Tempest Eye Discussion

[SwampHeart]

6 hours ago, Sethiris said:

Something that survives 30 shots from Sisters of the Watch isn't really chaff, is it? 😜

Then again, is there really a precedent stating that they have to activate their abilities at the exact same time? As long as it's still finishing its charge move, it should be able to shoot at the first unit, right? Sequencing isn't really a detailed part of the rules. 🙄

Its not a matter of sequencing, you can't use the Sisters defensive volley ability if there is an enemy unit within 3" of the unit. So if one unit survives and makes the charge you're automatically disqualified from using it again. 

[Filius]

Hi everyone,

the Cities of Sigmar Battletome really woke my duardinish Heart and I want to try an Duardin only Army as asap as possible, so my tiny plan for a 1000 Points List looks like this

• City: Tempest's Eye
• 2 x Warden King (like the Buffs) and one of them is General of Course
• 2 x Rune Lord (like the Antimagic)
• 10 x Longbeard with Great Axes
• 10 x Longbeards with Shields
• 10 x Ironbreakers
• 10 x Hammeres
• 10 x Irondrakes
• = 1040 Points total

That way, I have one of every type of infantry to learn how to play them, and the Longbeards twice, which will hopefully help me against the Sylvaneth with Endless Spells I'll be facing most of the time.

And Tempest's Eye will hopefully fix some of my missing agility.

From there on I can extend any Unit, or even add Kharadrons or Fyreslayers (certainly want to bring a Magmadroth some day!).

I assume that it's not the most competitive way to start, but we'll be playing for fun most of the time anyways, and so … I just want to make sure that the List is not total nonesense. Any feedback is most welcome!

 

[Tidings]

Hey guys, hoping in here just to hear your thoughts on something. I played a game as Tempest Eye using 30 Executioners buffed up, running and charging from Sorcerers, some Demigryph Knights, Phoenix, Wild Riders, a Hurricanum and Darkshards to back everything up, etc. I did NOT have Cogs, and I tried to make it across the table in turn one. Long story short, Phoenix and Demis made it into combat but Executioners fell short. Opponent then got two turns in a row and wiped out 1200 points of my army. It was a slaughter haha. 

So my question, are people generally going less for an alpha/charge list and instead doing gunlines? It really seems Tempest Eye is meant for one or the other. I think I'd try a more gunline approach next time and just think of the +1 to save first round as insurance against enemy alpha armies.  Hoping to hear your thoughts!

[dekay]

33 minutes ago, Tidings said:

I did NOT have Cogs, and I tried to make it across the table in turn one. Long story short, Phoenix and Demis made it into combat but Executioners fell short.

Wildform would serve you much better than Cogs, extra 2 + 2 for run and charge almost guarantee you'll succeed. Did you have the re-roll charge warlord trait? If you succeeded with that charge, the battle would probably go entirely differently ; )

[Tidings]

1 minute ago, dekay said:

Wildform would serve you much better than Cogs, extra 2 + 2 for run and charge almost guarantee you'll succeed. Did you have the re-roll charge warlord trait? If you succeeded with that charge, the battle would probably go entirely differently ; )

I did have Wildform but missed the spell haha. Rolled a 4, including my +1 to cast. Generally, it was an example of everything going wrong back to back. But I feel like it highlighted a problem with the list. I was completely screwed as soon as I couldn't get that charge, and I don't really want to dump more points in redundancy to insure I get it. 

I wasn't using that trait and I think I should have! I had Hawk-eyed General but since I was trying to commit to charges, I should have just gone all the way for sure. Good call

[Sethiris]

17 hours ago, SwampHeart said:

Its not a matter of sequencing, you can't use the Sisters defensive volley ability if there is an enemy unit within 3" of the unit. So if one unit survives and makes the charge you're automatically disqualified from using it again. 

Actually, it states that there cannot be another unit within 3", as the ability triggers after the charge move is completed. In other words, would there be restrictions to shooting with one unit first, then the second if the first volley doesn't kill the charging unit?

[SwampHeart]

In my eternal quest to never get enough practice with a single list I gave Tempest Eye a shot last night. I played against DoK (Khailebron rather than Hagg Narr) in Starstrike - no realm rules, terrain was fairly uneventful (one mystic piece that might have mattered but no objectives landed near it). 

