AoS 2 HammerHal

[Scythian]

Hammerhal Lancers army ready for their  paint job. General on a griffin, 21 Murder Chickens 🐔 with lances and shields. Luminark of Hysh will round out this 2 drop army. 

[Sidewinder]

I see quite a few people here are using DemiGryphs with halberds, either only halberds or one unit of lances and halberds each. Do you do this for flavour / looks only or are there strategies where halberds are better?  From what I've read people are saying lances are miles better...

Mostly I'm asking because I wanted to kitbash white lion riders to use as demigryph, and halberds (or axes) fit the narrative so much better 🙂 Looks and theme is important to me but I don't want to take a hugely inferior option 🙄

[kenshin620]

52 minutes ago, Sidewinder said:

but I don't want to take a hugely inferior option 🙄

IMO this mentality, no offense, has been very exaggerated for AoS. Yes obviously on a charge, lances are better (especially in conjunction with Lancers battalion) but getting bogged down in melee without a charge is also a likely scenario which gives halberds their time to shine.

Worse comes to worse theres always Magnets.

[Gecktron]

I had a few test games with my new Luminark of Hysh and im pretty happy with it. Sure, the las cannon can be pretty hit or miss but the 6+ FnP aura offers valuable MW protection and that thing helps with shutting down enemy magic. 

 

I prefer it over a Hurricanum! 

[Scythian]

My first 3 murder chickens. 

[readercolin]

10 hours ago, Sidewinder said:

I see quite a few people here are using DemiGryphs with halberds, either only halberds or one unit of lances and halberds each. Do you do this for flavour / looks only or are there strategies where halberds are better?  From what I've read people are saying lances are miles better...

Mostly I'm asking because I wanted to kitbash white lion riders to use as demigryph, and halberds (or axes) fit the narrative so much better 🙂 Looks and theme is important to me but I don't want to take a hugely inferior option 🙄

A unit with lances does more damage on the charge, and less in sustained combat.  The difference in damage is such that for a unit of 3, if you charge with the lances, get average damage output, and then stick around without retreating for another 3 battle rounds, then the average damage of the halberd will catch up.  Even with a 3+ save, most of the time you are stuck in combat for 3 rounds, these guys aren't going to survive.

On the other hand, if they get charged, then the halberds will consistently do better damage.  Against some armies, you can guarantee your charges.  Against others, good luck.  So build them with lances if you are confident that you will have the mobility advantage.  Build them with halberds if you want them to still be able to do something after they get charged by some chaff.

[Scythian]

We have a saying in our group, “A.B.C.....Always Be Charging.” I pondered long about lances vs halberds. Ultimately, I came to the conclusion that a demigryph unit was designed to be a charging “punch you in the face” unit. They’re not a unit designed to be a “ground and pound” unit. Strike, destroy, find a new target. While you can never fully defend against the counter charge, you want to ensure that what you do hit, dies! There are also some very tactical retreat and hold options with your chicken lord that can be very effective. Overall, my conclusion was to go with lances. 

[Acid_Nine]

4 hours ago, Scythian said:

We have a saying in our group, “A.B.C.....Always Be Charging.” I pondered long about lances vs halberds. Ultimately, I came to the conclusion that a demigryph unit was designed to be a charging “punch you in the face” unit. They’re not a unit designed to be a “ground and pound” unit. Strike, destroy, find a new target. While you can never fully defend against the counter charge, you want to ensure that what you do hit, dies! There are also some very tactical retreat and hold options with your chicken lord that can be very effective. Overall, my conclusion was to go with lances. 

It’s the way idoneth work with the eels, and I don’t imagine the lance demigryphs would be too different. They may even do better than the eels, for the simple fact that we can pile on to hit and to wound buffs with the various command abilities and battalions. I think a squad of 6 with lances would do better than a squad of three, so I imagine in my fantasy list I would go 2 x6 man lancer squads and 2x 3 man squads of halbreds.

[Scythian]

Freeguild General on his Griffin. Four models down, nineteen to go. 

 

 

[Scythian]

Some better pics of the finished product 

[Gecktron]

Looks great! I like the color scheme on the wings! Im also painting a General on Griffon right now, but I havent found a color scheme yet. 

[Scythian]

The general on griffin can be such a beautiful model. 

[Rune]

On 12/31/2019 at 5:22 AM, readercolin said:

A unit with lances does more damage on the charge, and less in sustained combat.  The difference in damage is such that for a unit of 3, if you charge with the lances, get average damage output, and then stick around without retreating for another 3 battle rounds, then the average damage of the halberd will catch up.  Even with a 3+ save, most of the time you are stuck in combat for 3 rounds, these guys aren't going to survive.

On the other hand, if they get charged, then the halberds will consistently do better damage.  Against some armies, you can guarantee your charges.  Against others, good luck.  So build them with lances if you are confident that you will have the mobility advantage.  Build them with halberds if you want them to still be able to do something after they get charged by some chaff.

3 battlerounds is 6 combat phases. That can't be right.

 

I think you mean 3 turns. 

[Dankboss]

If you're running a main lancers army, then you want different units with both lances and halberds. You're going to need to use Demis as mobile anvils at some point, which is where halberds come in. Their roles change considerably when you concentrate a list like this.

[readercolin]

1 hour ago, Rune said:

3 battlerounds is 6 combat phases. That can't be right.

 

I think you mean 3 turns. 

Total of 4 combat phases may be a better way of phrasing it then (combat phase after charge, and 3 combat phases after that).

