AoS 2 - Ogor Mawtribe Discussion

[Tropical Ghost General]

@MKsmash cheers for the help. Not being able to test the lists is tricky.

I might swap out the CP for pendulum. It's a good guarantee for mortals. 

[MKsmash]

3 minutes ago, Tropical Ghost General said:

@MKsmash cheers for the help. Not being able to test the lists is tricky.

I might swap out the CP for pendulum. It's a good guarantee for mortals. 

Happy to be able to help! I agree it is difficult to not be able to test lists. Thankfully, I have a family who is willing to play Warhammer with me, though I think they get sick of fighting me 😂

[Kramer]

Horrible pictures but I managed to magnetise them. and get everything ready for priming. 

[Jmason]

Did anyone else notice the absence of the large gut plate from a previous rumor engine during today’s gargant reveal? Could this mean a new over tyrant could be on the way?

[Kramer]

30 minutes ago, Jmason said:

Did anyone else notice the absence of the large gut plate from a previous rumor engine during today’s gargant reveal? Could this mean a new over tyrant could be on the way?

Probably one of the bazillion bits they promised on the sprues tho  

Never would be happier to be wrong and for you to be right 

[Kugane]

2 hours ago, Jmason said:

Did anyone else notice the absence of the large gut plate from a previous rumor engine during today’s gargant reveal? Could this mean a new over tyrant could be on the way?

I thought i saw it on the arm of the pictured gargant. Check his wrist.

Edited April 18, 2020 by Kugane

[Jmason]

7 minutes ago, Kugane said:

I thought i saw it on the arm of the pictured gargant. Check his wrist.

Yep, good catch!

[Pitloze]

Ogors can ally Gargants (until GHB2020 maybe changes that). Gonna be interesting how much points the Sons are going to be.

[DestructionKev]

I will definitivly buy one of this "Gatebreakers" to ally in to my Ogors :) 

[Latty]

I've been debating with myself on Gorgers vs Hunter/Sabres for deepstriking purposes. My goal is trying to take out a Slann in a local meta with a lot of Seraphon players. I'm wondering people's experience who have tried both and what they think.

Tribewise, I'm running Bloodgullet. For 240 points, you can take 3 Gorgers or a Hunter and 6 Sabres. The Gorgers have to charge 9" when dropped, but they can reroll. The Sabres get one shot at the charge, but get a +3, which is pretty huge. Gorgers will have 12 3+/3+/-/2 attacks, as well as 3 3+/3+/-1/D3 attacks, vs the Frost Sabres 18 (24 with CA) 4+/3+/-1/1 attacks. Alternatively I've considered taking 2 Gorgers and Cogs to help the charge. My thought is that the Gorgers are less likely to make the charge, but if they do, they're much more likely to kill the target than the Sabres.

 

Thoughts?

Edited April 20, 2020 by Latty

[Dejnar]

Fellow Ogors. 

Has anyone had any success with Underguts? Im about 50/50 in my matches and was wondering if anyone has a functional list to share? 

[Grudgebearer]

Hey guys,

Im looking to start a second army and decided to go with the Ogors

I‘ve read quite a bit about them so far and now my question is which direction to take, I definitely want to run at least 2 stonehorns since they are the most awesome looking unit in the whole range. I saw some lists with ironguts and frost Sabres alongside the stonehorns and some other lists without stonehorns and some gluttons instead.

I am a competitive player and therefore looking for the strongest builds.

Any tips which route to go, either frostsabres With Skal or Gluttons or something different?

thanks in advance for your help

[Zorki]

Hello Grudgebearer,

Boulderhead's list who work in competitive tournament are very similar.

 

Someone take Eurlbad, someone not.

The actual competitive list i recommand for you (if you want to go for 2 FoS) are : 

Boulderhead 

 

Hero :

- FoS (Ethereal amulet + Metalcruncher trait)

- FoS (Brand of the Svard + Black Catterhorns trait)

- Hunter (general-Lord of Beast)

- Butcher or Slaughtermaster (depend what you need) The two are good.

 

Units : 

4 or 6 frost sabre (ambushing with the hunter)

2 x 2 or/and 2x4 frost sabre for screen-taking objectif (that depend what you want again)

1 units of 12 gluttons or 8 ironguts (same has i say before... Depend what you need)

Endless spell :

Balewind vortex 

 

This is a classic build, but you can already go for Eurlbad with 2x2 mournfang pack and switch 1 FoS into a HoS.

In my opinion, we don't have a tier list who stomp everything. Fyreslayer are really strong agains us, same for Tzeentch (they can snipe our FoS). 

 

[Grudgebearer]

Thanks a lot for your tips, I actually lean towards a frost Sabre’s build

[Kramer]

20 hours ago, Dejnar said:

Fellow Ogors. 

