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Tempest Eye Discussion

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2 hours ago, Ravinsild said:

I guess, to use an analogy, I am trying to squeeze as much juice as humanly possible out of THESE oranges, rather than simply using a different fruit, like say grapes or apples or lemons. 

And that's totally cool, which is why I also begun with asking if you were looking for something purely dwarven. I've tried quite a few dwarf heavy lists, I really really wanted the Hammerers to work great, but been struggling with that. One of my favourite lists does include 30 Irondrake, 10 Longbeards , a Gyrocopter and a runelord though. 

You can do this, and it's probably equally strong. I would pair the Hurricanum with the evocators though. Sometimes you'll be in range of both though. 

Allegiance: Cities of Sigmar
- City: Tempest's Eye

Leaders
Celestial Hurricanum With Celestial Battlemage (280)
- Lore of Eagles: Aura of Glory
Runelord (90)
- General
- Command Trait: Hawk-eyed
- Artefact: Patrician's Helm
Anointed of Asuryan on Frostheart Phoenix (320)
Battlemage (90)
- Lore of Eagles: Strike of Eagles
- City Role: General's Adjutant
Knight-Heraldor (100)

Battleline
20 x Irondrakes (300)
10 x Longbeards (110)
- Ancestral Weapons & Shields
10 x Longbeards (110)
- Ancestral Weapons & Shields

Units
6 x Evocators on Dracolines (520)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Soulscream Bridge (80)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 108

 

1 hour ago, Gwendar said:

 😉A Soulscream Bridge in CoS is an easily read 1-trick pony that any experienced player will shut down for you by not allowing you to make good use of it. It's a main reason I stopped using it in my Skaven lists, and while it has more viability here in CoS, I think it should be used more as a utility later on than something that will net you a goal T1. I know that isn't your biggest point of contention or anything with your decisions, just wanted to add another point that using it comes with learning to gauge the risks involved.

Absolutely a risk to the bridge not going off. But the 100% benefit of a bridge in this list, is that it forces the opponent to screen far up. If they don't, the shooters can bridge in far too close to the vulnerable backline. 

So the opponent has to screen far up, granting the evocators a charge.

If the bridge isn't in the list, the opponent will give you the first turn and go 6" deep in deployment. Loosing TE bonuses, doing nothing turn 1 and risk a double turn against you.

 

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2 hours ago, zilberfrid said:

Is it wholly within the unit or one sister? Wholly within the unit would make them really good for this spell, as they can be a long string.

You measure from a point from a Sister of the Thorn and so long as the unit that the spell is being applied to is wholly within the prescribed limit from that point then it's good to go.

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5 minutes ago, Rune said:

Absolutely a risk to the bridge not going off. But the 100% benefit of a bridge in this list, is that it forces the opponent to screen far up. If they don't, the shooters can bridge in far too close to the vulnerable backline. 

So the opponent has to screen far up, granting the evocators a charge.

If the bridge isn't in the list, the opponent will give you the first turn and go 6" deep in deployment. Loosing TE bonuses, doing nothing turn 1 and risk a double turn against you.

 

I don't disagree, all of my CoS lists have it for this purpose. I was just saying to be wary of the adverse affects it can have along with the good. I find such a strategy typically works better in HH though than it does in TE, that's the thing. Though, my playstyle leans heavier on the less-aggressive side.

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On the subject of endless spells that help the dispossessed side of things. Shouldn’t we be looking for movement blocking spells. I do appreciate the argument of the bridge forcing your opponent to adjust. (Its why I start my Ogor lists with the hunter.) 

but to build on that. Are things like the shackles, prismatic palisade and the shards worth it to delay your opponent or force them into firing lanes. 
(In my group we play with a bit more terrain than average so that will help) 

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36 minutes ago, Rune said:

And that's totally cool, which is why I also begun with asking if you were looking for something purely dwarven. I've tried quite a few dwarf heavy lists, I really really wanted the Hammerers to work great, but been struggling with that. One of my favourite lists does include 30 Irondrake, 10 Longbeards , a Gyrocopter and a runelord though. 

You can do this, and it's probably equally strong. I would pair the Hurricanum with the evocators though. Sometimes you'll be in range of both though. 

