Yes, i'm sure. This was also discussed before:

 

[rosa]

Thanx a lot...

Although I don't have better arguments, I still disagree. Maybe it will get faqed later.

 

 

[James101]

44 minutes ago, rosa said:

Thanx a lot...

Although I don't have better arguments, I still disagree. Maybe it will get faqed later.

 

 

It’s pretty clear to be honest. The allegiance abilities say all BCR priests “know and may chant one Everwinter prayer” (or words to that effect). The Huskard on TT warscroll then says “knows and may chant one of the following prayers“ and then lists Winters Endurance and Winters Strength. 
 

So you can chant one everwinter (which are in the allegiance abilities) and one warscroll prayer. To be clear, you couldn’t chant both the warscroll prayers (for example)

Edited July 22, 2020 by James101

[Arcce]

Yeah, believe me this has been covered time and again with priests. specifically Slaughterpriests who can chant their Lore prayer, their Warscroll prayer AND their Judgement prayer.

If we had "endless prayers" like Khorne (and Fyreslayers?) TT would be really good because it would be able to pray 3 times.

[Charly2912]

Ogre endless spells could be very cool and unique 

1 winter themed endless prayer for the huskards 

1 fire themed endless spell for the firebelly

And 1 maw like for the butchers 

[Ganigumo]

7 hours ago, Charly2912 said:

Ogre endless spells could be very cool and unique 

1 winter themed endless prayer for the huskards 

1 fire themed endless spell for the firebelly

And 1 maw like for the butchers 

At this point I'd be happy with a box of Destruction endless spells, with hand, foot, and maw of gork that can be cast by any destruction wizards.

[KriticalKhan]

I can't be the only one that considers Ravenak's Jaws to be the unofficial ogre spell, right? Just look at the damn thing.

Also, it's fluff says it was a Butcher who learned how to cast it first, and Ravenak is 99% just a copy-pasted godbeast version of the Great Maw.

[Kramer]

On 7/24/2020 at 3:43 AM, KriticalKhan said:

I can't be the only one that considers Ravenak's Jaws to be the unofficial ogre spell, right? Just look at the damn thing.

Also, it's fluff says it was a Butcher who learned how to cast it first, and Ravenak is 99% just a copy-pasted godbeast version of the Great Maw.

Yeah you’re right in the lore it is pointed towards us. 
I just now realised I might take those jaws cut them up and put them horizontally on a base. Build it up a bit and you have a Ogor Maw endless spell. 

[Eorek]

Oni Frostlord on Stonehorn Starting to look the part! Gonna give him a samurai esque backbanner and sculpt some more on the "quilen"'s face. 
C&c appreciated!

[HostilSpike]

So I had my first game against the new Seraphon tome this weekend after a really long break and took a hard fought loss finishing 19 - 24 on Scorched Earth from GHB2020.

My List:
 

Spoiler

Allegiance: Ogor Mawtribes
- Mawtribe: Bloodgullet

Leaders
Frostlord on Stonehorn (400)
- Artefact: Splatter-cleaver
- Mount Trait: Black Clatterhorn
Butcher (140)
- Cleaver
- Artefact: Dracoline Heart
- Lore of Gutmagic: Greasy Deluge
- Bloodgullet 2nd Spell: Ribcracker
Slaughtermaster (140)
- General
- Command Trait: Nice Drop of the Red Stuff!
- Lore of Gutmagic: Blood Feast
- Bloodgullet 2nd Spell: Molten Entrails

Battleline
12 x Ogor Gluttons (400)
- Clubs or Blades with Iron Fists
8 x Ironguts (440)
4 x Leadbelchers (160)

Units
2 x Mournfang Pack (140)
- Gargant Hackers

Battalions
Goremand (140)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Balewind Vortex (40)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 135

It was a wildly uphill battle as I don't think we could have rolled a worse battleplan for my list (only 7 units with 8 objectives in play), while he had I think 11 running Coalesced. (Kroak, 3 skink characters, a carnosaur, a foot saurus hero, 2 units of saurus, 2 units of knights and a unit of skinks).

