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AoS 2 - Living City Discussion


AthelLoren

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30 minutes ago, Raffonerd said:

The things is: do you  think that with 30 SoW and 6 desolators in da face, they are going to focus azyros? And even if he dies who cares :)

You can place it inside SoW, so it applies also in the countercharge.

You can also put him as general and give him a retinue.

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1 hour ago, Martsb said:

@GM_MonkeyI'm not in a competitive gaming group so it is not that important... But as a matter of an exercise, how could I reduce the number of drop to have the choice of T1 or not ? 

It's tough, I was really just commented that overtninja was making it sound like there is no disadvantage to splitting the shadow warriors into 2 units, and I was just trying to point out you increase your drops and also you run up the ratio for number of units you can put in reserve which has to be 1 for every one on the table, if you have 2 units of shadow warriors you now have 2 units in reserve.

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4 hours ago, GM_Monkey said:

It's tough, I was really just commented that overtninja was making it sound like there is no disadvantage to splitting the shadow warriors into 2 units, and I was just trying to point out you increase your drops and also you run up the ratio for number of units you can put in reserve which has to be 1 for every one on the table, if you have 2 units of shadow warriors you now have 2 units in reserve.

Personally, I don't think 1st turn is important for a Living City list - giving your opponent the first turn to move some units away from their deployment zone could advantage your 1st turn alpha strike by making more room for your units in their deployment zone. They'd also have to weather your magic and shooting phase, and their knowledge of your plans would cause them to play to counter what they expect your deployment to be - but if they are doing that, they are on the defensive, and are not making proactive moves, which advantages you.

I think, especially with the last few releases, that being out-deployed isn't nearly as harmful as might have been before. If your opponent takes the first turn and surges towards objectives, they've left themselves open to your infiltrating units off the sides of the table in most scenarios. If they hang back entirely, you might as well just shoot them and wait for turn 2 to come in with your melee troops. The main advantage is that you don't have to show your hand until you see all of your opponent's - and you don't need to go for broke on the first turn against anything but the most mobile armies in the game.

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I often have problems against Clan Skryre with their long range Jezzails with -2 rend dishing out mortal wounds. Crazy buffs that for example let a ratling gun in a Stormfiend Group do 2 damage each and let them reroll all hit and wound rolls (once obliterating a whole 10 women squad of Sisters of the Thorn in 1shooting phase....) - problem is: you cant shoot stromfiends to death, because  your opponent will always remove the Ratling Gunner last so you have to chew through a LOT of wounds before getting rid of this scary thing. 
He will also just sacrifice his cheap acolytes at the board edges so I am often unable to charge or shoot anything viable. 
Granted - my losses against the Skaven were always me playing the old Wanderer allegiance - we did not have the Chance to get a game in since the CoS Tome released.
Anyhow: What kind of tricks would you pull out of your sleeves if you would be up against:
-2 Units of 3 Stormfiends with ranged weapons (Mortars  also provide a crucial advantage here by not requiering line of sight)
-a Warp Lightning Cannon sniping heroes
-the best Endless Spell in the Game aka Warp Lightning Vortex
-all these damage Spells from multiple casters with rerolling cast rolls
-2 Jezzails sitting in cover sniping everybody

 

Edited by Aloth_Corfiser
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Hey all, I'm not much of an Order player really, but the idea of the Living City and the visual of a Alliance of Free Folk Lord of the Rings style army really appeals to me.  I would appreciate some help with a list idea before I jump in and grab the book (I have to save up after my Orruk Warclans purchase).

I'd really like to include certain things I already have built or painted, so I'll mark those as (Must Haves). I hope this isn't asking much for some help with these restrictions.  I really just dig the idea of men and dwarves and elves and treekin coming together in defense of their world. I really don't know if any of this is good or right just yet...

 

LEADERS

(Army General) Nomad Prince (must have, already painted)

General on Griffon (may make him resemble a Stormcast hero) (must have)

Battlemage

Arch-Revenant

Runelord

UNITS

Sisters of the Watch (battleline)

Wild Riders (must have, already painted)

Liberators (battleline) (must have)

Kurnoth Hunters (must have, already painted)

Wildwood Rangers or Eternal Guard (battleline) (?)