I ran:
 

Spoiler

Aether Khemist - General (Hawk Eyed), Seerstone Amulet
Battle Mage - Adjutant, Pha's Protection, Strike of Eagles
Sorceress - Celestial Visions
Battle Mage on Celestial Hurricanum - Aura of Glory
30x Freeguild Handgunners
30x Phoenix Guard
30x Arkanaut Company - 9x Skyhooks
10x Dark Spears - Honored Retinue
10x Shadow Warriors
10x Shadow Warriors

Overall I was very pleased with the way the list played out - my opponent hit me hard with a Khailebron teleport paired with a Mirror Dance'd Morathi but I deployed well enough to prevent her from getting into my company. Some other highlights were removing a Cauldron turn one with the Skyhooks, the damage output of +1 to hit, +1 attack Phoenix Guard, and the ability to really change my opponents entire play because of the TE move bonus. He would likely have taken the 2nd turn to play for the early double but the M7 + D6+ 1 from the company that can still shoot forced him to take the first turn and he actually pulled his sisters back from the line to stop me from decimating them with Handgunners. 

This was kind of a lark list for me (mostly a chance to use some of my favorite models in the game - Arkanaut Company) but I was really surprised and pretty excited about the prospect of this list. 

[SwampHeart]

3 minutes ago, Sethiris said:

Actually, it states that there cannot be another unit within 3", as the ability triggers after the charge move is completed. In other words, would there be restrictions to shooting with one unit first, then the second if the first volley doesn't kill the charging unit?

Not sure - I'd play it as having to declare one or both at the same time but that's a personal interpretation not backed by RAW at all. My main point here is that if the charging unit survives the first volley at best you might be able to kill it with the 2nd volley (depending on how you played the interaction with the timing) at worst you've lost the 2nd volley all together. Its a solid tactic but it relies on the first volley killing the charging unit so the 2nd volley gets access to a 2nd target - even if you end up killing the first charger by going 1st volley, 2nd volley any further charges are now safe from any return fire. Also watch out for 6" pile ins. 

[Tidings]

@SwampHeart nice, last game I played was Tempest Eye against DoK and I got stomped so hard. Tried to stack buffs on 30 Executioners and turn 1 charge across the table. Failed my charge. He double turned and wiped out most of my army before I got to go again. Really turned me off to playing so aggressively lol

Edited November 6, 2019 by Tidings

[zilberfrid]

On 11/4/2019 at 12:00 AM, Gwendar said:

Had my first game with my Pistolier list today.. won't do a full report as I usually do since I was a bit everywhere and haven't played in awhile:

  Hide contents

Allegiance: Cities of Sigmar
- City: Tempest's Eye
Mortal Realm: Aqshy

Leaders
Freeguild General on Griffon (320)
- General
- Shield & Runesword
- Trait: Hawk-eyed
- Artefact: Ignax's Scales
Celestial Hurricanum With Celestial Battlemage (280)
- Artefact: Seerstone Amulet
- Spell: Lore of Eagles - Aura of Glory (Tempest's Eye Wizard)
Anointed (100)
Knight-Azyros (100)

Battleline
10 x Freeguild Pistoliers (200)
10 x Freeguild Pistoliers (200)
5 x Freeguild Pistoliers (100)
5 x Freeguild Pistoliers (100)

Units
30 x Phoenix Guard (420)

Battalions
Aetherguard Windrunners (120)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Emerald Lifeswarm (50)

Total: 1990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 124
 

We did Relocation Orb and I played against a very shooting heavy Mawtribes list (2 Ironblasters, 12 or so Leadbelchers) but overall it was a win for CoS.

I will definitely say that I made a good amount of mistakes, largely in not keeping within aura range of Hawk-eyed or the Hurricanum which really hurt the shooting output... oh and I for some reason gave myself T1 and I really don't know why; the +1 saves would've mitigated his shooting anyway and I would've been in range to put out a lot more damage. Not to mention that deployment with this many large Cav bases on this particular battleplan proved challenging with the zones being so tight.

