AoS 2 - Living City Discussion

[martinwolf]

I have run Wild Riders in 5s and also 10s in 2nd edition. While they CAN be great on the charge, 4+ to wound is just really really though. And as soon as they are stuck they lose all their power and they can not take a punch with their 5+ save. I'll still try them out in 2nd edition because they are fast and I like the models but not being able to buff their wound rolls (in Living City) is just hard.

[gregoire.fevre.52@gmail.co]

First think of potentially abised things in Living City 3.0:

- wyldwoods allow 1 TP from historical Sylvaneth allegiance (could be use to Sylvaneth unit) 

- you could take a treelord ancient to have 3 separate wylwoods in Living City 

- you can take treelords froms free TPs with one treelord ancient 

-Dryads could have bonus from proximities of Wyldwoods

- you can make a hard alfa strike anywhere on the board combine with Spitewarm Hive and and Living City CA (treelord/treelord ancient/drycha) 

- Linebreaker battalions help you in this case

- combo without defensive issue without perfect placement of your opponent

 

Enjoy! 🥳

[SentinelGuy]

I may be mistaken but I didn't think you could use coalition endless spells now, so the hive isn't available in Living City

Edited July 3, 2021 by SentinelGuy

[KydbrookP]

So someone clever in another thread asked if Ghur battlemages get +1 casts for all pitched battles, as they’re all in Ghur for now.

If so, could be a good pick? Hide him behind a Hurricanum to avoid sniping, and he’s +2 casting; +3 for endless spells. Give him the generic extra spell artefact and cogs and he’s casting three spells - maybe keeping out of sight and supporting with his own +2 charge spell, Ironoak Skin and mystic shield or an endless spell?

[Popisdead]

On 6/29/2021 at 5:30 PM, Zeblasky said:

Don't underestimate how our good Dreadlord pal is. Even if you consider that he can take serious damage, within your and enemy turns in combat versus 5+ save or stronger Dreadlord can do as much damage as 20 Sisters of the Watch can do with 1 volley. Add a decent breath attack, and he will outdamage them. Now, a lot of it depends on if he does not get crippled by damage or even killed, buffs-debuffs, the fact the Sisters can cause more alpha -> more battleshock damage. But overall, his damage is very good. Especially in your build, where he has +1 to wound. Not as great as +1 to hit on him, but hey, you always have All Out Attack to turn him into a great blender.

 

Wild Riders right now are most effective in units of 5 due to coherency. And flaming weapons on such a small unit is not that impactul, as on average it gives them an extra attack going through, aka extra rend 2 damage 2. It's decent, sure, but there can be better targets for this buff.

The Sisters of the Watch are good but got hit hard twice (needlessly perhaps).  Going up?!?!?! in price was a shocker (did you ever see them in tournaments) and nerfing their stand and shoot to be -1 to hit was the second.  I would say they easily could have gone down in points and you still wouldn't see them being top tier.  I sure love them and will take a couple units of 10.  As you say, I guess one thing to consider is they are good vs monsters (chip through with MWs) and infantry (enough shots the bravery with the odd debuff could be quite drastic.

 

On 6/29/2021 at 10:27 PM, martinwolf said:

I have run Wild Riders in 5s and also 10s in 2nd edition. While they CAN be great on the charge, 4+ to wound is just really really though. And as soon as they are stuck they lose all their power and they can not take a punch with their 5+ save. I'll still try them out in 2nd edition because they are fast and I like the models but not being able to buff their wound rolls (in Living City) is just hard.

There is a spell in the Sylvaneth Lore (re: Warsinger)that is rr 1s for to hit and wound.  It could help them.  WhenW Rs do indeed punch through the -2 and 2 dmg is good.  Frankly I still think 10 WRs with the second rank being perpendicular to the front rank (being sideways) is still good.  Perhaps +1 to hit from All Out Attack (since the NP and Hurricanum can be elsewhere) on them mitigates the dice spiking of wounding on 4s.  Yesterday I watched 5 rip apart one of the DoK medusa infantry girls.  

On 7/3/2021 at 3:27 AM, SentinelGuy said:

I may be mistaken but I didn't think you could use coalition endless spells now, so the hive isn't available in Living City

Are Sylvaneth Coalistion for CoS?  Is that the 3rd ed change?  if so then sounds like a change.  However if they are still just 1/4 can be Sylvaneth the requirement for the EndSp is just being a Sylvaneth Wizard.

 

Cinderfall Gaming did a bat rep.  here that was a surprising list but fun to watch.  Plus it isn't a stupid length like 3  hours so on 1.75 speed makes it easier to watch.

[SentinelGuy]

4 hours ago, Popisdead said:

The Sisters of the Watch are good but got hit hard twice (needlessly perhaps).  Going up?!?!?! in price was a shocker (did you ever see them in tournaments) and nerfing their stand and shoot to be -1 to hit was the second.  I would say they easily could have gone down in points and you still wouldn't see them being top tier.  I sure love them and will take a couple units of 10.  As you say, I guess one thing to consider is they are good vs monsters (chip through with MWs) and infantry (enough shots the bravery with the odd debuff could be quite drastic.

 

There is a spell in the Sylvaneth Lore (re: Warsinger)that is rr 1s for to hit and wound.  It could help them.  WhenW Rs do indeed punch through the -2 and 2 dmg is good.  Frankly I still think 10 WRs with the second rank being perpendicular to the front rank (being sideways) is still good.  Perhaps +1 to hit from All Out Attack (since the NP and Hurricanum can be elsewhere) on them mitigates the dice spiking of wounding on 4s.  Yesterday I watched 5 rip apart one of the DoK medusa infantry girls.  

