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AoS 2 HammerHal


Acid_Nine

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What say you of my army that rides out to face the enemies of the Revenghart empire? (My own bros using the Hammerhal rules):

Leaders

Emperor Markus Albrecht: General on Gryphon w/ Hammer, The Twinstone

General Heinrich Khobin: General on foot, is the General, Blood of the Twelve

Grand-advisor Sigismund Stormforged: Arcanum on Gryph-charger

Battleline

- 20x Freeguild Guard w/ Sword and Shield

- 10x Handgunners

-10x Handgunners

- 20x Greatswords, Honoured Retinue 

- 6x Demi-gryph Knights w/ Lances

Other

- 10x Sequitors

Extra CP

Wounds: 128

TOTAL: 1990pts

Edited by Tiberius501
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On 11/19/2019 at 10:55 AM, Tiberius501 said:

What say you of my army that rides out to face the enemies of the Revenghart empire? (My own bros using the Hammerhal rules):

Leaders

Emperor Markus Albrecht: General on Gryphon w/ Hammer, The Twinstone

General Heinrich Khobin: General on foot, is the General, Blood of the Twelve

Grand-advisor Sigismund Stormforged: Arcanum on Gryph-charger

Battleline

- 20x Freeguild Guard w/ Sword and Shield

- 10x Handgunners

-10x Handgunners

- 20x Greatswords, Honoured Retinue 

- 6x Demi-gryph Knights w/ Lances

Other

- 10x Sequitors

Extra CP

Wounds: 128

TOTAL: 1990pts

Honored Retinue on a valuable unit like Greatswords probably isn't the best idea.  Feels maybe a little lite on bodies?  What does the Arcanum on Gryph offer?  I don't play SCE anymore, but I don't remember him being that useful other than for bringing Sequitor battlelines.

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Hey thanks for the reply. He’s a tough and killy wizard, can heal himself and his Sequitors and buff his Sequitors. And I’ll also give him the Cindercloud spell. Also the General isn’t gaining much from being the guy on foot, so I might make it the Gryphon, and give him the Acadamae Prodigy trait so he’s a super beatstick, and the extra CP it gives, to make up for my lack of an adjutant.

Edited by Tiberius501
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On 11/20/2019 at 10:09 AM, FPC said:

Honored Retinue on a valuable unit like Greatswords probably isn't the best idea.  Feels maybe a little lite on bodies?  What does the Arcanum on Gryph offer?  I don't play SCE anymore, but I don't remember him being that useful other than for bringing Sequitor battlelines.

Actually, that army list has made me realize that the gryph charger may be the support I wanted for my lancer list. He's fast and can keep up with the demigryphs, can dish out mortal wounds fairly easily and, more importantly, provide magical support and a good place for relics on a dude that won't split my army in half. Heck, he could even carry the twinstone while the general on gryphon has gyrnstrike, allowing my to make a more killy general.

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I played a HammerHall mirror last night.

I ran:  Griffon, Celestial Prime, General, Wizard w Geminids, 3 x 10 Flagellants, 2 x 30 Greatswords

He ran: Stardrake, Luminarch, Sorceress, cogsmith, 10 archers (or something), 40 Dreadspears, 12 Chariots

Focal Points in the Realm w Banishment (Spoiler Alert) 

Basically, I didn't have an answer for the Stardrake.  I was able was able to effectively push up against the chariots and establish a line diagonal across the table controlling 4 of the 5 objectives.  I was able to pull ahead on VPs quite comfortably.  I used the Prime to pin the 40 Dreadspears but it got Banished.  The Dreadspears took a chunk out of the Greatswords mostly via battleshock.  The Stardrake crunched my center which was my support characters and 20 flagellants.  I made an error in collapsing onto my flank objective instead of charging a unit of Chariots.  The Stardrake then got into them.  He was then able to shoot off the the rest of my big pieces and that was that.