[Dankboss]

I played a Hammerhalian Lancers army today vs Slaves to Darkness in Knife to the Heart. Despite being well screened by warriors and endless spells, and lots of d3 mortal wounds landing on 3s, the lancers punched through everything they touched. My Griffon with Saint's Blade (not within 6 of an objective) killed 17 chaos warriors total with a 2nd activation. Best part was a knight Preceptor taking on 5 chaos knights, killing 2 then surviving everything they threw back at him. I didn't think it would make that much of a difference, but +1 +1 was a big deal in observed output. It also saves up a command point as I don't have to use Rousing Battlecry every time, which is good because this list does not have an Adjutant. It still on average generates 1 extra a turn which is enough.

The Luminark and 1 preceptor dealt with a Manticore by themselves which impressed me. In Lancers, Preceptors are stronger than most foot Heroes.

So far so good.

Lancers2.pdf

[Rune]

27 minutes ago, Dankboss said:

I played a Hammerhalian Lancers army today vs Slaves to Darkness in Knife to the Heart. Despite being well screened by warriors and endless spells, and lots of d3 mortal wounds landing on 3s, the lancers punched through everything they touched. My Griffon with Saint's Blade (not within 6 of an objective) killed 17 chaos warriors total with a 2nd activation. Best part was a knight Preceptor taking on 5 chaos knights, killing 2 then surviving everything they threw back at him. I didn't think it would make that much of a difference, but +1 +1 was a big deal in observed output. It also saves up a command point as I don't have to use Rousing Battlecry every time, which is good because this list does not have an Adjutant. It still on average generates 1 extra a turn which is enough.

The Luminark and 1 preceptor dealt with a Manticore by themselves which impressed me. In Lancers, Preceptors are stronger than most foot Heroes.

So far so good.

Lancers2.pdf 5.73 MB · 1 download

I've got a similar list I wanted to run. Excited yours is working out. How'd you deploy?

[Dankboss]

16 minutes ago, Rune said:

I've got a similar list I wanted to run. Excited yours is working out. How'd you deploy?

Lancers on the right, defended the objective with 30 gunners, general and 20 guard then snuck 20 guard up to threaten the flank while the lancers + luminark just bulldozed their way through everything. It was interrupted and was much messier than it should have been, but it still worked.

[zilberfrid]

1 hour ago, Dankboss said:

Lancers on the right, defended the objective with 30 gunners, general and 20 guard then snuck 20 guard up to threaten the flank while the lancers + luminark just bulldozed their way through everything. It was interrupted and was much messier than it should have been, but it still worked.

Have you considered putting the gunners in 3 groups of 10 to generate more CP and have more long guns?

[Dankboss]

1 minute ago, zilberfrid said:

Have you considered putting the gunners in 3 groups of 10 to generate more CP and have more long guns?

I have done that every game except 2 so far. They don't pull their weight the same way a 30 does, and 30 is a massive charge deterrent.

[Rune]

I've played just one game with the following list. Inspired by Dankboss above.

 

The Demigryphs does insane damage on the charge. They are at 3 attacks hit on 2, wound on 3, 2 rend and 2 damage. Re-rolling both 1 to hit and 1 to wound. Once they are in combat they are pretty bad though. 

 

Played scorched earth, so the Handgunners held an objective each with the Sorceress, Black Guard and Freeguild General on one flank. The Batallion, Luminark and Azyros on the other. Worked out wonderfully and won the game. I think the Hand gunners are definitively best split up as the extra command points are absolutely worth it. Command points are critical to fight twice, and more importantly reroll charges.

 

[Dankboss]

17 hours ago, Rune said:

I've played just one game with the following list. Inspired by Dankboss above.

 

The Demigryphs does insane damage on the charge. They are at 3 attacks hit on 2, wound on 3, 2 rend and 2 damage. Re-rolling both 1 to hit and 1 to wound. Once they are in combat they are pretty bad though. 

 

Played scorched earth, so the Handgunners held an objective each with the Sorceress, Black Guard and Freeguild General on one flank. The Batallion, Luminark and Azyros on the other. Worked out wonderfully and won the game. I think the Hand gunners are definitively best split up as the extra command points are absolutely worth it. Command points are critical to fight twice, and more importantly reroll charges.

 

I'm glad it worked out well. Another reason I don't run gunners in 3 lots of 10 is drops. I want a chance at outdropping my opponent, and I was happy with the number of CP I had. I had 4 turn one in my game.

[Lord Hightower]

Hy, out of curiosity I tried the Lancers myself last game, had some glorious charges and liked the playstile. But I found out the hard way, that once your griffon general is slain the rest of the lancers is pretty much doomed. I see that all of you play offensive generals - did you encounter the same problem? Have you ever thought about other items for better protection (especially against MW)?

[Dankboss]

4 hours ago, Lord Hightower said:

Hy, out of curiosity I tried the Lancers myself last game, had some glorious charges and liked the playstile. But I found out the hard way, that once your griffon general is slain the rest of the lancers is pretty much doomed. I see that all of you play offensive generals - did you encounter the same problem? Have you ever thought about other items for better protection (especially against MW)?

That would be dependent on the matchup, but Armor of Mallus is always an option. I take Saint's Blade purely for the fun of more rules interactions, but having your general himself hit like a unit of Rockgut Troggoths is something else. Normally it's the mount that does the damage when it comes to big mounted heroes. The Luminark can alleviate the odd wound, but lancers is about hitting the enemy so hard they can't fight back.

[Rune]

8 hours ago, Lord Hightower said:

Hy, out of curiosity I tried the Lancers myself last game, had some glorious charges and liked the playstile. But I found out the hard way, that once your griffon general is slain the rest of the lancers is pretty much doomed. I see that all of you play offensive generals - did you encounter the same problem? Have you ever thought about other items for better protection (especially against MW)?

Can also run with an Emerald Lifeswarm for the 1D6 healing. Probably a decent thing to do. Won't help him get one shot though, or two if the opponent gets the double turn