Dr Ben Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 Has it be said anywhere if we can use compatible battalions from other grand alliance order books? I've been a bit confused about the issue since the beasts of chaos book. Grudgebound warthrong is out due to the requirement to have an unforged which isn't in CoS and dispossessed aren't allies. It would be very tight on the unit number requirement but an aetherstrike force or iron sky squadron might be a fun inclusion. I suppose the same would also go for any of the stormcast battalions but they're not duardin so I'm less interested! 28 minutes ago, FPC said: Nah just 30 more points, 480 to 450. Either way the big takeaway is...either unit is scary! 27 minutes ago, Rahatlin said: Yea i was sure they have 30units discount aswell but checked book and they dont 😕 Shots come before attacks and if he walk instead of charge means you have 1 more turn of shooting. But yea - they are 80 pts more for 30 so 😕 1 minute ago, Rivener said: You can also grumble irondrakes to let them reroll wound rolls of 1. I've been thinking irondrakes would be better in 10 man units so you can get more grudgehammer torpedoes for monster sniping mini-cannons on. Less efficient for runelord -1 rend buff, but hawk-eyed, hurricanum and longbeard buffs are all AOE so multiple units isn't a problem there. Is there something I'm missing? On 10/8/2019 at 4:26 PM, Ruvich said: anyone seeing toys from the Kharadron Overlords, like Ironclads/Gunhaulers in a CoS army? As of right now, I am not very sure if I want to use one of those in a possible CoS army of mine..but damn, the ironclad is so beautiful. x.x Ironclad buffed by a lord Ordinator with hawk-eyed and a hurricanum is as much righteous duardin firepower as you are going to get out of one. Plus you can have proper chaff units for protection. Might as well give it a go and see how it works out! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FPC Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 1 minute ago, Dr Ben said: 4 minutes ago, Rivener said: I've been thinking irondrakes would be better in 10 man units so you can get more grudgehammer torpedoes for monster sniping mini-cannons on. Less efficient for runelord -1 rend buff, but hawk-eyed, hurricanum and longbeard buffs are all AOE so multiple units isn't a problem there. Is there something I'm missing? Nope, not missing anything. Was just making a point about their usefulness and it seems fair to look at what a max unit can put out. Also, the Runelord bit is a big part of why I myself would likely run larger units. A few extra Grudgehammer shots certainly would be nice, but in all honestly if I NEED a monster dead, I will be contributing more than just 2-3 torpedoes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoshiya Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 Whilst originally attracted to Anvilgard for Kharibdyss, the more I look at Tempest Eye the more I’m falling in love with the idea behind it. As such I’ve been tinkering with a semi-narrative list I want to build at some point whilst still keeping it playable. I’ve come up with the following, which is based around the idea of a small orrery around half way up the mountain being used as bait for an attack that was seen coming, the small defense force of Battlemages, Freeguild and Dispossessed being a seemingly easy fight before fast moving reinforcements come rushing down the mountain and shadow warriors that have already encircled the enemy reveal themselves. 1000pts Freeguild General on Griffon (Sword and Shield(?), General, Swift as the Wind) - 320pts Battlemage (Wildform, Eagle Strike, CP on 4+ artefact) - 90pts Outriders x5 - 100pts Pistolers x5 - 100pts Freeguild Guard (Sword and Shield) x20 - 160pts Shadow Warriors x10 - 110pts Shadow Warriors x10 - 110pts Total - 990pts 2000pts changes Increase size of Outriders and Pistolers to 10, add another unit of 10 Pistolers and battalion (520pts) Battlemage (white or jade, aura of glory) - 90pts Runelord - 90pts Irondrakes x 20 - 300pts Total - 1990pts Currently not sure what to do with the second artefact and which spell to take for try second battlemage. I’ll probably end up giving the Runelord the one that lets you ignore battleshock for my backline if Freeguild and Irondrakes. As for the battlemage, I am torn between a white mage to give direct protection to the General on the charge, or a jade one, to disencourage counter charges when the General gets stuck in turn 1 whilst the enemy army is more healthy (the threat of d3 mortal wounds could keep foot duelists heroes away) and then can be used later on to keep weakened units away from my Freeguild. