AoS 2 Cities of Sigmar Discussion: Hallowheart

[spenson]

1 hour ago, Kokoshi said:

I did not see anyone include Sisters of the Thorn in their Hallowheart list. For their points they are good objective grabbers with decent attacks and as CITIES OF SIGMAR HALLOWHEART WIZARDS should cast two spells including the Hallowheart domain.

Sisters of the thorn got a huge nerf: their spell can only target wanderers.

[Dr Ben]

2 hours ago, Kokoshi said:

I did not see anyone include Sisters of the Thorn in their Hallowheart list. For their points they are good objective grabbers with decent attacks and as CITIES OF SIGMAR HALLOWHEART WIZARDS should cast two spells including the Hallowheart domain.

 

1 hour ago, spenson said:

Sisters of the thorn got a huge nerf: their spell can only target wanderers.

I think you are both right in a way. Sisters of the thorn will be value in Hallowheart. Only targeting wanderers is no problem if you are using eternal guard as your front line troops in a Hallowheart list. It is a bit limiting otherwise, but you can use them for casting endless spells or mystic shield. 

One of the reasons I don't have them in my list is simply I don't own any sisters or eternal guard and I already have a major painting backlog. That may be the same for others. There are also just lots of other good things you want to fit in the list. 

 

[Kokoshi]

2 hours ago, spenson said:

Sisters of the thorn got a huge nerf: their spell can only target wanderers.

The point is more to get casters to fling/dispell Endless or just raw damage with Hallowheart spell Lore. Otherwise i find the lists quite static and having some cavalry might help to get some board control.

[Peegee]

Hello fellow magic lovers!

Here is my take on an Endless-spam Hallowheart list:

Allegiance: Hallowheart

Leaders

Anointed of Asuryan on Frostheart Phoenix (320)

- General

Luminark of Hysh With White Battlemage (270)

Knight Incantor (140)

Battlemage (90)

Sorceress (90)

 

Battleline

30 x Phoenix Guard (420)

10 x Dreadspears (90)

10 x Dreadspears (90)

 

Battalion

Whitefire Retinue (140)

 

Endless Spells / Terrain

Everblaze Comet (100)

Emerald Lifeswarm (50)

Prismatic Palisade (30)

Purple Sun of Shyish (50)

Soulsnare Shackles (40)

Lauchon the Soulseeker (60)

Suffocating Gravetide (20)

 

Total: 2000 / 2000

 

I haven't figured out the artefacts yet but the spirit is there: a big block of Phoenix Guard with all the world's debuff to hit them and spells to heal them, Wizards that block the field and deal MW with Endless Spells, a Phoenix to bring mobility and erase hordes with the 12" range spell, Luminark for the beam and the 6++ save to make the Guards even more resilient.

Because the foot men are slow, I've put Launchon in the list to send them mid-field asap. 

Incantor is there for auto-dispell that can save a game and the Comet that can severely hurt some lists.

 

Open for suggestions and remarks!

Cheers!

 

[SwampHeart]

1 hour ago, Peegee said:

*Snip*

I like this a lot, going to use some of it as building blocks for my first iteration I think. 

[Charlo]

So i'm thinking of the best way to use channeling CA...

It's either got to be: High wound count Wizard with Ignax Scales, which uses a relic slot... Like a Hurricanum or Mage on Griffin. This also has the bonus of a large base for the aura to reach other wizards.

OR

A Wizard with a decent number of wounds (6 or less) and a retinue of Phoenix Guard who you can pass the wounds onto. Again could combine with Ignax, for essentially 3 rolls to stop it. Lord-Arcanum seems pretty good having 6 wounds, plus with the bonus' to cast you're going to be getting off prime electids a lot for big D6 mortal wound Arcane Bolts. Even rolling a 6 on the channelling is seldom likely to kill them with a 4+ pass in addition to other defenses you may give them. I also like the Arcanum because of his CA to boost endless spells movement range by D6, which make a Purple Sun move 13"-18", which is utterly terrifying and also means your opponent cannot send it back to hurt you easily.