Has anyone had any success with Underguts? Im about 50/50 in my matches and was wondering if anyone has a functional list to share? 

Two out of three but for now only in smaller games because I haven't painted enough and am already proxying too much. Feels very much  like a area denial list instead of a smash list. It's fun how different the list feels. 

You any thoughts on it? I love 10 Ogor leadbealcher units. And I don't think I'll be going for a fourth Ironblaster. 

My list I played was last was the one below. But no game fully the same. Played the first two without Hunter and Cats, but I missed them too much. 2K list will probably be this but with 20 Gnoblars and 10 more leadbelchers. Or maybe get a Balewind in there.

List
2x Ironblaster 240
Tyrant 160 - Underguts Trait - Trophy Rack
4 Ironguts 220
All in a Tyrant's Gutgaurd 120
10 Leadbelchers 400
Butcher 140
Hunter 120 - Blast Keg
4 Cats 80
Total 1480

 

 

[MKsmash]

7 hours ago, Grudgebearer said:

Hey guys,

Im looking to start a second army and decided to go with the Ogors

I‘ve read quite a bit about them so far and now my question is which direction to take, I definitely want to run at least 2 stonehorns since they are the most awesome looking unit in the whole range. I saw some lists with ironguts and frost Sabres alongside the stonehorns and some other lists without stonehorns and some gluttons instead.

I am a competitive player and therefore looking for the strongest builds.

Any tips which route to go, either frostsabres With Skal or Gluttons or something different?

thanks in advance for your help

Stonehorns are definitely Mawtribes' best unit. Even taking 4 of them is good.

2 FoS and 4 SBR could be good!

Ironguts are also fantastic, expensive points-wise but very worth it. I have not found much success with Sabres and Hunters, but other people definitely have.

Gluttons are very good. They hit pretty well, and units of 12 are great walls of meat at 48 wounds!

You may want to take a butcher or slaughtermaster so you can cast Molten Entrails, but he is not necessary for a BCR based list.

[Myaori]

I had an extra tyrant so I turned him into a butcher so as to avoid resin

[Gdead909]

On 4/24/2020 at 9:57 PM, Myaori said:

I had an extra tyrant so I turned him into a butcher so as to avoid resin

Sweet I just picked ogres and I will have 3 feast of bone boxes coming so I will be doing the same thing. Glad to see it can be done!

[Kimbo]

Hi! I've been theory crafting some lists and would like some input! Would mean alot 👏 

 

List 1: 

(Bloodgullet)

Tyrant 

Butcher 

Slaughtermaster 

 

12x Gluttons 

12x Gluttons 

8x Ledbelchers 

20x Gnoblars

20x Gnoblars 

Battalion: Goremand 

Balewind Vortex 

 

List 2 

(Bloodgullet) 

Butcher 

Slaughtermaster 

Hunter 

 

12x Gluttons 

8x Ironguts 

10x Ledbelchers 

12x Sabers (Not sure how to split?) 

Battalion: Skal 

Balewind Vortex 

 

Please share your thoughts. Do they have potential? Would you tweak them? If so, how? 

 

Thx in advance! 

 

[MKsmash]

2 hours ago, Kimbo said:

Hi! I've been theory crafting some lists and would like some input! Would mean alot 👏 

 

List 1: 

(Bloodgullet)

Tyrant 

Butcher 

Slaughtermaster 

 

12x Gluttons 

12x Gluttons 

8x Ledbelchers 

20x Gnoblars

20x Gnoblars 

Battalion: Goremand 

Balewind Vortex 

 

List 2 

(Bloodgullet) 

Butcher 

Slaughtermaster 

Hunter 

 

12x Gluttons 

8x Ironguts 

10x Ledbelchers 

12x Sabers (Not sure how to split?) 

Battalion: Skal 

Balewind Vortex 

 

Please share your thoughts. Do they have potential? Would you tweak them? If so, how? 

 

Thx in advance! 

 

These are looking pretty good, especially the big blocks of Gluttons!

However, I do have a critique that applies to both lists. Leadbelchers are very bad.

Their shooting attack is super unreliable and end up being better in melee, in which case you may as well just take Gluttons. 

I think I would go with the second list, as it has Ironguts, which are Mawtribes' second best unit (Frostlord on Stonehorn being the best). They hit extremely hard. I've wiped out units of 40 Clanrats in one blow! Highly recommend them.

[Kramer]

1 hour ago, MKsmash said:

Leadbelchers are very bad.

Their shooting attack is super unreliable and end up being better in melee, in which case you may as well just take Gluttons. 

