Tempest Eye Discussion

[zilberfrid]

8 minutes ago, Aelfric said:

If only they still had Squats.

They do, again. Two in Necromunda, one in AdMech.

[Aelfric]

2 minutes ago, zilberfrid said:

They do, again. Two in Necromunda, one in AdMech.

Nice to hear they survived after all.

[kenshin620]

Thats quite a bit of dakka right there! The new endrinmaster model.

 

While I'm sure KO will be most effective in KO, the new book certainly will make Tempest Eye interesting.

[Dr Ben]

49 minutes ago, kenshin620 said:

Thats quite a bit of dakka right there! The new endrinmaster model.

 

While I'm sure KO will be most effective in KO, the new book certainly will make Tempest Eye interesting.

Endrinmaster definitely shaping up nicely. Reliable, if not massive, damage. 

The thing that caught my eye was that flying high is in the warscroll changes section on of the reveal. How about teleporting airships in tempests eye? 

[Aelfric]

1 hour ago, kenshin620 said:

Thats quite a bit of dakka right there! The new endrinmaster model.

 

While I'm sure KO will be most effective in KO, the new book certainly will make Tempest Eye interesting.

Do we know if he gets all weapons or has to choose?

[Gecktron]

16 minutes ago, Aelfric said:

Do we know if he gets all weapons or has to choose?

Probably all of them. The model shown has the cannon and the saw in his "real" hands, the weapon battery behind him and the gaze of grungni is in the helmet (the normal Endrinmaster doesnt have a visible gun but has a similar helmet). 

Edited December 30, 2019 by Gecktron

[Aelfric]

32 minutes ago, Gecktron said:

Probably all of them. The model shown has the cannon and the saw in his "real" hands, the weapon battery behind him and the gaze of grungni is in the helmet (the normal Endrinmaster doesnt have a visible gun but has a similar helmet). 

He's packing quite a nice punch then.  I'm looking forward to seeing what KO have to offer us in Tempest.  I've always liked the Thunderers, just want them to bring something different to the table.  Hoping a Frigate is viable too.

[zilberfrid]

So, my current thinking is to get one Khemist, 20 Thunderers* and an Ironclad.

If the thunderers are worth it, that is. Alternatively 10 thunderers and a Frigate.

It should be a nice force, compactly transportable across the battlefield. It is also quite a few points (currently 790, 430 for the frigate option).

Only 3 units though, so I need just 9 to make it work.

*Thunderers probably largely made from Irondrakes, not worth what GW asks for them.

It will change a few times before I get to employing them though.

[Heaven_lord]

Hey! I want to strat a Duardin (and maybe artillery pieces) army for 1k pts games (mostly in doubles)

Would you have good lists to share ?

 

thanks a lot !

[dekay]

2 hours ago, Heaven_lord said:

Hey! I want to strat a Duardin (and maybe artillery pieces) army for 1k pts games (mostly in doubles)

Would you have good lists to share ?

If it's a duardin army you want, you should wait for the new Kharadron battletome. Barak-Thryng skyport is exactly what you're looking for, a list combining all duardin factions.

In CoS, single race lists tend to underperform, to say the least.

[Popisdead]

On 12/19/2019 at 5:21 AM, Rune said:

30 Arkanaut with Hurricanum and Khemist costs 780 points.
50 Freeguild Handgunner or Crossbowmen and a Hurricanum costs 780 points. 
30 SotW with a Hurricanum costs 760 points.

30 SotW w/ Nomad Prince is 660.  Sorry to be pedantic but it highlights looking internally at the moment.

[Aelfric]

47 minutes ago, Popisdead said:

30 SotW w/ Nomad Prince is 660.  Sorry to be pedantic but it highlights looking internally at the moment.

30 SotW plus Nomad Prince is 600

 (sorry to be pedantic  )

[Double Misfire]

Review embargo on Kharadron's up, here's  a blog post and video that cover the changes:

https://www.goonhammer.com/age-of-sigmar-review-kharadron-overlords/

 

The Arknaut Admiral has an inbuilt ability to pass wounds onto skyfarers on a 5+ now, could make for a very durable general combined with bodyguard.