Ironbreakers or Irondrakes (?)

Shadow Warriors

 

I have at least 200 points left, but I'm not sure if the above is any good, or what I should add. I would want a unit representing each faction, with a hero to lead it.

Thoughts?

 

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8 hours ago, Aloth_Corfiser said:

Anyhow: What kind of tricks would you pull out of your sleeves if you would be up against:

Include something with an auto unbind to deny one essential buff - knight incantor for example - there might be something else but I only know of the knight incantor.

Deepstrike, shoot, move , charge - Living City can pull that off easily with Trait / CA - put pressure on his camping backline

 

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17 hours ago, overtninja said:

Personally, I don't think 1st turn is important for a Living City list - giving your opponent the first turn to move some units away from their deployment zone could advantage your 1st turn alpha strike by making more room for your units in their deployment zone. They'd also have to weather your magic and shooting phase, and their knowledge of your plans would cause them to play to counter what they expect your deployment to be - but if they are doing that, they are on the defensive, and are not making proactive moves, which advantages you.

I think, especially with the last few releases, that being out-deployed isn't nearly as harmful as might have been before. If your opponent takes the first turn and surges towards objectives, they've left themselves open to your infiltrating units off the sides of the table in most scenarios. If they hang back entirely, you might as well just shoot them and wait for turn 2 to come in with your melee troops. The main advantage is that you don't have to show your hand until you see all of your opponent's - and you don't need to go for broke on the first turn against anything but the most mobile armies in the game.

Actually I usually find it the other way around, they will more then likely give you the first turn to try and take the double on you. You having the first turn means you have to make the decision, deploy all your forces and try to take out everything within charge range, or try and wait it out.

But yeah I agree with you, the whole first turn second turn is a lot less important with Living city's deep strike ability.

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I was wondering about something. 

If I understand the rules right. 

I could use the hiddenpaths to drop  this

20  free guild crosbowmen x2 

1 free guild general

1 celestial hurricarum

on someones flank

And then unleash 80 2+2+ shots in their side.  (for on cp of course)

Seems powerfull for 720p

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15 hours ago, Aloth_Corfiser said:

I often have problems against Clan Skryre with their long range Jezzails with -2 rend dishing out mortal wounds. Crazy buffs that for example let a ratling gun in a Stormfiend Group do 2 damage each and let them reroll all hit and wound rolls (once obliterating a whole 10 women squad of Sisters of the Thorn in 1shooting phase....) - problem is: you cant shoot stromfiends to death, because  your opponent will always remove the Ratling Gunner last so you have to chew through a LOT of wounds before getting rid of this scary thing. 
He will also just sacrifice his cheap acolytes at the board edges so I am often unable to charge or shoot anything viable. 
Granted - my losses against the Skaven were always me playing the old Wanderer allegiance - we did not have the Chance to get a game in since the CoS Tome released.
Anyhow: What kind of tricks would you pull out of your sleeves if you would be up against:
-2 Units of 3 Stormfiends with ranged weapons (Mortars  also provide a crucial advantage here by not requiering line of sight)
-a Warp Lightning Cannon sniping heroes
-the best Endless Spell in the Game aka Warp Lightning Vortex
-all these damage Spells from multiple casters with rerolling cast rolls
-2 Jezzails sitting in cover sniping everybody

 

Well Considering that running CoS instead of pure Wanderers opens up tons of options on how to deal with them I`ll throw in some examples, but there are more of them for sure.

1, Shadow Warriors. These guys can pop out anywhere, and with their shooting profile getting better when in cover, if you can get them in there you are looking at 2+/3+/-1/1 shots that can remove jezzails, characters and the warp cannon within a single round of your shooting. Watch the surprised face of you Skaven friend as you do to him, what is he used doing to you. If you really want to add a bit more spice in there, drop a Assassin into that unit for extra spice.

