AoS 2 - Living City Discussion

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

20 minutes ago, Myrdin said:

Been out of the game for a while (half a year before of 2.0 ended) and have been gettin ready to get back into it lately.

So how are you guys feeling about CoS in the current climate? Have some things become better or worse ? From what I saw the shift to 3.0 and how units work and such has not been as catastrophic as for some other factions, though it did invalidate some battlescroll rules for units that relly on huge numbers for them to be active.
I`ve already checked the price changes and seems most of our stuff might`ve gotten more expensive, at least at first glance.

Looks like the CoS warmachines are still poop. Hoped those get massive drop in points considering how bad they are. I heard our infantry got hit hard since they depend on big numbers, but msu units like Pistolers and such got better. Not sure about if its true or not.

 

Cities is doing fine and will probably always be at least OK because of how large our pool of warscrolls is. Especially considering we still get the good coalition rules where other armies' units benefit from our allegiance abilities. There will probably always be a Cities build that is at least decent, but of course it doesn't really help you that running a bunch of Stormcast and Sylvaneth in Living Cities is good if your army is Freeguild and Ironweld Arsenal troops in Tempest's Eye.

Cities has a few genuinely good native units. Phoenix Guard and Annointed on Frostheart, Battlemage and Hurricanum with Battlemage, Irondrakes with their support suite of Dispossessed heroes, Freeguild Crossbowmen and maybe Shadow Warriors are stand outs. Plus a whole lot more units are workable if you don't need to be strictly optimal.

It's hard to say how good Cities will be competitively right at this moment. The best list was probably Stormdrake Guard/Fulminators in Living City, but that Strike and Melt Away was just changed to stop that strategy. Plus, with the new GHB, we are moving away from a rule set that favours monsters to one that favours certain kinds of infantry. I think Cities might be able to thrive a little more in that environment, but it's to early to really know.

[The Red King]

I feel like living city was never the best shooting city anyways and skirmish isn't really something we can do with our fairly short ranges as opposed to other stronger shooting factions so the ability to strike and melt forward made us a viable melee skirmish army. Now that's gone and Tempest eye shoots better in our own book so unless you want Sylvaneth for fluff reasons (like me) there's not much reason to take living city. 

The wanderers (living city) suffering for the sins of the stormcast (fulminators) lines up perfectly with the lore at least lol

[Lord Krungharr]

2 hours ago, NauticalSoup said:

Some good some bad. There are a lot of stinkers in our army lists but we have some really solid allegiance traits. If you are willing to dip into stormcast coalition units you can actually create some pretty impressive lists right now, there are a few shells that are near the top of the meta.

If you play Cities for fluff and want to have a list that's all freeguild or dwarfs (like me) you're going to have a rougher time.

There are definitely worse armies. I can win more reliably with my fluffy dwarf force than with my bonezplitterz.

Bonesplitterz just got a buff, so that ALL their tohits of 6 cause 2 hits.  Big Stabbas rejoice!

True that an army of almost all Dwarves just doesn't cut the mustard very well, even if one of them is Gotrek and 2 of them are Gyrocopters.

[Lord Krungharr]

1 hour ago, The Red King said:

I feel like living city was never the best shooting city anyways and skirmish isn't really something we can do with our fairly short ranges as opposed to other stronger shooting factions so the ability to strike and melt forward made us a viable melee skirmish army. Now that's gone and Tempest eye shoots better in our own book so unless you want Sylvaneth for fluff reasons (like me) there's not much reason to take living city. 

The wanderers (living city) suffering for the sins of the stormcast (fulminators) lines up perfectly with the lore at least lol

I think the Living City healing is good, outflank is good, traits/relics/spells are all good.  I am glad I lived there for a while as it gave me a reason to buy some trees, and now I have a whole stompy army of metal treelord types   But now I'll visit Greywater and Tempest's Eye when I get my Steam Tanks built, and also magnetized/converted to optionally become Hurricanums and Luminarks.

[Thugmullet]

On 6/23/2022 at 8:52 AM, Thugmullet said:

 

So I'm looking at Alarielle now. I think her new warscroll looks good, price seems fair as she now comes back to life and she's still got her summon.