[AlmGandix3]

well I think it is a win for us since skywardens and endrinriggers both got buffs and now the gunhauler also looks nice.

I thought about getting the tome for the duardin city but I think I like CoS still more.

[dekay]

Thunderers, skywardens, gunhaulers and admiral all look nice. 

Let's talk about our 'core' KO contingent, Khemist and Arkanauts. Arkanaut save got better. This is a plus. As is their price drop. Oh and also, skyhooks dropped from 24 shots per unit to 4. And they lost 6 from their range. Volley gun got better, but it's range is 12. And they lost their +1 when shooting at monsters, replaced with +1 when on objective. 

So basically, they turned from long range 1st turn threat to short range objective clearing unit, as long as you provide some mobility for them (their transports got better, so there's that!). It's a different unit now. I'm not saying worse. Just different. I'd advise against trying to use it in their previous role, this is job for our native shooters now.

[Gwendar]

The Khemist losing the +1 attack buff is what's big here in my opinion (at least for us in TE) and I feel it sort of kills my planned Endrin list. That automatically cut's their damage in half and I don't know that they're worth it now and Skywardens aren't much better.

I'll wait for the app to get updated so I can have a proper read through the scrolls, but I'm starting to think I'll need to look at other CoS units to fulfill a fast hammer. On average 9 Endrins will still be doing ~12 damage with the saws buffed with +1 hit from the Hurricanum, but I don't think they're worth\able to be kept in range for that over Hammerers and Irondrakes... hardly the unit deleting stuff as before.

Maybe I should look at them as more of a light cav unit that can kill weak objectives\flanks without support instead of the unit deleting thing that they were. It still complements the rest of the Dwarf list but in a much lesser way. I could potentially see 10 Thunderers + a Frigate as a replacement, but not sure it's worth it.

Edited January 4, 2020 by Gwendar

[stratigo]

12 hours ago, AlmGandix3 said:

well I think it is a win for us since skywardens and endrinriggers both got buffs and now the gunhauler also looks nice.

I thought about getting the tome for the duardin city but I think I like CoS still more.

Ummm, wardens are unchanged and riggers got hard nerfed without a khemist buff

[AlmGandix3]

7 minutes ago, stratigo said:

Ummm, wardens are unchanged and riggers got hard nerfed without a khemist buff

Skywardens now have two shots with theri pistol, the grapnel launcher is very nice now since it has utility and does damage. The mines also seem better.

Endrinriggers are now 100pts same as skywardens and also gain the grapnel launcher changes. They also got better at reparing skyvessels. With the tempest eye spell you can still get extra attacks for either of them.

For me these will be fast distracting units that cap objectives if possible and maybe support a gunhauler in case of endrinriggers. The gunhauler gives a unit of up to 6 also a teleport which is really nice.

[Gwendar]

1 hour ago, AlmGandix3 said:

With the tempest eye spell you can still get extra attacks for either of them.

For me these will be fast distracting units that cap objectives if possible and maybe support a gunhauler in case of endrinriggers. The gunhauler gives a unit of up to 6 also a teleport which is really nice.

Remember, Aura of Glory is exactly that; a 12" aura. I think the only thing that's going to keep up with them in TE is the Hurricanum, and personally I would rather have that buffing my -2 rend, 20 Hammerers unit that just cross the Soulscream bridge and are getting a 6" charge across it and they will be putting out ~14 more wounds out on average (on basic mathhammer math with RR 1's from Azyros) against a 4+ than 9 Endrins buffed the same way.

So yeah, as light cav sure.. but I want their purpose here to be as a melee unit. Skywardens with only Skypikes are going to be doing about the same (slightly less) as the Endrins and the pistol shots still leave the Endrins ahead. I'm not considering 6 + a Gunhauler, but 9 + a Gunhauler is on my mind, despite not getting the Hitchers rule at full unit size and it would be cheaper than the previous Khemist + Endrin route. It would be a group that go off on it's own just as before, but I'm not sure a Gunhauler will be doing much for the list. I could always add 10 Thunderers + a Frigate, but at that point I would have to ask myself why I'm not just taking more Irondrakes?

