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Every other city has a discussion, so why not create one for the best one in age of sigmar?¬†ūüėȬ†

Seriously though, I personally think this city can really help connect the different keywords we have and allow us to use each one effectively with all the chances to get command points.  Plus, these guys could have some good combos with relics and command abilities and some bigger units.

I mentioned it in the overall discussion, but having a stormdrake from this city rush an objective could be terrifying with the command traits and relic choices given to us. As long as you have him in your opponents territory and have a spare command point, that extra attack  activation could turn the tide of a game!

Edited by Acid_Nine
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I chose Hammerhal for my force. Really excited to try them out this weekend. 

For my 1000 point list I chose a MSU approach. 3x10 Handgunners, (all with long rifles to snipe a few small heroes at the start of the game) and 2x10 Guards with shields (for screening) to maximize the banners in my army. 

I made a general on foot my warlord (blood of the twelve, the twinstones) to buff my core units while a Battlemage act as adjutant. 

Im not sure about the support elements. Right now I have 2 Rocket Batteries and one Cogsmith but im not sure if Hammerhal is the right city for Artillery support...

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as a note about warding brands, I believe the enemy has to keep attacking even if they kill the unit until all their eligible attacks are finished.

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15 hours ago, Gecktron said:

Im not sure about the support elements. Right now I have 2 Rocket Batteries and one Cogsmith but im not sure if Hammerhal is the right city for Artillery support...

I'd say artillery support belongs in every city.

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84763174_WhatsAppImage2019-10-05at18_29_36.jpeg.198c48647e561d9ab6cd946023186986.jpeg

I just played a 1000p game versus the new Orruks. The battleshock immunity was really useful and I liked the utility of the long rifles (I sniped his shaman in turn 2). I got the extra CP from the banners surprisingly often, all while I failed every single one of the adjutant rolls. 

Getting all my units within the auras of the general was surprisingly easy! 

Only thing I would change is switching out the cannons for some outriders or demigryphs. 

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I started a Hammerhal force when the ‚ÄėWarriors of the Great Cities‚Äô box sets came out last year. Looking to take it up to 2k now. The theme is Griffons! All of the Griffons!

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Alright lads and ladettes, here's my plan:

40 Flagellants, plus additional to taste.

Celestial Hurricanum with Celestial Battlemage, with Blood of the Twelve command trait, Twinstone artifact, and Wings of Fire spell

Knight-Azyros

Any additional charge/move enhancers or enemy movement debuffers (Battlemage with Wildform, Mystifying Miasma, or Transmutation of Lead, Chronomantic Cogs, Soulsnare Shackles, etc.

A bit of luck with battleplans.

The idea here is to get the Flagellants to charge into enemy territory with the Hurricanum and Knight-Azyros in close proximity. This will lead to them hitting on 2s (+1 each for charge, Hurricanum, and Twinstone), re-rolling 1s (Knight-Azyros), and wounding on 3s (+1 for charging), re-rolling 1s (Blood of the Twelve), and then attacking again at the end of the phase (Righteous Purpose command ability). Since they'll be attacking at least once after they've been attacked, they'll get extra attacks beyond their initial 2. 

It's a bit of an all-or-nothing strategy, but I'm definitely going to try it at least once.

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5 hours ago, StapMyVitals said:

 

Im not sure about this. On the one hand, you are making good use of the spells, artefacts and warlord traits of Hammerhal but I think you are missing out on the CP related abilities without any banners. Getting 2-3 extra CP every round is very powerfull thanks to the three new generic Command Abilities. 

Have you thought about a Phoenicium army? I think flaggelants could work very well in that city!

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So what is the most efficient size for Demigriffons? I wanted to make a big squad of six just to hit hard on the charge, but I worry about the base size for them not allowing me to get everyone in.

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14 hours ago, Acid_Nine said:

So what is the most efficient size for Demigriffons? I wanted to make a big squad of six just to hit hard on the charge, but I worry about the base size for them not allowing me to get everyone in.

I think 6 is a good number for lance knights as they have 2" on their main weapons. Sure, the demigryphs only have 1" on their claws but I think if you depend on the claws you charged the wrong target. Demigryph knights are at their strongest when they can wipe out an enemy on the charge. 

Smaller, halberd equiped units are, in my opinion, better suited for prolonged combat. 

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22 hours ago, Gecktron said:

I think 6 is a good number for lance knights as they have 2" on their main weapons. Sure, the demigryphs only have 1" on their claws but I think if you depend on the claws you charged the wrong target. Demigryph knights are at their strongest when they can wipe out an enemy on the charge. 

Smaller, halberd equiped units are, in my opinion, better suited for prolonged combat. 

Some quick mathhammer on this:

A squad of 3 Demigryphs is going to get 9 attacks with their claws, and then 9-10 attacks with either lances or halberds (9 if you are counting up by 3 in a larger unit, 10 if you are on your own).  The beak and talons hit on 3+/3+, which is going to give you 9 attacks with 6 hitting on average, and then 4 wounding on average with an average of 1 mortal wound.  For ease of argument, if you are attacking something with either a 6+ save or no save, this is 5 wounds. 