[mmimzie]

4 hours ago, Charlo said:

I also like the Arcanum because of his CA to boost endless spells movement range by D6,

I don't think that CA is worth the CP. 

Appart from that honestly any retinue can work well with 5 to 6 wizards likely you'll have a wizard throwing around seer wounds or the life swarm which is one of the best empowered endless spell  so getting them back up is no problem. From that  lets say you have a 5 wound wizards and do 6 damage, likely you just need to throw 2 or 3 die at trying to block the damage. WIth the healing as long as the wizard lives with one 1 wound you can likely fully heal them easily. 

From there pheonix guard aren't the best targets as i believe they are 160 pts for 10?? That means with a +4 save they are the same as an 80pt unit with 10 models. Flagellents and free guild guard are 80 pts so can do the job just as well. 

I do think with hollowheart endless spells will be a big thing as base line you can ignore the damage on a 5+ and with a spell make that a 4+.

I think that the main concern is to see if battlemages are affected by the restriction of where you are from. I don't think so as that rule specifics strictly malign scorcerys and the artifact there in. 

[Frowny]

Has anybody pondered using hallowheart more for buffing? The +1 to wound spell and the battlemages and sorceress -1 to hit spells could all make for a pretty good death star. A lot of the 3+save dwarves really want a mystic shield too. A hurricanum I think will be a staple of many lists anyways. The mortal wounds on death could go on something else to make it also unappealing.

This isn't a very expensive package, at only a few hundred points, and would still have multiple extra casts to throw out fireballs or whatnot.

Hallowheart is the only city with any plus to cast and any ability to reliably cast it's spells might make it one of the more versatile buffing cities.

[Gwendar]

2 hours ago, mmimzie said:

I think that the main concern is to see if battlemages are affected by the restriction of where you are from. I don't think so as that rule specifics strictly malign scorcerys and the artifact there in. 

Like you said, I don't see that implying that the Battlemages have to be from that given realm; otherwise I wouldn't see much reason when they're just going to have the same Aqshy spell.

1 hour ago, Frowny said:

Has anybody pondered using hallowheart more for buffing? The +1 to wound spell and the battlemages and sorceress -1 to hit spells could all make for a pretty good death star. A lot of the 3+save dwarves really want a mystic shield too. A hurricanum I think will be a staple of many lists anyways. The mortal wounds on death could go on something else to make it also unappealing.

This isn't a very expensive package, at only a few hundred points, and would still have multiple extra casts to throw out fireballs or whatnot.

Hallowheart is the only city with any plus to cast and any ability to reliably cast it's spells might make it one of the more versatile buffing cities.

I absolutely think Phoenix Guard have the best home in Hallowheart. For 160 points you get an all-purpose unit as your math has suggested. Expensive sure, but I think their versatility lends itself perfectly for a list where you want most of your damage coming from spells and they will supplement that damage while also being great anvils and are perfect targets for those buffs. I mean they're even ignoring spells on a 4-5+ which makes them even crazier.

I'm currently looking at a way of fitting in a Hurricanum, Annointed Fire Phoenix, 2 Battlemages and maybe a Sorceress, haven't decided.. along with all that I think an Incantor with comet is a no-brainer, all rounded out with 40-50 Phoenix Guard (a 3rd cheap BL if needed to fill) and the battalion + Endless spells (of which, Spellportal and BW likely being the most important aside from the Comet). Points are tight but I can definitely see it being great. I think the biggest thing is that I really want a retinue, but am not keen on having the mages be the General... anyway, back to the drawing board.

[mmimzie]

47 minutes ago, Gwendar said:

Like you said, I don't see that implying that the Battlemages have to be from that given realm; otherwise I wouldn't see much reason when they're just going to have the same Aqshy spell.