I dunno... overall I just feel that new KO really want's to build lists around their ships and everything else seems to have been taken down a notch. I may still roll with 9 Endrins on their own as it would leave me with 210 points for something else. At the same time, hanging around with a 150 point flying cannon that may 1-shot a support hero with some luck (and be a decent screen, if needed) that can be healed by the Endrins isn't terrible. Just preferred it the other way with the Khemist is all 😉

[Satyrical Sophist]

I want to try out some new KO stuff in TE. I'd like to try ... Basically everything.

I'd like to try both Gunhaulers and Frigates, both seem to benefit a lot from sharp eyed and hurricanum. The shrapnel mode and carbine gives a lot of close range punch. I also want to know whether you can have a KO general with sharp eyed giving the bonus from his frigate or ironclad. I think you can.

The arkanauts are cheap and pretty durable. I could see fitting some onto a frigate for grabbing objectives. Though I'd probably be more tempted to pair riggers with Gunhaulers to fly high and grab an objective.

I think a front line unit of thunderers might be worth it, kept just back from screens gives an extra screen and a way to use the debuff and get extra cannon shots.

I also want to try an ironclad because I am a weak man. I am holding off on getting an ironclad til I paint the frigate I ordered though 

[Dr Ben]

51 minutes ago, Satyrical Sophist said:

I want to try out some new KO stuff in TE. I'd like to try ... Basically everything.

I'd like to try both Gunhaulers and Frigates, both seem to benefit a lot from sharp eyed and hurricanum. The shrapnel mode and carbine gives a lot of close range punch. I also want to know whether you can have a KO general with sharp eyed giving the bonus from his frigate or ironclad. I think you can.

The arkanauts are cheap and pretty durable. I could see fitting some onto a frigate for grabbing objectives. Though I'd probably be more tempted to pair riggers with Gunhaulers to fly high and grab an objective.

I think a front line unit of thunderers might be worth it, kept just back from screens gives an extra screen and a way to use the debuff and get extra cannon shots.

I also want to try an ironclad because I am a weak man. I am holding off on getting an ironclad til I paint the frigate I ordered though 

Realistically I'm hoping for an ironclad next Christmas, I may just about have finished painting my other dispossessed and KO by then. However, once its done I will have a hawk-eyed KO general waving a zephyrite banner from the prow of his ironclad as he, and his trusty crew, drop down from the sky, shoot something to hell and then charge into glorious combat!

One a more tactically sound note, Arkanauts just became a great cheap screen for a dwarven gun-line tempests eye list. No need for beardless humans any more and they might occasionally get to shoot something important. For me, irondrakes are clear favourites over thunderers now in CoS. The thunderers are a bit more durable point for point which is nice, but their damage output is definitely less without access to old chemist +1 shot, whilst irondrakes still get -1 rend from runesmiths or longbeard re-rolls. Although I do already own irondrakes and have them painted, so I'm not exactly unbiased......

On ‎1‎/‎5‎/‎2020 at 1:44 AM, Gwendar said:

I dunno... overall I just feel that new KO really want's to build lists around their ships and everything else seems to have been taken down a notch. I may still roll with 9 Endrins on their own as it would leave me with 210 points for something else. At the same time, hanging around with a 150 point flying cannon that may 1-shot a support hero with some luck (and be a decent screen, if needed) that can be healed by the Endrins isn't terrible. Just preferred it the other way with the Khemist is all 😉

Yeah, KO have definitely moved to be more ship focussed. Which is a buff to fun if not necessarily effectiveness. I also feel like both types of balloon boys will be less melee focussed and more of a mobile gun platform with their ranged options. They can still zoom across the table and shoot whatever you need to die and the old chemist buff didn't work that well on them anyway. Throw them into melee and they will just get punched to death by some ogors who don't give a ****** about their 1A -2 rend d3 damage.

[Gwendar]

1 minute ago, Dr Ben said:

I also feel like both types of balloon boys will be less melee focussed and more of a mobile gun platform with their ranged options. They can still zoom across the table and shoot whatever you need to die and the old chemist buff didn't work that well on them anyway. Throw them into melee and they will just get punched to death by some ogors who don't give a ****** about their 1A -2 rend d3 damage.

