Tempest Eye Discussion

[Fyrenn]

Hi,

 

I've been reading and re-reading this thread and definitely have a bit of decision paralysis... so i'm looking for some general feedback / thoughts.

 

I have not played AOS - I played Fantasy and fell out of it when Sigmar first came out.  I'm not going to be playing in tournaments, just likely with a bunch of friends when we finishing painting.  I'm in it for models and creativity, but I also don't want something to be.. well, awful I guess.

 

When I decided on CoS it was due to the varied models and potential to kitbash and proxy things I really liked. Originally I was leaning towards anvilgard because I liked the idea of pirates and monsters - but i liked the idea of skypirates - monster hunters led by melusai who gained a single airship and use it to travel the jungles and deserts looking for game.  Which to me, means a modified ironclad.

 

Since I want the ironclad, it's all been making it work in TI.  I think the fast moving elements are good and might work well as opposed to a gunline sort of build, but ultimately I was hoping to be a little more flexible and not rely solely on one thing.

 

This is where i'm at currently, with some questions / comments below:

 

Leaders

 

• Lord-Arcanum on Celestial Dracoline

  Lore of Eagles: Aura of Glory

  M 12" / S 3+ / W 7 / B 9Lord-Arcanum Human Dracoline Mounted Wizard

   
• Sorceress

  General

  Hawk-Eyed, Lore of Eagles - Celestial Visions

  M 6" / S 6+ / W 5 / B 7Darkling Coven Wizard

   
• Black Ark Fleetmaster

  Generals Adjuctant

  M 6" / S 4+ / W 5 / B 7Scourge Privateers

   

Units

 

• Dreadspears  (10)

  City Role: Honoured Retinue (Must be 5-20 models)Allies

  M 6" / S 4+ / W 1 / B 6Darkling Coven - Battleline

   
• Scourgerunner Chariots (3)

  M 12" / S 5+ / W 6 / B 6Scourge Privateers - Cities of Sigmar Battleline (Scourge Privateers General)

   
• Khinerai Lifetakers (5)

  Allies

  M 14" / S 6+ / W 1 / B 7Daughters of Khaine

   
• Arkanaut Company (10)

  M 4" / S 5+ / W 1 / B 6Battleline

   
• Evocators on Dracolines (3)

  M 12" / S 4+ / W 5 / B 7

   
• Black Guard (20)

  M 6" / S 4+ / W 1 / B 8Darkling Coven - Cities of Sigmar Battleline (Darkling Coven General)

   

Behemoths

 

• Arkanaut Ironclad

   

  Main Gun: Great Sky Cannon

  M 8" / S 4+ / W 18 / B 7Behemoth
   
• Kharibdyss

   

  M 7"* / S 4+ / W 12 / B 6Scourge Privateers Behemoth - Cities of Sigmar Battleline (City: Anvilgard)

   

So - right now i'm exactly at 2000 points.

 

Despite a general 'what do you think', these are some things I was struggling with:

 

Having a general  / general adjuctant.  is it worth it to get the CP?  My scourge privateer serves little purpose other than the theoretical situation where he buffs the kary - which maybe can also get buffed by the aura of glory? otherwise - it's just a hold over from earlier builds.  I understand two sorceresses might be better... but do they have the speed needed to keep up with anything?  If that's the case, do i need to give up on the adjuctant and just find a way to fit in a mounted leader like a sorceress on dragon? (in that case, i'd probably convert the karybydsis).  If I do that, do the black guard lose their place because they don't have her to guard?

 

How much value does the Ironclad lose if it is solo?  It's very hard to get to 12 units to have 3 Khadarons... so hero + shooters + ship seem hard to meet.  I have no real love for the company, beside an inexpensive battleline.

 

How important is it to have an anvil of some sort here?  the best I have, I think, are the black guard under the circumstances.

 

I'm looking for what I could should remove, and what are alternate possibilities.  In theory I wanted a fast moving army with the ironclad and chariots covering ranged fire, the dracoline the line breaking hammers, and the black guard a serviceable line while waiting for those dracoline or monsters to drop in. 

 

The Khimerai can deep strike to help whatever place is weakest or take advantage.

 

It seems not worth having the sorceress if I don't have some cheap darklings to sacrifice hence the spears.  

 

(one idea would be more spears, less black guards, and adding some pistolers to make up for the lost battleline. surprisingly i've had a lot more trouble meeting battleline then I thought i would.