I absolutely think Phoenix Guard have the best home in Hallowheart. For 160 points you get an all-purpose unit as your math has suggested. Expensive sure, but I think their versatility lends itself perfectly for a list where you want most of your damage coming from spells and they will supplement that damage while also being great anvils and are perfect targets for those buffs. I mean they're even ignoring spells on a 4-5+ which makes them even crazier.

I'm currently looking at a way of fitting in a Hurricanum, Annointed Fire Phoenix, 2 Battlemages and maybe a Sorceress, haven't decided.. along with all that I think an Incantor with comet is a no-brainer, all rounded out with 40-50 Phoenix Guard (a 3rd cheap BL if needed to fill) and the battalion + Endless spells (of which, Spellportal and BW likely being the most important aside from the Comet). Points are tight but I can definitely see it being great. I think the biggest thing is that I really want a retinue, but am not keen on having the mages be the General... anyway, back to the drawing board.

I think if you run phoenix guard and phoenixs you're almost required to then take the emerald lifeswarm. The D6 revive will pay for itself with the first roll most of the time. 

As for the knight incantor+ comet. I'm on the fence with that one. We do have the lumincark and the azyr battle mage with roaming fire that can shoot 2 back to back d3 aoe spells. That both bring abit more to the table, heck if you want long range bring a balewind vortex to put the azyr battle mage on to bumb him to a 24" range (+3-4" for the extra range you can get for setting him up closer via the vortex). While the luminark can't be dispeled when shooting it's 30" laser and can repoition 6-10".

Edit: i guess the commet gets alot better if you bring the  command trait that lets you unbind endless spells on with +3. Hmmmm

Edited October 3, 2019 by mmimzie

[spenson]

5 hours ago, mmimzie said:

*Text*

Edit: i guess the commet gets alot better if you bring the  command trait that lets you unbind endless spells on with +3. Hmmmm

I agree with you on almost everything: Phoenix guard that ignore spells on a 5+, can take the MW from the Arcane channeling and have a 4+/4++/6++ look very good.

However I think the 50% chance to get a CP at the beginning of the turn is probably better than +3 to dispell endless spells. Does the Locus of Hysh ability also apply to dispelling endless spells? I'm pretty sure that it doesn't but you never know.

Can someone please confirm that the battlemages only get +1 to casting rolls if you roll their realm at the beginning of the battle?

I think I will at least play the Emerald Lifeswarm and the Umbral Spellportal. Both empowered versions are really nice. Maybe I'll add the Soulsnare Shackles because they can hit an enemy unit deployed more than 24" away.

[Cyric The Mad]

I was thinking to build an army along these lines. Might not be too strong but would certainly be fun. 3 Heroes bombard spells, 1 per spellportal until enemy reaches 18' range and luminarks shoot their 30' along the way. Guard is for moving towards objectives and to hold them. Not sure if swords or halberds yet but probably swords for better save. What do you think? Would it be too weak? Thanks!


1 x Celestial Hurricanum with Celestial Battlemage (280)
1 x Luminark of Hysh with White Battlemage (270)
1 x Luminark of Hysh with White Battlemage (270)

20 x Freeguild Guard (160)
20 x Freeguild Guard (160)
20 x Freeguild Guard (160)

Whitefire Retinue  (140)
Umbral Spellportal (70)

1510

Edited October 3, 2019 by Cyric The Mad

[Gwendar]

9 hours ago, mmimzie said:

I think if you run phoenix guard and phoenixs you're almost required to then take the emerald lifeswarm. The D6 revive will pay for itself with the first roll most of the time. 

As for the knight incantor+ comet. I'm on the fence with that one. We do have the lumincark and the azyr battle mage with roaming fire that can shoot 2 back to back d3 aoe spells. That both bring abit more to the table, heck if you want long range bring a balewind vortex to put the azyr battle mage on to bumb him to a 24" range (+3-4" for the extra range you can get for setting him up closer via the vortex). While the luminark can't be dispeled when shooting it's 30" laser and can repoition 6-10".