Allegiance: Cities of Sigmar
- City: Tempest's Eye

Leaders
Celestial Hurricanum With Celestial Battlemage (280)
- Lore of Eagles: Aura of Glory
Runelord (90)
- General
- Command Trait: Hawk-eyed
- Artefact: Patrician's Helm
Anointed of Asuryan on Frostheart Phoenix (320)
Battlemage (90)
- Lore of Eagles: Strike of Eagles
- City Role: General's Adjutant
Knight-Heraldor (100)

Battleline
20 x Irondrakes (300)
10 x Longbeards (110)
- Ancestral Weapons & Shields
10 x Longbeards (110)
- Ancestral Weapons & Shields

Units
6 x Evocators on Dracolines (520)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Soulscream Bridge (80)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 108

 

Absolutely a risk to the bridge not going off. But the 100% benefit of a bridge in this list, is that it forces the opponent to screen far up. If they don't, the shooters can bridge in far too close to the vulnerable backline. 

So the opponent has to screen far up, granting the evocators a charge.

If the bridge isn't in the list, the opponent will give you the first turn and go 6" deep in deployment. Loosing TE bonuses, doing nothing turn 1 and risk a double turn against you.

 

If I can ask, why an Anointed in Frost Phoenix specifically over say, just the frost Phoenix alone? The CA has no syngery and the 4+ save is well good, but if it’s literally just there for the auras it has... why not just take the bare naked Phoenix? 
 

I had also had a list with 6 Evocators but I think I got gun shy seeing how sparse my list was and thinking “oh its scary to put all my eggs in one basket” although I’ve not crossed it off my list of potentials. 
 

I guess it’s extremely binary this list? Either it does the job turn 1 or it doesn’t? A bit alpha strike? 

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2 minutes ago, Ravinsild said:

If I can ask, why an Anointed in Frost Phoenix specifically over say, just the frost Phoenix alone? The CA has no syngery and the 4+ save is well good, but if it’s literally just there for the auras it has... why not just take the bare naked Phoenix? 
 

I had also had a list with 6 Evocators but I think I got gun shy seeing how sparse my list was and thinking “oh its scary to put all my eggs in one basket” although I’ve not crossed it off my list of potentials. 
 

I guess it’s extremely binary this list? Either it does the job turn 1 or it doesn’t? A bit alpha strike? 

Without the 4+ aftersave it'll die quickly and it's a hero to use generic command abilities from. I definitely think it's worth it, but if you want you can spend those 100 points elsewhere.

 

With the Phoenix (alas better with Hero) you got two good melee units, and a shooting unit in the back. I don't think you'll crumble later in your turns. It's already three threats. Phoenix can definitely make work, and has to be dealt with.

One benefit of having fewer big units is that it increases the value of your buffs. Heralder, Phas Protection and command abilities. A good reason to use them in Tempest Eye is to let them cross the table too. Another good reason is activations. Imagine two units of 3 going at it, you only get to swing with one, and then your opponent can focus the other.

But you can definitely go with 3, if you prefer. I just think it's better with 6, but you should test both :)

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Posted (edited)
On 4/30/2020 at 7:33 AM, zilberfrid said:

Is it wholly within the unit or one sister? Wholly within the unit would make them really good for this spell, as they can be a long string.

One sister.  And yeah there is value in the Sisters of the Thorn.  they are pricey but until you take 8 wounds they can cast (so a 7W M12 caster with ranged shots).  In LC if they have 3 wounds left you get that one sister back up to 2.  Also mobility to cast on a Phoenix and any Endless spell.  

I think their spell can be descent on 30 EG particularly first turn since the EG will likely move up (I'm a Wanderers player so flipping back and forth between LC and TE) and you'll want to get their save better if you get them on an objective.  

Only downside is the models break before you build them, then again while you build them, then while you paint them, then again while you play your first game.  I  converted some old Glade Riders (female chests) an no one cares.  I might try to turn the SotT models into centaurs or something more resilient.  

Edited by Popisdead

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3 hours ago, Popisdead said:

One sister.  And yeah there is value in the Sisters of the Thorn.  they are pricey but until you take 8 wounds they can cast (so a 7W M12 caster with ranged shots).  In LC if they have 3 wounds left you get that one sister back up to 2.  Also mobility to cast on a Phoenix and any Endless spell.  

