Raffonerd Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 4 hours ago, rockmanko said: Can you put the general aside at the start of a battle? Even if you do I think you will still miss the HERO phase for 1/2 chance CP farming Prince is not only +1 hit for one units but all units within the range +he got an extra skill (the bird)? I prefer Assasin as general for this city. It unlocks SW as Bline. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GM_Monkey Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 1 hour ago, Raffonerd said: I prefer Assasin as general for this city. It unlocks SW as Bline. I think some of the problems I have with this are: - He can be hidden for up to 2 hero phases so no chance of additional CP, plus who is the Adjutant that can keep up with a hidden Assassin. - 5+ save makes him very vulnerable - What Trait will you give him, Ironoak is okay but makes him a 4+ but his mortal wounds are unmodified so don't benefit from the +1 to wound. The other 2 won't work as well as he's gonna be hidden for 2 rounds maybe. But the beauty of Cities of Sigmar is we can all run completely different list which are completely valid, so if you want to do it go for you life. Tells us how it went. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GM_Monkey Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 1 hour ago, adreal said: So I read the princes command ability wrong "You can use this command ability at the start of your shooting phase or at the start of the combat phase. If you do so, pick 1 friendly Hero with this command ability. Until the end of that phase, add 1 to hit rolls for attacks made by friendly Wanderer units while they are wholly within 12" of that Hero. A unit cannot benefit from this command ability more than once per phase." So it's all Wanderer units wholly with 12". Okay if you're all bunched up but not amazing. Good if you've got spare CP and really want a block of 30 sisters of the watch or Wild wood rangers to remove something. Other then that you'll probably need it for inspiring presence because my god to these guys run away fast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raffonerd Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 1 minute ago, GM_Monkey said: "You can use this command ability at the start of your shooting phase or at the start of the combat phase. If you do so, pick 1 friendly Hero with this command ability. Until the end of that phase, add 1 to hit rolls for attacks made by friendly Wanderer units while they are wholly within 12" of that Hero. A unit cannot benefit from this command ability more than once per phase." So it's all Wanderer units wholly with 12". Okay if you're all bunched up but not amazing. Good if you've got spare CP and really want a block of 30 sisters of the watch or Wild wood rangers to remove something. Other then that you'll probably need it for inspiring presence because my god to these guys run away fast. All wanderers, ok. SoT ? wow, 1 damage Eternal goes to hit 2+ by them self. Would be cool with wild riders but you have to reach them. It's good only if you have the battalion. The assassin does more or less the same for 40 points less. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raffonerd Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 (edited) 13 minutes ago, GM_Monkey said: I think some of the problems I have with this are: - He can be hidden for up to 2 hero phases so no chance of additional CP, plus who is the Adjutant that can keep up with a hidden Assassin. - 5+ save makes him very vulnerable - What Trait will you give him, Ironoak is okay but makes him a 4+ but his mortal wounds are unmodified so don't benefit from the +1 to wound. The other 2 won't work as well as he's gonna be hidden for 2 rounds maybe. But the beauty of Cities of Sigmar is we can all run completely different list which are completely valid, so if you want to do it go for you life. Tells us how it went. The thing is that more or less an assasin does the same damage as the prince. Ts is not a problem as long as you have 20 EG or PG that shares wounds with you. Plus SW can appear everywhere. This gives you a better chance of position in the first turn. Cp generation is the same as the one with the prince if you want (and costs 40 less points). Also SoW must be 20+ in order to benefit from the command ability without wasting CPs on a 10 man unit. I'm speaking against my love for wanderers guys. I'm pretty disappointed in how they managed wanderers units in this book. PS: I don't think I will go for this city. It seems to be to weak anyway. Pretty bad for my wanderers but it's as it is. I will go Hallow or nothing (which means other books, like pure stormcast in where i can ally 2 waywatchers or 3 wayfinders + azyros for example). Edited October 17, 2019 by Raffonerd 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GM_Monkey Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 2 minutes ago, Raffonerd said: .... The assassin does more or less the same for 40 points less. No he doesn't. - The Assassin has save 5+ the Nomad Prince has save 3+ massive difference. - The Prince debuffs 1 hero with 16" with -1 to hit, cast and dispell. - He also buffs Sister of the watch, Wild rider, Wildwood rangers, Sister of the Thorn, Eternal Guard and himself (admittedly SotT and eternal guard don't benefit so much from it) Damage output is roughly the same with a average 4 damage for the NP and 2 + 1MW for the assassin. However with IronOak, the spear and a CP the NP is 2+ save 4 attacks hitting on 2+ wounding on 2+ rending on -2 and 2 damage. He's a beast. Like I said the assassin is okay but for me personnally he is not the better general. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raffonerd Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 1 minute ago, GM_Monkey said: No he doesn't. - The Assassin has save 5+ the Nomad Prince has save 3+ massive difference. - The Prince debuffs 1 hero with 16" with -1 to hit, cast and dispell. - He also buffs Sister of the watch, Wild rider, Wildwood rangers, Sister of the Thorn, Eternal Guard and himself (admittedly SotT and eternal guard don't benefit so much from it) Damage output is roughly the same with a average 4 damage for the NP and 2 + 1MW for the assassin. However with IronOak, the spear and a CP the NP is 2+ save 4 attacks hitting on 2+ wounding on 2+ rending on -2 and 2 damage. He's a beast. Like I said the assassin is okay but for me personnally he is not the better general. To buff you need Cps, and you don't have them. Cause here you have battleshock phase also. Ts 2 against 4 for a 5 wound guy it's more or less useless as long you have bodyguards. I mean it's not usefull spend any point for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GM_Monkey Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 Just now, Raffonerd said: .... Ts 2 against 4 for a 5 wound guy it's more or less useless as long you have bodyguards. I mean it's not usefull spend any point for it. yeah 2+ save who needs it, And those debuffs and buffs so expensive for 40 points. I mean you could get half an assassin for that! The bodyguard is on a 4++ as well you know, and you do lose the bodyguard model so a shadow warrior you're losing 11 points a pop. 4 Attacks go though and you've lost more than that precious 40 points you saved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raffonerd Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 (edited) 11 minutes ago, GM_Monkey said: yeah 2+ save who needs it, And those debuffs and buffs so expensive for 40 points. I mean you could get half an assassin for that! The bodyguard is on a 4++ as well you know, and you do lose the bodyguard model so a shadow warrior you're losing 11 points a pop. 4 Attacks go though and you've lost more than that precious 40 points you saved. You wont make SW bodyguards. You have PG or EG for that. Plus, if they hit the assasin you will bless good for the favor. My idea for this city is something like: Base: 30 SoW 3x 10 SW Assassing (Iron, General) Azyros 20 Pg (bodyguards) 2 x 1 Scourge Chariot Cp From here you can go for 1) Durthu , incantor (480) 2) Desolators 6 (-1 Azyros) (600) 3) Dricha, Incantor (460) 4) Alarielle (560) Edited October 17, 2019 by Raffonerd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GM_Monkey Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 14 minutes ago, Raffonerd said: You wont make SW bodyguards. You have PG or EG for that. Plus, if they hit the assasin you will bless good for the favor. ... Yeah lets not hit the 11 point model, lets hit the 13 points or 16 point model (although this does give you another 4+) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockmanko Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 2 hours ago, Raffonerd said: I prefer Assasin as general for this city. It unlocks SW as Bline. just one question, whats the pros of having SW as Bline? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raffonerd Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 8 minutes ago, rockmanko said: just one question, whats the pros of having SW as Bline? Low cost and high efficient unit. Can appear everywhere and shoot pretty well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockmanko Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 Just now, Raffonerd said: Low cost and high efficient unit. Can appear everywhere and shoot pretty well. I can add SW as unit anyway, Using my EG Bline as bodyguard, cant tell the difference 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raffonerd Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 6 minutes ago, rockmanko said: I can add SW as unit anyway, Using my EG Bline as bodyguard, cant tell the difference You can play what you like. I'm just trying to optimize list here. But everyone is free to chose his own level (i.e. Amish, ecc). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockmanko Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 4 minutes ago, Raffonerd said: You can play what you like. I'm just trying to optimize list here. But everyone is free to chose his own level (i.e. Amish, ecc). yea, just I am new and want to clarify any specific adv of Bline choice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yawn Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 I don't think the NP is the best general unless you commit hard to SoTW and buff them with him - at least 20-30 depending on points level. Considering they get their double shooting when arriving by ambush, 41-61 shots hitting on a 2+ is quite nasty. I agree that the assassin w/ shadow warriors BL is better otherwise, though. I think the NP should be 100 pts not 120. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raffonerd Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 1 minute ago, rockmanko said: yea, just I am new and want to clarify any specific adv of Bline choice Good. The thing is: Blines are obligatory and usually they are not very efficient units. So first step is to detect which "tax" units are efficient. This means, usually, understand which elite unit is good and can be taken as bilne. Why this, because normal Blines (generic ones) are worse then elite units, but can be a good choice if your general option is very strong (cheap and effective). Barely speaking strategies are usually 2: 1) Take a general that unlocks effective blines, 2) spend less you can in blines and general. In this canse we are trying to apply the 1) one. Spend less but picking effective stuff which can be synergic with the city rules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raffonerd Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Yawn said: I don't think the NP is the best general unless you commit hard to SoTW and buff them with him - at least 20-30 depending on points level. Considering they get their double shooting when arriving by ambush, 41-61 shots hitting on a 2+ is quite nasty. I agree that the assassin w/ shadow warriors BL is better otherwise, though. I think the NP should be 100 pts not 120. Totally agree. Maybe at 100 can make sense. 80 would be a pick, like before. Remember that abilities are more or less the same as before. Edited October 17, 2019 by Raffonerd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yawn Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 We are blessed with solid defensive infantry, good behemoth choices from sylvaneth/phoenix with innate healing, a good spell lore, great shooting, and plenty of mobility options. Not much to complain about in terms of that. If only our one warscroll battalion didn't suck and our command point generation wasn't so poor😭 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adreal Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 I like having the nomad prince as my general, but I want to play as close to pure wanderers as possible, and I'm taking a second one to outflank with 30 sisters. He could be a little bit cheaper, but hey, atleast we kept him 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raffonerd Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 4 minutes ago, Yawn said: We are blessed with solid defensive infantry, good behemoth choices from sylvaneth/phoenix with innate healing, a good spell lore, great shooting, and plenty of mobility options. Not much to complain about in terms of that. If only our one warscroll battalion didn't suck and our command point generation wasn't so poor😭 Hell yeah. Wanderers seems to be a bit downgraded here. If we had the chance for a free move from the hedge as a command ability would be a lot better. Also, the battalion is very bad . Plus in other cities there are much space for them. Maybe in hallowed only. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raffonerd Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 (edited) 6 minutes ago, adreal said: I like having the nomad prince as my general, but I want to play as close to pure wanderers as possible, and I'm taking a second one to outflank with 30 sisters. He could be a little bit cheaper, but hey, atleast we kept him The big problem here is that you are forced into EG as a bline. Which is not so good now imao. 20 PG is a better option as we have only 1 infantry unit on the field to grab the focal objective. If only wild riders would have been bline with prince..... Edited October 17, 2019 by Raffonerd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adreal Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 Then take Phoenix guard?? I like my blob of 20 eternal guard, but I had them before the book came out, where as if I was building a list now I probably would look towards Phoenix guard. I wish you could take a hero level wild rider/sister of the thorn, but it is what it is Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raffonerd Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 1 hour ago, adreal said: I like my blob of 20 eternal guard, but I had them before the book came out, where as if I was building a list now I probably would look towards Phoenix guard. I see your point. I have 30 EG too. It s very bad to see them in the shelf. But PG are overall more durable against magic and fat guys with MW. Also they can run/charge free (important because now you cannot move with hedges as before). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GM_Monkey Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 Seems today I'm gonna be disagreeing with you a lot. Phoenix guard and Eternal Guard server 2 different roles in the army. PG at 160 point with 2 attacks 3+ 3+ -1 rend 4+ save are the elite infantry role. Tougher version of Wildwood rangers, great swords and Executioners. EG at 130 points are the defensive hold your own objectives unit at 2 attacks 3+ 4+ 0 render 4+ save should be used to camp your objective and get the 1+ save, hit and wound bonus. Give them Armour of Thorns and they become immovable with a 2+ save return MW on 6s. They are the expensive side of the objective holders like Freeguild Guard, longbeards and Dreadspears. Fear of MW on an 4+ save infantry blob is really not something I consider a lot. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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