What I'm curious about is that she needs overgrown or Woods to do it. All  I can  see is the Treelord Ancient as only option for a wood that we know will work 100%  (her spell also yes, but Im not risking 800 points on something that may not happen).

That's 1200 points for 2 characters and I just can't see a viable army built around them with only 800 points left.

As it stands it seems that really she's not viable for LC under these conditions.

Is there a reliable way for LC to make stuff overgrown? An ability from a low cost Sylvaneth hero for instance.

Anyone know yet if they'll be overgrown terrain in the new GHB that will appear on the table?

And has anybody got an LC army there thinking about that would work built around Treelord Ancient and Alarielle?

What's your thoughts on running her without a wood or overgrown (seems too risky to me.)

 

Edited June 25, 2022 by Thugmullet

[Lord Krungharr]

Well if you can control what terrain is on the table, any woods/forests will count as Wyldwoods.  But not sure if that will count as overgrown or Awakened Wyldwoods.  Those tricksy wordings might prevent use of Alarielle in LC.

I still want to try my Steam Tanks in LC, but looking like Greywater might be the better choice.  Worth trying.

[Jaskier]

For tournaments, you'd need to bring an Ancient for sure as there's no other way to reliably set up a wood, and you can't rely on there being preset overgrown terrain on any given table. It's a shame because the Ancient is just not very useful and despite her buffs the nerf to StMA means Alarielle probably isn't that good in Living City anymore either. Even with an Ancient, having only one wood to pop back out of is a big risk as it's that much easier for an opponent to block. 

[Trickflo]

It's unfortunate LC took a pretty big hit w. stma being nerfed and sylvaneth wizards summon tree being moved from warscroll to battle trait. It's looking pretty hard to build a thematic list now especially one that doesn't revolve around shooting. I think perhaps the biggest struggle w. allarielle/TLA list would be that you then have to fit in 6 cities/sc units in that remaining 800 points. That being said might be able to do some ok sylvaneth stuff using lady of vines as a mobile tree and scythe kurnoth hunters to make objectives overgrown.

Edited June 30, 2022 by Trickflo

[readercolin]

Sylvaneth wizards summon tree was always a battle trait, not a warscroll.  It was just included in the warscroll of the app because all sylvaneth wizards would know it in a sylvaneth army and GW didn't realize people might want to play sylvaneth units outside their allegience.

As for Alarielle, I think that if you want to run her, you do so with the understanding that the "resurrect" rule never comes into play.  You run her because she is a god with great healing, 3 casts, and can summon another unit.  Then just screen her so she doesn't get alpha'd off the board.  On the bright side, if you run just her, you can still get a battle regiment going, but if you bring a TLA then you are a minimum of 2 drops, probably more.

[Barbarian Borelord]

On 6/24/2022 at 10:30 AM, Thugmullet said:

So I'm looking at Alarielle now. I think her new warscroll looks good, price seems fair as she now comes back to life and she's still got her summon.

What I'm curious about is that she needs overgrown or Woods to do it. All  I can  see is the Treelord Ancient as only option for a wood that we know will work 100%  (her spell also yes, but Im not risking 800 points on something that may not happen).

 

Where are you getting this from? My most recent information on Alarielle is from the Kragnos book; I do not know what this coming back to life and overgrown business is about...

 

EDIT: Never mind, I figured it out already.

Edited July 5, 2022 by Barbarian Borelord

[Popisdead]

So CoS is 1/4 units can be Sylvaneth.  Was there any changes to how you can add Sylvaneth and SCE units into Living City?  I'm thinking specifically Coalition and if they needed to abide newer Ver 3 AoS rules, possibly points capping, etc.

Or can I just have 1 Sylvaneth unit for 3 (Wanderer) CoS units?

 

Thanks kindly

 

[readercolin]

There have been no changes with Cities since they changed it to coalition (with respect to the army building).  So you can have 1/4 units be sylvaneth, 1/4 be stormcast, and 1/4 be allies.  Your general has to be from the cities, and you have to meet your battleline requirements from the cities, but coalition units that have the battleline keyword will still count as galletian veterans.  This means that you can bring a squad of tree-revenants and they will still count for expert conquerers, but you will still need another 3 cities units for your battleline.

Edited October 5, 2022 by readercolin

[Popisdead]

On 10/5/2022 at 2:59 PM, readercolin said:

 This means that you can bring a squad of tree-revenants and they will still count for expert conquerers, but you will still need another 3 cities units for your battleline.