Edit: i guess the commet gets alot better if you bring the  command trait that lets you unbind endless spells on with +3. Hmmmm

Yeah, getting potentially 6 of those models back is almost as much a slap in the face as healing Gotrek 6 wounds. I've considered a smaller foot hero to go with the 2nd group, like an Annointed on foot but can't decide if that's worth it.

Anyway, yeah I would say you always take it with that trait so you never have an issue; something could be said for an Arcanum for the empowered Arcane Bolt almost always going off for d6 but I think I would leave that out, personally. I've been in debate on the Luminark vs Hurricanum, but overall I think Hurricanum works out better with the + to cast on top of the Comet\Lightning and Shemtek.

 

4 hours ago, spenson said:

However I think the 50% chance to get a CP at the beginning of the turn is probably better than +3 to dispell endless spells. Does the Locus of Hysh ability also apply to dispelling endless spells? I'm pretty sure that it doesn't but you never know.

Can someone please confirm that the battlemages only get +1 to casting rolls if you roll their realm at the beginning of the battle?

I suppose it depends what you plan to do? Personally I think with the setup I plan to build around that +3 dispell is better than getting a CP, especially when retinues exist. This particular army (especially with potentially BS immune Phoenix Guard running around) won't be too CP heavy aside from getting that + to cast every Hero Phase; and you'll start with an extra anyway. Of course, that depends what the rest of your army is looking like.. you may run things that need CA buffs.

I would say yes for the Battlemages. Your city is from that realm just like when you normally pick this at list-building, but that's different than the battle taking place in that realm.

 

13 minutes ago, Cyric The Mad said:

3 Heroes bombard spells, 1 per spellportal

Keep in mind you can only use the Spellportal once in that phase meaning it can't be used by you until your next hero phase once you cast a single spell through it.

Edited October 3, 2019 by Gwendar

[zilberfrid]

I myself thought that you can get enough + to cast from all types of abilities, but unbinding is a bit rarer. We can't have the opponent casting magic, of course, that's for us. Therefore, Luminarch of Hyish.

Edited October 3, 2019 by zilberfrid

[spenson]

1 hour ago, zilberfrid said:

I myself thought that you can get enoug + to cast from all types of abilities, but unbinding is a bit rarer. We can't have the opponent casting magic, of course, that's for us. Therefore, Luminarch of Hyish.

Joey doesn't share food magic!

Hallowheart wizards can cast an additional spell but they don't get a second unbinding roll. You also don't get an unbinding roll from the Witchfire Tome. I think the Hurrican is probably better when taken alone but the luminard may be better in this army. 

Edited October 3, 2019 by spenson

[SwampHeart]

Played a game yesterday evening using the new book (my FLGS got their copies last night). I ran:
 

Spoiler

-Anointed on Frostheart Phoenix - General (Veteran of the Blazing Crusade), Whitefire Tome (Sear Wounds)
-Luminark of Hysh - Ignax's Scales, Roaming Wildfire, Warding Brand
-Sorceress - Ignite Weapons, Roaming Wildfire
-Battle Wizard - Warding Brand, Crystal Aegis, Pha's Protection
-Battle Wizard - Ignite Weapons, Sear Wounds, Chain Lightning
-Knight Incantor - Elemental Cyclone, Sear Wounds
-30x Phoenix Guard
-10x Handgunners - Longrifle
-10x Darkshards
-3x Gyrocopters
Whitefire Council
-Everblaze Comet
-Emerald Lifeswarm
 

I played Starstrike against a Staunchcast style list (6 Tempestors, Castellant, Arcanum w/Staunch Defender on Gryph, etc.). We don't play using realm rules at my shop. Without going into a full Battle Report - I was really pleased with the list. His army is one I usually have trouble with - the Dracoths are unbelievably stout and I don't usually have enough rend to get through them. However in this game I was able to absorb the Dracoths with the Phoenix Guard unit - max debuffs up and he wasn't able to outpace my replenishment from Lifeswarm and Sear Wounds. I on the other hand was able to deal a lot of early damage to his supporting character cast via the comet, luminark laser, and other spells (which I absolutely overwhelmed him with). 