I think their spell can be descent on 30 EG particularly first turn since the EG will likely move up (I'm a Wanderers player so flipping back and forth between LC and TE) and you'll want to get their save better if you get them on an objective.  

Only downside is the models break before you build them, then again while you build them, then while you paint them, then again while you play your first game.  I  converted some old Glade Riders (female chests) an no one cares.  I might try to turn the SotT models into centaurs or something more resilient.  

Shame about the fragilty, they look really beautiful.

My Glade Riders have become Pistoleers in part, maybe I should convert them back and give the mounts a few Tsaangor horns and split the hooves.

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2 hours ago, zilberfrid said:

Shame about the fragilty, they look really beautiful.

My Glade Riders have become Pistoleers in part, maybe I should convert them back and give the mounts a few Tsaangor horns and split the hooves.

shrugs.  just proxy them and give it a try.  local gamers shouldn't be too upset.  I imagine old glade riders could be found cheaply in the current climate.

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I really like the list of @Ravinsild and it reminds me of one of the Tournament winners with a Tempests Eye list of Dezember 2019

https://www.belloflostsouls.net/2019/12/aos-list-of-the-week-the-tempests-eye-sees-victory.html

looks very competitive! I would like to show you my first iteration of that list with a dark aelfen vibe, some conversion ideas etc. etc.

What do you think? Still competitive (3 instead of 6 Dracolines)?

 

Allegiance: Cities of Sigmar
- City: Tempest's Eye
Mortal Realm: Aqshy
Celestial Hurricanum With Celestial Battlemage (280)
- Artefact: Patrician's Helm
- Lore of Eagles: Aura of Glory
Sorceress on Black Dragon (300)
- General
- Witch Rod
- Command Trait: Hawk-eyed
- Lore of Eagles: Aura of Glory
Sorceress (90)
- Lore of Eagles: Aura of Glory
- City Role: General's Adjutant
30 x Black Guard (420)
30 x Darkshards (300)
10 x Executioners (130)
3 x Evocators on Dracolines (260)
5 x Khinerai Heartrenders (90)
- Allies
Emerald Lifeswarm (50)
Soulscream Bridge (80)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 90 / 400
Wounds: 120

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2 hours ago, Kaleun said:

I really like the list of @Ravinsild and it reminds me of one of the Tournament winners with a Tempests Eye list of Dezember 2019

https://www.belloflostsouls.net/2019/12/aos-list-of-the-week-the-tempests-eye-sees-victory.html

looks very competitive! I would like to show you my first iteration of that list with a dark aelfen vibe, some conversion ideas etc. etc.

What do you think? Still competitive (3 instead of 6 Dracolines)?

 

Allegiance: Cities of Sigmar
- City: Tempest's Eye
Mortal Realm: Aqshy
Celestial Hurricanum With Celestial Battlemage (280)
- Artefact: Patrician's Helm
- Lore of Eagles: Aura of Glory
Sorceress on Black Dragon (300)
- General
- Witch Rod
- Command Trait: Hawk-eyed
- Lore of Eagles: Aura of Glory
Sorceress (90)
- Lore of Eagles: Aura of Glory
- City Role: General's Adjutant
30 x Black Guard (420)
30 x Darkshards (300)
10 x Executioners (130)
3 x Evocators on Dracolines (260)
5 x Khinerai Heartrenders (90)
- Allies
Emerald Lifeswarm (50)
Soulscream Bridge (80)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 90 / 400
Wounds: 120

I think this looks fantastic! I love dark elves! 

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So - the Hurricanum and the Luminark.

What purpose are these in our lists?  And by that, I mean are they focal points?  Where you basically construct a whole army around them?  Or are they more like support, where you bring one along, and it's helpful, but it's more of a smaller element of a bigger picture?

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55 minutes ago, mikethefish said:

So - the Hurricanum and the Luminark.

What purpose are these in our lists?  And by that, I mean are they focal points?  Where you basically construct a whole army around them?  Or are they more like support, where you bring one along, and it's helpful, but it's more of a smaller element of a bigger picture?

ROFL..

LMAO...

Sorry I find this question funny....

