Tempest Eye Discussion

[rockmanko]

So Endrin better than Skywarden?

[Kimbo]

Hi all! 

Thinking about doing a smaller 1k project with CoS. Would love to hear what has worked for you on that point level?  

Any fun, yet decent lists out there? 

 

[Maddpainting]

Do you want to be Locked into TE? If not might be better to make a generic post and ask about it.

[zilberfrid]

Now that I have started a bit of Kharadron, I am really interested in making a nice mechanised army for TE.

Skitarii  made into handgunners  (nothing lost on the handgunners except the monkey), Sicarians made into Pistoleers and Outriders,  Guards with added Skitarii bits, Tech Priest Grombrindel becoming a leader, and General on Griffin mechanised as well (perhaps based on the Gyrocopter).

Backstory works well with this spire being higher than usual, thus necessitating a more intimate relationship with the Kharadron and breathing masks.

I am in this mostly for the hobby, not actually playing, but I do want to make it a playable list eventually. I'll update once I actually made stuff for it.

[zilberfrid]

On 1/12/2020 at 12:04 AM, Kimbo said:

Hi all! 

Thinking about doing a smaller 1k project with CoS. Would love to hear what has worked for you on that point level?  

Any fun, yet decent lists out there? 

Is this Meeting Engagements, or plain old 1k points? Also, what do you have?

[Kimbo]

14 minutes ago, zilberfrid said:

Is this Meeting Engagements, or plain old 1k points? Also, what do you have?

Oh, sorry! 

 

Just regular 1k matched play . 

 

I don't have anything. So the sky is the limit!

[zilberfrid]

4 minutes ago, Kimbo said:

Oh, sorry! 

 

Just regular 1k matched play . 

 

I don't have anything. So the sky is the limit!

I myself don't play, but Tempest's Eye (this thread) is considered quite a good one.

What playstyle do you like, and which of the races in Cities do you like? (there are a LOT of warscrolls, so some narrowing down is neccessary).

[readercolin]

2 hours ago, Kimbo said:

Oh, sorry! 

 

Just regular 1k matched play . 

 

I don't have anything. So the sky is the limit!

Options:

The Darkling Coven:
2 Sorceress on Foot
2x 20 Darkshards
30 Black Guard

This army gives you great mobility, as the sorceress's allow you to run and still shoot/charge with any darkling coven unit (though it does cost a command point).  Note with the darkshards, this means that they have a minimum 11" move (6+3 from tempest eye + 2 from run and hornblower), alongside a 16" shooting range, for a minimum of 27" range with their bolts turn 1.  Black guard meanwhile have a 11" move + 2d6+1" charge, for a minimum of 14", but an average of 21" threat range on turn 1.  Make one sorceress the general with the +1 to wound at range trait, the other the adjutant, and give one of them the spell that gives you a command point, and the other the spell that gives +1 attacks in melee.

The Fortress:
2 Runelords
1 Celestial Hurricanum with Battlemage
20 Irondrakes
10 longbeards
10 ironbreakers

This army is built around the fact that you can have a block of 20 irondrakes that are hitting on a 2+ (hurricanum), potentially with re-rolls due to the command trait, wounding on a 2+ (tempest eye command trait), re-rolling 1's because of the longbeards, and then hitting with rend 3 (rend 1 buffed twice with the runelords).  This has them doing an average of ~40 wounds if they don't move, 20 if they do (and that is do a 4+ save or worse).  Meanwhile the longbeards and ironbreakers are there to screen you with their 3+ saves.

Freeguild Detachment:
1 Freeguild General
1 Luminark of Hysh with Battemage
40 Freeguild Guard
3x 10 Handgunners
50 points for a command point or endless spell

This army uses the fact that the general can buff all 3 units of handgunners at once, and they can be hitting on 2+/2+ with the command ability and not moving (plus 3 30" range -1 rend 2 damage shots from the sharpshooters).  The guard are there to screen, and the Luminark gives some spell power, a 6+ shrug aura, and some more ranged damage.

There are a lot more potential builds that you can run with tempest eye (much less cities of sigmar).  Realistically, for 1000 points I would tell you to look for you to decide what battleline unit (which is most of the non-war machine/monster units) you like the best, and then build around that unit.  Figure out what that unit wants to do, and what role it plays, and then give it the support that it needs to shine.  

[Ashman]

I'm really considering bringing in Arkanauts as objective holders now that they have a base 4up save and bonus to hit when near objectives. They seem better as primary objective holders now for these reasons.   I'm thinking of pairing them up with Evocators (to deal with threats) and/or Ironbreakers (to outflank and tarpit threats while the Arkanauts take shots at stuff in range).