Is that a suggestion?  

Outside sylvaneth nothing caught my eye really...

 

[readercolin]

3 hours ago, Popisdead said:

Is that a suggestion?  

Outside sylvaneth nothing caught my eye really...

I mean, if I were to bring Sylvaneth models in I would be looking at the following:

Tree revenants because they do something that cities can't otherwise (teleporting).  That being said, living cities deepstriking, or shadow warriors do most of what I would want tree revenants to do, so this is kind of lower down.

Warsong revenant.  This is the only non-named 2 cast wizard that cities has access to outside of settlers gain (and their brand new 2 cast wizard).  You don't have spellsinger, but if you want to do the old spell portal warsong bomb, you can still do that rather effectively with this guy.  Otherwise, it is a good supporting wizard model, with effectively 14 wounds on a 5+ save... Which is better than most of the other big wizards that we have access to.

Kurnoth hunters (scythes).  Cities doesn't have a lot of good access to good rend, and scythe hunters can give it to you.  The sword and bow hunters have better options to choose from within cities or stormcast though.

Arch-revenant.  I would only bring this with the previously mentioned scythes, because the extra attack cp and +1 to wound bubble can both be good, and if you have a hurricanum nearby you don't even need to worry about all out attack.

Branchwych.  If you want to warsong bomb people on a budget, the branchwych can give that to you, and cities doesn't have any equivalent spells available.  Generally not what I'm looking to do with my living cities list, but if you can build around it you can go for it.

Treelord.  The treelord is interesting because the fight last monstrous action is on the warscroll, and he has the no pile in effect.  Living city also has good access to healing, so you can keep it on its top bracket for the smackdown.

Revenant seekers.  Seekers are a fat, fast moving, self regenerating threat that has a good bit of mobility.  A squad of 6 of them can zip around faster than most of what cities can bring and drop a hammer.  Arguably stormcast cav can do this better, but if you want to run different stormcast units you may not have the option.

Revenant lancers.  The lancers are less resilient seekers, but the fight first effect means you can double hit with say a squad of them and a squad of another melee hammer (fulminators? Dragons?).  Combine this with a smash hero with the spear of the hunt for triple activation on the charge.

Gossamid archers.  Gossamid archers are outclassed in damage by most cities ranged units.  However, they can take up a lot of board space and the retreat after unleash is something that cities doesn't otherwise have access to.

Overall, most of these effects are things that you might be able to get without Sylvaneth units.  However, most of them do things a little differently than other things cities have access to, and there are use cases for most of what I listed.  Honestly, I think the most enticing option is the seekers + knight Draconis with spear of the hunt and then a third melee hammer of your choice (I would look at fulminators or stormdrakes, but you shouldn't dismiss a treelord or a block of phoenix guard either).  Back that up with some ranged units for battleline and objective sitting and you have a halfway decent force.

Edited October 9, 2022 by readercolin

[Lord Krungharr]

I've just made a Sylvaneth army, but only because I found some cheap old metal Treelords, and then just went all in on big stompy trees....and then 30 little old metal trees.  The teleporting of the Tree Revenants is intriguing.  The Living City with Dispossessed was my first City since the short-ones are slow, figured the outflanking might help with that.

Since they kinda nerfed the Strike and Melt thing, has that really changed much of anything?  Seems like it could still prove useful for getting slowpokes that can shoot anything a little bit further along the way in some cases.

Knight Draconis vs a Frostheart or Flamespyre Phoenix w Spear of the Hunt....or pair of Stormdrakes?  Which is better for the points?  The Knight Draconis is certainly a brutal combat monster.  But the Anointed ward of a Phoenix is tasty.  Pair of drakes is pretty solid because of the wound bulk plus double breath.

I'll definitely use a Treelord though in my next Living City game.  The last-strike effect thing plus the Lash and Tendril thing are very very good.  Plus it's a tree!

