AoS 2 - Ogor Mawtribe Discussion

[Schauer]

1 hour ago, Bayul said:

So how does Boulderhead / Eurlbad actually beat IDK? I played against a  Dhom-hain list with reroll hit rolls after charges and reroll all wound rolls against Monsters. All units have -1 to hit because they count as covered in round 1. Except for my Frostlords on Stonehorn nothing in my army matches multiple charged eels (Akhelian Ishlaen Guard). They are hard to hit and ignore rend.

Do I have to accept that their alpha strike with eels is stronger then our charges and deploy for a counter charge? Should I use my Mournfang Packs as screen?

its a tough match up for sure. I feel like in my case taking turn 1 and playing up on all three objective turn 1 was a mistake as I was spread out vs their bunched formation and did not realize/respect how much damage they get from charging. 

 

They are just a tough match up because their win condition is the same as ours and they have rules that help them a ton vs the models we need to achieve the same win condition. I think the trick to winning is to either catch them on turn 2 with a good alpha strike or bait their positioning so that their turn 3 isnt as good as it could be.  I dont think its unwinnable but unfortunately in my local meta I dont get a chance to play them to figure out where the sweet spot is.

[Kadeton]

Yeah, IDK are really tough to beat now. The unrendable eels are a total roadblock, and the turtle does more damage than a Frostlord while costing less and buffing everything around it. I think they've just been power-crept to the point where it will always be an uphill struggle.

[Rors]

Apparently a torbad list went 4-1 at a larger Australian tournament.
Freak occurrence or have thundertusks been underrate by the community?

 

[Schauer]

5 hours ago, Rors said:

Apparently a torbad list went 4-1 at a larger Australian tournament.
Freak occurrence or have thundertusks been underrate by the community?

 

I'm curious what the list looked like because I would never personally want to take Torbad  unless I am looking for a second artefact. The moment thundertusks start trying to play around in melee range trouble brews. 

 

That being said if you take enough thundertusks and assuming all have blood vultures thats 4 mortal wounds a shooting phase + about 40+ dice being thrown for mortal wounds. Ive tried spamming them before and it felt too swingy for me

[Rors]

3 hours ago, Schauer said:

I'm curious what the list looked like because I would never personally want to take Torbad  unless I am looking for a second artefact. The moment thundertusks start trying to play around in melee range trouble brews. 

 

That being said if you take enough thundertusks and assuming all have blood vultures thats 4 mortal wounds a shooting phase + about 40+ dice being thrown for mortal wounds. Ive tried spamming them before and it felt too swingy for me

I think the list was something a frostlord on stone, torbad with 3 thundertusks, and 4 mournfang in boulderhead.

If I can find who it played into I'll post that. The only way I can imagine it working is like a ranged assassination army. Neither the vultures, snowballs, or blizzard prayer care about look out sir, so maybe the list just removes support characters early and sits on objectives?

[Kadeton]

Yeah, I'd be curious to see a rundown on how that list approaches the game. You do get to roll a bunch of dice for mortals at range which is very "in" right now, but it's not good at that game plan compared to say Lumineth or Seraphon, and I can't see how it doesn't just fold in melee.

[Rors]

I guess maybe the difference is thundertusks put out less MWs from range but also have considerably more wounds than the characters they want to assassinate, so possibly win attrition in a shoot out?

In melee the list has a frostlord on stonehorn and 4 mournfang as obviously strong options. A thundertusk huskard isn't anywhere near as killy, but with the right mount traists and artifact will ignore rend -1 and -2 (remember how good etherial amulet was?) And is -1 to hit in melee. That's solid defense.

A thundertusk is still 10 models even when it's on one wound for objectives. Doesn't need to win the fight, it needs to get there first (which it can having cav tier speed) then not die. It's good at thinning stuff that would outnumber it with it's snowball.

I dunno, I'm speculating to make sense of it. It's probably just a really good player who had lucky match ups. A part of me wants thundertusks to be viable just to create some diversity for the lists. Stonehorns are amazing but it's so very very cookie cutter at this point.