 

As you can see - i'm really kinda scattered here. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[WatcherintheWater]

@FyrennI'm not as familiar with the dark elf side of things, but here are my thoughts:

• If you have an infantry general, I think it's worth the points to get an adjunct. Something like a battlemage might be more useful than the fleetmaster  though. they have some pretty useful buff spells on their warscroll.
• However, an infantry here probably isn't the best Hawk Eye buffer for the Ironclad. They are really going to slow you down. Even a flying non-KO general will get left behind with the ship teleports (which is an awesome ability), though.
• If you want to put a KO general on the Ironclad, I'd either pick an Aether-Khemist (because he's cheap), or the Flying Endrinmaster (he's pretty good in combat & can shoot some).
• I like Grundstock Thunderers more than the Arkanauts to man an Ironclad. They have a lot more range, and can shoot even if the Ironclad teleports. If you go plan to use the teleport, they will do a lot more work. A teleporting Ironclad with 10 Thunderers is pretty dangerous even without the Hawk-Eye buff.

[Fyrenn]

@WatcherintheWater - thanks for the feedback!

I've reorganized a lot, and had to think about the roles of some units.. all you said about the general and the ability to buff is well noted, and I was struggling with it.  I do think you hit the nail on the head at the end tho - perhaps for the list i'm building the buff should be OPTIONAL.  great if the stars align, but not a focal point.

I think my idea is the ironclad would bounce around to do some serious damage to targets of opportunity, a big enough threat that needs to be focused, but not part of an armywide lynchpin. it's strength that has great range... i loved the idea of having a general, but all that requires 12 or more units to get 3 KO units in the list... and it's just not practical (especially if I want to, like you said, had an adjunct). SO!

Right now, these are core ideas to my list (it's changed a bit)

 

Ironclad (i was thinking of the volley gun here)

5 thunderers (do you recommend mixed weapons or just the rifles? I need to be in range for the volley, I worry about being too close as well)

 

3 evocators on dracolines (as a shock/smash unit)

5 pistoleers (battleline) - skirmish/shock/range

3 scourgerunner chariots (ranged attacks potential mw)

1 hurricanum - I've decided i could probably do something cool like use parts from an altar of blood and a hydra to create an interesting hurricanum. my main problem is i sort of hate a lot of the old empire stuff. 

1 wizard. (the GENERAL ADJUNCT REGARDLESS)

Here's the part i'm thinking about.

 

Option 1)

40 freeguild guard (probably using pirates with lizardman shields attached to be my pirate hunters)

1 freeguild general on foot (probably using a customized blood sister) - GENERAL

10 empire greatswords (again, trying to figure if there's a way I can take blood sisters with alt weapons and heads and put them on the tiny bases without them being ridiculous - i'm thinking about using the swords from either executioners or the wildwood ranger guys. they have cool deadly looking weapons.

That ends up putting my list at 1990. no wizard on the hurricanum that way, I found my biggest problem involved battleline, as when i switched to gunstocks i needed something else to fill it, and i didn't want it to be a complete waste... so i thought the greatswords synergized well that I could have a main line of the guard/general/greatswords backed up with the ranged/smashy/movement to help on the flanks, and huge boat to fly overhead.

 

Option 2)

later on, i worried i was overthinking it again. So i retooled it as such:

40 pirates 

1 fleetmaster (I assume that his command ability and the spell stack, so the pirates could have 6 attacks each?) - GENERAL

(this has now saved 200 points, or a total of 210)  The main advantage I see is that the fleetmaster general makes the chariots battleline, meaning i am not forced to find a third battleline group as I was in the army above.

210 points can go to a lot of different things when you're not beholden to battleline -  I could put a wizard on the hurricanum as well as get more chariots or the gryph-charger guys.  I could add 2 of the dracolith riders (potentially do something with guys riding hydra or something at the cost of a chariot or something) - or something else - more guns in the ironclad, for ex).

Basically, i'm torn because i know the pirates aren't great, and i think what i might need is the staying power of a big unit (the guard with shields) to hold on while other units flank and hit from the sides.  fleetmasters only have the one trick of dumping spells on pirates when i sort of wonder if the same spells might end up being more effective elsewhere anyway... and so on.

 

What do you think?

Thanks so much!