I was able to take the win by using my Gyros and Phoenix to bully his smaller units and score objectives while I kept the middle line objective (fell at position 8 ) by virtue of superior body count. I'm really excited to continue testing this list and playing some of the other builds that frequent my store. 

[zilberfrid]

13 minutes ago, spenson said:

Joey doesn't share food magic!

Hallowheart wizards can cast an additional spell but they don't get a second unbinding roll. You also don't get an unbinding roll from the Witchfire Tome. I think the Hurrican is probably better when taken alone but the luminard may be better in this army. 

Yeah, that was my thinking, dealing magic is easy, but receiving magic may not be very nice, so getting that unbinding up as much as you can is a good thing.

[SwampHeart]

6 minutes ago, zilberfrid said:

Yeah, that was my thinking, dealing magic is easy, but receiving magic may not be very nice, so getting that unbinding up as much as you can is a good thing.

That's why I run the Luminark over the Hurricanum as well as a Knight Incantor for the scroll. 

[zilberfrid]

3 minutes ago, SwampHeart said:

That's why I run the Luminark over the Hurricanum as well as a Knight Incantor for the scroll. 

I do have a Knight Incantor, even one that's not skewered, but I'd prefer not to run SCE entirely.

[Televiper11]

Add a cheap Runelord to get that extra dispel.

[SwampHeart]

36 minutes ago, zilberfrid said:

I do have a Knight Incantor, even one that's not skewered, but I'd prefer not to run SCE entirely.

Eh, they're a part of the book and lore wise I can totally see a Knight Incantor as a part of a Hallowheart retinue/attache. But I also don't share the seemingly common loathing of SCE in general - I'm happy to be able to bring in a few SCE models that I think look good into the project. 

[zilberfrid]

2 minutes ago, SwampHeart said:

Eh, they're a part of the book and lore wise I can totally see a Knight Incantor as a part of a Hallowheart retinue/attache. But I also don't share the seemingly common loathing of SCE in general - I'm happy to be able to bring in a few SCE models that I think look good into the project. 

Well, I do think the gryph hounds look good, as wel as the gryph-chargers. The Cursebreakers leader is not too bad to use as a Knight Incantor with the shoulderpads torn off, but I really don't like how non-functional they look. If you were to cosplay this, you'd run into all kinds of issues in day to day life, let alone combat.

[SwampHeart]

Just now, zilberfrid said:

Well, I do think the gryph hounds look good, as wel as the gryph-chargers. The Cursebreakers leader is not too bad to use as a Knight Incantor with the shoulderpads torn off, but I really don't like how non-functional they look. If you were to cosplay this, you'd run into all kinds of issues in day to day life, let alone combat.

I mean they're magical supermen - they shoot bolts of lightning from their bows and have the fantasy equivalent of RPG crossbows. I'm not real hung up on if they 'work' or not. I routinely fight an army with a floating magical frog and another with elves that ride eels in a quasi magic sea. So yeah they have huge shoulder pads but they paint up nice because they have lots of clean surfaces.  

[Charlo]

Sounds really promising @SwampHeart! A nice list with a solid mix of stuff; the real power of the cities book!

1 hour ago, Televiper11 said:

Add a cheap Runelord to get that extra dispel.

Probably not a bad idea... However I think that would also necessitate the inclusion of a DISPOSSESED unit to go with him and make use of the prayers. Breakers/ Hammerers seem rather decent for the points too and a nice Anchor. Just a matter of Defence/ Offence.

[Televiper11]

Hammerers are awesome.