Meanwhile, your halberds are... doing the exact same thing but with a 2" reach and no mortal wounds.  So this means that a squad of 3 with halberds is doing 9.4 damage before saves, while a squad of 6 is doing 18.4 assuming that all your guys get stuck in.

If you run lances instead, then your 3+/4+ is giving you 9-10 attacks with 6-6.67 hits on average, which then leads to 3-3.33 wounds on average.  If you didn't charge, this is 3-3.33 damage (and only against a - save), or 6-6.67 if you did charge.  Combining this with the mounts, and a squad of 3 with lances is going to be doing 8.33 damage when not on a charge, or 11.67 damage on the charge, while a squad of 6 is doing 16 damage not on the charge, and 22.67 damage on the charge.

However, all these numbers change if you are running the battalion.  The battalion adds +1 to hit and wound on the charge, which means hitting on a 2+/2+ for the mounts and halberds, and 2+/3+ with the lances.  2+/2+ is ~70% hit chance, while a 2+/3+ is about 55% hit chance.  This means that on the charge, the demigryphs are hitting 7.5 times, and then wounding 6.25 times, with 1.25 mortal wounds for every 3 demigryphs.  Halberds are doing 7 damage in a squad of 3, and 6.25 more for each additional 3.  So a squad of 3 halberds are doing 14.5 damage on the charge, while a squad of 6 is doing 27.25 damage.  Meanwhile, the lances are doing 11.1 damage on the charge for the first 3, and 10 damage for each additional 5 for a total of 18.6 damage in a squad of 3 and 17.5 for each additional 3 (36.1 damage for a squad of 6).

Overall, the conclusion of this is to not discount the power of the claws.  Additionally, getting a charge off with the battalion is a 80% increase in power over non-charging halberds (in or out of battalion), while getting a charge off with lances in the battalion 110% increase in power over not getting a charge off and an 80% increase in power over getting a charge off without the battalion bonuses.

So the question then is how do you want to use your Demi's?  Are you looking for something that can get stuck in and fight for a while?  Rush forward and hold a capture point?  Then go with halberds with a group of 3-6 depending on how many points you can dedicate to this.  Are you looking to get a hard-charging army to come in and blast things and hope it dies on the charge?  Get a squad of 6 with lances, and use the battalion.

From my own experiences playing with fast movers (evocats and fulminators with stormcast, and dragon blades/dragons with Order Draconis), without some setup you are going to struggle to get charges off regularly without a good bit of setup because you lack the ability to retreat/charge or run/charge.  If you want to run the Battalion, I would get a block of 6 Demi's with lances, and then 2 blocks of 3 with halberds, and then fill the rest of your army out with things that can kill chaff and pin things into place.  If you aren't running the Battalion, then get a block of 6 with Halberds and forget about the lances.

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22 hours ago, Gecktron said:

I think 6 is a good number for lance knights as they have 2" on their main weapons. Sure, the demigryphs only have 1" on their claws but I think if you depend on the claws you charged the wrong target. Demigryph knights are at their strongest when they can wipe out an enemy on the charge. 

Smaller, halberd equiped units are, in my opinion, better suited for prolonged combat. 

So basically how I would build my Idoneth, with the non charge guys being used as a screen while the lancers are 6 man squads. 

 

Also, these griffon knights are insane with some buffs on them. may be hard to pull off on the table, but having a squad of 6 with the re-roll 1 universal command ability on them charging under the Lancer's battalion bubble seems like it would hit like a truck. 2+ to hit re-rolling 1's, 3+ to wound with a 2- rend and 2 damage? That's just insane to think about! Add the Blood of the twelve command trait and... and yikes. 

 

@readercolin nice report on their damage! well put, and it shows how good this battalion can be! Can you do the same in the Idoneth deep kin forum post for Morrsarr Guard?

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I normally use a unit of 6 Demigriphs with lances. Has always seemed a solid size for the unit and they normally make a mess of most things they come across. 

Would be interested to see if there is a role for small units of 3 though. Would love to be able to run the battalion.

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On 10/9/2019 at 4:49 PM, Acid_Nine said:

Idoneth deep kin forum post for Morrsarr Guard?

On the charge:

per unit of 3 with a Prince on the charge assuming the save is negated by the rend.

9,33 wounds for the riders

3+3 wounds  potential for the eels (Excluding armor)

a unit of 6 

17,33 wounds for the riders

6 + 6 wounds potential for the eels (excluding armor)

Edited by JackStreicher
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11 hours ago, JackStreicher said:

On the charge:

per unit of 3 with a Prince on the charge assuming the save is negated by the rend.