I don't use them in my TE lists myself...  But most people take them as a fast moving high wound wizard for spells and a way to dish out some mortal wounds.  But it can only cast one spell per turn (can give buffs to there wizards though).  The movement degrades as they take wounds also...

They are great for Hallowheart but I just feel there are better things to run in Tempest Eye myself.

I have a theory that many of the people who post them in their lists here are actually mainly Hallowheart players who dabble in TE with the same model set.... Just a theory mind you.

I have a very different thought process on TE myself which focuses on making normal slow tanking units faster/tankier and fast anvil type units faster and harder hitting.  All my wizards are mounted battlemage types who don't have a degrading profile when they take wounds (mainly SCE) units.  I try to match my units to the alliance abilities basically.

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26 minutes ago, Ashman said:

I have a very different thought process on TE myself which focuses on making normal slow tanking units faster/tankier and fast anvil type units faster and harder hitting.  All my wizards are mounted battlemage types who don't have a degrading profile when they take wounds (mainly SCE) units.  I try to match my units to the alliance abilities basically.

Aside from using mounted mages, I have a similar army list design

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14 minutes ago, mikethefish said:

Aside from using mounted mages, I have a similar army list design

A fast moving mage casting Aura of Glory can make alot of cavalry units pretty nasty.  Extra attacks in combat phase on Demi Gryphs? Endrinriggers? Vanguard Palladors?  YES PLEASE AND THANK YOU.  My favorite for doing this is SCE's Lord Arcanum on Gryph Charger - he can essentially teleport to where he is needed (in addition to moving 12" normally with a 3+ save; which is 2+ turn 1) and he can even resurrect/heal other SCE units.  

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Posted (edited)
On 5/8/2020 at 8:30 PM, mikethefish said:

So - the Hurricanum and the Luminark.

What purpose are these in our lists?  And by that, I mean are they focal points?  Where you basically construct a whole army around them?  Or are they more like support, where you bring one along, and it's helpful, but it's more of a smaller element of a bigger picture?

No no forget all the spells, the mortal wounds and what-ever-what. Those are just peanuts and small addons. The Hurricanum is a big buff generator that gives all of your Cities-keyworded units +1 to hit and +1 to cast. You might take the Luminark maybe more for the damage, but it gives a defensive buff of wound/mortal wound denial on a 6+. Note that you can give Stormcast units also the Cities of Sigmar Keyword.

Now in bigger armies your return of investment of the Hurricanum is greater. It is far less interesting to use it on a 1000 point army then on a 2000 points one. You dont necessarily have the build a whole army around it, because it helps every unit, but you must see that you run into the problems that typical Daughters of Khaine lists have. The focus and castle around an important support unit. The hurricanum can have downsides and thats why the bridge looks so good in those armies.

Lastly take a look on the winning tournament lists of Cities of Sigmar. The hurricanum is a candidate for the must have units in tournaments.

Edited by Kaleun

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On 5/8/2020 at 12:30 PM, mikethefish said:

So - the Hurricanum and the Luminark.

What purpose are these in our lists?  And by that, I mean are they focal points?  Where you basically construct a whole army around them?  Or are they more like support, where you bring one along, and it's helpful, but it's more of a smaller element of a bigger picture?

The hurricanum is a support piece in that it can buff anything and goes in nearly any list.  You don't have to build the army around it, but it improves nearly every army just by being in there. Lets highlight the important line:

Add 1 to hit rolls for attacks made by friendly Cities of Sigmar models within range of the Portents of Battle ability of any friendly Celestial Hurricanums

This line right here is why you bring a hurricanum.  How important is this line?

Lets take an example of Irondrakes.  With their base stats, a unit of 10 irondrakes will do an average of 9.78 damage before saves.  Now, if we add in either a hurricanum of hawk eyed buff, this is going to bump up to a an average of 12.22 damage - a 25% increase in damage.  Add in the other, and this brings our damage up to 15.28 on average - another 25% increase over having just one, or a 56% increase over having neither.

For another example, lets look at outriders.  A unit of outriders will do an average of 3.33 damage before saves.  Add hawk eyed and that bumps to 4.17.  Just a hurricanum and we are now at 5 damage.  Both and we are at 6.25 damage.  This means that just a hurricanum alone is enough to bump the damage by 50%, while both hurricanum and hawk eyed is enough to bump the damage by 87%.