[readercolin]

So I think that if you are taking spear of the hunt, you should stick it on a knight draconis.  Remember, it only affects the rider, it doesn't affect the mount, and it gives strike first on the charge and +1 rend.  For a Knight Draconis, that means that he gets 5 attacks from his main weapon at 3+/2+/-4/2, and then 4 more from the dragon at 3+/3+/-2/2, for an average of 9 damage before saves, and just short of 8 damage to a 3+ save.  Meanwhile, sticking the spear on a frostheart means that the riders 4 attacks a 3+/3+/-1/1 get +1 rend... which... I guess that's a thing, but not much of one.  Same for a flamespyre, but at least the frostheart dishes out just short of 9 damage on average compared to the flamespyres just short of 6.  Yes, that is right, you can expect an average of less than 6 damage before saves from a flamespyre phoenix.  Finally, remember that the Knight-Draconis doesn't bracket, but the phoenix's do.  Worse, the phoenix's bracket as soon as they take 3 wounds, and their damage might as well fall off a cliff when it does, so even a 4+ ward isn't really enough to save them there.

Finally, strike and melt change nerfed the charging stormcast units.  Now I could see using it on something like a treelord (or whatever variant) for a bit more movement, but I think the better use is to use it on something like sisters of the watch or irondrakes so you can still re-position the unit but also get the 2 attacks per model in shooting from standing still.  This means you can deepstrike a squad of 20-30 sisters from the board edge, shoot something, dish out the damage, and then move 6" towards an objective to start contesting, and then repeat that on your next turn.  But overall I don't think it is worth building your list around the strike and fade anymore, and instead focus on the deepstrike abilities to differentiate you from other cities.

[Thugmullet]

3 hours ago, Lord Krungharr said:

I've just made a Sylvaneth army, but only because I found some cheap old metal Treelords, and then just went all in on big stompy trees....and then 30 little old metal trees.  The teleporting of the Tree Revenants is intriguing.  The Living City with Dispossessed was my first City since the short-ones are slow, figured the outflanking might help with that.

Since they kinda nerfed the Strike and Melt thing, has that really changed much of anything?  Seems like it could still prove useful for getting slowpokes that can shoot anything a little bit further along the way in some cases.

Knight Draconis vs a Frostheart or Flamespyre Phoenix w Spear of the Hunt....or pair of Stormdrakes?  Which is better for the points?  The Knight Draconis is certainly a brutal combat monster.  But the Anointed ward of a Phoenix is tasty.  Pair of drakes is pretty solid because of the wound bulk plus double breath.

I'll definitely use a Treelord though in my next Living City game.  The last-strike effect thing plus the Lash and Tendril thing are very very good.  Plus it's a tree!

I'll normally run a unit of 2 Stormdrake Guard AND a frost pheonix in my lists. I'll use the Frostie as a tank. His speed is great to get to the apponant hammers before they go off on me first and if he can tank 500+ points for a turn or two... great. That's one less hammer to worry about while I manouver the rest of my army around. With arcane tome and the heal spell (or flaming weapons if you want less durability but more punch) he's a good chance of keeping his 3+/4+ save/ward regardless of rend he's facing. I'd use the Knight Draconas instead but if I was looking for a damage dealer hero however.

Dragons I use as a fast light hammer. Great for pinching objectives from weaker units and there speed is great in letting them get to another spot to surport attacks. Free re roll with charge is also pretty good now we've lost strike and melt away to move closer. No command point needed, which is great.

Iv tried Strike and Melt away on the new Gosimid archers. It goes OK with them. You can drop them in and then use it to spread them out and cover some extra ground or get them inboard away from there 6' drop in. It's nothing ka boom... But does ok when needed. Whether it's worth a command point and a hero to drop within 18inches but.. Mmm IDK.

Tree revs are highly recommended. I'll have them in every army I do if I can spare the points... Even as allies with out army buffs. These guys can get the points for capturing scenery pretty much in whichever turn you want, you can reposition them as chaff anywhere you want to plug gaps in an emergency and they are great for getting the points for having two units in apponant zone as you really only have to get one unit there and then pop these guys in. There so good for there points. They won't kill much, but they can be worth 4 victory points in a game, for there cost.. Thats gold.

Like others have said with them, I'm started looking at Tempest Eye lately to see if it has anything more to offer. I'm a little addicted to the 1 point heal in hero phase and great spell lore from this city  however.