2, Freeguild Pistolers. Very mobile, cheap, 2W fast cav that can dish out surprisingly high amount of shots thanks to their ability that allows them to shoot again when charging. 200pts gives you a fast platform with 20W, with 20 shots x2, which are followed up by another 20 cc attacks.  I`ve seen some people speculating on running a huge block of 40 of them for maximum dakka.

3, The Chariots offer a fast and fairly cheap tarpit. that you can hurl forward at Stormfiends, to buy yourself one turn until you get your killy stuff in range. Oh... and they deal D3 MW on charge each. Great way to start a tarpit on those pesky Stormfiends. The other chariots instead have a nice scary mini balista mounted on them.  And if you run them as singles you can make all of them into Beastmasters, making it hit on 2+.

4, Gyrocopters and Gyrobombers are pretty interesting choice as well, but they dont fit the Wanderers theme.

5, Hydra and Kharybdiss...... yes, drown your skaven opponent in these monsters from the seas. Hydra can heal up nicely, even more so with Living city, and Kharybdiss can reduce Bravery as well as murder things nicely.

6, Dark riders.... if you go with Kharybdiss add in Dark Riders. -2 Bravery is no joke for low Bravery armies like Skaven. Running multiple of the big nom noms, allows you to stack it up even higher. 

 

**Now Its not clear from your comment, whether you have tried the new Warscrolls. Wild riders are my favorite suicide unit from CoS. Good on charge due to the buff to Spear wielding Cav. 5 of them can dish out 20W (thats the maximum potential, in case you manage to hit and wound every single attack). 10 of them can remove units and monsters. 

There are many other options open to you with the CoS book. Not just the units but the Cities themselves. All the cities bring some seriously nice abilities to bear.

I think once you start fiddling around with the "new" stuff thats now suddenly accessible to you, you will be able to get so much more mileage out of your wanderers since there will be other units that can fill up for the weakspots your list might have had up till now. :) 

Edited by Myrdin
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6 hours ago, Zappgrot said:

I was wondering about something. 

If I understand the rules right. 

I could use the hiddenpaths to drop  this

20  free guild crosbowmen x2 

1 free guild general

1 celestial hurricarum

on someones flank

And then unleash 80 2+2+ shots in their side.  (for on cp of course)

Seems powerfull for 720p

Yep you're right here (Wanderers have been able to do this for ages). However things to consider:

-You 40 crossbowmen need to fit into a 6"wide strip at the edge of the board. That takes your range from the enemy down to 17" 7 rows to fit 40 guys in

-You have to be 9" away from the enemy, so a screen unit can mess up any plans to hit that big juicy guy.

-Once you've killed everything within 24" you're stuck out on the edge, (Living City CP helps, a lot with this).

- With 4 drops in the hidden pathways you need 4 drops on the board.

But yeah this is how I run my Sisters of the Watch, until of 30 coming in on the flank, killing everything with 18".

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So I was wondering if I could get some feedback on this list idea

Basic plans are to deploy the wwr and the eternal guard in a block with the general, the battlemage, the sisters of the thorn behind them with the Phoenix covering them all with his aura. Have the wild riders off to the flank

Hidden pathways 30 sisters and a nomad prince to shoot and scoot into the battlefield and the shadow warriors pop up in support or on a objective

1876966872_Screenshot_20191010-120924_WHAoS.jpg.7f1ea9fda4d29273df4c059ccaff4942.jpg1544871625_Screenshot_20191010-120935_WHAoS.jpg.6c2bc5622cde6ad55a85de3ee74ff48e.jpg509067284_Screenshot_20191010-120949_WHAoS.jpg.b8fd3932185c7588a8ea97cbc1c969ed.jpg

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10 hours ago, adreal said:

So I was wondering if I could get some feedback on this list idea

Basic plans are to deploy the wwr and the eternal guard in a block with the general, the battlemage, the sisters of the thorn behind them with the Phoenix covering them all with his aura. Have the wild riders off to the flank

Hidden pathways 30 sisters and a nomad prince to shoot and scoot into the battlefield and the shadow warriors pop up in support or on a objective

1876966872_Screenshot_20191010-120924_WHAoS.jpg.7f1ea9fda4d29273df4c059ccaff4942.jpg1544871625_Screenshot_20191010-120935_WHAoS.jpg.6c2bc5622cde6ad55a85de3ee74ff48e.jpg509067284_Screenshot_20191010-120949_WHAoS.jpg.b8fd3932185c7588a8ea97cbc1c969ed.jpg

Good i think. I'll drop 1 prince, wylwood and maybe 10 SoW for a Dricha.