Have I lost my mind?  Seems like it might work.... 

Someone talk me off the ledge please..

[Ashman]

On 1/8/2020 at 2:21 AM, rockmanko said:

So Endrin better than Skywarden?

Haven't done the hard math but it depends on what the target is.  Seems that Skywardens (especially it they have volletyguns) will end up taking off more models per turn if the are being put into stuff with 5 or 6up saves.  While Riggers will likely do better against stuff with 4up or better saves.

Kinda depends on what you are going for/what your army needs in my view.

Riggers hit harder and more often but Wardens have more attacks with the ability to drop mortal wounds when running away.  So basically I look at it this way...

Hordy low save target - send in Wardens.

Elite (better save)  low count target - use Riggers.

Edited January 13, 2020 by Ashman

[readercolin]

3 hours ago, Ashman said:

Haven't done the hard math but it depends on what the target is.  Seems that Skywardens (especially it they have volletyguns) will end up taking off more models per turn if the are being put into stuff with 5 or 6up saves.  While Riggers will likely do better against stuff with 4up or better saves.

Kinda depends on what you are going for/what your army needs in my view.

Riggers hit harder and more often but Wardens have more attacks with the ability to drop mortal wounds when running away.  So basically I look at it this way...

Hordy low save target - send in Wardens.

Elite (better save)  low count target - use Riggers.

Doing the math (ish) when using AoS Stashammer (https://aos-statshammer.herokuapp.com/), we can look at them when in melee or at range.

If we decide to maximize their melee power, then a unit of riggers does more damage than a unit of wardens on any save better than a 5+.  This remains the truth for any set of balloon boys from 3 models all the way through 12. 

Looking at ranged power, riggers have more shots, but only a 9" range with their rivet guns.  Wardens have fewer shots, but a better profile and better range.   Looking at damage though, riggers will always outdamage wardens (if they are in range). However, if you are trying to maximize ranged power for either, you are going to be running their special weapons, which are exactly the same between the two.  Notable here - wardens can shoot their pistols after they hitch a ride, while riggers would be out of range (but now you have a boat AND a unit of balloon boys, which is tighter on the points in Cities than in KO).

The last "special" thing to note is that wardens can do mortal wounds if they retreat, while riggers can heal a boat.  After reviewing through everything... I would probably always run riggers in a CoS army, and only look to run wardens to tag along with boats and shoot after they land.  For those points, you aren't bringing either to charge into a hordy low save unit, as even a unit of 12 wardens maxes out at about 16 damage in melee.  So instead I would focus on having the saws for better melee damage, and if you want fast ranged units you are going to be bringing special weapons anyways, so the model really doesn't matter.

[Kimbo]

4 hours ago, readercolin said:

Options:

The Darkling Coven:
2 Sorceress on Foot
2x 20 Darkshards
30 Black Guard

This army gives you great mobility, as the sorceress's allow you to run and still shoot/charge with any darkling coven unit (though it does cost a command point).  Note with the darkshards, this means that they have a minimum 11" move (6+3 from tempest eye + 2 from run and hornblower), alongside a 16" shooting range, for a minimum of 27" range with their bolts turn 1.  Black guard meanwhile have a 11" move + 2d6+1" charge, for a minimum of 14", but an average of 21" threat range on turn 1.  Make one sorceress the general with the +1 to wound at range trait, the other the adjutant, and give one of them the spell that gives you a command point, and the other the spell that gives +1 attacks in melee.

The Fortress:
2 Runelords
1 Celestial Hurricanum with Battlemage
20 Irondrakes
10 longbeards
10 ironbreakers

This army is built around the fact that you can have a block of 20 irondrakes that are hitting on a 2+ (hurricanum), potentially with re-rolls due to the command trait, wounding on a 2+ (tempest eye command trait), re-rolling 1's because of the longbeards, and then hitting with rend 3 (rend 1 buffed twice with the runelords).  This has them doing an average of ~40 wounds if they don't move, 20 if they do (and that is do a 4+ save or worse).  Meanwhile the longbeards and ironbreakers are there to screen you with their 3+ saves.

