Does CoS need new models?

[Overread]

There's a load of fantastic skaven sculpts in metal that have huge character and quality to them - easily able to stand up to the modern designs in terms of sculpt quality. Now what can evolve and vary over time is style. Some armies go through bigger style changes then others.

 

Skaven have mostly remained within the same style more or less over the years. Meanwhile compare the first, second and third generaitons of Tyranids and there are HUGE differences. Here the style changed 3 times over the years quite significantly; furthermore the size also changed. The first edition Hive Tyrants are really quite small, whilst the current generation are far bigger all over. 

We've seen the same in AoS in even more extreme comparing the old Greater Demons to the new models and the vermin lords as well. Going from large to super large models. 

[Moldek]

Personnally the only problem that I have with the empire models is that their old school proportions don’t fit with newer models. Huge hands, shorter overall, etc.

But I love the renaissance aesthetic and I think it perfectly fits AoS. When they release new sculpts I hope they go all in. Extra puffy sleeves, helmets with beaks and more feathers than a Brasilian carnival, flying steam tanks with triple barrelled muskets...

It’s not like warhammer fantasy has been erased and no trace of it should be left. The old world is everywhere, from the lore to the design cues, to the name WARHAMMER age of SIGMAR 😂

otherwise let’s squat gloomspite gits, all of chaos, ogors, half of death... down with the old!

It would be cool to open up that design space though, and my dream scenario is this : a new edition of warcry in a couple years, focusing on explorers from the free cities. Release 6-8 warbands from various cities and realms. A couple of them with the « controversial » Landsknecht aesthetic, and the rest exploring all the possibilities found in the lore. Then all these warbands form the basis of a new range for cities of sigmar. One can dream

[Thiagoma]

It is strange to talk about models considering how many plastics we just lost.

Imagine how much more fun we could have with Hallowheart with the Eldritch council Archmages and Loremasters.

 

CoS has the best range in the whole game, specially if you add KO/Sylvaneth/SCE into the mix we can pull + allies. I dont think the book has any role not covered.

 

More than models we need directions. How will the army evolve from here? Is it a Hit in sales?  Did it take GW by surprise? Do they plan to keep this army going?

 

That said, sure i would love new models.

[dirkdragonslayer]

On 9/29/2019 at 11:05 PM, stratigo said:

Actually all the models made for AoS specifically share sort of the same types of ascetics. They're quite unified. There is a lot of visual continuity between a stormcast warrior, a blood warrior, an ironjow brute, and a fyreslayer vulkite. They all share key visual shorthand. They're all sort of larger than life heroic proportions of bulging muscles and rage. Even namarti thralls are real swole for being elves. And they are all quite ostentatious and a bit over designed and largely more dynamic. Like, it you set up a warhammer fantasy model next to an AoS model, you could tell immediately that AoS is just a different kind of scale. Even the swole dudes of old fantasy, the chaos warriors, are weedy next to AoS models.

Also the posing of the models is very different. Old WHFB models are designed to look good as a block of units, while AoS models are more about each model having some individual character. Each being in a different part of a walk cycle, looking in different directions, maybe waving something in the air. Old Chaos Warriors looked fine marching in a regiment, but look awkward standing on their own. Compared to Blood Warriors who would look like a undisciplined mess in old fantasy regiments, but look much better in the more disorganized squads of AoS. Destruction factions are a bit of an exception to this, because old units like Black Orcs and Savage Orcs were designed to be more disorderly (Because they are Greenskins), and look a bit better in messy groups.

Also this isn't just WHFB, but all GW models, but old ones can feel a bit flat. Compare old Squig Hoppers to the new ones, or old Fanatics to their new counterparts. The new ones feel more 3-Dimensional, with more implied motion and better use of space of the base. I love some of my old metal models like my Grot Shamans and Nasty Skulkers, but their posing is rather flat. Even my plastic Grot Stabbas can look a bit flat, it's just how they were designed back then. New Squig Hoppers on the other hand are in spiraling jumps, bouncing hops, and haphazard falls, with the grot struggling to hold on.

[dirkdragonslayer]

17 hours ago, zilberfrid said:

For me, it's about lacking confidence that my models will be legal in a few years. I move at a rather inconsistent speed, and it could take a few months until I have something ready. GW models are also not the cheapest, and I don't want to spend too much money on fleeting things.

Same. I love traditional Dwarfs/Duardin and I am happy to see the Dispossessed staying around for now. However, I don't want to invest in them if they will disappear in 3-4 years. Especially since I already have two armies that take up my time, Grots and 40k Orks, and I don't want to invest in a third army that's fate is up in the air. Even the CoS book didn't use them in any Battalions. I know all the remaining kits are from 8th edition and are pretty new so they probably won't get dropped anytime soon, but I am still scared.