[Popisdead]

I was chatting yesterday about Tempest Eye Dark Aelves.  I"m sure it's been mentioned before but in light of the recent DE chat.

With a Beast Mage, Cogs, Sorceress on a Black Dragon, in TE you can get a block of 30 Executioners really far.  REALLY far.  I also would look first about the Sorceress on Black Dragon for the +1 A spell.

Move, Run, a few stacks of run bonuses, charge with charge bonuses,.  I haven't thinkered (portmanteau intended) with it in a list but an Aetherguard Captain and Zephyrite Banner.  Beasts Mage casts his spell(+1 from Hurricanum which is supporting the 40-60 SotW ), Sorceress stabs for +2 for cogs (making it harder to dispel).  Best thing is you get to cast the spells before you move your unit.  You just need to ensure you have the command points for the run and charge and maybe pocket one for ignoring Bravery Tests.

3" move (TE), 6" move, D6 run, +1 (TE) +1 (musician), +2(beasts) + 2D6 Charge (rr, avg 7-9 reasonably), +2 (cogs), +2 (beasts) +1 (musician), +1 (trait).  19" of move before you add in a run and charges which could easily add 10+" more.  Even without fly they can blanket deployment zone.  

They get a lot of bonuses and why choose Executioners over Black Guard?  MW output is pretty handy (ask any LC player who uses Sisters of the Watch) and I've noticed today on WarCom Lumineth can ignore Rend -1.  

The Executioners will also have a 3+ save first round.  Nothing to shake a stick at.  If only the Sisters of the Thorn spell wasn't keyworded to Wanderer.

Just what I'm planning to run when games start up again.

[Kramer]

22 hours ago, Popisdead said:

I was chatting yesterday about Tempest Eye Dark Aelves.  I"m sure it's been mentioned before but in light of the recent DE chat.

With a Beast Mage, Cogs, Sorceress on a Black Dragon, in TE you can get a block of 30 Executioners really far.  REALLY far.  I also would look first about the Sorceress on Black Dragon for the +1 A spell.

Move, Run, a few stacks of run bonuses, charge with charge bonuses,.  I haven't thinkered (portmanteau intended) with it in a list but an Aetherguard Captain and Zephyrite Banner.  Beasts Mage casts his spell(+1 from Hurricanum which is supporting the 40-60 SotW ), Sorceress stabs for +2 for cogs (making it harder to dispel).  Best thing is you get to cast the spells before you move your unit.  You just need to ensure you have the command points for the run and charge and maybe pocket one for ignoring Bravery Tests.

3" move (TE), 6" move, D6 run, +1 (TE) +1 (musician), +2(beasts) + 2D6 Charge (rr, avg 7-9 reasonably), +2 (cogs), +2 (beasts) +1 (musician), +1 (trait).  19" of move before you add in a run and charges which could easily add 10+" more.  Even without fly they can blanket deployment zone.  

They get a lot of bonuses and why choose Executioners over Black Guard?  MW output is pretty handy (ask any LC player who uses Sisters of the Watch) and I've noticed today on WarCom Lumineth can ignore Rend -1.  

The Executioners will also have a 3+ save first round.  Nothing to shake a stick at.  If only the Sisters of the Thorn spell wasn't keyworded to Wanderer.

Just what I'm planning to run when games start up again.

Anything to get the executioners in the table is a good idea. 

i like it. Does require a lot of moving parts though that will not have the most use after turn one? 
what about the sorceress on foot instead. That warscroll spell is real good as well. 
 

[Korwey]

Hi, AOS tournaments are returning to my LGS next month, and I'm looking for some feedback on my list :)

HEROS
Anointed (100)
Celestial Hurricanum With Celestial Battlemage (280)  Seerstone Amulet, Aura of Glory
Freeguild General on Griffon (320) General, Hawk-eyed, Lance, Shield, Patrician's Helm
UNITS
10 x Freeguild Pistoliers (200)
10 x Freeguild Pistoliers (200)
5 x Freeguild Pistoliers (100)
30 x Phoenix Guard (420)
20 x Darkshards (200)
BATTALIONS
Aetherguard Windrunners (120)
ENDLESS SPELLS
Geminids of Uhl-Gysh (60)
//2000pts
It may be lacking some long range firepower, so I'm thinking about adding three Scourgerunner chariots in place of Geminids and 10 Phenix Guard or Anointed.
BTW, we will be playing Starstrike, Scorched Earth and Total Conquest.
What do you think? 