Freeguild Detachment:
1 Freeguild General
1 Luminark of Hysh with Battemage
40 Freeguild Guard
3x 10 Handgunners
50 points for a command point or endless spell

This army uses the fact that the general can buff all 3 units of handgunners at once, and they can be hitting on 2+/2+ with the command ability and not moving (plus 3 30" range -1 rend 2 damage shots from the sharpshooters).  The guard are there to screen, and the Luminark gives some spell power, a 6+ shrug aura, and some more ranged damage.

There are a lot more potential builds that you can run with tempest eye (much less cities of sigmar).  Realistically, for 1000 points I would tell you to look for you to decide what battleline unit (which is most of the non-war machine/monster units) you like the best, and then build around that unit.  Figure out what that unit wants to do, and what role it plays, and then give it the support that it needs to shine.  

Maybe a elf-themed army? 

1x anointed (general)

1x mage 

2x 20 Phoenix Guard 

10x Shadow Warriors

Geminids

[Rangeltoft]

9 hours ago, readercolin said:

Looking at ranged power, riggers have more shots, but only a 9" range with their rivet guns.  Wardens have fewer shots, but a better profile and better range.   Looking at damage though, riggers will always outdamage wardens (if they are in range). However, if you are trying to maximize ranged power for either, you are going to be running their special weapons, which are exactly the same between the two.  Notable here - wardens can shoot their pistols after they hitch a ride, while riggers would be out of range (but now you have a boat AND a unit of balloon boys, which is tighter on the points in Cities than in KO).

Its the other way around for the range attacks, Wardens are 9” and Riggers are 12”

[readercolin]

7 hours ago, Rangeltoft said:

Its the other way around for the range attacks, Wardens are 9” and Riggers are 12”

... shush... you saw nothing...  I totally wasn't staring back and forth between two warscrolls for 5 minutes while I did the math for that post...

On the other hand... now I literally can't think of ever running Wardens outside of that ones specific skyport that gives them +1/+1 to hit/wound rolls when they charge.  They literally provide nothing beneficial over riggers...

[readercolin]

17 hours ago, Kimbo said:

Maybe a elf-themed army? 

1x anointed (general)

1x mage 

2x 20 Phoenix Guard 

10x Shadow Warriors

Geminids

Its a valid army.  That being said, that army might work better as something other than tempest eye, as you don't really have anything there that really benefits from tempest eye allegiance abilities.  For tempest eye, I find it best to run more shooting to take advantage of the "Hawk Eyed" command trait, or to run a big monster that can take advantage of Swift as the Wind, or run a hard-charging army (ex. demigryphs) to take advantage of Aether Guard Captain and Zepheryte Banner.  But if those are the models that you want to run, go for it - and then just change up what city you are running it as until you find a city that works best for them.  Personally, I would run that list as either Hammerhall or Hallowheart.

[AlmGandix3]

50 minutes ago, readercolin said:

... shush... you saw nothing...  I totally wasn't staring back and forth between two warscrolls for 5 minutes while I did the math for that post...

On the other hand... now I literally can't think of ever running Wardens outside of that ones specific skyport that gives them +1/+1 to hit/wound rolls when they charge.  They literally provide nothing beneficial over riggers...

They still got a niche I think. If you can buff their hit and wound in melee they could be comparable. I can only think of +1 to hit with hurricanum so that may not be possible. 

On the other hand they can add mortal wound output to your army with their mines which is very situational. 

I agree with you that Endrinrigger are overall better for CoS especially with the +1 attack spell. Wardens probably need more support to outshine them which isn't worth it most of the time.

[Myrdin]

So in regards to the newly release KO battletome I have to ask. Do you think they became a must take for a shooty Tempest Eye army ?

Or can we do just fine with the CoS stuff we have available to us ? 
I never really like KO to begin with. The steapunk setting that look like it got take from Shadowrun is completely missed on me as far as AoS > a high fantasy setting < is concerned.  But I am quite the fan of Tempest Eye and what it has going for it. Together with Living City its my favorite and most fun to play unless I wanna do something specific like heavy artillery, or Battle line Hydra and such  

 

 

Edited January 14, 2020 by Myrdin

[readercolin]

2 minutes ago, Myrdin said:

So in regards to the newly release KO battletome I have to ask. Do you think they became a must take for a shooty Tempest Eye army ?

