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Posted (edited)

I gonna play again after a break of 1 year,i gonna use easy to transport minis(so i wont use a deagonlord etc)

 

This is the list that im thinking:

 

Allegiance: Cities of Sigmar
- City: Hammerhal

Leaders
Auric Runefather (100)
- Allies
Warden King (110)
- General
- Trait: Blood of the Twelve
- Artefact: The Twinstone
Runelord (90)
- City Role: General's Adjutant (Must be 6 wounds or less)
Runelord (90)
Warden King (110)

Battleline
20 x Hammerers (280)
- City Role: Honoured Retinue (Must be 5-20 models)
30 x Ironbreakers (330)
10 x Irondrakes (150)
10 x Irondrakes (150)

Units
10 x Hearthguard Berzerkers (240)
- Broadaxes
- Allies
1 x Gyrocopters (70)
1 x Gyrocopters (70)
3 x Vanguard-Raptors with Longstrike Crossbows (170)

Total: 1960 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 340 / 400
Wounds: 130
 

 

My idea is use the copters and irondrakes  very close to my melles but out of melle combat and then have one big block of hard hitting unit with hammerers(bufed by runelord and the +1 hit of relik and rerolls wound of trait) and then a turtle unit to keep objetive(ironbreakers with 6++ of runelord) and one mixed unit with the fyreslayers elite.

I would changue the stormcast and 1 dwarf king and runelord for a stardrake or black dragon but take too much space in my box to transport.

 

What you think guys?

 

Edit: i changued copters for bombers and father for smitter so i am at 2000

Edited by prochuvi

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What do you guys think of the following Hammerhalian Lancers list. Anything better at shooting than the 20 SotW? 

 

Allegiance: Cities of Sigmar
- City: Hammerhal
Anointed of Asuryan on Frostheart Phoenix (320)
Freeguild General on Griffon (320)
- General
- Lance
Battlemage (90)
Knight-Azyros (100)
3 x Demigryph Knights (180)
- Lance and Sword
3 x Demigryph Knights (180)
- Lance and Sword
3 x Demigryph Knights (180)
- Lance and Sword
20 x Sisters of the Watch (320)
5 x Tree-Revenants (80)
- Allies
5 x Tree-Revenants (80)
- Allies
Hammerhalian Lancers (140)

Total: 1990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 160 / 400
Wounds: 101

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3 hours ago, Rune said:

What do you guys think of the following Hammerhalian Lancers list. Anything better at shooting than the 20 SotW? 

 

Allegiance: Cities of Sigmar
- City: Hammerhal
Anointed of Asuryan on Frostheart Phoenix (320)
Freeguild General on Griffon (320)
- General
- Lance
Battlemage (90)
Knight-Azyros (100)
3 x Demigryph Knights (180)
- Lance and Sword
3 x Demigryph Knights (180)
- Lance and Sword
3 x Demigryph Knights (180)
- Lance and Sword
20 x Sisters of the Watch (320)
5 x Tree-Revenants (80)
- Allies
5 x Tree-Revenants (80)
- Allies
Hammerhalian Lancers (140)

Total: 1990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 160 / 400
Wounds: 101

Maybe shadow warriors can combine what you need from revenants and sisters in one unit and help you lower drop count? Also scourgerunners are always a good option in cities.

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7 hours ago, Trayanee said:

Maybe shadow warriors can combine what you need from revenants and sisters in one unit and help you lower drop count? Also scourgerunners are always a good option in cities.

Don't have the scourgerunners available. But I did what you suggested with the Shadow Warriors and it worked wonders. Got the win today ❤️

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12 hours ago, Rune said:

Don't have the scourgerunners available. But I did what you suggested with the Shadow Warriors and it worked wonders. Got the win today ❤️

Nice. I am glad they worked for you.  Never mind about the chariots as it may be better to not get used to them. I am expecting them to get pretty substantial bump in points in next GHB

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Posted (edited)
13 minutes ago, Trayanee said:

Nice. I am glad they worked for you.  Never mind about the chariots as it may be better to not get used to them. I am expecting them to get pretty substantial bump in points in next GHB

I don't own the models and don't see me buying them so won't be an issue anyway.