[WatcherintheWater]

@FyrennBoth of those options look good! I think the attack stacking combo on the pirates seems fun, and if they are in hurricanium range, they could do some pretty serious damage. Also, whatever you choose to do with the extra points would probably be more useful than the Greatswords. I think it's tough to get 10 man infantry units with no range to do much more than sit on objectives.

The Free Guild option would be good too, but I would expect the guard to be all that much more survivable than the pirates. Personally I'd pick handgunners or crossbows instead. I think they are still battleline, and the stand and shoot ability is really fantastic. It wouldn't be that hard to get them to hitting and wounding both on 2's.

One sort of general thing, though. If you like the Pirate theme, it may just be worth it to go with them. We will probably get a new General's Handbook some time in the next year or so, and when the points change, there is no guarantee that what is good now will still be then. Especially if you're in a just for fun environment. Pirates converted with Lizardmen shields does sound cool though!

[dekay]

16 hours ago, Korwey said:

HEROS
Anointed (100)
Celestial Hurricanum With Celestial Battlemage (280)  Seerstone Amulet, Aura of Glory
Freeguild General on Griffon (320) General, Hawk-eyed, Lance, Shield, Patrician's Helm
UNITS
10 x Freeguild Pistoliers (200)
10 x Freeguild Pistoliers (200)
5 x Freeguild Pistoliers (100)
30 x Phoenix Guard (420)
20 x Darkshards (200)
BATTALIONS
Aetherguard Windrunners (120)
ENDLESS SPELLS
Geminids of Uhl-Gysh (60)
//2000pts
It may be lacking some long range firepower, so I'm thinking about adding three Scourgerunner chariots in place of Geminids and 10 Phenix Guard or Anointed.
BTW, we will be playing Starstrike, Scorched Earth and Total Conquest.
What do you think? 

Darkshards without a sorceress are very much overshadowed by our other shooting units, her command ability is one of their greatest strengths. And as there's not much space to add her here, I'd consider turning them into scourgerunners instead, that way you can leave phoenix guard at full strength and you still have some points leftover (for a command point, another endless spell or emergency objective grabber aetherwings for example). And if you still feel like you lack longer range firepower, turning those 5 pistoliers into outriders will mitigate it a bit more.

[Drtyfts]

Hello everyone, I'm new to AoS but after some research I've decided to go with a TE army, I made a 2k and 1k army list. Planning on casual play but willing to participate in local tournaments and what not. I'm looking for feedback on my army, I feel confident I'll have fun playing with this set up but after reading through this thread I'm interested in how others think it might play out, thank you!

[zilberfrid]

With the dreadspears, a Sorceress would be quite a good option, if you're not using a Sorceress, I'd go for Freeguild Guard and a General (instead of the assassin and dreadspears), as he gives a good bonus to either the spears or the gunners.

I think using the Knight Azyros as general isn't a very good use of it, you need to be close to the enemy for the hit bonus and the explosion, and Hawk Eyed doesn't work if you're not close to the enemy. You also can't really use an Adjudant, or you'll be clipping your wings by its leash, not is the retinue very useful if you're on the other side of the map.

[Drtyfts]

 

35 minutes ago, zilberfrid said:

With the dreadspears, a Sorceress would be quite a good option, if you're not using a Sorceress, I'd go for Freeguild Guard and a General (instead of the assassin and dreadspears), as he gives a good bonus to either the spears or the gunners.

I think using the Knight Azyros as general isn't a very good use of it, you need to be close to the enemy for the hit bonus and the explosion, and Hawk Eyed doesn't work if you're not close to the enemy. You also can't really use an Adjudant, or you'll be clipping your wings by its leash, not is the retinue very useful if you're on the other side of the map.

Hey thanks for the advice, that's an easy enough change to swap out the assassin for a sorceress and run azroyz as is. That way I'll be able to keep the dreadspears and make them work a bit better 👍

[zilberfrid]

44 minutes ago, Drtyfts said:

 

Hey thanks for the advice, that's an easy enough change to swap out the assassin for a sorceress and run azroyz as is. That way I'll be able to keep the dreadspears and make them work a bit better 👍

You can't swap the assassin and the Sorceress, but you can swap out the battlemage and the sorceress.

