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AoS 2 Cities of Sigmar Discussion: Hallowheart


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12 minutes ago, Mandzak-Miniatures said:

Has anyone investigated if Stormsire’s Cursbreakers have any potential?

essentially another wizard hero group with extra spell or u bind?

I had been thinking about it, but am unsure, their warscroll states they only know that useless spell.

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11 hours ago, decker_cky said:

Very unlikely that 30 bestigors can all strike in a single combat given their base size.

This is also correct but it is worth looking at the 'vacuum math' from time to time to give you a gauge of where a unit sits. To my knowledge a unit of 30 HoS Bestigors is one of the most offensively potent units in the game when swinging at full strength. Even if they only get 15-20 in they're still an absolute maul of a unit.
 

9 hours ago, Aipaca said:

I'm personally super interested in a unit of 40 flagellants with Warding Brand cast on them. Charge them up the board, they deal mortals when they die, mortals when they run away, are decent on the charge (especially with Ignite Weapons on them, taking the mto 4+/2+/-/1), and take up plenty of board real estate, all for the low low price of 280 points. A couple of those units sent in one after the other will wreak havoc (although they are shut down pretty hard by shooting).

The simple math on them says they'll do half as many MWs as are in the unit (based on the 4+ roll for both abilities). I think they're a really interesting option for breaking open screens early. Go with Soul Scream Bridge and Cogs, get Warding Brand up on them and then roll into say a clan rat screen, pop them and then likely deal with about half of the inevitable plague monk screen behind them. 

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12 hours ago, stus67 said:

I'm just trying to figure out where to fit greatswords in a hallowheart list. They're some of my favorite models so I don't want to ditch them.

They are another good killy hammer unit that works well if you have a freeguild character as your general, which is the only tough thing about them specifically in hollow heart as there are no free guild hero wizards. That said if you like them it's not a tough stretch to get them in.  You need some melee threat in AoS they are the most effcients forces in the game. 

 

 

12 hours ago, Aipaca said:

'm personally super interested in a unit of 40 flagellants with Warding Brand cast on them

They'd work out decently, but as @SwampHeart illuded too you'd need alittle more work than other units to get them into combat quickly. The major issue i see is they don't have an in unit +1 to charge. I think if they had that they'd be an auto take in my eyes. Without it, if they have wild form it's a 7" charge after you teleport them using a bridge. Meaning you tart burning CP to get them to charge that 7". That isn't terrible though. 

From there i'd bring quicksilver swords. You can throw those at your flagellents (which is very thematic) to get some kills on them to boost up thier attack numbers before you throw them into combat.  

I guess the other issue is it might be hard or not even possible to set the flagelents up as both a screen, but also have them in a good position to take the bridge. 

 

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40 minutes ago, Frowny said:

I'm going for ironbreakers, longbeards and maybe some hammerers. A bit sacriligeous but still. Ive seen many people floating pheonix guard as well.

I don't think you can really go wrong though... Lots of good choices.

The issue is that if a lot of units are gonna clear your expensive screen in a turn, then a cheap screen is much better. That’s why the math of Phoenix guard is interesting. If you can keep them alive and heal them, they can tarpit an enemy for multiple turns. I don’t think ironbreakers survive beastigors or witch elves

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I don't play a super competitive crowed, so that's one thing.

Also, I did the math a bit ago and against rend 0 like witch elves, ironbreakers and longbeards are both similar for their cost in survivability to pheonix guard, and pull ahead with rr1s (which is easy in hallowheart). Freeguild guard with shields re also just as sturdy although obviously less killy.

Plus the few games I've played against those things, they don't always make their 1st turn charge. And even if they do you can sometimes use a screen to absorb it.  

Put 10 of something cheap in front. Then a bigger sturdier block 4 inches back. Even with the 2nd pile in they can't get to it, leaving you free to punch back harder on your turn or magic them up. Even just throwing a single random gyrocopter or chariot right up next to deamonettes or bestigorson t1 makes it a lot harder to get to you. They either lose a lot of movement going around or spend a turn killing it. Or shadowwalkers popping up at 9 inches, making a 15 inch wall. Or pallisades.

I think regardless of what you pick, trying to tank that kind of firepower is the wrong strategy. But this is all theory crafting. Ill be Intrigued to see how it plays out

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I also generally don’t like 4 inches of movement on my front line. You are ceding a lot of ground over several turns, and your magic is really an 18 inch thing outside a handful of spells. 

 

I mean, my current frontline will be long beards since that is what I own and I don’t want to invest too heavily in cos yet. Always good to see how the meta settles before big purchases

Edited by stratigo
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6 hours ago, stus67 said:

What are people thinking about for battleline? Freeguild Guard or would stuff like Eternal Guard be good?

I was thinking along the lines of 40 Freeguild Guard with two units of 20 Handgunners behind them in a 2000pt list. Use Shadow Warriors to grab objectives. I'd try to keep deployment to 4-5 drops max though.