I was only 4 drops so I gave him the first turn but a positioning blunder allowed him to kill my Slaughtermaster turn 1 with buffed up Skink mortal wound shots (I'd put him just outside of Look out Sir range from the Gluttons) but other than that it was a mostly uneventful turn. I managed to run my Frostlord up and he killed a Skin hero with his charge Mortal Wounds and roughly 20 skinks in the combat while only taking a single wound in return (subsequently healed by his Splattercleaver) but my Ironguts failed a 6 inch charge (another positioning blunder, one inch further back would have allowed a command point reroll from my Butcher). My remaining units sat on objectives bringing the score to 4 - 4. 

I won the double turn, failed for again to get off Balewind then shuffled my remaining units to prepare to counter punch turn 3. The Ironguts made it in and chewed through 15+ Saurus suffering 8 wounds in return. Bad rolls left the Frostlord tied up by skinks killing only another 10ish then again healing off the return damage. His next turn really changed the battle. Between Kroak and the Skink heroes he got a load of extra command points, charged his Carnosaur into the Ironguts to reinforce his saurus and brought his second saurus unit in to further tarpit my Frostlord. In the combat phase he pumped A LOT of command points into buffing the saurus fighting the Ironguts then activated them and kiled 4 leaving the unit at 6 wounds. I swung back with the Ironguts to thin his numbers and hoped he would activate the other unit of saurus to pile in while the skinks were blocking surface area on my Frostlord. The Guts damage was negligible, as was the output from the saurus on my Stonehorn who I then activated to wipe the skin unit. This created a gap for me to retreat through next turn and get into his back line to go Hero/Objective hunting. The Carnosaur finishing off the remaining Ironguts activating his run & charge for the rest of the battle ability. End of round two scores 8 - 8. 

Sadly he got the double turn, Carnosaur got to my Frostlord and between him and the saurus they got the kill. The other saurus unit advanced to just outside my leadbelcher range and waited. On my turn I finally got off Balewind and slapped all available spells into the approaching saurus unit, only scoring a few mortals off Maw while Kroak unbound everything else. The Leadblechers scored some saurus kills with their shots and my Mournfang positioned themselves to hail Mary up the board (12 inch charge to get onto an objective held by a single skink hero), rolled an 8 so they and my Gluttons slammed into the remaining saurus stringing out to keep their objective and making sure not to pull in the Carnosaur. Combat went well with the Gluttons killing all but 1 saurus and the casualty pulled leaving the Mournfang out of combat and sadly just out of reach of piling forward into the skink hero. Score after round three 11 - 12 in his favor (I should have realized I had his objective here as the lead Mournfang was in range and counts as two units but I was too focused on wanting the double turn to charge in and burn it but ultimately that point didn't matter). I won the roll off and took the double turn. 

Thinking he would be charging his Carnosaur into my Butcher I retreated my Gluttons from the lone saurus to protect him, again stringing out to keep their objective as well. The Leadbelchers did their job whittling the approaching saurus unit and the Mournfang charged in, killed the skink hero and burnt his objective rolling 3 on the d3. On his turn his got his foot saurus hero into my Mournfang to stall them then ran and charged his Carnosaur into my Leadbelchers. It easily killed them and he burned the objective rolling a 1 but getting a plus 1 for it being a leader. End of round 4 scores were 17 - 16. 

He won the roll off and in doing so the game. The Carnosaur shredded my Butcher and burnt his objective then the lone surviving saurus ran to burn the vacant one on my far right. On my go I just retreated the Mournfang up to one of his remaining points to score some pity points ending the game at 19 - 24.

Overall it was a good game, I felt the rust from 9 months without playing in the first round but quickly got back into the swing. One thing I will note is that the army feels really weird against the army wide minus 1 damage from the Coalesced. I think in future games I'll probably try smaller units and can definitely see a Skal being the preferred battalion. 

It's probably worth noting my opponent offered to let me move my units for the first two positional blunders but I prefer to learn from my mistakes the hard way.

Edited July 27, 2020 by HostilSpike

[PlasticCraic]

Good write-up @HostilSpike, good to know you can have a bad matchup against Coalesced and still compete!

[Arcce]

Coalesced and Seraphon are a hard matchup. I have only played it once and they were new to the changes and didnt have an optimised list. 