I very much disagree with this. So take and test both arguments and see what works for you. 
leadbelchers arent good shooters for their points. That’s true. But with their rend they are better than gluttons in many situations. (Remember re-roll fails happens before applying the rend). 
So far for me 10 leadbelchers has been very good in combination with 12 gluttons. It gives you options. Something that can reach of screens and if need be can reach out from an objective. 
so don’t play them as shooters but the same as your gluttons except get them after re-rolling save/high save enemies .

so for me a second big unit of gluttons has never felt like a good choice while 10 leadbelchers always paid for their points. 

and yes for footsloggin  combat punch nothing beats ironguts. But those 10 leadbelchers will do around 20 wounds without shooting against those clanrats as well  

For me list 2 gives you the most options and would have my vote. Although personally I wouldn’t go for a skal but a Goremand. Makes the slaughtermaster a  more reliable buff piece. Does mean dropping 2 sabres. So 6 and 4 division? 
That’s pretty much my list which has been great fun and pretty successful so far. 

[MKsmash]

1 hour ago, Kramer said:

I very much disagree with this. So take and test both arguments and see what works for you. 
leadbelchers arent good shooters for their points. That’s true. But with their rend they are better than gluttons in many situations. (Remember re-roll fails happens before applying the rend). 
So far for me 10 leadbelchers has been very good in combination with 12 gluttons. It gives you options. Something that can reach of screens and if need be can reach out from an objective. 
so don’t play them as shooters but the same as your gluttons except get them after re-rolling save/high save enemies .

so for me a second big unit of gluttons has never felt like a good choice while 10 leadbelchers always paid for their points. 

and yes for footsloggin  combat punch nothing beats ironguts. But those 10 leadbelchers will do around 20 wounds without shooting against those clanrats as well  

Lets do some math. In melee combat, against a 2+ save, a unit of 10 Leadbelchers does 6.222 points of damage. A unit of 12 gluttons does 5.481. This is the only case in melee combat where Leadbelchers do more.
3+ save
Leadbelchers - 9.333
Gluttons - 10.963

4+ save

Leadbelchers - 12.444

Gluttons - 16.444
5+

Leadbelchers - 15.556

Gluttons  - 21.926

6+

Leadbelchers - 18.667

Gluttons - 27.407

These calculations were done without the Gluttons' "6s count as 2 hits instead of one" ability. Clearly, Gluttons are superior in melee combat. Now, it comes down to shooting, which we already know is unreliable and meh.
Now, you can get 8 more wounds in a 12 Glutton unit for the same amount of points as 10 belchers. If I'm already treating them like Gluttons, what's the point of just not taking the actual, superior, Gluttons?
And those small 40 more points for the Ironguts take out 20 more Clanrats. Though, to be fair, Clanrats are not particularly difficult to kill with any unit😉

Sorry, if this comes off as snarky, but I have had very poor results with Leadbelchers whereas Gluttons have always worked out for me.

[Kramer]

4 hours ago, MKsmash said:

Sorry, if this comes off as snarky, but I have had very poor results with Leadbelchers whereas Gluttons have always worked out for me.

Not Snarky at all. First off, they are a utility unit and they have always worked well for me. So the maths isn't that important, but you did leave out the re-rolls on the save. Big part of my argument that you ignored  

The reason I don't find much value in the mathhammer side of things is that it leaves out so, so much. Damage potential only calculates things in a optimum vacuum. Ignoring variables such as: do you really get 12 Ogors within 1"? Or 10 for that matter? How many survive a punch if struck first? Can you get them where they are close to that optimum vacuum? Do you get buffs, debuffs etc in there? How long can you maintain the Monster charge minimum of 8 ogors in a unit? Battleline/Battalion requirements? Etc. 
Some off these will favour the Gluttons over the Leadbelchers and vice versa. 

That' the reason I didn't argue taking 2 units of leadbelchers over Gluttons. But rather one unit of each, so you have that versatility. 

But let's do some math then with the re-rolls:

4 hours ago, MKsmash said:

Now, it comes down to shooting, which we already know is unreliable and meh.

First off it isn't great but it's an extra 2-5 wounds against a three up, 3-6 against a four up, and 3-8 against a five up. All without re-rolls though. My napkin math tells me that the 6's to hit will average half a hit extra per ogor, with a 3+ wounds means 4 extra  saves for your opponent. So i'm fine with striking them against each other. Shooting is a bit more damaging but only happens half the turns. 

Spoiler

 

 

 

 

Again my argument is that's it's super useful to have the utility of the leadbelchers and the gluttons. So as per my original example vs a 3+ save re-rolling fails. 

Leadbelchers getting in 10: 

Gluttons getting in all 12:

Combat Calculator doesn't allow me to take in account 're-roll fails happens before modifiers' vs higher saves. 

4 hours ago, MKsmash said:

Clearly, Gluttons are superior in melee combat.

So, now i'm getting my snark on  Clearly, Leadbelchers are superior in melee combat... if you get them into the right units. 