[Popisdead]

On 6/17/2020 at 10:19 AM, Kramer said:

Anything to get the executioners in the table is a good idea. 

i like it. Does require a lot of moving parts though that will not have the most use after turn one? 
what about the sorceress on foot instead. That warscroll spell is real good as well. 
 

The idea was keeping up with them for the +1A spell but that puts her in a big threat range since she'll only have a 4+ save first turn and 5+ afterwards.

[Kimbo]

Would this work well with Tempest eye? Would like some feedback 

 

1x Hurricanum with mage 

1x Anointed (General) 

1x Freeguild General 

1x Battle mage 

 

30x Pheonix Guard 

30x Pheonix Guard 

20x Handgunners 

20x Handgunners 

 

10x Shadow Warriors 

1x Soulscream Bridge 

 

Basic ide is to teleport the 40 handgunners + General with bridge and delete something. Mass Guard to move up and hold objectives/kill stuff. 

[Kramer]

2 hours ago, Popisdead said:

The idea was keeping up with them for the +1A spell but that puts her in a big threat range since she'll only have a 4+ save first turn and 5+ afterwards.

You could take two and save 20 points  

I also looked at the evocators on dracoline with a lord arcanum on dracoline. And they get crazy. 

but a lord arcanum might be a bit more survivable and cheaper for the +1A spell.  3+ save and +1 turn 1 is pretty survivable as well. Either the graph charger or the dracoline variation. 

[Popisdead]

19 hours ago, Kramer said:

You could take two and save 20 points  

I also looked at the evocators on dracoline with a lord arcanum on dracoline. And they get crazy. 

but a lord arcanum might be a bit more survivable and cheaper for the +1A spell.  3+ save and +1 turn 1 is pretty survivable as well. Either the graph charger or the dracoline variation. 

Yeah not a bad idea.  It gets tricky as if you are making non-casters, able to cast spells you could lose the trait or item.  I don't have my book near me but when glancing it seemed like a balance trick.  

 

Also I don't know what a Lord Arcanum is or does, i'm an old school WE player haha.  I realized he maybe is a mtd caster?

Edited June 24, 2020 by Popisdead

[Slave2Chaos]

On 6/16/2020 at 1:30 PM, Popisdead said:

I was chatting yesterday about Tempest Eye Dark Aelves.  I"m sure it's been mentioned before but in light of the recent DE chat.

With a Beast Mage, Cogs, Sorceress on a Black Dragon, in TE you can get a block of 30 Executioners really far.  REALLY far.  I also would look first about the Sorceress on Black Dragon for the +1 A spell.

Move, Run, a few stacks of run bonuses, charge with charge bonuses,.  I haven't thinkered (portmanteau intended) with it in a list but an Aetherguard Captain and Zephyrite Banner.  Beasts Mage casts his spell(+1 from Hurricanum which is supporting the 40-60 SotW ), Sorceress stabs for +2 for cogs (making it harder to dispel).  Best thing is you get to cast the spells before you move your unit.  You just need to ensure you have the command points for the run and charge and maybe pocket one for ignoring Bravery Tests.

3" move (TE), 6" move, D6 run, +1 (TE) +1 (musician), +2(beasts) + 2D6 Charge (rr, avg 7-9 reasonably), +2 (cogs), +2 (beasts) +1 (musician), +1 (trait).  19" of move before you add in a run and charges which could easily add 10+" more.  Even without fly they can blanket deployment zone.  

They get a lot of bonuses and why choose Executioners over Black Guard?  MW output is pretty handy (ask any LC player who uses Sisters of the Watch) and I've noticed today on WarCom Lumineth can ignore Rend -1.  

The Executioners will also have a 3+ save first round.  Nothing to shake a stick at.  If only the Sisters of the Thorn spell wasn't keyworded to Wanderer.

Just what I'm planning to run when games start up again.

I am going to have to give something like this a try. Get my 30 Executioners back on the table. So many things would have to go right in order for this to succeed though. I think the biggest "what if" will be the Beast battlemage, unfortunately +1 from the Herricanum just doesn't mean as mush as it use to. More so with Lumineth on the horizon.  I also really don't like using cogs ... I've found it tends to hep the enemy just as much if not more. But they are still plenty fast without that particular +2" of movement.
Executioners MW being on the to hit roll and not wound has always intrigued me, shame it ends the attack sequence unlike all other great weapons in CoS.
A Knight Azyros allowing rerolls of 1 could be a handy force multiplier when fishing for 6's but hard to get in position if your throw the executioners across the field turn 1.