I had to win on objectives because my damage was not enough to scratch their large units. Against them the units that shined was, Ironguts because they still had 2 dmg after reduction and Leadbelchers cause their shooting is already 1 dmg. 

I never got any spells off so butcher was a waste of points, their global denies with bonuses is just impossible for us to get through. 

I would just recommend killing their Carnosaurs asap and playing for objectives. They are just too tough for us unfortunately. 

If I had to do it again I would make a list with a HARD focus on MWs. Eurlbad mournfangs and a Huskard on TT for unbindable prayers and snowball to dent their larger units. 

Without Ethereal I am not even sure a FLoSH is completely worth it as all it will be there for is tanking and grinding through stuff slowly. 

[HostilSpike]

I think my main take away from the game is that Coalesced are a much more honest army than the previous iteration of Seraphon; no more teleporting, summoning or Skink pileout shenanigans. The loss of damage feels like it should be crippling but now that you're only killing each unit once it's not as overwhelming a disadvantage as I was expecting it to be.

Controlling the charges and not allowing units to be singled out and overwhelmed seems more important now and obviously sniping characters is an even bigger priority. We're resuming our escalation league soon so I'm really looking forward to trying out different unit mixes to see where I can squeeze out advantages.

[Lord Krungharr]

17 hours ago, Arcce said:

Coalesced and Seraphon are a hard matchup. I have only played it once and they were new to the changes and didnt have an optimised list. 

I had to win on objectives because my damage was not enough to scratch their large units. Against them the units that shined was, Ironguts because they still had 2 dmg after reduction and Leadbelchers cause their shooting is already 1 dmg. 

I never got any spells off so butcher was a waste of points, their global denies with bonuses is just impossible for us to get through. 

I would just recommend killing their Carnosaurs asap and playing for objectives. They are just too tough for us unfortunately. 

If I had to do it again I would make a list with a HARD focus on MWs. Eurlbad mournfangs and a Huskard on TT for unbindable prayers and snowball to dent their larger units. 

Without Ethereal I am not even sure a FLoSH is completely worth it as all it will be there for is tanking and grinding through stuff slowly. 

I think using the Chamon artefact on the FLoSH is the new 'almost Ethereal' relic, ignoring Rend-1.  I'm very eager to give Mawtribes a whirl soon, probably vs Beasts of Chaos or it might end up being Gloomspite, or my friend will surprise me with Nagash :p

I have a Start Collecting Beastclaw box on the way and think I'll definitely like the Mournfangs.  For the points they seem so much better than Gluttons, though I have 3x6 of those already.  

I forget, do all the Beastclaw guys generate that grip of the Everwinter or was that a battalion thing?  Gotta get all the MW we can!  I agree the Huskard on TT for prayer's sake is probably worth taking, and the Alvagrrirymnir Ancient mount trait too.  Probably will go with 3 FLoSHs and the TT Huskard w a Slaughtermaster and 3x3 Gluttons when I do the Boulderhead monster mash.  All with mount traits is awesome!

[PlasticCraic]

2 hours ago, Lord Krungharr said:

I think using the Chamon artefact on the FLoSH is the new 'almost Ethereal' relic, ignoring Rend-1. 

AKA "Inferial Amulet" 😃

[Kramig]

On 6/22/2020 at 8:54 AM, JDLIII said:

Can I get an opinion or two on how good or bad this list can be? I’m curious if I’m lacking anything or it will be able to hold its own. Thank you.

 

Allegiance: Destruction
Frostlord on Stonehorn (400)
Huskard on Stonehorn (320)
- Chaintrap
Icebrow Hunter (120)
4 x Mournfang Pack (280)
- Gargant Hackers
2 x Mournfang Pack (140)
- Gargant Hackers
4 x Frost Sabres (80)
4 x Frost Sabres (80)
Stonehorn Beastriders (300)
Eurlbad (140)
Skal (100)

Total: 1960 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 2
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 96
 

you can have only 1 extra command point

[Kramer]

8 minutes ago, Kramig said:

you can have only 1 extra command point

You can only buy one extra command point. With two battalions you start the game with two command points. 

Edited July 29, 2020 by Kramer

[Kramig]

ops sorry, I thought in the list you place only what you buy 😔