Now, lets look at where else we can get buffs to hit.  Freeguild can get +1 to hit and wound from the freeguild general (on foot).  The Nomad Prince and the general on griffon both can add +1 to hit to a subset of units.  A few individual units (black guard, greatswords) can get down to a 2+ to hit just by being near a specific type of hero.  Freeguild guard can get down to a 2+ to hit just from numbers.  Eternal Guard can get a 2+ to hit from not moving.  But for most other units, they are stuck getting down to a 3+ to hit (or worse) and there is no other way to add a bonus to hit.  On top of that, the hurricanum provides this buff to individual models in range (no unit wholly within stuff), AND all it requires is being nearby - no command points, no spells, nothing special needed.  This is an effect that is powerful enough that you really have to ask yourself why you aren't running it in every army.

Does every army need a hurricanum?  No.  The ones that need it the least tend to be the ones built around freeguild units.  But most armies can benefit from having a hurricanum in their numbers.  And that isn't even looking at any of the other benefits of the hurricanum, like its mobility, or its ranged attacks, or the fact that you can stick a halfway decent caster on top.

As for the Luminark... it has a laser beam and a 6+ FNP aura.  This is... fine, but at 10 points less than the hurricanum it is rather overpriced.  It can make some lists that are looking for what it brings, but it doesn't have 1 feature that is so overwhelmingly useful as to make it a must have in nearly every list.  It is another support piece, but because it doesn't bring as much to the table statically, it is hard to argue that it deserves the same kind of attention that the hurricanum does.

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I'm looking at allies for Irondrake based Tempest Eyes; they're so good at shooting with a couple Runelords around, and I already have a bunch.  I've tried Greywater when I used steam tanks and Irondrakes, but steam tanks are a little meh.  Tempest Eyes seem to have some extra solid benefits in general. 

However Irondrakes are pretty slow and suck in combat.....what do people think of allying in an Auric Runesmiter with either 10 Hearthguard Berzerkers (with broad-axes?) or is it better to go with 20 Vulkite Berzerkers?  The tunneling from the Runesmiter is what I'm after to get to the enemy backfield.  Then I could maybe use my General on Griffin with Zephyrite Banner to help them get the charge off from tunneling up.

 

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1 hour ago, Lord Krungharr said:

I'm looking at allies for Irondrake based Tempest Eyes; they're so good at shooting with a couple Runelords around, and I already have a bunch.  I've tried Greywater when I used steam tanks and Irondrakes, but steam tanks are a little meh.  Tempest Eyes seem to have some extra solid benefits in general. 

However Irondrakes are pretty slow and suck in combat.....what do people think of allying in an Auric Runesmiter with either 10 Hearthguard Berzerkers (with broad-axes?) or is it better to go with 20 Vulkite Berzerkers?  The tunneling from the Runesmiter is what I'm after to get to the enemy backfield.  Then I could maybe use my General on Griffin with Zephyrite Banner to help them get the charge off from tunneling up.

 

While they are decent, ask yourself whether or not they forward your game plan.  I would ask what you are trying to accomplish with them, and then look to see what alternatives are available.

What does the runesmiter + berzerkers give you?  A deepstriking threat.  Hard-hitting (hearthguard will do ~18 damage to a 6+ save while vulkites will do 14-15 depending upon loadout).  And tough to move (vulkites have either a 4+ or 5+ save and 40 wounds, while hearthguard have a 5+ and effectively 40 wounds unless the runesmiter gets taken out first).

What are some other options for those?

For hard to move and hard hitting, you can run phoenix guard.  20 Phoenix Guard cost 320 points and have just as much hitting power as the hearthguard AND the same number of effective wounds, but don't need hero support to manage that.  However, they aren't deep striking.

For hard hitting and deep striking, you can also bring an Ironclad.  The ironclad does ~16 damage (assuming a volley gun loadout) at 12", and doesn't even need to move into combat to do so.  That also isn't counting the potential of having some arkanaughts or thunderers inside.  That being said... it is significantly more expensive.