All in all, disappointing.  I think 30 was the right number for the Greatswords.  They performed as expected.  Battleshock is as brutal as always.  I so want the Flagellants to be even just OK but they just weren't.  10 pts cheaper, WM when they die or a Banner;  anything.  Oh well.  I'll run a unit for flavor but 3 units was way too many.  A stardrake attacking twice is good.  A 2+ re-rollable save is good.  If only I could give the Armor to the Prime.  I'm not sure if 2 beatstick characters is better than an anchor stardrake.  

My buddy noted that he would rather have had 30 heavy infantry instead of the 40 Dreadspears.  He's also down to 9 Chariots.  He just wanted to see all the 12 he had on the table.

  

   

 

 

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On 11/20/2019 at 2:55 AM, Tiberius501 said:

Leaders

Emperor Markus Albrecht: General on Gryphon w/ Hammer, The Twinstone

General Heinrich Khobin: General on foot, is the General, Blood of the Twelve

Grand-advisor Sigismund Stormforged: Arcanum on Gryph-charger

Battleline

- 20x Freeguild Guard w/ Sword and Shield

- 10x Handgunners

-10x Handgunners

- 20x Greatswords, Honoured Retinue 

- 6x Demi-gryph Knights w/ Lances

Other

- 10x Sequitors

Extra CP

Wounds: 128

TOTAL: 1990pts

With this list I mentioned above, how would you fit 20 more Guard with halberds in? 

I’m thinking of maybe dropping the Arcanum and extra CP for 20 halberdiers and a Castellant. And also changing the other 20 guards with swords to halberdiers too.

Edited by Tiberius501
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I took my Hammerhal force for a spin at a local 1250p tag team tournament this weekend. 

I played this list: 

Allegiance: Cities of Sigmar
- City: Hammerhal
Mortal Realm: Ghyran

Leaders
Freeguild General (100)
- General
- Trait: Blood of the Twelve
- Artefact: The Twinstone
Knight-Incantor (140)
- Spell: Lore of Cinder - Cindercloud (Hammerhal Wizard)
- City Role: General's Adjutant (Must be 6 wounds or less)

Battleline
3 x Demigryph Knights (180)
- Cavalry Halberd
10 x Freeguild Greatswords (160)
10 x Freeguild Guard (80)
- Swords and Shields
- City Role: Honoured Retinue (Must be 5-20 models)
10 x Freeguild Guard (80)
- Swords and Shields
10 x Freeguild Handgunners (100)
10 x Freeguild Handgunners (100)
10 x Freeguild Handgunners (100)

Units
5 x Freeguild Pistoliers (100)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Everblaze Comet (100)

Total: 1240 / 1250

I had fun playing my army. But once again I was made painfully aware of my lack of speed and range. My 30 Handgunners are quite powerful and well protectet by the 20 Guardsmen and the Greatswords, but everyone but the Longrifles lack the range to fight an opponent that doesnt want to be caught. 

One game I spent three turns moving my gunners up the field and I only got to shoot once with one squad. 

I liked the Demigryphs but I definitly need more than just 3 to do some real damage. Im planning on downgrading my Knight-Incantor to a Battlemage and dropping the Comet. 

Here have some pictures from that day: 

1205827657_WhatsAppImage2019-11-23at19_03.39(1).jpeg.cc73678c258ff821dca7414b3abfd02f.jpeg492829490_WhatsAppImage2019-11-23at19_03_39.jpeg.d32648b553ed3ad6f58ba681a25a47bb.jpeg1816233699_WhatsAppImage2019-11-23at19_03_40.jpeg.198a46f60136d1eb47bd6356b1077b29.jpeg

Also, while looking at the banners I remembered that I rolled really good. I had 3-5 CP every turn! That is one of my favorite CoS abilities. 

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  • 2 weeks later...

I want to like Hammerhal, but tying two of their abilities to player territory kind of kills them for me. Look at the territory in Duality of Death and Battle for the Pass for example. (Page 60-61 of gen handbook). Those abilities are hugely nerfed by the sheer fact that no significant fighting is likely to occur entirely in any territory. 