I think it's too early to make any changes and I would say this was a good matchup.. we both got a double turn and it was over at the start of 4 with him only having a Tyrant, Irongut and a few Leadblechers left while I still had ~15 PG and 8 Pistoliers with the Hurricanum. It definitely helped that the objectives stayed in the middle or on my side of the board, but the game was pretty close throughout I would say. Some day I may explore my Dark Elf version of it again, but I think I'll stick with this setup for now and see how it goes. With OBR out I'm a bit strapped on buying anymore CoS models 😉

Anyway, I'll probably be playing these guys and OBR for a good while and take a small break from my Skaven so I'll be sure to post up here whenever I do a full batrep for those interested in reading.

Thanks!

This is actually somewhat close to what I want in a list, so it's nice to read.

[Aelfric]

5 hours ago, SwampHeart said:

Not sure - I'd play it as having to declare one or both at the same time but that's a personal interpretation not backed by RAW at all. My main point here is that if the charging unit survives the first volley at best you might be able to kill it with the 2nd volley (depending on how you played the interaction with the timing) at worst you've lost the 2nd volley all together. Its a solid tactic but it relies on the first volley killing the charging unit so the 2nd volley gets access to a 2nd target - even if you end up killing the first charger by going 1st volley, 2nd volley any further charges are now safe from any return fire. Also watch out for 6" pile ins. 

I'm planning 20 SotW with 20 Handgunners in front.  As far as I can see from the wording of the rules, if an enemy unit charges and the Handgunners don't finish it off, then the Sisters are at liberty to stand and shoot as well - "stand and shoot" cannot take place only if there is more than one enemy unit within 3".  There is no need to declare the second until the result of the first has been determined.

It will at least mean your opponent will have to make a choice as to a) charge or not and b) what to charge with;  anything small will likely not make it in and anything larger means a greater commitment of forces in order to whether the storm.

Now I only have to build and paint 20 Handgunners.

[SwampHeart]

52 minutes ago, Tidings said:

@SwampHeart nice, last game I played was Tempest Eye against DoK and I got stomped so hard. Tried to stack buffs on 30 Executioners and turn 1 charge across the table. Failed my charge. He double turned and wiped out most of my army before I got to go again. Really turned me off to playing so aggressively lol

Yeah against DoK you can't really try to out agro them, they're faster and usually lower drop so they're going to control the tempo. You've got to make them make tough choices and take away their first play to be able to win out. 

[Gwendar]

5 hours ago, zilberfrid said:

Thanks!

This is actually somewhat close to what I want in a list, so it's nice to read.

I'm very used to playing Skaven, so playing something this fast and forgetting to pre-measure auras and deploying completely differently just isn't something I'm used to yet. I may get another game or two in before the end of the month when we have our local meetup so I'll likely post everything else from here on out in my batrep blog. I'll be sure to post here anytime I write one up in case anyone wants to read through and see my mediocre phone pictures.

I mostly do them for myself to go through my past games and see what I did right\wrong... but definitely like it if people enjoy them.

[Karazla]

Is the big kharadron boat any good for us? Just as artillery and blocking

[Gwendar]

Played 2 more games against Slaanesh yesterday.. not a triple keeper, just a Shalaxi, KoS, Epitome, Syll'esske, Masque and Chariot w/ 3x5 Hellstriders. The first didn't go to well which I kind of expected... I deployed far enough back and only sent my PG and 2x5 Pistoliers to grab 5 points (Shifting Objectives) but he promptly moved up, murdered the Pistoliers and then got the double so I conceded; I knew full well that all that would've massacred the Pistolier units and that would be it.

For the second game, I adjusted deployment a bit and my opponent decided to go first which, of course played out a lot better for me. 10 Pistoliers + Shemtek managed to kill Shalaxi and I got the KoS about halfway, but he was on a piece of terrain that made it pretty much impossible to get my PG in. He had about 5 CP to make the KoS and Masque fight twice so with pretty much all but 1 of my Pistolier units fighting last... he killed 10 of them and the Griffon who continues to hit like a wet noodle. I got the double this time and he conceded, but I definitely believe he still would've won in the long run having a lot of Depravity with 5 Heroes still on the board and 1/3 of my hitting power having been lost.