For deep striking, you can also run shadow warriors.  Interesting thing to note about them - they are actually better in melee than they are shooting, and if they can deep strike, shoot, and then charge they can push out ~10 damage before saves for every 10 that you bring.  At 110 points per 10, you can bring a block of 30 for the same points as the fyreslayers and they will outdamage the hearthguards all the way till a 2+ save.

If you care about just an extremely mobile threat, you can look to run Evocators on Dracolines.  A set of 3 of these guys without any buffs at all will do as much damage as a block of 10 hearthguard (as long as they get the charge off), and will do ~21 damage before saves if they get empower off.  Plus, with a 15" turn 1 move plus always re-rolling charges (even better if you bring a heraldor along so they can run + charge) they can still threaten a huge amount of the table.

The last fun option for a really mobile threat would be Endrinriggers that are bringing a hurricanum with Aura of Glory along to buff them.  A block of 12 of them with guns + saws (no special weapons) would put out ~15 damage before saves at 12", followed by ~35 damage on the charge, assuming that they could stay with the hurricanum buff the whole time (you might need the thermalrider cloak for the hurricanum to keep up).

Overall, I'm not sure which of the options available would be best for you and your army.  If I had a fyreslayer army already, then I might consider bringing some allies along.  Without already owning them though, it is hard for me to say "yeah, they are the best option available to me" without knowing the rest of your list.  Considering the sheer number of options already available, I would tend to look at one of the other options to see if I could get that to work for me first. 

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11 hours ago, readercolin said:

While they are decent, ask yourself whether or not they forward your game plan.  I would ask what you are trying to accomplish with them, and then look to see what alternatives are available.

What does the runesmiter + berzerkers give you?  A deepstriking threat.  Hard-hitting (hearthguard will do ~18 damage to a 6+ save while vulkites will do 14-15 depending upon loadout).  And tough to move (vulkites have either a 4+ or 5+ save and 40 wounds, while hearthguard have a 5+ and effectively 40 wounds unless the runesmiter gets taken out first).

What are some other options for those?

For hard to move and hard hitting, you can run phoenix guard.  20 Phoenix Guard cost 320 points and have just as much hitting power as the hearthguard AND the same number of effective wounds, but don't need hero support to manage that.  However, they aren't deep striking.

For hard hitting and deep striking, you can also bring an Ironclad.  The ironclad does ~16 damage (assuming a volley gun loadout) at 12", and doesn't even need to move into combat to do so.  That also isn't counting the potential of having some arkanaughts or thunderers inside.  That being said... it is significantly more expensive.

For deep striking, you can also run shadow warriors.  Interesting thing to note about them - they are actually better in melee than they are shooting, and if they can deep strike, shoot, and then charge they can push out ~10 damage before saves for every 10 that you bring.  At 110 points per 10, you can bring a block of 30 for the same points as the fyreslayers and they will outdamage the hearthguards all the way till a 2+ save.

If you care about just an extremely mobile threat, you can look to run Evocators on Dracolines.  A set of 3 of these guys without any buffs at all will do as much damage as a block of 10 hearthguard (as long as they get the charge off), and will do ~21 damage before saves if they get empower off.  Plus, with a 15" turn 1 move plus always re-rolling charges (even better if you bring a heraldor along so they can run + charge) they can still threaten a huge amount of the table.

The last fun option for a really mobile threat would be Endrinriggers that are bringing a hurricanum with Aura of Glory along to buff them.  A block of 12 of them with guns + saws (no special weapons) would put out ~15 damage before saves at 12", followed by ~35 damage on the charge, assuming that they could stay with the hurricanum buff the whole time (you might need the thermalrider cloak for the hurricanum to keep up).

Overall, I'm not sure which of the options available would be best for you and your army.  If I had a fyreslayer army already, then I might consider bringing some allies along.  Without already owning them though, it is hard for me to say "yeah, they are the best option available to me" without knowing the rest of your list.  Considering the sheer number of options already available, I would tend to look at one of the other options to see if I could get that to work for me first. 

Wow, thank you very much for your inputs!  Excellent advice.  I don't already have the Fyreslayers, but I do have a bit of Stormcast already (a kitbashed Lord-Aquilor/Arcanum on gryph-charger).  The Evocators on Dracolines might be the ticket as I think they can be helped out by the Lord-Arcanum.    Then I'm on my way to a small Stormcast army anyways.  