Or can we do just fine with the CoS stuff we have available to us ? 
I never really like KO to begin with. The steapunk setting that look like it got take from Shadowrun is completely missed on me as far as AoS > a high fantasy setting < is concerned.  But I am quite the fan of Tempest Eye and what it has going for it. Together with Living City its my favorite and most fun to play unless I wanna do something specific like heavy artillery, or Battle line Hydra and such  

KO is completely unnecessary for Tempest eye, and also wasn't really necessary prior.  If you don't want to run them, you will just have to run Irondrakes, Sisters of the Watch, Darkshards, Shadow Warriors, Handgunners, Crossbowmen, Rockets, volley guns, pistoliteers, outriders, dark riders, or steam tanks.  Or... and hear me out here... you could even run Judicators.  Or maybe a unit of Vanguard Raptors with Hurricane Crossbows?  After all, Longstrikes are soooo stormcast only.

Basically, before the new book KO was good in tempest eye competitively because you could take a block of Arkanaut's with skyhooks, get 2 shots from each skyhook because of the Khemist, and have the +1 to hit from the Hurricanum and +1 to wound from Hawk Eyed, making them a unit that could delete a lot of stuff.  However, even that was arguable as to whether or not that was better than teleporting forward a unit of irondrakes or sisters with the bridge.  Now that Arkanaughts have changed, there really isn't anything that KO provides that cities doesn't do better outside of the mobility of boats with Fly High - which Cities can't take advantage of anywhere near as well as a KO only list can do.  This leaves KO as a fun addition to the army for flavor, but not something that is vital in any way.

This of course is also ignoring the other things that tempest eye can do, and only focuses on the shooting.  Because shooting was the only thing that KO brought to the table that was arguably better than other units in Tempest Eye.  Now though I expect to occasionally see a boat for flavor reasons, but they will probably disappear from any competitive tempest eye lists.

[SwampHeart]

1 hour ago, Myrdin said:

So in regards to the newly release KO battletome I have to ask. Do you think they became a must take for a shooty Tempest Eye army ?

Or can we do just fine with the CoS stuff we have available to us ? 
I never really like KO to begin with. The steapunk setting that look like it got take from Shadowrun is completely missed on me as far as AoS > a high fantasy setting < is concerned.  But I am quite the fan of Tempest Eye and what it has going for it. Together with Living City its my favorite and most fun to play unless I wanna do something specific like heavy artillery, or Battle line Hydra and such  

I've put away TE now that the changes to KO have gone through. I don't hate the book or anything but I'm uninterested in TE without the incredibly strong alpha KO provided. 

[WatcherintheWater]

Without the Khemist buff, most KO infantry feels duplicative to other infantry options:

• Arkanauts are pretty similar to Bleakswords or Freeguild guard. Cheap battleline that won't do too much damage. A little less combat traded for the 9" pistols.
• Endrinriggers/Skywardens are pretty similar to Outriders/Pistoliers. If you build them with all the shooting options, you can have a good mobile ranged unit though.
• Thunderers are basically more expensive Irondrakes with an extra wound.

If you want to use KO in a TE list, one potential option is to take an Ironclad and just drop it as far forward and fire away on turn 1. Then your opponent has to deal with an 18 wound model that has a 2+ save on turn 1. Very tough for an army without much rend or mortal wounds. Would be even better if you could get an arcane shield on it.

A frigate or ironclad with a KO general hero gives you a pretty fast & durable Hawk-Eye general that can keep up with mobile units. Can put out some decent shooting of it's own too.

[AlmGandix3]

For me there are only three things I'd take from KO. A gunhauler with Endrinriggers with one grapnel launcher which gives you a very mobile unit that can tie up some units you don't want to charge your main force, snipe some characters or just do chip damage and capture objectives. The new gunhauler alone seems nice, but I need to test it. I also like the underworlds crew 140 points for a lot of shooting including a character seems nice.

 

I don't think anything is absolutely needed to succeed, but I like the options.

[Cauthon]

Hey guys. Just started getting games in with my KO. While they did “fix” a lot of major issues they seem imo, a mid tier army. I was looking at CoS and you guys seem to have a lot more answers to different problems. 

 

What do do you think of this list, does it have what you need synergistically to get the most out of the dispossessed units?

 

Battlemage on griffon

Battlemage on griffon 

celestia huricanum 

 

Longbeards x 30

outriders

outriders

 

Irondrakes x 20

 

gunhauler-drill cannon

endrinriggers x 6 skyhook, grapel 

 

Everything starts turtled up and then gunhauler and riggers can split off, battle mages go do stuff. 

 

Greybeards screen and buff iron drake and hurricanum.  

Do I need a disposed character for the gun line? I have a frostheart I’d be glad to work in. 

Would you drop gunhauler to buff the endrinriggers to get the most of the TE spell (+1 attack) or is the deep strike ability the clutch part of the equation?