Very interesting ... yep, will definitely be playing around with this. Anything to get as much use as possible from all my Dark Elves. 

[Kramer]

2 hours ago, Slave2Chaos said:

A Knight Azyros allowing rerolls of 1 could be a handy force multiplier when fishing for 6's but hard to get in position if your throw the executioners across the field turn 1.

Is there anyway to make them re-roll hits? Or even Failed hits. So you can really fish for them. 

Listened to a very nice podcast by the honest wargamer with @Vincent Venturella today. And although it won't bother me for awhile as I don't know any DoT, Seraphon player nor people who will jump on Lumineth fast, their point of magic becoming all or nothing is very valid. Basically the argument was with the amount of 'mega-caster' armies relying on magic while you're not one of them will be pretty pointless. Which depending on your where you will bring this set-up, will be very much hit or miss. 

Just throwing it out there as something to consider. Plenty of armies where it will work though.

[Slave2Chaos]

@Kramer  I don't think magic has to be all or nothing as the only options, you just cant rely on it when there are such power houses and hard counters out there. Its a nifty trick, but I am extremely skeptical at how often it will actually play out. 

Stems largely from how I approach the game and list building in particular. I always create lists that are looking for a good time at a 1 or 2 day event. I don't expect to get first place with it but I also don't want to be walked over. I want an "all comers" list that just happens to include a model or 2 I painted/converted and fancy looking at lol.

We have a large number of players in my gaming group, but rarely know who and what army you'll be facing come game night.

Seraphon has been a regular in my gaming group prior to the new book and covid,

1 regular Khorne player,

The occasional DoT.

Stromcast knight incantor that is commonly found throughout various order armies, oh the Rune Lord from Cities is also quite popular ... 
Nagash/Arkhan ...
I honestly think Destruction is the only group that is lacking in solid magic defense, comparatively speaking. Most commonly I see Mawtribes with  Stone Horns or Ironjaws with their strong alphas. So I would be deploying to screen and limit that potential alpha and thus denying my own ability to alpha. Especially since Cities rarely control the first turn decision making process. When playing to counter charge or for the double, you are less reliant on those casting rolls to get off the movement shenanigans. Instead just a command point to run and charge. *possibly 2 command points with lumineth lol.

Hopefully my ramblings / train of thought make sense ....

Otherwise I don't think there are any other ways to get reroll hits on Executioners to fish for those 6's, at least not that I am ware of. 

Happy Gaming

 

 

[Kramer]

7 minutes ago, Slave2Chaos said:

@Kramer  I don't think magic has to be all or nothing as the only options, you just cant rely on it when there are such power houses and hard counters out there. Its a nifty trick, but I am extremely skeptical at how often it will actually play out. 

Stems largely from how I approach the game and list building in particular. I always create lists that are looking for a good time at a 1 or 2 day event. I don't expect to get first place with it but I also don't want to be walked over. I want an "all comers" list that just happens to include a model or 2 I painted/converted and fancy looking at lol.

We have a large number of players in my gaming group, but rarely know who and what army you'll be facing come game night.

Seraphon has been a regular in my gaming group prior to the new book and covid,

1 regular Khorne player,

The occasional DoT.

Stromcast knight incantor that is commonly found throughout various order armies, oh the Rune Lord from Cities is also quite popular ... 
Nagash/Arkhan ...
I honestly think Destruction is the only group that is lacking in solid magic defense, comparatively speaking. Most commonly I see Mawtribes with  Stone Horns or Ironjaws with their strong alphas. So I would be deploying to screen and limit that potential alpha and thus denying my own ability to alpha. Especially since Cities rarely control the first turn decision making process. When playing to counter charge or for the double, you are less reliant on those casting rolls to get off the movement shenanigans. Instead just a command point to run and charge. *possibly 2 command points with lumineth lol.

Hopefully my ramblings / train of thought make sense ....

Otherwise I don't think there are any other ways to get reroll hits on Executioners to fish for those 6's, at least not that I am ware of. 

Happy Gaming

 

 

Yeah this puts me in the weird spot to defend somebody else’s argument. But the argument is, if your building an all comers list of course, that two thirds of the armies you run into at tournaments will be over the top magic armies. 
so the magic investment of a sorceress + battle mage  against those armies will not pay out. As they will shut it down almost completely. 