[Schauer]

I think its doable if you can kill support heroes. Wonder if you would be better off trashing the 4 mournfang for an extra thundertusk beastrider for another 12 shots at mw.

At that point you have 5 models shooting for MW's, 5 blood vultures to kill support heroes, and 6 models that are doing 4+ MW's on charge rolls.  I could see some matchups being very tough but if you use the stonehorn effectively it could work and youve got a heal prayer and the pot to keep it healthy

[Charleston]

I had the chance for my first game since a long time I played against a Troggoth/Squig-Gloomspite list.

Usually I play an Eurlbad with Husskard, 1x Beastriders, 2x4 Mournfangs, a Frostlord and a Thundertusk Beastrider with some basic artifacts and traits.
This time I went for 2x2 Mournfangs with handweapons in the Eurlbad, the Frostlord, a Butcher, 6 Gluttons and an Ironblaster, all as Bloodgullet.

The update to the list was awesome. The smaller mournfang units were way easier to handle and still did a good job on the charge. The Butcher with the Wizzard-Skin-Skirt was able to rock some spells, althrough the missing mawpot made it a little bit fickle to cast reliably. The ironblaster was a little disappointment as it didn´t do much during the game.

We played for 2 turns, I was able to charge and kill a lot of his squigs including his Squig-mangler turn 1. His counterattack was a little bit unfocused and allowed me to kill some more troggoth including his hag. Game ended turn 2 because there wasn´t much gloomspite left. Especially turn 2 was dominated by awesome save rolls on my side and awfull ones on my buddies rolls.
 

[Geohen]

I had a question for the hivemind. There is an escalation league starting in my city in the summer. I know at the end I would like to run the Beastclaw Raiders. For this league you have to set your faction and allegiance at the beginning and it cannot be changed. My plan is to run Boulderhead. Is there a viable 1k point list for them? This would be my first time playing. Based on the battletome there is no battalion I can take at 1k points, so I am looking at a minimum of a 3 drop list until game 3 when the points increase to 1250. I was thinking a Frostlord on Stonehorn and 2 Thundertusk Beastriders to support him? Just try to run to objectives and sit on them. 

[Rors]

17 hours ago, Geohen said:

I had a question for the hivemind. There is an escalation league starting in my city in the summer. I know at the end I would like to run the Beastclaw Raiders. For this league you have to set your faction and allegiance at the beginning and it cannot be changed. My plan is to run Boulderhead. Is there a viable 1k point list for them? This would be my first time playing. Based on the battletome there is no battalion I can take at 1k points, so I am looking at a minimum of a 3 drop list until game 3 when the points increase to 1250. I was thinking a Frostlord on Stonehorn and 2 Thundertusk Beastriders to support him? Just try to run to objectives and sit on them. 

At 1k 3 huge monsters is going to be more than a lot of lists can handle, you'll win some games by showing up. In other games you will auto lose because you can't be more than  3 places. The meeting engagement rules were designed for 1k games and I'd recommend have a look at them and talking to the group, it's simply more ballanced rules for that game size. If you do go meeting engagement, you'll need to change your list a bit to fit the format. I'd recommend mournfang. The can go in betallions later, you can build legal meeting engagement list, and having more than 3 units means your game outcomes will be more dependant on tactics than what mission you roll/what army you face.

 

[Kadeton]

Took my Beastclaws to a local 1-day 3-game team tournament yesterday, had a fun time and my team came third overall.

I was back to my usual Stonehorn list: Boulderhead, two Frostlords, with one Huskard, one Beastriders, and four and two Mournfangs in a Eurlbad. I experimented with taking the Rime-Shroud for my second artefact, in the expectation that I'd be matched up against Lumineth or Daughters or other armies that deal mortal wounds with ranged attacks, but in the end I wasn't and it was totally useless - should have taken the Skullshards instead.