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkhanist Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 (edited) 12 hours ago, Dr Ben said: Has it be said anywhere if we can use compatible battalions from other grand alliance order books? I've been a bit confused about the issue since the beasts of chaos book. Battalions are a complete and utter mess - see recent topic for discussion. For our purposes, the most relevent part is the core rulebook FAQ, bolded Quote Q: The rules say that a warscroll battalion can include allies and that they don’t count against the number of allies in the army. Does this rule only apply to battalions that share the same allegiance as the army, but that have units from two different factions (a battalion in a Daughters of Khaine army that has Daughters of Khaine and Stormcast Eternals units, for example)? A: Yes. The faction a warscroll battalion belongs to is shown on its warscroll, above the title of the battalion. In addition, the battalion is assumed to belong to the Grand Alliance that its faction is a part of. Warscroll battalions that share the same allegiance as an army can always be taken as part of the army, and if they include any allied units, these units do not count against the limits on the number of allies the army can have (or against the points limit that can be spent on allies in a Pitched Battle). An army can include a warscroll battalion of a different allegiance to the rest of the army, but if it does so the units in it do count against the limits on the number of allies the army can have (and the points for the battalion and the units in it count against the points limit that can be spent on allies in a Pitched Battle). So the warthrong can't be taken, as you say, as at a minimum a) unforged can only be taken as dispossessed b) dispossessed is not allowed as allies (which also blocks warriors, and ironweld units like vanilla organ guns from grand alliance order etc). Strict reading of the FAQ means the battalion allegience is dispossessed, while our army allegience is CoS, so ALL the units in the battalion would count as allies and be barred as they're not in the allies list. For non CoS allegience armies (other than grand alliance, who can do what they want with Order units), it's straightforward for the Kharadron battalions; you'd have to take the kharadron (and any stormcast) units as allies, plus they don't benefit from your allegience rules, lacking the appropriate keyword. Same with stormcast battalions, which due to a different ruling in the same core rules FAQ all have the stormcast eternals faction allegience. For Cities of Sigmar though, yikes. SCE and Kharadron units don't count as allies in Tempest's eye. AND they get the CoS keyword, and count as part of the army for allegience purposes. But the army as a whole is not using Kharadron or Stormcast allegience, it's using CoS. So you could interpret the conflicting combination of the FAQ and CoS rulebook to mean a) Yes, you can take those battalions as long as you fill it with units that follow the CoS restrictions and have the CoS keyword (e.g. no more than 1 in 4 units are kharadron and 1 in 4 stormcast, non exclusive. FAQ doesn't apply to CoS weird new hybrid half-allies rules. b) Nope, core rulebook FAQ takes precedence - Kharadron Battalions *must* go in your allies slot, units and points wise. Tempest's eye can't take kharadron as allies, so no battalion for you. The rest of the CoS allegiences, they are takeable as an allied battalion, so do that. Stormcast battalions are verboten for every CoS city as they're not in the Allies list for any due to their special rules. Clearly this is a problem. They specifically avoided the core rulebook FAQ problem with the Beasts of Chaos errata so the battalions could be used in chaos God lists, but that doesn't apply more generally. TL;DR - maybe don't buy any models intending to use them for allied battalions until the Cities of Sigmar FAQ, where hopefully they will clarify this mess. Oh, if only they keyworded battalions to make it clear who could and couldn't take them. (or reverted to AoS 1 style, which was much simpler) 12 hours ago, Dr Ben said: Ironclad buffed by a lord Ordinator with hawk-eyed and a hurricanum is as much righteous duardin firepower as you are going to get out of one. Plus you can have proper chaff units for protection. Might as well give it a go and see how it works out! On a positive note - love this idea! Might use a Knight-Azyros instead of a hurricanum (thinking of using one as a cheaper target designator for irondrakes anyway, and could optionally guard him with pistoliers). Love the ironclad model, so definitely tempted! Must resist and paint rest of army first... Edited October 10, 2019 by Arkhanist typo 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Ben Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 3 hours ago, Arkhanist said: Battalions are a complete and utter mess - see recent topic for discussion. Oh, if only they keyworded battalions to make it clear who could and couldn't take them. (or reverted to AoS 1 style, which was much simpler) Great response thank you. That definitely clarifies the lack of clarity! Looks like I might be asking an FAQ question for the first time..