Personally I really wanted the remaining Dispossessed (Warden King, Ironbreakers, Irondrakes, etc) to be absorbed by the KO, with the Cogsmith and Gyro being the link between the two. Maybe have them be the guard of the KO's ground claims like ports and holds, or be a dual faction book like Orruk Warclans. Being part of the KO would ensure they would stay around, while at the moment we don't know if CoS is just a momentary thing to appease fans like the 40k Indexes, or will be around for good.

[Forrix]

4 hours ago, 123lac said:

Cringe.

Models are as old as their sculpts. 

No need to be dishonest.

I have never known a person to like a model then go "oh, it's how many years old? Nevermind".  

If you're determined to hate this book then keep on hating I guess but try not to be insulting.

[zilberfrid]

6 hours ago, 123lac said:

Cringe.

Models are as old as their sculpts. 

No need to be dishonest.

Greatswords, Luminarch, General on Griffin and Demigryphs have detailing that easily rivals or surpasses new sculpts.

There has not been a magic wand at the start of AoS that improved everything.

[RatOfGod]

1 hour ago, zilberfrid said:

Greatswords, Luminarch, General on Griffin and Demigryphs have detailing that easily rivals or surpasses new sculpts.

Precisely. I do think that it’s the overhaul from WHFB to AoS that is influencing people’s opinions on these sculpts much more than the detail themselves. Have you ever seen anybody in 40k complain that the Valkyrie should be squatted because the kit is a decade old at this point?

[zilberfrid]

20 minutes ago, RatOfGod said:

Precisely. I do think that it’s the overhaul from WHFB to AoS that is influencing people’s opinions on these sculpts much more than the detail themselves. Have you ever seen anybody in 40k complain that the Valkyrie should be squatted because the kit is a decade old at this point?

Yeah, I think there is unwarranted hate from WFB players towards AoS, but certainly also the other way around. I don't get that. We're playing with fantastical plastic figures, and there are a lot of flavours of fantasy.

[Artobans Ghost]

12 hours ago, Moldek said:

otherwise let’s squat gloomspite gits, all of chaos, ogors, half of death... down with the old!

Don’t forget seraphon and skaven

[Cèsar de Quart]

6 hours ago, zilberfrid said:

Yeah, I think there is unwarranted hate from WFB players towards AoS, but certainly also the other way around. I don't get that. We're playing with fantastical plastic figures, and there are a lot of flavours of fantasy.

It's not just plastic figures, though. Years, hours and a lot of money have gone to get our armies just the way you like. Some people may not care because they just play or compete. To me, and I suspect, also to many others, this is as much about playing as it is about building and painting "your dudes".

And yes, I was sore about AoS for a long time. Not the game, mind you, but the setting. Not the quality of the minis, but the design philosophy. And yet, I am surprised to see many newcomers take a look at what, to them, should be another corner of the Age of Sigmar and say "bah, what a load of old nonsense, PASS".

Furthermore, I think that the Greatswords and basic Imperial troopers are fantastic sculpts full of character and dynamism. They had to rank up in formation, so they're a bit too samey in their poses, but doesn't it also give off the sense of regimental discipline you expect from them? The only ones I think may look a bit boring are the handgunners/crossbowmen.

Of course, when it comes to taste, to each their own.

Edited October 2, 2019 by Cèsar de Quart

[Televiper11]

I'm honestly shocked at all the negativity here. Yes, the culling of models was hard, especially some of the newer plastics. But now that I've seen the tome and what they've done with what's left I am excited as hell. More excited than I have ever been about AoS. The majority of the Warscroll re-writes have been buffs or laterals, which is fine. They standardized cavalry charge bonuses, which is big. The various City allegiances are excellent! Very thematic.

Could we have used new models? Yes! So could have LoN and BoC -- the forebears of this Tome. Might we get some someday, I'm betting on it. Would a terrain piece be nice? Sure, but it is not urgent. Get creative with all the great Warcry and Forbidden Power terrain that just came out.

In terms of aesthetics too, I don't get the gripe. Who would be living in Cities, those that were drawn to them after the Realmgate War -- the Dispossessed (they lost their homes), the Wanderers (kicked out of Ghyran), all the humans who suffered under Chaos, etc. It works, it fits the lore (especially if you've been reading Black Library), etc.

I think CoS is gonna be a big hit and last a long time. 

[Thiagoma]

14 hours ago, dirkdragonslayer said:

Also the posing of the models is very different. Old WHFB models are designed to look good as a block of units, while AoS models are more about each model having some individual character. Each being in a different part of a walk cycle, looking in different directions, maybe waving something in the air. Old Chaos Warriors looked fine marching in a regiment, but look awkward standing on their own.

This can go both ways imo. In some armies, i cant see "chaos" into their lines. I like the rank and file for example on my elves, because on the Lord of the Rings they had that amazing coordination and discipline, where in the Namarti (great models, dont get me wrong), i see an uncoordenated mess where everyone is doing their own thing. I think the game got room for both.