In the first game, the opposing team chose to match me with their Sons of Behemat player for The Better Part of Valour. This had me a bit worried in the early turns, since I'm obviously a bit light on battleline units and their Mega-Gargants still counted for objectives despite the non-standard capture rules. There were at least four copies of almost exactly the same Sons list kicking around the tournament: Taker tribe, two Mega-Gargants, a unit of three Gargants, and two single Gargants, with a Soulscream Bridge - I'm pretty sure that was just because they seemed like a shoe-in for this mission. Unfortunately for them, Stonehorns hit a lot harder than Mega-Gargants, and they were all dead by the end of turn 3. Victory!

The second game was Battle for the Pass, and I was put up against Archaon and 3x3 Varanguard, with a Gaunt Summoner and the Chronomantic Cogs. Again, this was the opposing team's choice, and my opponent admitted he hadn't played against Beastclaws before. He used the Cogs to try to get multiple first-turn charges but only Archaon and one unit of Varanguard made it - a big risk with a potentially big reward, but Archaon didn't manage to trigger an instant kill on my Frostlord and the Varanguard could only get into contact with the two Mournfangs, while the Stonehorns just behind them were in range to pile in and fight. Archaon and three Varanguard were all dead on his turn 1, the rest of the Varanguard died on my turn 1, and the Gaunt Summoner couldn't fight my whole army on his own. We finished an hour and a half early and went for a beer.

The third game had me up against Nurgle, 30 Blightkings with Gutrot Spume, a Great Unclean One, etc., playing Total Conquest. Since they were fairly elite, I realised early on that I could outnumber them on most of the objectives without even fighting, and was fast enough that I could choose to engage where I wanted. This was a long and grindy game - buffed-up Blightkings can really soak damage! - but the Beastclaws held on long enough to build an unassailable lead and win on points.

Very happy with a 3-0 result in this setting, even though my opponents were close to ideal match-ups for my army. Thanks to them for being great sports, especially the Archaon player who took his lumps like a champ. It was heartening to see several other Beastclaw lists too - I used to be the only one there, but there's more every year.

[KingBrodd]

How would everyone feel about going forward, Mawtribes leaning more heavily into their East Asian/Mongolian influences that are hinted at but not overly presented in the models until now with the Cursed City Zombie Ogors and Brutogg?

Personally I'd really love it, the Mongolian influence would also go greatly with Beastclaw as a nomadic peoples. 

 

[Rors]

The Mongol look has always been somewhat of a theme with ogors. I wouldn't mode if they went further down that path.

Burtog will probably get his own AoS warscroll, I'll be interested to see what it looks like.

[KingBrodd]

5 minutes ago, Rors said:

The Mongol look has always been somewhat of a theme with ogors. I wouldn't mode if they went further down that path.

Burtog will probably get his own AoS warscroll, I'll be interested to see what it looks like.

It will be interesting indeed. With 3.0 seemingly Destructions time to shine now would be the time that Factions such as Mawtribes recidve their Wave 2 or in their case their first Wave for AOS. 

[Charleston]

@KingBrodd Ogors were already the Mongolian-inspired army from WHFB. What we see is rather a remainer of this design rather than a new trend.

[Kadeton]

I think they need to proceed with caution when making a strong visual or cultural connection to any real-world ethnic group, but more Ogors with Mongolian-inspired elements would be just fine, and entirely in keeping with their existing line. I guess when you get down to it, that's quite similar to just saying "More Ogor models would be good, thanks."

[KingBrodd]

1 hour ago, Charleston said:

@KingBrodd Ogors were already the Mongolian-inspired army from WHFB. What we see is rather a remainer of this design rather than a new trend.

Of course mate I remember their launch back when they were predominantly Elephant grey!! I just hope to see more of a return to that.

6 minutes ago, Kadeton said:

I think they need to proceed with caution when making a strong visual or cultural connection to any real-world ethnic group, but more Ogors with Mongolian-inspired elements would be just fine, and entirely in keeping with their existing line. I guess when you get down to it, that's quite similar to just saying "More Ogor models would be good, thanks."