Now I still maintain these calculations are a bit useless because: Getting 12 in? 10 for that matter? Rarely happens in my games. So that's going to throw things around massively. Not to mention all the others variables like buffs, debuffs, extra round of shooting, spiking sixes to save or to hit. 

4 hours ago, MKsmash said:

Now, you can get 8 more wounds in a 12 Glutton unit for the same amount of points as 10 belchers. If I'm already treating them like Gluttons, what's the point of just not taking the actual, superior, Gluttons?

But for me, if anything, the maths prove that there is a place for Gluttons and Leadbelchers in the same Gutbuster focussed lists. So that's why I take Gluttons and Leadbelchers. They are superior to each other in different situations. Having options is King.

4 hours ago, MKsmash said:

And those small 40 more points for the Ironguts take out 20 more Clanrats

And yeah, if you just looking for damage potential Ironguts win against everything except the Frostlord on stonehorn 😂But then you end up with the Doom & Darkness list. 2 stonehorns, 8 ironguts, a butcher to buff and Hunter with cats to screen and ambush. 

@Kimbo I'm not arguing there is a clear winner for you, all things from in game match up to battalion requirements can change the use of both. But they are worth testing out imo.  

[James101]

3 hours ago, Kramer said:

Not Snarky at all. First off, they are a utility unit and they have always worked well for me. So the maths isn't that important, but you did leave out the re-rolls on the save. Big part of my argument that you ignored  

The reason I don't find much value in the mathhammer side of things is that it leaves out so, so much. Damage potential only calculates things in a optimum vacuum. Ignoring variables such as: do you really get 12 Ogors within 1"? Or 10 for that matter? How many survive a punch if struck first? Can you get them where they are close to that optimum vacuum? Do you get buffs, debuffs etc in there? How long can you maintain the Monster charge minimum of 8 ogors in a unit? Battleline/Battalion requirements? Etc. 
Some off these will favour the Gluttons over the Leadbelchers and vice versa. 

That' the reason I didn't argue taking 2 units of leadbelchers over Gluttons. But rather one unit of each, so you have that versatility. 

But let's do some math then with the re-rolls:

First off it isn't great but it's an extra 2-5 wounds against a three up, 3-6 against a four up, and 3-8 against a five up. All without re-rolls though. My napkin math tells me that the 6's to hit will average half a hit extra per ogor, with a 3+ wounds means 4 extra  saves for your opponent. So i'm fine with striking them against each other. Shooting is a bit more damaging but only happens half the turns. 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

 

 

Again my argument is that's it's super useful to have the utility of the leadbelchers and the gluttons. So as per my original example vs a 3+ save re-rolling fails. 

Leadbelchers getting in 10: 

Gluttons getting in all 12:

Combat Calculator doesn't allow me to take in account 're-roll fails happens before modifiers' vs higher saves. 

So, now i'm getting my snark on  Clearly, Leadbelchers are superior in melee combat... if you get them into the right units. 

Now I still maintain these calculations are a bit useless because: Getting 12 in? 10 for that matter? Rarely happens in my games. So that's going to throw things around massively. Not to mention all the others variables like buffs, debuffs, extra round of shooting, spiking sixes to save or to hit. 

But for me, if anything, the maths prove that there is a place for Gluttons and Leadbelchers in the same Gutbuster focussed lists. So that's why I take Gluttons and Leadbelchers. They are superior to each other in different situations. Having options is King.

And yeah, if you just looking for damage potential Ironguts win against everything except the Frostlord on stonehorn 😂But then you end up with the Doom & Darkness list. 2 stonehorns, 8 ironguts, a butcher to buff and Hunter with cats to screen and ambush. 

@Kimbo I'm not arguing there is a clear winner for you, all things from in game match up to battalion requirements can change the use of both. But they are worth testing out imo.  

Plus consider a unit which is camping on an objective. If the unit is Gluttons, then likelihood is it does absolutely nothing while camping the objective. The Leadbelchers unit is more likely to do something in that scenario. Granted I’m not sure I’d want a unit of 10/12 for camping in either scenario. But generally a small unit for camping objectives, I’d rather it was leadies than gluttons. 

[Kramer]

4 minutes ago, James101 said:

Plus consider a unit which is camping on an objective. If the unit is Gluttons, then likelihood is it does absolutely nothing while camping the objective. The Leadbelchers unit is more likely to do something in that scenario. Granted I’m not sure I’d want a unit of 10/12 for camping in either scenario. But generally a small unit for camping objectives, I’d rather it was leadies than gluttons. 

Yeah again. It’s utility. 
but you’re right, it’s a waste of 400 pts if your stuck their either way. 
for me cats have been the go to objective holders.  The ogors play board control and just act like a scrimmage line.