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 11/25/2019 at 5:40 AM, Gecktron said:

Also, while looking at the banners I remembered that I rolled really good. I had 3-5 CP every turn! That is one of my favorite CoS abilities. 

I played last night against Khorne with 6 banners and had 8 command points at the end of the game. I lost by a single wound!!!!!!! We played shifting objectives and his blood secrator held the key objective on turn 5 and i could only get 4 wounds on him.  I was one failed save away from tabling him. 

The hardest part i've found with my freeguild heavy list is that having all these command points and abilities does nothing for me other than the typical stand and shoot. Good for shooting units off objectives but it's hard to claim them in a small game. 

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7 hours ago, Saxon said:

I played last night against Khorne with 6 banners and had 8 command points at the end of the game. I lost by a single wound!!!!!!! We played shifting objectives and his blood secrator held the key objective on turn 5 and i could only get 4 wounds on him.  I was one failed save away from tabling him. 

The hardest part i've found with my freeguild heavy list is that having all these command points and abilities does nothing for me other than the typical stand and shoot. Good for shooting units off objectives but it's hard to claim them in a small game. 

Remember the 3 new generic Command Abilities! Re-rolling 1 to-hit either for missile or melee weapons and re-rolling saving throws of 1. 
Getting that sweet re-roll on 2+/2+ handgunners is really good. Demigryph knights get deadlier too. 

In regards to capturing objectives, if you feel like you are not mobile enough think about getting some Shadow Warriors. While they don't have any banners, deep striking is quite useful. 

Edited by Gecktron
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1 hour ago, Gecktron said:

Remember the 3 new generic Command Abilities! Re-rolling 1 to-hit either for missile or melee weapons and re-rolling saving throws of 1. 
Getting that sweet re-roll on 2+/2+ handgunners is really good. Demigryph knights get deadlier too. 

In regards to capturing objectives, if you feel like you are not mobile enough think about getting some Shadow Warriors. While they don't have any banners, deep striking is quite useful. 

Can me please point me towards the generic command ability that works for missile weapons? 

I see hammerhall has righteous purpose which works for missile only? Thanks. 

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2 minutes ago, Saxon said:

Can me please point me towards the generic command ability that works for missile weapons? 

I see hammerhall has righteous purpose which works for missile only? Thanks. 

The current Generals Handbook, in the Matched Play section. 

Righteous Purpose allows a unit to pile-in and fight a second time. So it works only for melee weapons. 

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I'm going to be experimenting with Aventis Firestrike in my Freeguild list. He won't be the general, obviously, but because he's a similar points cost and brings more utility than a griffon general (and is also fluffy) I'm going to trial him. Wings of Fire is a really important spell as I run a unit of 6 demigryphs, and my standard list only has a battlemage on a balewind to cast it, but that's vulnerable. He won't be as killy as a griffon, but my army has tons of damage already, so I think his utility will make him a better choice. It's ironic that he can be more useful in a non-stormcast army since he gains the Hammerhal command ability and spells.

Alternatively, the principle is the same with the generic tauralon. Granted it'll still be the same model. That way he can have Twinstone and make the griffon entirely irrelevant.

On another note, I don't like Stormcast collectively, but when it is a single demigod leading an army of mortals they get a lot more interesting and thematic for me.

My list building methods are always to make the army cohesive and competent, but not necessarily competitive. I'm also a Freeguild player, so no other factions are involved.

 

The list:

Spoiler

 

Freeguild of Hammerhal

w/ Aventis

 

-Freeguild General (General) (Blood of the Twelve) (Twinstone) 100

-Aventis Firestrike 340 (Wings of Fire)

-Battlemage (Hysh) (Pha’s Protection) (Wings of Fire) (Advisor) 90

 

-40 Freeguild Guard (swords) 280

-30 Freeguild Greatswords 420

-10 Handgunners 100

-10 Handgunners 100

-10 Handgunners 100

-10 Freeguild Guard (halberds) (Retinue) 80

-6 Demigryph Knights (Lances) 360

 

 

1970

 

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On 11/13/2019 at 4:38 PM, Duke of Gisoreux said:

What do you think about this list?
 