Which is what I have a problem with. Running them as fast melee hammers with reasonably good pistol shots before the charge in an otherwise immobile army of Dwarves (aside from bridge teleporting 1-3 units somewhere) was a magnificent compliment. Now I feel that their shooting isn't great and neither is their melee, shifting them towards light cavalry, which isn't bad but.. not what I wanted in them.

The Chemist buff literally doubled the Endrins damage with the Saws; you were looking at ~31 damage on average against a 5+ save which would absolutely brutalize those units of 12 Gluttons everyone runs.. and that's not counting their pistol shots they would put into them beforehand. Ogres can punch nearly anything to death with their low\no rend and high damage hits.. so that could be said for anything charging into them.

[Ashman]

3 hours ago, Gwendar said:

Which is what I have a problem with. Running them as fast melee hammers with reasonably good pistol shots before the charge in an otherwise immobile army of Dwarves (aside from bridge teleporting 1-3 units somewhere) was a magnificent compliment. Now I feel that their shooting isn't great and neither is their melee, shifting them towards light cavalry, which isn't bad but.. not what I wanted in them.

The Chemist buff literally doubled the Endrins damage with the Saws; you were looking at ~31 damage on average against a 5+ save which would absolutely brutalize those units of 12 Gluttons everyone runs.. and that's not counting their pistol shots they would put into them beforehand. Ogres can punch nearly anything to death with their low\no rend and high damage hits.. so that could be said for anything charging into them.

I respectfully disagree.  I think they are actually better now than they were - especially when you consider points costs.  Running the new hero with a unit of riggers and a gunhauler will be a thing - especially with the Tempest Eye spell that gives +1 melee attacks (this is better than within KO now actually - we effectively have the old khemist buff on EVERYTHING in range not just one weapon) - just use a flying/mounted SCE or CoS mage to keep up with the units.  With Skyhooks giving +1 charge and Grapple hooks pinning the enemy unit in place at a flat 3 damage for each gun a unit of 9 to 12 bubble boys ain't bad at all actually.  The gunhauler is tougher/stronger to boot.  It's gonna be a real thing - moreso than before in my view.

 

Explain how this got worse??  U just see the opposite.  I am confused.

[Gwendar]

12 minutes ago, Ashman said:

Explain how this got worse??  U just see the opposite.  I am confused.

Okay, so: They can still fully achieve that purpose of murdering something by way of Aura of Glory. The problem I have with that, is that I was running 20 Hammerers across a Bridge with the Wizard casting that spell and the Hammerers are going to do far more damage buffed up than 9 Endrins. Previously I would've been able to get that on the Hammerers and still have the Endrins get +1 from the Khemist. So I now have to effectively choose who gets what. So yeah, let's say the Bridge fails to cast or deployment has somehow made the Endrins the better option to buff.. then of course I'll make that choice and Endrins are just fine. I guess in summary, the whole point is that both of these units (Hammerers and Endrins) were never going to be wholly within 12" of the Wizard casting it and while I could run the Hurricanum around with them, the whole point is to have it supporting the Hammerers and Irondrakes with the Bridge. Remember Aura of Glory only affects units with +1 attack while they stay wholly within 12".. it doesn't just get applied and stay as a buff.

I don't see any value in bringing the Endrinmaster + 9 Endrins + a Gunhauler for 670 points when the Endrinmaster is only going to heal (and make the Endrins better at healing) the Gunhauler? Not that the Gunhauler is bad; it's incredible for 150 points in my opinion.. but that's a lot of stock to put on something that can easily get blown out of the sky in 1 round of shooting\combat and then they have nothing to heal, but I guess that's the case with any unit.

I can see 6-9 Endrins + a Gunhauler in TE lists (and it would've been on par points-wise with the previous 9 Endrins + Kehmist I had) and they can happily go off on their own do a bit of something.. which is what I want them to do, not have them stick next to Aura of Glory and have all 3 of my bully units be right next to each other.


So yeah, all in all they're still fine they just don't serve the purpose I intended them to server anymore, at least not as easily. 

[Popisdead]

On 1/3/2020 at 3:08 PM, Aelfric said:

30 SotW plus Nomad Prince is 600

 (sorry to be pedantic  )

ha!