Ended up doing further amendments to my list, and it's now this:
Anointed of Asuryan on Frostheart Phoenix (320)
Freeguild General on Griffon (320)
- Runesword
Battlemage (90)
Knight-Azyros (100)
6 x Demigryph Knights (360)
- Lance and Sword
3 x Demigryph Knights (180)
- Lance and Sword
3 x Demigryph Knights (180)
- Lance and Sword
10 x Shadow Warriors (110)
10 x Shadow Warriors (110)
5 x Tree-Revenants (80)
Hammerhalian Lancers (140)

Can swap the Tree- Revenants to up the battlemage to a Knight Incantor for the survivability and auto dispel + a Balewind Vortex (which I don't see being used very often, but can't see the 40 points being used better elsewhere). Also lowers the drop count to 6.

Edited by Rune
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54 minutes ago, Rune said:

I don't own the models and don't see me buying them so won't be an issue anyway.

Ended up doing further amendments to my list, and it's now this:
Anointed of Asuryan on Frostheart Phoenix (320)
Freeguild General on Griffon (320)
- Runesword
Battlemage (90)
Knight-Azyros (100)
6 x Demigryph Knights (360)
- Lance and Sword
3 x Demigryph Knights (180)
- Lance and Sword
3 x Demigryph Knights (180)
- Lance and Sword
10 x Shadow Warriors (110)
10 x Shadow Warriors (110)
5 x Tree-Revenants (80)
Hammerhalian Lancers (140)

Can swap the Tree- Revenants to up the battlemage to a Knight Incantor for the survivability and auto dispel + a Balewind Vortex (which I don't see being used very often, but can't see the 40 points being used better elsewhere). Also lowers the drop count to 6.

With Incantor, I would be really tempted to also include Everblaze comet and maybe try Dais Arcanum instead of Balewind 

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My Hammerhall, tryed a couple of games and it's pretty solid. What do you think?

Allegiance: Cities of Sigmar
- Mortal Realm: Ghyran
- City: Hammerhal
LEADERS
Anointed of Asuryan on Flamespyre Phoenix (300)
- General
- Command Trait : Blood of the Twelve
- Artefact : The Twinstone
Anointed of Asuryan on Frostheart Phoenix (320)
Anointed of Asuryan on Frostheart Phoenix (320)
Knight-Incantor (140)
- Lore of Cinder : Wings of Fire
UNITS
30 x Phoenix Guard (420)
10 x Eternal Guard (130)
10 x Eternal Guard (130)
5 x Sisters of the Thorn (130)
- Lore of Cinder : Cindercloud
ENDLESS SPELLS / TERRAIN / COMMAND POINTS
Extra Command Point (50)
Geminids of Uhl-Gysh (60)
TOTAL: 2000/2000 EXTRA COMMAND POINTS: 1 WOUNDS: 101
LEADERS: 4/6 BATTLELINES: 3 (3+) BEHEMOTHS: 3/4 ARTILLERY: 0/4
ARTEFACTS: 1/1 ALLIES: 0/400

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Posted (edited)

Hammerhal

Advanced Target Saturation

VS

Cabalists

Endless Spells

Focal Points

I tested out my new Hammerhal Freeguild list against StoD Cabalists yesterday. The tactic behind my list is to have so many minimum sized units, that my opponent cannot focus them down, while generating the CP required to pull this tactic off. I played for the objectives, and this worked well as I was able to funnel his 20 chaos warriors to the central objective (which is a large open piece of ruins terrain where it is easy to claim cover) and keep them there, while the rest of my army pushed for his flank objectives. The over-saturation of small units working together (you can tell how they were positioned by how they appear in the list) split his attention too thinly, and he didn't have the resources to tackle everything. We traded the central and his left objectives twice, as his warriors were forced to handle the 6 Demigryphs and Aventis in his territory. Aventis protected them with Cindercloud and they controlled his big pieces such as Be'lakor long enough for me to claim the rest of the board. The knights eventually fell, but not before they slew Be'lakor, and Aventis flew off to secure the center, where he would next march on with his juggernaut of warriors. Fortunately, I had men to spare.

The game had to end at the top of turn 4, and was 18-14 to Hammerhal. I still controlled my left side objectives and my right objective, so he could not catch up. I maintained the turn order the entire game, so there were no double turns.