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruvich Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 13 hours ago, Dr Ben said: Ironclad buffed by a lord Ordinator with hawk-eyed and a hurricanum is as much righteous duardin firepower as you are going to get out of one. Plus you can have proper chaff units for protection. Might as well give it a go and see how it works out! I'm still new to the Hobby, so your Feedback is really much appreciated. I love the idea, thank you so much! I'll try to figure out some more synergies, seems like like, with some Synergy, the firepower of the big ships can be brought to some use! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Televiper11 Posted October 10, 2019 Author Share Posted October 10, 2019 16 hours ago, dekay said: Hawk eyed is better used with other units. on something mobile running around the field. For crossbowmen you'll get better mileage from Hold the Line!, no need to use up trait slot for them. But in general - multiple shooting blobs holding the line are a scary prospect for anything in range. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStreicher Posted October 11, 2019 Share Posted October 11, 2019 On 10/8/2019 at 5:21 PM, FPC said: awesome for Hawk Eyed general, 3+/3+ on their bows). It‘s a 2+, 2+ if they‘re in cover 😍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenshin620 Posted October 11, 2019 Share Posted October 11, 2019 On 10/10/2019 at 3:12 AM, Dr Ben said: Great response thank you. That definitely clarifies the lack of clarity! Looks like I might be asking an FAQ question for the first time..... Yes I think they'll cover the topic in the FAQ But I suspect it'll be more like Nighthaunt in LoN rather than BoC in God armies. BoC was a specific exception to the norm. Of course this is a tad odd since they specifically also made an exception for Da Big Waaagh which released the same time as CoS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msdos Posted October 12, 2019 Share Posted October 12, 2019 hey guys, I have been recently thinking about starting cities of sigmar army. What do you think about this for 1000 points? Celestial Hurricanum With Celestial Battlemage (280) - General - Command Trait : Hawk-eyed - Artefact : Ignax's Scales - Spell : Lore of Eagles - Aura of Glory (Tempest's Eye Wizard) Knight-Azyros (100) UNITS 3 x Demigryph Knights (180) - Lance and Sword 5 x Freeguild Outriders (100) 5 x Freeguild Pistoliers (100) 6 x Endrinriggers (240) - 2 x Aethermatic Volley Guns - 2 x Drill Cannons I know that I dont have a lot of bodies, but I am hoping that I can shoot and kill most of the enemy horde units 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shirtripper Posted October 12, 2019 Share Posted October 12, 2019 Hey all, Tempest Eye and Ironclads have me excited. What do you think about this list? Key callouts are a 9in movement minimum on the first turn for our troops, with the Ironclads shooting on 3's rerolling 1's, and wounding on 3's and 2's. Vanguard Palladors are for potential T1 charges and extra shooting. Let me know what you think. Lord-Ordinator (140) -General -Command Trait: Hawk-eyed -Artefact: Thermalrider Cloak Battlemage (90) - Spell: Lore of Eagles - Celestial Visions - Realm: Ghur Sorceress (90) -Spell: Lore of Eagles - Aura of Glory -City Role: General's Adjutant UNITS 30x Eternal Guard (330) 6x Vanguard-Palladors (360) -Boltstorm Pistols and Starstrike Javelins 10x Darkshards (100) 10x Darkshards (100) Arkanaut Ironclad (380) -Main Gun: Aethermatic Volley Gun Arkanaut Ironclad (380) -Main Gun: Aethermatic Volley Gun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dekay Posted October 12, 2019 Share Posted October 12, 2019 Allegiance: Cities of Sigmar- City: Tempest's EyeMortal Realm: AqshyFreeguild General on Griffon (320)- General- Lance- Trait: Hawk-eyed- Artefact: Patrician's HelmFreeguild General on Griffon (320)- Lance- Artefact: Zephyrite BannerCelestial Hurricanum With Celestial Battlemage (280)- Artefact: Thermalrider Cloak10 x Freeguild Pistoliers (200)10 x Freeguild Pistoliers (200)5 x Freeguild Pistoliers (100)5 x Freeguild Pistoliers (100)5 x Freeguild Outriders (100)5 x Freeguild Outriders (100)Aetherguard Windrunners (120)Aetherguard Windrunners (120)Quicksilver Swords (30)Malevolent Maelstrom (10)Total: 2000 / 2000Extra Command Points: 2Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 117 Is this ridiculous? Yes. Is this a 3 drop alpha strike monstrosity? Also yes. Everything either flies, is extremely fast or both. Keeping close together, most units can be kept under +1 hit/+1 wound bubble. Almost everything can retreat and charge. I honestly wonder if it could work, relying on going first and eliminating as many buffing units as possible and charging into things relying on charge to do damage. Quicksilver swords are here for mortal wound output, maelstorm because it's 10 points. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsraiR Posted October 12, 2019 Share Posted October 12, 2019 Having seen their performance a couple of weeks back I think this is my go to list for next time: Allegiance: Cities of Sigmar- City: Tempest's EyeCelestial Hurricanum With Celestial Battlemage (280)- Artefact: Seerstone Amulet - Spell: Lore of Eagles - Strike of Eagles (Tempest's Eye Wizard)Freeguild General on Griffon (320)- General- Lance- Trait: Swift as the Wind - Artefact: Zephyrite Banner Battlemage (90)- Spell: Lore of Eagles - Aura of Glory (Tempest's Eye Wizard)- Mortal Realm: Ghyran10 x Freeguild Pistoliers (200)10 x Freeguild Pistoliers (200)10 x Freeguild Pistoliers (200)10 x Phoenix Guard (160)5 x Sisters of the Thorn (130)- Spell: Lore of Eagles - Celestial Visions (Tempest's Eye Wizard)Aetherguard Windrunners (120)Emerald Lifeswarm (50)Total: 1750 / 1750Extra Command Points: 1Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 109 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStreicher Posted October 12, 2019 Share Posted October 12, 2019 Interesting... since it never came up: are you allowed to take the same battalion twice? (I can‘t remember anything forbidding it) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenshin620 Posted October 12, 2019 Share Posted October 12, 2019 As long as you got the points, you can. It's just most situations usually you'll not want more than one battalion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwendar Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 With my realization of Greywater not being... well... all that "greyat", I've decided to shift things around and go Tempest Eye with the concept. Rather than 'Greywater Ghost Division' I'm going for a combined 'Tempest Blitzkrieg'. Artillery has no place here, not that the Rockets are all that great in the first place. Instead, we have more Copters\Bombers, 20 Shadow Warriors (paratroopers?) and a cavalry division of AFF Run + Charge Griffon and supporting run\retreat\shoot\charge Pistoliers (who should be able to clear chaff)... all this while still keeping 3 Tanks. Thermalrider because I don't really see anything else being useful, and it helps mitigate the 2d6" movement. Spoiler Allegiance: Cities of Sigmar- City: Tempest's EyeMortal Realm: AqshyLeadersFreeguild General on Griffon (320)- General- Shield & Runesword- Trait: Swift as the Wind- Artefact: Ignax's ScalesSteam Tank with Commander (250)- Artefact: Thermalrider CloakBattleline5 x Freeguild Pistoliers (100)5 x Freeguild Pistoliers (100)5 x Freeguild Pistoliers (100)Units3 x Gyrocopters (180)3 x Gyrobombers (210)20 x Shadow Warriors (220)BehemothsSteam Tank (200)Steam Tank (200)BattalionsAetherguard Windrunners (120)Total: 2000 / 2000Extra Command Points: 1Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 126 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zilberfrid Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 I think the image of a tank flying from the lift generated around the neck of the commander is good enough to use the whole list. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NuhJuhKuh Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 Any mileage in using Demigryph Knights in a Tempests Eye list? I know they don’t shoot, but surely they’d benefit from the +3 movement shenanigans if nothing else, and maybe a bit of melee punch in an otherwise short list would be handy? (also the models are cool) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwendar Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 3 hours ago, NuhJuhKuh said: Any mileage in using Demigryph Knights in a Tempests Eye list? I know they don’t shoot, but surely they’d benefit from the +3 movement shenanigans if nothing else, and maybe a bit of melee punch in an otherwise short list would be handy? (also the models are cool) I had considered running a unit of 6 with Lances. On the charge they can hit pretty hard but... for 60 points less you can get 15 Pistoliers that are going to hit about as hard and then retreat\shoot\charge and do it all again. I think if you're going to use them outside of Hammerhal and it's battalion then you would want to run 2x3 or 1x6 and use Halberds. This makes for a solid, cav unit with 4 wounds a piece on a 3+. I really would consider it more of an anvil than a hammer in this setup, as it really isn't going to put out a ton of damage for the points. I think someone made math post