[Lord Krungharr]

I forgot about those sneaky Battle Tactics; Desecrate Lands has been challenging with Dwarves, even fast Gyrocopters aren't enough models to usually pull it off (I like to summon the Infernoth with an allied Runesmiter so I don't usually tunnel him with HGBs, even when I play full Fyreslayers).  

I have some spare Phoenix heads and flamey wings.  I might be able to cobble together a Dwarfy constructed mecha-phoenix of some sort, make or just paint it frosty somehow...and Annoint a Dwarf to keep the fleshy aelves out of my army.  The trees don't count for that 🌲

 

Edited October 11, 2022 by Lord Krungharr

[Thugmullet]

3 hours ago, Lord Krungharr said:

I forgot about those sneaky Battle Tactics; Desecrate Lands has been challenging with Dwarves, even fast Gyrocopters aren't enough models to usually pull it off (I like to summon the Infernoth with an allied Runesmiter so I don't usually tunnel him with HGBs, even when I play full Fyreslayers).  

I have some spare Phoenix heads and flamey wings.  I might be able to cobble together a Dwarfy constructed mecha-phoenix of some sort, make or just paint it frosty somehow...and Annoint a Dwarf to keep the fleshy aelves out of my army.  The trees don't count for that 🌲

 

Yeah good move.

Everyone knows you can't trust elves. 😊

[Lord Krungharr]

First tournament of next year is January 21st, and to encourage an early Spring, I'm thinking I'll run my Living City again but with new reinforcements.  Maybe I'll do pure Sylvaneth, but darn it, my Dwarves need to get out of the mines more often. 

Not sure about battalions other than a Command Entourage, not sure also about using my allied Runemaster to get a Molten Infernoth or Flamespitter out there to wreak havoc (potentially).

-Frostheart Phoenix (general, Ironoak Artisan, Arcane Tome, Lifesurge)

-Warden King

-Runelord (heal)

-Knight-Draconis (Spear of the Hunt)

-allied Runemaster (Curse)....and Molten Infernoth OR Zhargron Flamespitter

-20 Ironbreakers

-3x10 Longbeards w great axes

-10 Tree Revenants

-Treelord

I think this has some good debuff action, some MW spewing action, screeny type of units who won't run with the King atop his stone, teleporting, decent combat.  Considering using my pair of Gyrocopters but I really like the Fyreslayers invocations, had good luck with those recently.  

[Marcvs]

1 hour ago, Lord Krungharr said:

using my allied Runemaster to get a Molten Infernoth or Flamespitter out there to wreak havoc (potentially).

just as a heads up but you can't include in your list endless spells or invocation from other allegiances even if you ally in a caster/priest who can theoretically cast them (FAQ to the core rules under 27.1)

[Lord Krungharr]

Aw, that sucks!  Didn't know that was a rule now.  Guess some Irondrakes then.

[Cerve]

On 10/10/2022 at 8:03 AM, Thugmullet said:

I'll normally run a unit of 2 Stormdrake Guard AND a frost pheonix in my lists. I'll use the Frostie as a tank. His speed is great to get to the apponant hammers before they go off on me first and if he can tank 500+ points for a turn or two... great. That's one less hammer to worry about while I manouver the rest of my army around. With arcane tome and the heal spell (or flaming weapons if you want less durability but more punch) he's a good chance of keeping his 3+/4+ save/ward regardless of rend he's facing. I'd use the Knight Draconas instead but if I was looking for a damage dealer hero however.

Dragons I use as a fast light hammer. Great for pinching objectives from weaker units and there speed is great in letting them get to another spot to surport attacks. Free re roll with charge is also pretty good now we've lost strike and melt away to move closer. No command point needed, which is great.

Iv tried Strike and Melt away on the new Gosimid archers. It goes OK with them. You can drop them in and then use it to spread them out and cover some extra ground or get them inboard away from there 6' drop in. It's nothing ka boom... But does ok when needed. Whether it's worth a command point and a hero to drop within 18inches but.. Mmm IDK.

Tree revs are highly recommended. I'll have them in every army I do if I can spare the points... Even as allies with out army buffs. These guys can get the points for capturing scenery pretty much in whichever turn you want, you can reposition them as chaff anywhere you want to plug gaps in an emergency and they are great for getting the points for having two units in apponant zone as you really only have to get one unit there and then pop these guys in. There so good for there points. They won't kill much, but they can be worth 4 victory points in a game, for there cost.. Thats gold.