Thoughts:

Aventis Firestrike did more then my Gryphon ever could, despite not being as powerful in melee. His double unbinds were important here, and he is a good caster for Cindercloud due to his large base. He can still use Righteous Purpose and All out Attack, so he did plenty to help the Demigryphs. I also cast Pha's protection on him, letting him weather anything that attacked with -2 to hit. His melee is OK, but making him fight twice is what makes him viable as a fighter here. I know many choose the Celestant Prime, but Aventis can do more before he gets stuck in and play in the backfield early. He did solo a Manticore lord, so he definitely earned his keep.

Ironically, this list was more susceptible to endless spells due to lots of small units, and my center regiment was hit by the Darkfire Daemonrift immediately, which killed at least 15-18 men alone. Again, I had soldiers to spare. That spell ate a lot of wounds.

The CP generation this army naturally generates is the requirement for it to work (2-3 a turn from banners). If I could fight twice, my units were, as on turn 2 I had 8 command points. It's also important for movement, as the way I align my 'regiments' require them to move together. They were arranged with 10 Guard in front, 10 Greatswords just behind them but far enough that any attackers that hit the Guard could not reach them, allowing them to pile in, and then 10 Gunners behind them to provide Stand and Shoot to any attackers. Suffice to say, he didn't try to charge my regiments, of which I had 3.

I usually take Blood of the Twelve on my Freeguild General, but because my units were spreading out over the board, I opted to take Acadamae Prodigy to keep an emergency CP. The extra attack actually came in use when he dealt 8 wounds to the other manticore. I never even used Hold the Line! past the 1st turn.

I did get extremely lucky in that my Demigryphs completely ignored Be'lakor's meddling.

 

Lists:

 

 

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Edited by Dankboss
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That's great. Did you find much use in the extra command points generated by banners? I've always felt like that's the most take-or-leave part of the Hammerhal allegiance since Cities are okay at generating additional command points in other ways.

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1 hour ago, StapMyVitals said:

That's great. Did you find much use in the extra command points generated by banners? I've always felt like that's the most take-or-leave part of the Hammerhal allegiance since Cities are okay at generating additional command points in other ways.

Hammerhal can only generate CP from an adjutant otherwise. I think it's vital to the army to be able to generate so many, because this build has so many units that you want running 6 or fighting twice. This is what allowed me to overwhelm my enemy. I don't think another army with less CP could do it as effectively. I used All Out Defense a lot on the Demigryphs and Aventis; most armies would probably scoff at the idea of spending CP on such a minor ability, but this list is about a lot of a little, and it paid off.

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That's sounds like a really good strategy that makes the most of the army's synergies, and it's completely different from my Hammerhal list. Mostly because I don't have enough banners modelled, but also because I'm at Captain Ahab-levels of obsession with making Flagellants work. I was on the fence about getting Aventis Firestrike but I'm strongly considering it now.

Is there a reason that in all the minimum sizing the Demigryphs are a unit of 6?

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19 minutes ago, StapMyVitals said:

That's sounds like a really good strategy that makes the most of the army's synergies, and it's completely different from my Hammerhal list. Mostly because I don't have enough banners modelled, but also because I'm at Captain Ahab-levels of obsession with making Flagellants work. I was on the fence about getting Aventis Firestrike but I'm strongly considering it now.

Is there a reason that in all the minimum sizing the Demigryphs are a unit of 6?

Thank you, I was intent on doing a classic list of big blocks, but found it didn't work very well. It lost pretty hard to his StoD list before, but this one won by a decent margin, and I don't think his list has an answer to such a saturated battlefield. Also, getting big blocks of infantry to fight twice is really hard, as a lot of the time the fight is at the dead-center; 10 greatswords can do it so much easier.


I need at least one big hammer unit as I don't have a gryphon, and I believe Demigryphs operate best as 6s outside of Lancers.

You can also use a regular Lord-Arcanum on Tauralon and give him the Twinstone, but I need the 2 unbinds Aventis brings; plus he has extra rules that help, since the regular Arcanum has half his rules only work with Stormcast and a bad CA. Aventis is also better in combat thanks to an extra attack and due to the huge CP potential, you can use his +1 to wound on himself.

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I practiced with Hammerhal last night, Mission: Blood n Glory:

General on Griffon (general, Armor of Mallus, Blood of the Twelve)

3x3 Demigryph Knights (halberds)

Lancers battalion

Celestial Hurricanum with battlemage (Thermalrider CLoak, WIngs of Fire)

2x20 Irondrakes

2 Runelords

VS.