 

semi competitive?

 

[zilberfrid]

2 hours ago, Cauthon said:

Hey guys. Just started getting games in with my KO. While they did “fix” a lot of major issues they seem imo, a mid tier army. I was looking at CoS and you guys seem to have a lot more answers to different problems. 

 

What do do you think of this list, does it have what you need synergistically to get the most out of the dispossessed units?

 

Battlemage on griffon

Battlemage on griffon 

celestia huricanum 

 

Longbeards x 30

outriders

outriders

 

Irondrakes x 20

 

gunhauler-drill cannon

endrinriggers x 6 skyhook, grapel 

 

Everything starts turtled up and then gunhauler and riggers can split off, battle mages go do stuff. 

 

Greybeards screen and buff iron drake and hurricanum.  

Do I need a disposed character for the gun line? I have a frostheart I’d be glad to work in. 

Would you drop gunhauler to buff the endrinriggers to get the most of the TE spell (+1 attack) or is the deep strike ability the clutch part of the equation?

semi competitive?

Battlemages on griffins are hardly worth it. If you want to bring a fast flying mage, stick the Thermalwind Cloak on a Hurricanum.

This would also be a good modelling opportunity to get some Kharadron feel in there.

I'd say the following is a possibility:

TE

Cel Hur w mage 280 with cloak

Knight Incantor 140

Runelord 90

10 Longbeards  110

30 Longbeards 270

20 Irondrakes 300

20 Irondrakes 300

30 Ironbreakers 330

6* Edrinriggers 200

Gunhauler 150

Bridge 50

The KI is a somewhat durable mage (with Aura of Glory to buff Longbeards), the Longbeards are your screen that can buff, and the gunhauler can take the riggers where they need to be.

 

 

 

[zilberfrid]

So, the new Skitarii horsies will be brilliant.

They have two different heads, with a few extra bits you can make quite a few of them.

My idea for my TE force is that the city is very high up, and the horses can't get enough oxygen naturally to do combat. The city fixed this in the following way.

• Horses with oxygen tubes in their nose
• Horses that have been magically spliced with birds as a sort of smaller demigryph (with Tsaangor bits)
• Horses with mechanical augmentation in the legs to limit the oxygen need (for instance Sicaran feet)
• Mechanical horses with a covering of leather to make citizens less alarmed
• Mechanical horses with a covering of leather that has torn in combat, making it more alarming (horses with the extra mechanical head and spare skitarii feet)
• Mechanical horses (as shown below)

I will also blend humans and dwarves and use the flyers as Skywardens or Knights Azyros, or those other Stormcast flying things. Needs quite a bit of AoSification though.

Edited January 24, 2020 by zilberfrid

[Myrdin]

Hey guys.

So I have a game scheduled for 1500pts against Khorne. But I havent played against the new (I know its not new anymore I know) Khorne yet. This is what I thought of bringing but I am not sure what to expect, other than lots of face smashing, un-dispelable spel..."prayers"* cough cough, and extremely tough and scary Juggernauts. I know there will be some summoning and bunch of small heroes running around buffing stuff.

I wonder if Tempest eye is a good choice against Khorne.

This is what I used in my last game against Nighthaunt and did fairly (-1 battlemage and the PG, had some other stuff in that one) well so I was thinking of going with something similar.  But the issue is whether this is not too heavy on magic and shooting. Khorne was always good at dispelling or at least thats the idea I had.

Celestial Hurricanum With Celestial Battlemage (280) (Thermalrider for artifact and +1to wound for Shooting)

Battlemage (90)

Battlemage (90)

UNITS

2x10 x Freeguild Guard (2x80) - Shields  

2x10 x Shadow Warriors (2x110) 

10 x Sisters of the Watch (160)

20 x Freeguild Greatswords (320)

10 x Phoenix Guard (160)

 

I was considering dropping the Greatswords, doubling up on Sisters and add in some more chaff or perhaps Aetherworld Pendelum.

The problem is, his Endless prayers, will most likely be pain in the as* and will force me to move a lot. While I am not worried about the regular stuff, the Juggernauts with 5W and 3+ save put the chills in me and I am really not sure what to do about them If I am forced to move around (thus never getting that impart double tap on Sisters). Was considering dropping sisters entirely and going with two Rocket Batteries for that -2 Rend.

Regarding Bloodthirsters, I know he has one and one DP, no idea about the remainder of the list though.

So uh... yeah, any advice or help is appreciated.

Edited February 13, 2020 by Myrdin