Like others have said with them, I'm started looking at Tempest Eye lately to see if it has anything more to offer. I'm a little addicted to the 1 point heal in hero phase and great spell lore from this city  however.

I'm interested into 6 Seekers+6 Lancers, and the Horn artifact. Both the hoppers have 2 melee weapons, it means +2 attacks for each once per game. Could be an interesting alpha strike/beta strike. 

Lancers because of fight first, then Seekers following up. If you can play 3 Sylvaneths, Drycha is another unit with 2 melee weapons. 

 

I like Gossamid Archers too for melting away. In Living City you would even try 10 of them, their sniping potential is pretty good imho, and melting away of 12" sounds nasty

[Lord Krungharr]

I'll be fighting Nurgle on Sunday, haven't fought them with anything for a long time.  Figure some healing will be useful, but also tough hard-hitting stuff so here's what I'm bringing to try some new things out:

Anointed on Frostheart Phoenix (general;Ironoak artisan) 

Steam Tank Commander (can heal himself naturally)

Celestial Hurricanum w mage (Lifesurge)

Knight-Draconis (Spear of the Hunt)

2x10 Ironbreakers w bombs

1x10 Longbeards w great weapons

1x10 Tree Revenants

Treelord

Quicksilver Swords (considered Emerald Lifeswarm, but the ignoring wards is also good vs Nurgle)

At 2000 exactly so probably no Triumph, but I like Inspired.  Not sure which Grand Strategy to do though.  Gotta read up on them.  Should be a grind, but I like my big units.  Hoping the Treelord can make something fight last and not pile in at some point to help some tag team action, and the Tree Revs hopping around might be of use and I'll probably try to not engage them much actually unless needed or unavoidable.  Shorties will provide screens and maybe score objectives.  Nurgle is also low model count usually so I might be on even terms there.  Thinking a Battle Regiment and 3 more drops for 4 total.  I could trade the Revenants and spell for another Treelord though and take a Line Breaker battalion (if that's still legal?  Can't remember).  Might be okay too.

[Lord Krungharr]

Big win today over Nurgle!  Vs the Drowned Men, w Pusgole general w an aura of no CAs!, 2x2 Pusgoyles, Wurmspat, Rotmire Creed, Bloab and Orghotts maggoth lords, Fecula, and Festus Leechlord.  Mission was Lurkers Below, a sudden death mission.  I have him first turn but never got the double turn.  He droned up to hold the center, then I met him with the Knight Draconis and Phoenix, and at the bottom of turn 3 my Phoenix was gone but so were all his flies and Fecula, and I had all the objectives and POOF VICTORY!

The healing that Disease Point away every my hero phase was excellent but I never got Lifesurge off 😛  I didn't outflank anyone as the mission required sequential control of the objectives...and of course the Tree Revenants just teleported to his backfield one and clinched it by moving up my turn 3 after Desecrating His Lands.  Treelord's Stompy Action was also very useful as it allowed me to whittle down the Pusgoyles more before they could strike back and cause more disease points (which are super annoying!).  Steam Tank was unimpressive until my turn 3 when it battered Bloab who had charged into my Ironbreakers and Longbeards near my objective; combined with the Hurricanum, and some good Longbeard attacks previously, he was slain in my shooting phase.

Ended with my Draconis killing off Fecula for Eye for an Eye (in retaliation for losing my Phoenix general).  Draconis survived Orghotts with 3 wounds left.  Had I not won, that might have been the end, though if I would have gotten turn 4 priority I would have retreated and healed a bit.

Purple Sun luckily never rolled a 1....didn't realize that thing could erase any one of my monsters!  I failed to dispel it turn 2...next time I'm switching out the Quicksilver Swords and Steam Tank Commander for a Runelord or 2.  They have good anti-magic, and help the Duardin too.

Love my Living City!  The bits of healing, the Ironoak Artisan Trait, and coalition trees, and Outflanking if needed, all excellent.  I hope that stays in the next book.

Oops!  That last photo is actually the first one of deployment.  That mechanical winged thing is a proxy for my Duardin Phoenix, which isn't assembled yet, but the Duardin Knight Draconis w Balrog wings turned out pretty neat!

Edited December 5, 2022 by Lord Krungharr