Grand Alliance Chaos w/

Rage Thirster (Amber Glaive)

Fury Thirster (general, Malicious Conqueror)

Wrath Thirster (Gryph-feather Charm)

Tyrants of Blood

3x10 Gors w shields (battleline)

3 magma cannons

daemonsmith

The Changeling

Blue Scribes

prismatic palisade

Cities let Chaos go first.  Magmas put 6 wounds onto the Griffon General, then he foolishly moved forth to try and engage the Wrath Thirster, forgetting that the Fury Thirster had the 6" fight/pile-in ability.  General went down to 2 wounds by end of turn 1, though the Wrath Thirster ended up with 8 wounds left (gryph-feather helped him out a bit there).

Turn 2 Daemonsmith finished off the Griffon General after two Thirsters whiffed on shooting him.  Magmas didn't have much in the way of targets due to the intervening woods so they plugged some more vs Demigryph Knights, leaving 1 alive with 1 wound.  Fury Thirster and Rage Thirster then got the charge off to two other Demigryph units on the left and center.....Ragey killed 2 1/2 and Fury only did 3 wounds to the other unit.  Then bottom of turn 2 demigryph knights backed by the Hurricanum wooped the ****** out of those Thirsters and killed them off!   Then many Gors died, and Chaos should have magma'd the sneaky Runelord who proceeded to run up to capture the other Chaos objective top of turn 4, giving Cities the Major Victory!

Lancers battalion is solid, and plain Demigryph Knights are just good, and back the Hurricanum EVERYTHING is better.  Gotta keep the battalion going as one big unit, as is my experience with many battalions.  Definitely an army list I'll keep using, maybe splitting up the Irondrakes for more Torpedoes though.  Also, Runelords unbind and dispel wonderfully, they give Khorne and Tzeentch some competition there.

Using this combo with Greywater Fastness might be good too if I can wiggle in a Steam Tank/Commander.

 

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Hey, what do you think of this list (found on YouTube) for competitive play ? Seems really cool and diverse.

Thanks a lot !

Screenshot_2020-05-22-12-18-49-92.jpg

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16 hours ago, Heaven_lord said:

Hey, what do you think of this list (found on YouTube) for competitive play ? Seems really cool and diverse.

Thanks a lot !

Screenshot_2020-05-22-12-18-49-92.jpg

Looks like a fun list.  Not competitive though.

Cities greatest power is its shooting.  Its second greatest power is probably its magic (even outside of hallowheart).  It is REALLY hard to convince me that you can have a competitive list that is looking to mix it up in melee while ignoring most of the cities strengths.  Additionally, there are a lot of armies out there that are better in melee, and have supporting pieces that massively increase their power.  Not having ways to remove those pieces is... a good way to lose the engagement.

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8 hours ago, readercolin said:

Looks like a fun list.  Not competitive though.

Cities greatest power is its shooting.  Its second greatest power is probably its magic (even outside of hallowheart).  It is REALLY hard to convince me that you can have a competitive list that is looking to mix it up in melee while ignoring most of the cities strengths.  Additionally, there are a lot of armies out there that are better in melee, and have supporting pieces that massively increase their power.  Not having ways to remove those pieces is... a good way to lose the engagement.

What do you mean when a list isn't competitive? That it'll go 0-5 in a recognized tournament? That it can't go 5-0? 

It's a funny phrase to be honest, at least I don't really understand its use. 

You can make 4-1 lists that does not have particular shooting or magic. But I agree that a list works best if it has something to threaten the small heros.

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45 minutes ago, Rune said:

What do you mean when a list isn't competitive? That it'll go 0-5 in a recognized tournament? That it can't go 5-0? 

It's a funny phrase to be honest, at least I don't really understand its use. 

You can make 4-1 lists that does not have particular shooting or magic. But I agree that a list works best if it has something to threaten the small heros.

When I say competitive, I generally am looking for a list that can go at least 3-2 in a tournament with a half-way competent pilot.  If you can do that with a halfway competent pilot, as you get better it gets easier to take that same list, or that list with a few small tweaks  to a 4-1 finish, or maybe even have things go right enough to pull off a 5-0.