All in all... yeah this is a weird matchup and it was hard for me to figure out. Both armies are fast and really want to go 2nd and get a double to make the most of the alpha, so when they outdrop you it's pretty difficult to do anything, especially with their summoning power vs your fragility. I think I'll start running 3x10 Pistoliers and see how that goes. Realistically you're only ever going to be getting 1, maybe 2 of the Pistolier units in buff range so the 3rd can be used to hit weaker flanks. I'll probably bring this to our monthly meetup in a couple weeks so I'll have some proper batreps with that. 

Side note, I think once I get these guys and my OBR painted up, I may invest in a drawf heavy army and see how that goes over this cav list. I would definitely have more resiliency and shooting power will be on par (if not better) and much better CC.. at least with the idea that I have in mind.

[Gypsy_Pistolero]

Is there a consensus on pistoliers vs out riders?

 

Initially I thought pistoliers for the battalion because rule of cool but heard outriders out class them

[dekay]

35 minutes ago, Gypsy_Pistolero said:

Is there a consensus on pistoliers vs out riders?

They're fundamentally different units, and both have their uses. It depends what you want to achieve.

Pistoliers, fast as they are, are a midgame/counterstrike unit. It's impossible to use them for alpha strike without drastically reducing their performance. Why?

12+3 move, 9 range. 24 together. In almost all battleplans, you start more than 24 from enemy units, so you can't just move and shoot with them. But wait, you might ask, what about Tempest's Eye command ability? You can add run move to that! Yes you can. You can move, run and shoot with your pistoliers, hitting something in the first turn. However! No charge after running - so you can't double your shots, halving your damage output before even taking loss of melee attacks into account.

Well we also have charge bonuses and re-rolls, it's reasonable to expect that properly supported pistoliers will be able to move, charge and attack turn 1. However! Whatever you do, they'll be out of range in the shooting phase, again making it impossible to shoot twice... 

But if you let your opponent come closer.. they shine. Their damage output if allowed to shoot twice and prooperly buffed is pretty insane.  And whatever tries to tie tem up, they can just retreat and double shoot again - battalion skill is really handy here.

Outriders on the other hand, are initially all about threat range. Doesn't matter how far the enemy is, outriders can probably shoot it anyway with move + run + 16 range guns. And with buffs (mind you, they *need* to hit buffs to function properly.) they hit hard. And once they are at midfield, parked in proper spot, they start hitting even harder when stationary. So basically you move, shoot and leave enemy no choice but to try to remove them - alternative would be getting shot even harder next turn. 

So it mostly depends on what you want your cavalry to do. If it's first turn alpha strike, Outriders. If it's countercharge later in game - pistoliers. And guess what? Those two seem to compliment each other quite well. Once Outriders are midfield, whatever charges them is now within range of pistolier counter charge. So, to quote the classic, 'why not both?' ; )

Fun thing is, there *is* a unit that's in direct competition to Outriders, but it's not Pistoliers. It's Dark Riders. Similar effective range, very similar damage on the move, worse damage when stationary offset with better armour and melee damage.

[zilberfrid]

55 minutes ago, Gypsy_Pistolero said:

Is there a consensus on pistoliers vs out riders?

Initially I thought pistoliers for the battalion because rule of cool but heard outriders out class them

I think pistoleers deal more damage, and outriders live longer. I think I prefer pistoleers.

Edit, way better answer above.

Edited November 11, 2019 by zilberfrid

[Gypsy_Pistolero]

Thanks for the write up, suppose I'll wait and see how my list plays at 1k and see which would fit best 

[Gwendar]

7 hours ago, dekay said:

It's impossible to use them for alpha strike without drastically reducing their performance.

I don't know if I would go that far. Like you said if they come closer, IE you go second (assuming they actually move close enough, pre-measuring obviously can counter that) then you can punish. I play competitively so that isn't always the case of course; it's just another list that favors certain matchups over others.