More Ogors please.

[Verminlord]

Thinking about returning to this army with this list. 

Boulderhead, artifacts not sure yet.

 The plan is to use 2cp T1 to bully both gnoblar units, who will be strung out so that both are within 3 of the Tyrant and also on or threatening an objective. Tyrant can then move up the board/ be used as charge bait. And Jorlbad of course giving my big beasties what is effectively run&charge T1.

Anyone have experience with gnoblars? I know they'll die quick, but that's damage not going into stonehorns. I wish I could bully my clanrats and leave them without a baby sitter that's for sure.

Edited March 24, 2021 by Verminlord

[Shankelton]

Personally I like it! Brutogg's body shape is still very much ogre, and I welcome it. Admittedly my biggest worry is that new ogre sculpts, when and if we get them, will not look good next to existing kits. Always a worry collecting an army I suppose!

[KingBrodd]

2 hours ago, Shankelton said:

Personally I like it! Brutogg's body shape is still very much ogre, and I welcome it. Admittedly my biggest worry is that new ogre sculpts, when and if we get them, will not look good next to existing kits. Always a worry collecting an army I suppose!

That why I propose all models on foot; Gluttons, Leadbelchers, Ironguts, Butchers, Slaughtermasters get updated!!

[Rotbinger]

As I am new to Mawtribes, I'm hoping you lot can offer some advice on how to build a Beastclaw Raiders army. I'm planning on purchasing three start collecting sets in the near future,  and I was wondering what would be the best bet for constructing my monsters, etc? Other than the contents of the three sets, I doubt I'd want to add anything else, so I'd rather get a decent list working for me fairly quickly. Any advice would be appreciated.

 

[Kadeton]

Welcome to the Mawtribes, @Rotbinger

So from three Start Collecting sets, my suggestion would be:

Frostlord on Stonehorn
Huskard on Stonehorn
Stonehorn Beastriders
3x4 Mournfang Pack
Eurlbad battalion
(Boulderhead Mawtribe)

This happens to be exactly 2000 points, and is a really solid list.

As far as loadout options I'd recommend Blood Vultures on the Huskard and Beastriders, and Ironfists on the Mournfangs. That said, the Mawtribes models are some of the easiest to magnetise due to their size, so if you feel like experimenting with that you can build them to have all the options available and swap them out as you like.

[Rotbinger]

Thanks @Kadeton.

I think the magantised route seems like a sensible choice. In terms of gamplay/tactics, what's the best way to get around the low model count? I know they count as having more models for objective purposes, but are there any glaring weaknesses I should be mindful of? 

[Kadeton]

The games that I've lost have generally been because I split my attention across a lot of different areas of the table (against very mobile armies like Kharadrons) and then got isolated and shot to pieces. Or just run into things that do more damage than you can handle (e.g. staying in combat with Deepkin on their everyone-strikes-first turn instead of retreating, or getting alpha-struck by Sylvaneth).

Mostly, my games are fairly one-sided - the Stonehorns are fast enough and tough enough that they will get into combat, and they tend to destroy whatever they fight (if you're worried about winning the fight with one, try charging with two or three). If you get a double turn the game is often just over on the spot, so it's usually best to force your opponent to go first if you can (and you usually can, the list above has only two drops). They either come closer and make your charges easier, or they do nothing and waste 20% of the game.

I haven't had any trouble holding objectives, except against Sons of Behemat. But that's okay - we hit harder than the Sons, and they have even fewer models, so you can table them by turn 3 or so and then catch up on points. Feel free to let your opponent jump onto objectives first - you want them to put their models where you can get to them with a charge, and after the dust settles (if they're not all dead) then you'll usually outnumber whatever is left.

Otherwise, the Eurlbad battalion ability pretty much sums up this list's whole approach: Crush, Mangle, Tenderise. There's no real subtlety or clever tricks here, it's just a really tough, brutally hard-hitting melee avalanche that throws out tons of mortal wounds and can kill basically anything that gets in the way.