Now I get you don’t built your list as a one trick pony. But still it’s at least 180 points that won’t add nothing in two out three games. 

again defending somebody else’s argument. But I thought it at least warrants consideration. 

[Slave2Chaos]

@Kramer No worries man, honestly I don't even have a list at this point. Just discussing ideas to get my 30 executioners back on the table. @Popisdead had brought up some interesting ideas to do just that. I just hate relying on magic so much so in order to pull it off. The Knight Azyros wasn't mentioned in his original run down. Just wanted to bring it up as another option, which also has the benefit of effecting  any shooting that may be targeting nearby enemy units.

I honestly think that the biggest weakness in the above tactic is the fact that Cities will rarely get to determine who goes first and thus must deploy accordingly. With such strong alpha strike and magic lists out there it really effects the viability of successfully pulling off that "trick". So I am considering a strong beta strike  as it will be more widely applicable. And only requires a sorceress to implement. The Azyros being a little sprinkle of awesome sauce if I can pull it off. Neither of which relies on magic to implement. 
Essentially I want to minimize the amount of chance in order to be successful. Magic is horrible in this regard. Not only do you have to make a role, your opponent has ways to counter said roll if you do. Unlike for example priest buffs, command traits, and auras.

Its just hard to compare apples to pineapples ... just cause they both say apple doesn't mean they taste the same ....

Ultimately I am always looking for ways to get my old dark elves on the table and am grateful for executioners to even be a topic of discussion again. I think that their speed when coupled with a sorceress is their best attribute, that and mortals on to hit rolls instead of wounds. So I intend to get them on the table and will report back with my findings .. whenever I start gaming regularly again.

Lumineth will also be bringing the ignore -1 rend to the table again so depending on how popular they end up being in your meta that could be a factor.

Edited June 27, 2020 by Slave2Chaos

[WatcherintheWater]

I've been trying to put together a reasonably competitive list using mostly dwarf models & Gotrek. What do people think of this list?

• Freeguild General w/ Hawk Eye
• Runelord - Adjutant
• Gotrek
• 3x10 Freeguild Handgunners (will just use Dwarf Thunderer models)
• 30 Longbeards
• 30 Hammerers
• Grundstock Gunhauler
• 6 Endrinriggers (shooting loadout)

Idea would be for the KO units to teleport around shooting at high value targets, or they could stay near the General to get his buff. Handgunners hold back objectives and shoot at enemy mid board units. Longbeards try to push up and swarm mid board objectives, while the Hammerers (supported by the RL) and Gotrek probably split up and look for something to fight.

Positives are that there are a lot of decently durable bodies, good damage output and some range. Big downside is that aside from the KO it's very slow. Because it's also high drop count, if it goes against an opponent that can get multiple turn 1 charges, you could easily spend the first couple turns pinned in your own deployment zone. Maybe one improvement would be to swap out the Longbeards for a unit of pistoliers/outriders, a Knight-Azyros, & a Gyrocopter. Adds a lot of speed, but loses the dwarf theme some.

[readercolin]

On 7/1/2020 at 7:57 AM, WatcherintheWater said:

I've been trying to put together a reasonably competitive list using mostly dwarf models & Gotrek. What do people think of this list?

• Freeguild General w/ Hawk Eye
• Runelord - Adjutant
• Gotrek
• 3x10 Freeguild Handgunners (will just use Dwarf Thunderer models)
• 30 Longbeards
• 30 Hammerers
• Grundstock Gunhauler
• 6 Endrinriggers (shooting loadout)

Idea would be for the KO units to teleport around shooting at high value targets, or they could stay near the General to get his buff. Handgunners hold back objectives and shoot at enemy mid board units. Longbeards try to push up and swarm mid board objectives, while the Hammerers (supported by the RL) and Gotrek probably split up and look for something to fight.

Positives are that there are a lot of decently durable bodies, good damage output and some range. Big downside is that aside from the KO it's very slow. Because it's also high drop count, if it goes against an opponent that can get multiple turn 1 charges, you could easily spend the first couple turns pinned in your own deployment zone. Maybe one improvement would be to swap out the Longbeards for a unit of pistoliers/outriders, a Knight-Azyros, & a Gyrocopter. Adds a lot of speed, but loses the dwarf theme some.

Not a huge fan.