Replying only a month late! 

Have you had some games with the list? 

Have you tried putting in a ghyran battlemage to give gotrek a little more mobility? 

I like the inclusion of the frostheart. A lot of the hammerhal lists on this thread have a big freeguild focus. I've no complaints about that, I just happen not to be into pantaloons myself. It seems to me like frostheart phoenix's would make good use of the command ability because they can move forward fast, survive combat to fight again at the end of the round and it compensates for their main downside which is that their damage isn't that great. So I've been wondering if anyone has tried out frostheart(s) in hammerhal and could say how it went? 

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On 12/16/2019 at 4:43 AM, Dankboss said:

I'm going to be experimenting with Aventis Firestrike in my Freeguild list. He won't be the general, obviously, but because he's a similar points cost and brings more utility than a griffon general (and is also fluffy) I'm going to trial him. Wings of Fire is a really important spell as I run a unit of 6 demigryphs, and my standard list only has a battlemage on a balewind to cast it, but that's vulnerable. He won't be as killy as a griffon, but my army has tons of damage already, so I think his utility will make him a better choice. It's ironic that he can be more useful in a non-stormcast army since he gains the Hammerhal command ability and spells.

Alternatively, the principle is the same with the generic tauralon. Granted it'll still be the same model. That way he can have Twinstone and make the griffon entirely irrelevant.

On another note, I don't like Stormcast collectively, but when it is a single demigod leading an army of mortals they get a lot more interesting and thematic for me.

My list building methods are always to make the army cohesive and competent, but not necessarily competitive. I'm also a Freeguild player, so no other factions are involved.

 

The list:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

Freeguild of Hammerhal

 

w/ Aventis

 

 

 

-Freeguild General (General) (Blood of the Twelve) (Twinstone) 100

 

-Aventis Firestrike 340 (Wings of Fire)

 

-Battlemage (Hysh) (Pha’s Protection) (Wings of Fire) (Advisor) 90

 

 

 

-40 Freeguild Guard (swords) 280

 

-30 Freeguild Greatswords 420

 

-10 Handgunners 100

 

-10 Handgunners 100

 

-10 Handgunners 100

 

-10 Freeguild Guard (halberds) (Retinue) 80

 

-6 Demigryph Knights (Lances) 360

 

 

 

 

 

1970

 

 

I really like that list! Have you had any successes so far with it? I want to try and find a use for aventis but I cannot really find a use for him besides having him just for a command point.

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2 hours ago, Acid_Nine said:

I really like that list! Have you had any successes so far with it? I want to try and find a use for aventis but I cannot really find a use for him besides having him just for a command point.

I wouldn't take him as the general, but when you start comparing him to a griffon general he actually starts to look good on paper. He has less damage and doesn't give +1 to hit, but that's really the main downside; he can give Demigryphs reroll 1s which is enough. I think his double casting and the spells/ command ability he gains from Hammerhal is what's needed to make him viable. A regular tauralon with Twinstone is also possible.

If he's in enemy territory he'll be making 16 attacks at damage 2/d3 by the end of the turn and unlike the griffon he doesn't degrade in power as he's wounded. Considering how many CPs Hammerhal farms he'll be striking twice, and even use his own command ability for +1 wound for himself, all the time.

Now I don't think he'll work in every list, but I have a lot of infantry to move around so a stable caster for Wings of Fire is pretty important. I can't rely on a battlewizard. He'll also be running with my Demigryphs, as the griffon would.

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Small update:
I've had great success using Saint's Blade on my griffon general with Runesword. He's doing 6-9 damage with his sword alone in one activation. 5 attacks, 2+ 4+ -2 3 damage (when on an objective which is always) is really really solid for a rider's attacks. If you take Saint's Blade, I would suggest putting it on the sword, as it's flat damage is more consistent than the hammer. He cut through 10 chaos warriors, a sorceror and 2 manticore lords.