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12 hours ago, stus67 said:

What are people thinking about for battleline? Freeguild Guard or would stuff like Eternal Guard be good?

I think the stand out battle line options are

Darkshards
Blackguard
Free guild guard (with shields)
Flaggellents
Phoenix guard

These are in my mind the best. There are other options and there might truely be a better option. However, as i see it these complement hollow heart the best. 

Darkshard have great ranged damage damage. If you take a sorceress in your army, they can be sped up to deal hero killing damage at very long range. The ability to run and shoot syngerizes with wildform should you need the boost in range. Burning head skull/screaming bridge/etc all work well too boost the effectiveness of these units. 

Blackguard have about all the same bonuses as above. Lightning fast and all damage. All that apply to darkshards apply to these guys instead getting run and charge getting lots of milage out of wildform. With the current meta fight are generally taken. These guys match that and move blisteringly fast and charge targets at will. Fans of the emerald life swarm.

Phoenix guard are very similar to black guard, but lose speed for durability.  They are give up a bit of punch. More over they get decent battle shock immunity is baby sat by thier annoited of choice. I think i wouldn't take an on foot annoited for this purpose and just rather have them deploy with thier pheonix for immunity, act as a T1 screen, and then go off to do thier own thing. These along with the phoenixs like the emrald life swarm.

Free guild (with shields)- durable and cheap. They are point for point as tanky as pheonix guard if both are taken in full units. Also they are a little less tanky when you look at ranged damage. These guy make up for the lack of tankiness with numbers. Along with the reflect damage spell this can allow them to be a nice threat that can hold objectives. With thier built in +1 charge and wild form they can take this buff aggressively into combat. 

Flaggellents are all about  that refelct damage spell and suiside bombing. They can do the same objective by numbers thing as friend guild, and become battleline with the battlemage as your leader. 

There are definitly more options from sister of the watch with a nomad prince general. This allows you to bring the soulscream bridge and pop them up into range. They'll count as stationary and long with +1 to hit from enkindle weapon and burning head you can get some good ranged damage.  This takes away from your points in mages and points efficiency, but it might be worth it. Lot's of other options out there, and we've only scratched the surface of this nuts book. 

 

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How’s everyone’s list building going?

I’ll admit I’m at a bit of a disadvantage, not playing I am not sure of synergies. But from looking over the book I do wish there was something added for battleline if taken a specific hero for hallowheart.

I know I’d like to include sisters of the watch. But not sure it’s worth using a leader slot to make them battleline. With that then I would feel like I’d have to take eternal guard and keep the leader close to both units for the bonus. Might be hard to do if the tactic with sisters is to endless spell bridge them around.

I also feel like guard with shields is a pretty safe choice

what is everyone’s thoughts on battle line? 

Also is anyone considering the 1/4 unit for SCE?

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50 minutes ago, Mandzak-Miniatures said:

How’s everyone’s list building going?

I’ll admit I’m at a bit of a disadvantage, not playing I am not sure of synergies. But from looking over the book I do wish there was something added for battleline if taken a specific hero for hallowheart.

I know I’d like to include sisters of the watch. But not sure it’s worth using a leader slot to make them battleline. With that then I would feel like I’d have to take eternal guard and keep the leader close to both units for the bonus. Might be hard to do if the tactic with sisters is to endless spell bridge them around.

I also feel like guard with shields is a pretty safe choice

what is everyone’s thoughts on battle line? 

Also is anyone considering the 1/4 unit for SCE?

The battleline question has been plaguing me also. My kingdom for a Wanderers Wizard Hero. 

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Looking at a Hallowheart list with some Stormcast

For the Endless Spells those are the only ones I have ATM

Whitefire Retinue
Heroes
Battle Mage Aqshy
(Fireball, Warding Brand, Ignite Weapons)

Battlemage Ulgu 
(Miasma, Sear Wounds, Roaming Wildfire

Battlemage Light (Adjutant)
(Guardians of Pha, Warding Brand, Ignite Weapons)

Freed Guild General (General, Warden of the Flame, Algoraxi Prism)
Lord-Arcanum on Gryph Charger (Whitefire Tome)

Battleline 
40 Free Guild Guard (Spears)
30 Handgunners 
10 Freeguild Guard (Halberds, Retinue)

2 x 5 Sisters of the Thorns
(Armor of Thorns, Roaming Wildfire, Elemental Cyclone)
5 Retributors

Endless Spells
Celestial Vortex
Everblaze Comet

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33 minutes ago, GlitzFan said:

i believe we cant choose 2 spells from lore of whitefire as you have done above.
The wording of the hallowheart battle traits says that each wizard can attempt to cast 1 extra spell. but that doesnt mean we can pick one extra spell.