on them on the Hammerhal thread if you want to take a closer look at the numbers. If you don't care about any of that then run them to your hearts content, cause yeah, they're pretty neat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratigo Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 3 hours ago, NuhJuhKuh said: Any mileage in using Demigryph Knights in a Tempests Eye list? I know they don’t shoot, but surely they’d benefit from the +3 movement shenanigans if nothing else, and maybe a bit of melee punch in an otherwise short list would be handy? (also the models are cool) they're quite good actually. A two plus save turn one is very solid, and they can actually make both a good tarpit screen and a good hammer in a mobility focused tempest eye list. I theoried up a battalion list with 30 pistoliers, a griffin, the hurricanum, and 9 DGK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenshin620 Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 If you want a weird fusion of pistoliers and demigyphs, you could also run Palladors. Not that many people run Palladors though... I'm curious if Gryph Charger models down the line would get the MW on top of normal damage, rather than ending the attack sequence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swarmofseals Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 @Dr Ben @FPC The thing you are missing is drop count. Having more grudgehammers or long rifles is great, but not at the cost of always giving your opponent the turn choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FPC Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 5 hours ago, swarmofseals said: @Dr Ben @FPC The thing you are missing is drop count. Having more grudgehammers or long rifles is great, but not at the cost of always giving your opponent the turn choice. I don’t really play in a competitive environment so drop count hardly factors into my considerations. And either way I already said, larger units are my preference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Ben Posted October 14, 2019 Share Posted October 14, 2019 On 10/13/2019 at 3:30 PM, swarmofseals said: @Dr Ben @FPC The thing you are missing is drop count. Having more grudgehammers or long rifles is great, but not at the cost of always giving your opponent the turn choice. 23 hours ago, FPC said: I don’t really play in a competitive environment so drop count hardly factors into my considerations. And either way I already said, larger units are my preference. Both fair points. My dispossessed army is not really designed to be highly competitive. Also, with the disappointing lack of any duardin battalions my drops are going to be sky high anyway. So I will have to plan around the lack of turn choice in the list design anyway. When the tempests eye allegiance ability is heavily weighted towards turn 1 that does make for some interesting list building puzzles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwendar Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 (edited) So, decided to redo my Darkshard/Executioner alpha strike list I posted on the main CoS thread. I can't take all the credit for this and definitely had some help from certain people, but tried to make something a bit more all-comers and the damage potential out of the Pistoliers absolutely cannot be ignored. A unit of 20 on the charge has shot 80 times which is ~35 damage against a 4+ save on average with the command trait, Hurricanum and Azyros buffs. Hitting them with the +1 attack spell gives 3 attacks each to their melee, turning it into a reasonable threat. Ideally you're wiping a unit on the charge though. PG are there as the hybrid hammer/anvil to hold an objective but can easily take one if needed. I also briefly considered 20 Dark Riders instead of the PG, but as was pointed out, they likely fair better in Living City to come in off the board edge. Spoiler Allegiance: Cities of Sigmar- City: Tempest's EyeMortal Realm: AqshyLeadersFreeguild General on Griffon (320)- General- Shield & Runesword- Trait: Hawk-eyed- Artefact: Ignax's ScalesCelestial Hurricanum With Celestial Battlemage (280)- Artefact: Seerstone Amulet- Spell: Lore of Eagles - Aura of Glory (Tempest's Eye Wizard)Anointed (100)Knight-Azyros (100)Battleline10 x Freeguild Pistoliers (200)10 x Freeguild Pistoliers (200)5 x Freeguild Pistoliers (100)5 x Freeguild Pistoliers (100)Units30 x Phoenix Guard (420)BattalionsAetherguard Windrunners (120)Endless Spells / Terrain / CPsEmerald Lifeswarm (50)Total: 1990 / 2000Extra Command Points: 1Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 124 Edited October 19, 2019 by Gwendar Switched to potentially 2x10 Pistoliers, will experiment with both setups Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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