Sticking with a Duardin theme is intriguing, but diversifying my model portfolio makes good sense :)

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On 5/8/2020 at 11:30 AM, mikethefish said:

So - the Hurricanum and the Luminark.

What purpose are these in our lists?  And by that, I mean are they focal points?  Where you basically construct a whole army around them?  Or are they more like support, where you bring one along, and it's helpful, but it's more of a smaller element of a bigger picture?

The +1 to cast, the +1 to hit means it can be a focal point of your defensive core.  The utility a Hurricanum adds is fairly significant.  

I play TE with Wanderers.  So a mass bulk of Sisters of The WAtch behind a block of Eternal Guard.  I have a sorceress  (adjutant) with 10 bleakswords behind.  The Sorceress stabs and gets +3 to cast now.  

That's just my experience and hopefully it is clear or helps :)  

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15 hours ago, Lord Krungharr said:

I'm looking at allies for Irondrake based Tempest Eyes; they're so good at shooting with a couple Runelords around, and I already have a bunch.  I've tried Greywater when I used steam tanks and Irondrakes, but steam tanks are a little meh.  Tempest Eyes seem to have some extra solid benefits in general. 

However Irondrakes are pretty slow and suck in combat.....what do people think of allying in an Auric Runesmiter with either 10 Hearthguard Berzerkers (with broad-axes?) or is it better to go with 20 Vulkite Berzerkers?  The tunneling from the Runesmiter is what I'm after to get to the enemy backfield.  Then I could maybe use my General on Griffin with Zephyrite Banner to help them get the charge off from tunneling up.

 

How many Irondrakes are you running? I was thinking about doing the same as you for my hurricanum blob of 20x drakes and 20x handgunners but I refuse to run *spits* elves in my list. What are you looking to accomplish with the allies? If you need units to tank, get ironbreakers or longbeards. If it's speed, copters, KO ships and balloon boys work well. 

Remember too if you want to deepstrike irondrakes you can always go Living City, that's something I'm looking into atm. Post lists! 

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2 hours ago, Popisdead said:

The +1 to cast, the +1 to hit means it can be a focal point of your defensive core.  The utility a Hurricanum adds is fairly significant.  

I play TE with Wanderers.  So a mass bulk of Sisters of The WAtch behind a block of Eternal Guard.  I have a sorceress  (adjutant) with 10 bleakswords behind.  The Sorceress stabs and gets +3 to cast now.  

That's just my experience and hopefully it is clear or helps :)  

FYI - the hurricanum only gives +1 to battlemages.  So your sorceress will never get a buff from it.

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6 hours ago, ColsBols said:

How many Irondrakes are you running? I was thinking about doing the same as you for my hurricanum blob of 20x drakes and 20x handgunners but I refuse to run *spits* elves in my list. What are you looking to accomplish with the allies? If you need units to tank, get ironbreakers or longbeards. If it's speed, copters, KO ships and balloon boys work well. 

Remember too if you want to deepstrike irondrakes you can always go Living City, that's something I'm looking into atm. Post lists! 

I have 4x10 irondrakes.   Seems like 2x20 is a good amount per unit though I guess for battleliners could make them 2x10 and then 20 if I had a Runelord as General.    I thought about living City, they have some very good bonuses even beyond that outflanking.   I’ll give that a try after my hammerhal experiment tonight using old bull centaurs as demigryph knights.   Seeing what my Chaos dwarves can become and what I should sell off.  

I like my allies to supplement what’s lacking in the main army.   In the case of what I have for Cities I want some durable speedy units that can do at least okay in combat.    

I haven’t looked at KO at all but they seem to be much more popular with the Tempest Eye rules.  I think I’m leaning towards some Stormcast Evocators on Dracolines    Not even allies really but as readercolin pointed out they have a good set of features that I’m looking for.  

I’ll post my experimental game with lists tomorrow.   Gonna be Lancers of Hammerhal vs Grand Alliance Chaos (w Tyrants of Blood and three Magma cannnons!)

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5 hours ago, readercolin said:

FYI - the hurricanum only gives +1 to battlemages.  So your sorceress will never get a buff from it.

Ah missed that.

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