No, you can most definitely pick two spells. read the sentence at the top of hallowheart spell lores- "You can chose or roll for 2 of the following spells for each wizard in..."

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On 10/4/2019 at 2:58 AM, Mandzak-Miniatures said:

Has anyone investigated if Stormsire’s Cursbreakers have any potential?

essentially another wizard hero group with extra spell or u bind?

They are bad inside SCE book and terrible everywhere else, problem is that you are paying 160 points for 2 models that stop being wizards once they lose 3 wounds and cannot take city's spells. You are better of taking a normal incantor and 5 evocators, for only 40 more points

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9 minutes ago, XReN said:

They are bad inside SCE book and terrible everywhere else, problem is that you are paying 160 points for 2 models that stop being wizards once they lose 3 wounds and cannot take city's spells. You are better of taking a normal incantor and 5 evocators, for only 40 more points

The warscroll also specifically states 

Quote

It cannot attempt to cast any spells other than Empower

which is the exact same all evocators have. If you're not using sacrosanct or redeemer, it's just an unbind battery.

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1 hour ago, Sigmartazz said:

Hi everyone. I'm new to AoS m, so after ready through the fluff from the book, and based on the models I bought. I think Hallowheart could be cool. I would like some insight, or tips on my list below. Thanks ahead of time. 

1k.pdf 532.29 kB · 2 downloads

Welcome to the hobby friend.  

Seems neat enough for 1k and a first list. One thing you'll maybe notice quickly is you'll want one big smashy unit in most games. Taking objectives is important in AoS and sitting there slowlying fighting for several turns doesn't really help you score point quickly enough. 

That said if you can find the space make that great sword unit big and smashy like 20 strong. If you like hallow heart you'll also likely want to get some endless spells, but honestly the best bet for new players is to just get some stuff, try it and see what stuff you like playing. Then you can figure out what kind of units you'd want to use more of later. 

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19 hours ago, zilberfrid said:

The warscroll also specifically states 

which is the exact same all evocators have. If you're not using sacrosanct or redeemer, it's just an unbind battery.

5 evocators can self-buff with decent efficiency for only 60 more points, and they are evocators, not just an unbind battery

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10 minutes ago, XReN said:

5 evocators can self-buff with decent efficiency for only 60 more points, and they are evocators, not just an unbind battery

Meh, self buffing is a thing I guess. If I allow Stormcast in my list (I don't like them), it's got to be for a very good reason, them reciting self-help lines isn't good enough of a reason.

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I've been wanting to make an AoS Dark Elf themed army since the start of AoS but never really liked Daughters so Hallowheart is finally my opportunity. The theme of the list obviously wizards but more specifically elf wizards protected by their elite guard. I know that the sheer power isn't as high as if I introduced non elf wizards but I quite like the theme and am excited about painting it up. 

Nomad Prince - 120 - General - Warden of the Flame, Whitefire Tomb, Warding Brand

Sorceress on Dragon - 300 - Ignax Scales, Crystal Aegis, Sear Wounds

Sorceress - 90 - Warding Brand, Ignite Weapons 

Sorceress - 90 - Roaming Wildfire, Elemental Cyclone

Sorceress - 90 - Roaming Wildfire, Sear Wounds

20x Black Guard - 280

20x Black guard - 280

20x Eternal Guard - 260

10x Eternal Guard - 130

5x Sisters of the Thorn - 130 -  Roaming Wildfire, Elemental Cyclone

Whitefire Retinue - 140

Gnashing Jaws - 30

Quicksilver Swords - 30

Burning Head - 30

Total: 2000pts

- The casting is pretty standard Hallowheart, by using the dragon as a battery to make for a crazy good magic phase.

- Ignite Weapons comboed with a sorceress near a black guard unit makes for a really nasty unit. 2" range at 2+/2+ and -1 rend is really spicy.

- Sisters of the Thorn bringing up an immobile eternal guard unit to a 2+ save while guarding an important objective will make for a spectacularly tough anvil. Esp if I add in mystic shield. 

- The combo of having 4 elite combat units, 2 offensive, 2 defensive means the army isn't "all-in" on the magic phase. 

- The Nomad prince makes a fantastic general his passive -1 to hit, cast, unbind, and dispel is wonderful in a meta teeming with KoS and GKoT. I'm also quite fond of his command ability and he is useful behind the lines as an extra wizard that doesn't mind getting a little closer to the fighting. 

- I'm not 100% sure based on the wording, but I'm pretty sure that Ignax Scales can stop wounds caused by the +d6 to cast command ability?

- I'm pretty sure the Nomad Prince cannot be included in the Whitefire Retinue battalion as even though he can cast spells, he does not have the wizard keyword?  I'd love to be wrong though.

I'd be super grateful of any feedback and don't hesitate to let me know of any mistakes I've made as I have no doubt that I've missed or messed up at least something along the way.

 

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