First off, the general with hawk eye and handgunners.  If the general uses his command ability, the handgunners are already at a 2+/2+, which kind of negates the need for hawk eyed.  Second, without a wizard or a warden king, you don't have any way of adding extra attacks in melee, which drastically reduces the power of the big blocks of infantry.  Third, you are spending 350 points for your KO units, and I'm not sure that they actually provide enough to be worth those points.  Fourth, I'm not a huge fan of Gotrek when you aren't bringing anything to help his mobility, and he also doesn't benefit from any of the cities bonuses.

If you want a more competitive list, I would look at swapping the general with a warden king, make the runelord the general with hawk eyed, and bring a squad of 20 irondrakes (or 2 squads of 10, though 1 unit of 20 can get the runelord buff better) instead of the 30 handgunners.  I would also look to swap the KO units with a hurricanum for the to-hit bonuses.  Lastly, if you are determined to bring Gotrek, I would look to bring either a battlemage from Ghur (can give a FRIENDLY unit - meaning it can affect Gotrek) +2 to run and charge, and/or I would look to bring Chronomatic Cogs for +2 move and +2 charge.  More realistically, I would look to drop Gotrek because irondrakes and hammerers are already going to be killy enough that you don't need to bring another killy unit, instead you need to bring something to help you hold objectives.

[Popisdead]

On 6/26/2020 at 6:51 AM, Slave2Chaos said:

I am going to have to give something like this a try. Get my 30 Executioners back on the table. So many things would have to go right in order for this to succeed though. I think the biggest "what if" will be the Beast battlemage, unfortunately +1 from the Herricanum just doesn't mean as mush as it use to. More so with Lumineth on the horizon.  I also really don't like using cogs ... I've found it tends to hep the enemy just as much if not more. But they are still plenty fast without that particular +2" of movement.
Executioners MW being on the to hit roll and not wound has always intrigued me, shame it ends the attack sequence unlike all other great weapons in CoS.
A Knight Azyros allowing rerolls of 1 could be a handy force multiplier when fishing for 6's but hard to get in position if your throw the executioners across the field turn 1.

I wonder if there will be a trend towards MW stopping regular dmg.  It seems fairly inconsistent but I haven't followed if it is an emerging trend or random.  RR to trigger things on 6s is probably better than boosting the to-hit.  Granted their regular attacks are of quality.  I agree about Cogs.  Everyone else had it for such a long time..  Granted there are places it is still a must.  Darkwalker Warherd (not competitive but damn fun) is one place.

On 6/26/2020 at 9:01 AM, Kramer said:

Basically the argument was with the amount of 'mega-caster' armies relying on magic while you're not one of them will be pretty pointless. Which depending on your where you will bring this set-up, will be very much hit or miss. 

Just throwing it out there as something to consider. Plenty of armies where it will work though.

I was thinking about that and Slaanesh.  Long time players stopped playing or just went full-on.  Now that thread is more abandoned than the BoC thread (of whom took the brunt of the blast when Slaanesh came out for abandonment).   I guess we aren't seeing tournaments but I wonder if Tzeentch could have prolonged been an issue or would Lumineth have been the hard counter 3 months after GW sold a butt-load of Tzeentch armies

What tends to happen also is some Clever Hans like Darren Watson comes along and sees a hard counter to the immediate threat.  Go no magic if it is only going to be shut down.  Nemesis the nemesis list.  Granted I stopped playing tournaments years ago so I'm much happier now

[Popisdead]

On 6/26/2020 at 1:38 PM, Slave2Chaos said:

@Kramer

I honestly think that the biggest weakness in the above tactic is the fact that Cities will rarely get to determine who goes first and thus must deploy accordingly. 

Ultimately I am always looking for ways to get my old dark elves on the table and am grateful for executioners to even be a topic of discussion again. 

Lumineth will also be bringing the ignore -1 rend to the table again so depending on how popular they end up being in your meta that could be a factor.

This is the biggest thing weighing on me for LC and TE.  Being an old Wood Elf player I'm looking at building up.  I think it dictates also to have larger units (20-30) unless you can really pull some LC ambushing shenanigans.  

I agree it's nice to have our older models still work.  Pretty sick of rebasing though... haha.

Luminet, bastiladons, and Petrifix make SotW and DAemonettes, etc more viable.  We also don't know what Behemat will bring.  I wonder if Beasts of Chaos with massive rend stacking will become viable even mid tier again. (you're -5... to that save)...