[Vomikron]

I would like new models but I think the conversion opportunities of using existing models and making them more AoS-y is much more exciting.  Granted, I’m more of a hobbyist than a gamer.

[Aezeal]

On 9/29/2019 at 10:13 PM, PiotrW said:

Let me apologize beforehand if I end up being controversial...

I looked at Cities Of Sigmar and I immediately realized that this is just not a faction (or group of factions) that I could get myself interested in. Why? The reason is, it just doesn't fit with AoS visually. Not the human side of things, at least.

As we all know, the models that represent normal humans in AoS (as opposed to SCE) are models that were moved into AoS from Warhammer Fantasy Battle. In that particular setting, these models made sense - as the Old World was fashioned after late Middle Ages / early Rennaissance. But in my opinion, the same models completely don't fit with the AoS stylistics and setting. Mortal Realms are a high fantasy setting divorced from WFB's medieval inspirations. Why would humans still wear late Middle Age clothing there, then..?

I really would like for GW to release an Order-aligned human faction that would be more in line with the general feel of AoS...

Hard to say what a not medieval based human's dress in a period with the beginning of industry and lots of magic  would look like though.. why not that way?

[Televiper11]

Lastly, I am beyond happy we didn't get any CoS specific Endless Spells as they wouldn't have made much sense, lore-wise. Why would each City have its own city-spell? I think GW was very creative in just giving us fully empowered, regular Endless Spells instead. There are plenty to choose from and some a very thematically appropriate to the two realms these cities are in.

[Indecisive]

Just looking at humans.

Guy on a griffon, wizards, horse portable doomsday cannon looking thing, an actual damn tank, etc... Sure there are regular dudes with swords but Empire is far from historical and is way more fantasy than you'd think. Fits just fine in the setting I feel, hell, it might just thrive.

New Ironweld contraptions, Greatswords WHU/Warcry warband would be great.
Also, does this thing really strike you as out of place?

Edited October 9, 2019 by Indecisive
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[SentinelGuy]

Forget new models, I'd be happy if we got some of the old warscrolls back for CoS. Cannons, bolt throwers, knights on horses, elven heroes with bows, human and elven heroes on horses or cold ones, warrior priests. All of these feature in the lore so there's absolutely no reason for them to be missing. It strikes me as rather silly that freeguild generals must ride a griffon or walk about on foot, or that dreadlords only ever ride dragons.

[Meraklis]

I strongly believe the CoS were a good opportunity for GW to simply roll all those models into a single battletome.

After all most of these models came out around the time of WFB 8th edition so they are quite recent. I am sure that in the future the CoS will probably get new models. 

Cogfort anyone?

[dekay]

1 hour ago, Meraklis said:

Cogfort anyone?

Yes please. Although I wouldn't mind even if rumoured watchtower return was true, shame we didn't get it.

Also, I think that before any new models, what we REALLY need is repacking CoS line into proper Age of Sigmar boxes and getting them back to stores. Because now, being on order only for most of the line they have no chance of being as popular as other factions... And that, in turn, will hurt sales. Which will make GW less interested in developing the faction.

And as we got some pretty strong rules, I'd say there would be a chance for our old models' sudden renewed popularity if they were laying on the shelves.

[Double Misfire]

Look sharp, new CoS model announced!

Spoiler

 

Spoiler

😭

 

 

[dekay]

2 hours ago, Double Misfire said:

Look sharp, new CoS model announced!

This is needless cruelty ; )

[Red_Shift]

Really a cogfort and an updated knight kit would fit the human and potentially dwarf sides really well. The former dark elves have a pretty full up to date range imo. I would love a freeguild captain model posed like the one on the cover of he cities book, rather than the current plastic one who looks like he is poking something to try to free it from a wedged gutter.

[Arathorn185]

Here is what in my opinion what cities needs: a mounted non-monster knightly hero and a spellcaster one as well. Specifically one with six wounds.  The lack of that datasheet is just notable. While it should be 20-40 points more than a walking one to avoid the “Never not take a winged prince” issue. 

[Myrdin]

There was a baler mounted Sorceress on cold one: 

Spoiler

I was considering getting this one to run her as a an ally with my DoK that I am building (project on hold... CoS has priority  ), Just to get a chance of using this brilliant sculpt. heck I`ve seen a HE paintjob for her as well and the miniatures looks amazing regardless of color scheme.

 

I would like it very much, were the regular human heavy cav to make a return together with a mounted version of the general. 

Also the current on foot model looks lame so something different, like the suggestion of the cover picture being made into one sounds great.

.... And, I would like to see this translated to the other heroes, Like Dreadlord on Cold one and Wanderers Nomad Prince who could get a mount and a ranged weapon option as well. Its kinda pitiful that the only ranged hero we have is the Cogsmith, despite the book including all 3 elf factions. (Yes. I know technically Dreadlord can have the Xbow, but other than Livign city ambush build no one is really gonna use that anyway, so I dont count this one.)