As for making a 4-1 list that doesn't have decent shooting or magic, I agree that other armies can do that.  I don't agree that Cities can pull that off.  Without any widespread ASF or ASL shenanagins, it just can't compete in melee against the top armies.  Additionally, the armies don't have widespread -hit/-wound mechanics, to neuter the opponents offensive attacks, and they don't have widespread durability in either cheap hordes or save after save.  Lastly, they don't have widespread fight-after-death to enable them to still get their damage in even if they are killed for it.

What DOES the cities do well?  Shooting and magic.  The rest of their shenanagins are good to support the cities in that, but if you are wanting to run a list that isn't relying heavily on shooting or magic, you are leaving one of the most powerful resources that they have behind, and your list is going to suffer from that.

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Yeah, not having ASF/ASL hurts bad. Basically means you auto-lose a ton of critical matchups if you're relying on a melee hammer to pull through.

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5 hours ago, readercolin said:

When I say competitive, I generally am looking for a list that can go at least 3-2 in a tournament with a half-way competent pilot.  If you can do that with a halfway competent pilot, as you get better it gets easier to take that same list, or that list with a few small tweaks  to a 4-1 finish, or maybe even have things go right enough to pull off a 5-0.

As for making a 4-1 list that doesn't have decent shooting or magic, I agree that other armies can do that.  I don't agree that Cities can pull that off.  Without any widespread ASF or ASL shenanagins, it just can't compete in melee against the top armies.  Additionally, the armies don't have widespread -hit/-wound mechanics, to neuter the opponents offensive attacks, and they don't have widespread durability in either cheap hordes or save after save.  Lastly, they don't have widespread fight-after-death to enable them to still get their damage in even if they are killed for it.

What DOES the cities do well?  Shooting and magic.  The rest of their shenanagins are good to support the cities in that, but if you are wanting to run a list that isn't relying heavily on shooting or magic, you are leaving one of the most powerful resources that they have behind, and your list is going to suffer from that.

Simon Hall came 11th in Cancon without having a list focused in shooting nor magic.

Instead he focused on  aftersaves on 4+ and combat (letting Prime fight twice). Exactly some of the things you are saying CoS does not have access to. 

With some tweaks, his list can easily provide -2 to hit and -1 to wound as well, from Phas, Cinder Cloud and Frost Phoenix.

Allegiance: Cities of Sigmar

- City: Hammerhal
Anointed of Asuryan on Frostheart Phoenix (320)
- General
- Trait: Blood of the Twelve
- Artefact: The Twinstone
Celestial Hurricanum With Celestial Battlemage (280)
- Spell: Lore of Cinder - Wings of Fire (Hammerhal Wizard)
Battlemage (90)
- Spell: Lore of Cinder - Wings of Fire (Hammerhal Wizard)
- Mortal Realm: Ghur
Celestant-Prime (340)
30 x Phoenix Guard (420)
10 x Freeguild Handgunners (100)
- City Role: Honoured Retinue (Must be 5-20 models)
10 x Freeguild Handgunners (100)
10 x Shadow Warriors (110)
10 x Shadow Warriors (110)
Soulscream Bridge (80)
Extra Command Point (50)

 

What his list DID have that the list in question here does not, is quite some points invested in hero assisination (Hurricanum, Shadow Warriors, Prime and to a certain extent Handgunners and bridge.

Which armies are good at fighting after death? Chaos Marauders with a Chieftain has won tournaments for instance. That's not widespread, but one unit that provides a synergy. 

 

On 5/23/2020 at 11:54 PM, Heaven_lord said:

Hey, what do you think of this list (found on YouTube) for competitive play ? Seems really cool and diverse.

Thanks a lot !

Screenshot_2020-05-22-12-18-49-92.jpg

If you want to go entirely combat I would find another spell-caster, to provide the -1 to hit bouble. Possibly a unit of Sisters of the Thorn can act as both a great unit(due to their large footprint) for Cinder Cloud and to screen the backside of your army for deepstrikes. Another idea is to get a unit of Tree-Revenants to help you out with objectives.

Then I would swap out the Flamephoenix for the Frost, for the -1 to wound bubble. And give him the Twin Stones artefact, to give your Phoenix Guard a +2 to hit, and your Demigryphs +2 to hit when they are not charging. As well as a centerpiece for enabling healing.

I think you'd have a great army, only major issue as I can see it is getting something behind the enemy lines to kill off the enemies 5 wound heroes.

 

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