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27 minutes ago, Dankboss said:

Small update:
I've had great success using Saint's Blade on my griffon general with Runesword. He's doing 6-9 damage with his sword alone in one activation. 5 attacks, 2+ 4+ -2 3 damage (when on an objective which is always) is really really solid for a rider's attacks. If you take Saint's Blade, I would suggest putting it on the sword, as it's flat damage is more consistent than the hammer. He cut through 10 chaos warriors, a sorceror and 2 manticore lords.

I was just thinking about what weapon to give my Freeguild General on Griffon. So thank you very much!

While I like the twin-stones conceptually, there arent enough multi wound models in my army to be worth it. I think im going for that blade in my next game (or both when I run the Lancers battalion). 

Any updates on your success with Aventis? I was planning on getting him soon... 

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42 minutes ago, Gecktron said:

I was just thinking about what weapon to give my Freeguild General on Griffon. So thank you very much!

While I like the twin-stones conceptually, there arent enough multi wound models in my army to be worth it. I think im going for that blade in my next game (or both when I run the Lancers battalion). 

Any updates on your success with Aventis? I was planning on getting him soon... 

Only two games with Aventis so far vs StoD. He performed fine but I really need to use him more get a good idea. Also, Twinstone isn't normally needed on a griffon since his command ability does the same thing for Freeguild and healing on a 4+ isn't great.

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16 hours ago, kenshin620 said:

Do you think a big block of Executiors with a Sorceress would make sense for a Hammerhal list? Trying to double fight, fishing for Mortal Wounds (and aelves are faster to getting into the enemy territory).

Any time you consider executioners, try to free some points for black guard instead. Take executioners only if you're really pressed for points. It's not that executioners are bad. Just.. black guard are basically the same but better in all but the craziest matchups. Mortal wound on 6 is, en masse, straight up worse than -1 rend unless you're fighting something with  like 2+ re-rollable save. Plus black guard come with their own +1 to hit, so don't need a hurricanum bubble (which is good considering how fast they can get)

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8 hours ago, dekay said:

Any time you consider executioners, try to free some points for black guard instead. Take executioners only if you're really pressed for points. It's not that executioners are bad. Just.. black guard are basically the same but better in all but the craziest matchups. Mortal wound on 6 is, en masse, straight up worse than -1 rend unless you're fighting something with  like 2+ re-rollable save. Plus black guard come with their own +1 to hit, so don't need a hurricanum bubble (which is good considering how fast they can get)

Not going to argue that the suggestion for him, if they are to protect a sorceress and no Hurricanum is in range, that the Executioners are better. But that is purely due to the +1 hit.

Assuming both gets +1 hit Blackguard is better across all saves except for 6+. The difference then is only their range and a point of bravery (I think?).

 

In the chart, you can also see that MW (with attack sequence ending) is better than -1 rend. Assuming https://aos-statshammer.herokuapp.com/ works.
image.png.a3f3684c0f776ce64f2ff7e64e37579e.png

 

Edited by Rune
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7 minutes ago, Rune said:

In the chart, you can also see that MW (with attack sequence ending) is better than -1 rend. Assuming https://aos-statshammer.herokuapp.com/ works.

You are right, I am wrong, and that opens some interesting avenues, honestly. I must have done something wrong with initial calculations.

Ok, so, update: There are many situations where taking Executioners has advantages. In the age of re-rollable 3+ battlelines, these might get more common still.

Still, if I was taking them, it'd be full 30. That last 10 is, with horde discount, extremely cheap.

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42 minutes ago, dekay said:

Still, if I was taking them, it'd be full 30. That last 10 is, with horde discount, extremely cheap.

I do find it slightly annoying that there is no horde discount for Blackguard, while all the other equivalent elite units do.  30 Blackguard are the same points as 30 Greatswords or 30 Pheonix Guard - at which point you are better off taking either of them.  I have 10 Executioners and 10 Blackguard painted and have been wondering which to add to.  Seems like Executioners are the more efficient route.

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