I would say I've been considering a big Dark Rider unit, but I think they perform better in Living City, though not by a ton. I think I'm pretty dead set on my upcoming dwarf list though... as nice as the cav list is, it really does not go well if you're made to go 1st, which.. I guess takes me back to your point and I agree in the end 😉

[Gypsy_Pistolero]

So with the info from above how does this look for a list? I play relatively casual, never competitive but some lists can get quite strong like slaanesh 😂 not played them yet

 

Allegiance: Cities of Sigmar
- City: Tempest's Eye

Leaders
Cogsmith (60)
- Artefact: Seerstone Amulet
Freeguild General on Griffon (320)
- Shield & Greathammer
Runelord (90)
- General
- Trait: Hawk-eyed
Sorceress (90)
- Spell: Lore of Eagles - Strike of Eagles (Tempest's Eye Wizard)
Celestial Hurricanum With Celestial Battlemage (280)
- Artefact: Patrician's Helm
- Spell: Lore of Eagles - Aura of Glory (Tempest's Eye Wizard)

Battleline
20 x Darkshards (200)
20 x Irondrakes (300)
5 x Freeguild Pistoliers (100)
5 x Freeguild Pistoliers (100)
5 x Freeguild Pistoliers (100)

War Machines
Helblaster Volley Gun (120)
Helblaster Volley Gun (120)

Battalions
Aetherguard Windrunners (120)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 123
 

Tried to spread out the importance of each character because I play against kharadron alot and don't want to be hero sniped

[dekay]

@Gypsy_Pistolero

You don't seem to have many good targets for aura of glory, wouldn't celestial visions offer more here? I'm not sure if giving those irondrake and darkshard units +1 A will help them much wien it comes to close combat, and pistoliers do most of their melee damage with guns anyway. Also, but this is just personal preference - I prefer helstorms to hellblasters. Longer range and no tendency to explode, while with concentrated fire and cogsmith they are still pretty accurate, but it's your choice here, plus:

Looking at ranges, I assume you'd prefer going second to get enemy a bit closer to you? You don't do much in the opening turn if enemy outdeploys you and forces you to go first. However, with armour bonus you can probably afford it ; ). If you're going first, don't hesitate to use those darkshards as screen to soak up first charges - everything else is a valuable target. With speed bonus you can comfortably position yourself to recieve charges in least painful way. Just make sure to keep pistoliers and griffon alive and safe from alpha strikes and it should all work out.

You may not be able to threaten enemy lines in the first turn, but sure as hell you can threaten the objectives and remove anything they'll park on them.

Interesting take, in general, it might work.

[Gypsy_Pistolero]

Thanks for the feedback, it's very helpful I'm quite inexperienced with aos especially with positioning so will definitely take your advice. 

 

The aura of glory to be honest was just incase really, figured I'd be using warscroll spells more but will change it for the cp spell

 

Volley gun over rockets is mainly just because I prefer the model lol but also cheaper and can still fire if enemies are close 

[dekay]

Arright, I have another subject for consideration:

Large unit of Javelin Prosecutors as, more or less, alternative to Outriders. They have similar range, more mobility, better armour and, with full buffs, a bit smaller damage output than mobile outriders, albeit less swingy. They are also 40 points cheaper for full unit (but, with 12 vs 20, they have significantly fewer wounds)

Outriders gain large damage advantage when static, so this must by taken into account too.  On the other hand, Prosecutors are less reliant on buffs and get ahead when they're removed (which, with all possibilities of hero sniping, has to be planned for)

Has anyone else thought of using  those?

 

 

[SwampHeart]

3 hours ago, dekay said:

Arright, I have another subject for consideration:

Large unit of Javelin Prosecutors as, more or less, alternative to Outriders. They have similar range, more mobility, better armour and, with full buffs, a bit smaller damage output than mobile outriders, albeit less swingy. They are also 40 points cheaper for full unit (but, with 12 vs 20, they have significantly fewer wounds)

Outriders gain large damage advantage when static, so this must by taken into account too.  On the other hand, Prosecutors are less reliant on buffs and get ahead when they're removed (which, with all possibilities of hero sniping, has to be planned for)

Has anyone else thought of using  those?

Prosecutors without the ability to deepstrike in to take advantage of their charge rule and target choices don't seem worth it to me. They're not battle line, and are cheaper but at the cost of wounds (for minimum or maximum units). They don't see a lot of play in SCE and I don't think they really bring anything to the table that we don't have better access to in CoS. That said they're probably close enough in efficacy that if you wanted to use them for fluff reasons over Outriders you wouldn't feel bad for doing so. 

Edited November 18, 2019 by SwampHeart