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So with the living city hidden pathways ability do we need to place a unit on the table before we place a unit in reserve? The wording is a little strange on on this.

So for example I can do this:

1. Shadow warriors in the shadows, 2. Sister of the Watch hidden pathways, 3. Dragon hidden pathways, 4. Eternal guards, on board here, 5. Nomad prince on board here etc

Or do I need to do:

1. Eternal guards, on board here,  2. Shadow warriors in the shadows, 3. Nomad prince on board here, 4. Sister of the Watch hidden pathways,  etc?

 

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Living city ambush works pretty much the same as BoC ambush.

Its a 1 for 1 ratio.  1 unit on board = 1 unit that can be set up in reserves and coming via ambush.

In regards to Shadow Warriors its different, they have no prerequisite for this, but at the same time the dont count towards the "on table" limit either if you choose to reserve them.

If you are deciding your ambush and on table setup, ignore the shadow warriors and deal with everything else first, and then slap them on to reserves after.

The funny/sad thing is that the Living city one is much better then the BoC one. For BoC ambush you have to place the units in reserves on the board at the end of your first turn. 2nd if you have artifact or play a specific Greatfray. For the Living City you have time up till round 4.... thats pretty insane for some late game strats ><

Edited by Myrdin
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22 minutes ago, GM_Monkey said:

Oh I see so the Shadow warriors and Assassin don't count to either reserve or on the count. So I could go:

1. Assassin hidden, 2. Shadow warriors hidden, 3. Eternal guard on the board here, 4. Sister of the watch in reserve etc etc?

I believe so (if anyone knows the answer to this 100% please feel free to correct me).

At least thats how it would make sense to me, as the two abilities that allow you to reserve are just that... two different abilities. One that has a prerequisite of a 1 for 1 unit ratio for its use, the other that does not have any requirements to be used at all.

Example:

On table

Freeguild General

3x10 Freeguild Guard

1x10 Freeguild Gunners

= 5 units on the table

Living City reserves (ability that can be used only with Living City)

1x Nomad Prince

2x10 Sisters of the Watch

2x5 Wild Riders

=5 units in reserves as per the Living City special rule

Non Living City ability reserves (universal abilities that allow for reserve, with any other City)

1x Assassin

2x10 Shadow Warriors.

 

Of course no one is stopping you to put Shadow Warriors and the Assassin in the reserve and bring them on the table via the Living City ambush. But you will have to not only state that before the game, but also accommodate for them with additional 3 extra units put on the table. Honestly their own ambush is much better then the Living City one, so there is very little reason for you to do it that way, but there is the option to do so. Just keep in mind that if you should choose to do so you need to make room for this in the list, and also let your opponent know, so they are not confused when you use them in that way instead of their own way they tend to come on the table, should your opponent be used to that.

Edited by Myrdin
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Did you guys considered bringing Aetherwings ? They're 50 points for 3, if you put two 50 points units on the table, you've got 100 points more for your ambushing ones + since they're mvt 12", you could easily go grab an objective somewhere on your first turn if your opponent wants to play it smart and see what you're going to do.

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1 hour ago, Maturin said:

Did you guys considered bringing Aetherwings ? They're 50 points for 3, if you put two 50 points units on the table, you've got 100 points more for your ambushing ones + since they're mvt 12", you could easily go grab an objective somewhere on your first turn if your opponent wants to play it smart and see what you're going to do.

Can you get Aetherwings without buying stormcasts?

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1 minute ago, GM_Monkey said:

Can you get Aetherwings without buying stormcasts?

Maybe on Ebay ? or your local second hand website ? Maybe you could ask in the SCE sub forum if anyone has spare aetherwings for sale. When you play 9 Longstrikes you usually only bring 6 aetherwing (but you own9) s, so who knows :)

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