9,33 wounds for the riders

3+3 wounds  potential for the eels (Excluding armor)

a unit of 6 

17,33 wounds for the riders

6 + 6 wounds potential for the eels (excluding armor)

Thank you! I think though a little less wounds than the demigryphs knights, I think they still match up pretty well. Honestly, my dream game is doing a battle of  Pelannor fields or something, with Morrsarr guard, demigryph knights and other order knights versus an army of chaos knights, blood crushers and the like. Hammerhall is just one step closer to this dream!

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I think if is too generic seeming. The others give people something to latch onto and build around where hammerhal does not, just generically useful. Sometimes restrictions breed creativity. 

There is also a good amount of +cp abilities so the main +1/6 cps per unit per turn isn't as strong as I'd thought it would be.

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3 hours ago, NinthMusketeer said:

So it seems like Hammerhal has much less interest than other cities. Anyone have any ideas as to why?

I think it is because they want it to be very mallable. It can choose two realms (which Phoenicium should have been able to, I mean, life and fire are the defining things of phoenixes), it has bonus for getting a lot of small stuff, but also has a 1000 point minimum batallion. So whether you like playing broad, or elite, life or fire, Hammerhal has something for you.

Less focus makes it a bit blander though.

There is a good chance my Hammerhal army will be the first one to finish even though my focus was more on Tempest's eye, but that's because I already had some demis and a general on griffin painted, easier to get that up to 2k that way.

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So, I was thinking about Hammerhal and Handgunner again.

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I was building a 1500 points list for a friendly match against Fyreslayers and I looked at my central handgunners block. Do you guys think its better to combine the gunners into one unit or keep them seperated.

On the one hand, 10 gunner units cant afford to lose even a single model. But on the other hand, close combat focused armies will have to tear trough my screen all while I can farm up to three additional CP trough the additonal banners. 

What do you guys think? Is MSU a viable approach for Hammerhal armies or should I rather treat it as a nice bonus but nothing to build my army around?

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17 hours ago, zilberfrid said:

(which Phoenicium should have been able to, I mean, life and fire are the defining things of phoenixes),

I think the problem is that they established the big cities in the beginning of AoS before they decided to make Malign Sorcery, and also limited the main cities to 2 realms.

Shouldn't Anvilgard be Ulgu or Ghur? Shouldn't Greywater Fastness be Chamon or Aqysh?

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1 hour ago, kenshin620 said:

I think the problem is that they established the big cities in the beginning of AoS before they decided to make Malign Sorcery, and also limited the main cities to 2 realms.

Shouldn't Anvilgard be Ulgu or Ghur? Shouldn't Greywater Fastness be Chamon or Aqysh?

Yeah, the placement is pretty bad. Even when keeping it to two realms, switching greywater and anvilgard, and giving phoenicium the right combo was much more logical

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I think it shows the diversity in locations in the realms, and how it's the cities personalities that can shape the landscape to match their whims, imposing order on the realms where they see fit, but to each their own I guess.

I'm thinking hammerhal isn't getting enough love because nothing really stands out per say, but I personally think it's the best because it helps give the vehicle to our armies to really try for a mixed force style list. Having a line of Dread spears or dwarfs in the back field wouldn't feel the same without having the ability to bring their hero along with them to buff them up, and to use all the myriad of buffs you really need a whole lot of command points in order to make every part of the army shine. 

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Hey guys, pretty excited about the prospect of a griffon based army and Hammerhal is the place for it with the sweet battalion. Any thoughts on this list? Especially regarding weapon/relic set ups of the two characters. 

Allegiance: Cities of Sigmar
- City: Hammerhal

Leaders
Freeguild General on Griffon (320)
- General
- Lance
Lord-Aquilor (180)

Battleline
3 x Demigryph Knights (180)
- Lance and Sword
3 x Demigryph Knights (180)
- Lance and Sword
6 x Demigryph Knights (360)
- Cavalry Halberd

Units
3 x Vanguard-Palladors (180)
- Boltstorm Pistols and Starstrike Javelins
3 x Vanguard-Palladors (180)
- Boltstorm Pistols and Starstrike Javelins
6 x Gryph-Hounds (140)
6 x Gryph-Hounds (140)

Battalions
Hammerhalian Lancers (140)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 134
 

Edited by Rogue Sun

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17 minutes ago, Rogue Sun said:

Hey guys, pretty excited about the prospect of a griffon based army and Hammerhal is the place for it with the sweet battalion. Any thoughts on this list? Especially regarding weapon/relic set ups of the two characters. 

First thing first, I dont think your list is legal. You can only take 1 SCE unit for every 3 CoS units. So you would need 15 CoS units to fit in your 5 Stormcast units. 

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Played a small game today against nighthaunt using the following:

General (100)

10 Greatswords (160)

10 guard (80)

10 guard (80)

20 handgunners (200)

5 pistoliers (100)

The greatswords are the stars with their boosted abilities. Keeping them in the centre with a free guild general gives them 2+ to hit. The command ability righteous purpose also gets them to fight first. 

Ignoring battleshock in your own territory is also hugely useful. 

Didn't manage to get too many extra CPs with 4 banners. Very hit and miss.

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