Are Sylvaneth Coalistion for CoS?  Is that the 3rd ed change?  if so then sounds like a change.  However if they are still just 1/4 can be Sylvaneth the requirement for the EndSp is just being a Sylvaneth Wizard.

 

Cinderfall Gaming did a bat rep.  here that was a surprising list but fun to watch.  Plus it isn't a stupid length like 3  hours so on 1.75 speed makes it easier to watch.

They're a coalition choice in Living City now. They're allies for the others (not Greywater). 

[Popisdead]

21 hours ago, SentinelGuy said:

They're a coalition choice in Living City now. They're allies for the others (not Greywater). 

Hmm okay thanks.  I still haven't gotten into GW to pick up my rulebooks and have just been reading the rules and what Chumphammer posted (battle plans etc).

[Belathor]

I was listening to face hammer and he mentioned a living cities list that is supposedly mostly just stormcast but plays better. What list is this? Is it just the stardrake 4 fulminators and friends list?

[SentinelGuy]

On 7/9/2021 at 10:12 AM, Belathor said:

I was listening to face hammer and he mentioned a living cities list that is supposedly mostly just stormcast but plays better. What list is this? Is it just the stardrake 4 fulminators and friends list?

Only 1 in 4 units can be Stormcast, so I guess they mean most points spent on Stormcast?

[Kiekeboe]

I'd like to revive the idea of Alarielle in Living City. I know she's been hit with a points increase but there's just so much for her to take advantage of between her new scroll and 3.0 changes.

- Retreat and shoot/charge. This isn't just retreat and charge, this is retreat, shoot, Living City CP move (which doesn't trigger redeploy), and charge again. You can make so much distance with this. She's going to be so hard to pin down and she can get to places you wouldn't even expect her. This is the biggest one that got me thinking Living City again.

- She gained the Sylvaneth spell lore (if I misunderstand this, my bad, but as I'm reading it she keeps the sylvaneth lore in Living City). So you can now go Throne of Vines -> Cogs (on +3) -> warscroll spell/Living City spell/return a Kurnoth Hunter/etc. Have someone else drop a spell portal and she can snipe out support heroes.

- Alarielle dies, that's always been her problem. However Living City has means of protecting her. A hysh battlemage spell, ironoak skin, a frostheart phoenix buddy, and more. 

These are the 3 main points for me to give her a serious go, I've quickly written a list to try out and I'll be experimenting more this upcoming week. 
 

Spoiler

Allegiance: Cities of Sigmar
- City: Living City
- Mortal Realm: Ghyran
- Grand Strategy: Prized Sorcery
- Triumphs: Inspired
LEADERS
Alarielle the Everqueen (740) in Battle Regiment
- Lore of Leaves: Ironoak Skin
Anointed on Frostheart Phoenix (315)
- General
- Command Trait: Forest Strider
- Artefact: Arcane Tome - Flaming Weapon
Celestial Hurricanum with Celestial Battlemage (280)
- Lore of Leaves: Lifesurge
UNITS
10 x Ironbreakers (115) in Battle Regiment
10 x Eternal Guard (125) in Battle Regiment
10 x Eternal Guard (125) in Battle Regiment
10 x Sisters of the Watch (180) in Battle Regiment
ENDLESS SPELLS & INVOCATIONS
Chronomantic Cogs (45)
Umbral Spellportal (70)

This is the list I'll be trying first. The idea is to have Alarielle be Alarielle with a Frostheart Phoenix buddy. I've made the Phoenix a wizard with flaming weapon because 8 attacks 3 dmg makes him more of a threat than he was. And I've given the Phoenix run & charge trait because the Ironoak Artisan +1 to wound only applies to the anointed and +1 save doesn't really do much when mystic shield and casting a spell gives him that as well. With cogs he can go flaming weapon and charge an arcane bolt, then run and charge to go where he needs to be, sounds good to me. The hurricanum is there because why would you leave your home without it. The units are just chosen around what I have (ideally I'd play more dwarves), but I'll deepstrike 1 unit of Eternal guard with the Sisters to have a threat somewhere that has to be dealt with, a distraction basically. Alarielle/Phoenix/Hurricanum are the core to this list, the rest is very much open to be changed.

 

Ideally in the hero phase I'd go: Alarielle Throne, Alarielle cogs, Hurricanum spellportal next to itself or Alarielle, Alarielle metamorphosis through portal, Alarielle ironoak skin. Hurricanum and Phoenix then have spells remaining and they can give mystic shield to whoever wants it. Probably Alarielle.

 

Ps. I'm very sad about losing the option to make Durthu a general with Ironoak Artisan/Spear of the hunt

Edited July 16, 2021 by Kiekeboe

[Zeblasky]

On 7/16/2021 at 10:42 AM, Kiekeboe said:

I've made the Phoenix a wizard with flaming weapon because 8 attacks 3 dmg makes him more of a threat than he was. And I've given the Phoenix run & charge trait because the Ironoak Artisan +1 to wound only applies to the anointed and +1 save doesn't really do much when mystic shield and casting a spell gives him that as well. With cogs he can go flaming weapon and charge an arcane bolt, then run and charge to go where he needs to be, sounds good to me. The hurricanum is there because why would you leave your home without it. The units are just chosen around what I have (ideally I'd play more dwarves), but I'll deepstrike 1 unit of Eternal guard with the Sisters to have a threat somewhere that has to be dealt with, a distraction basically. Alarielle/Phoenix/Hurricanum are the core to this list, the rest is very much open to be changed.
 

Honestly, I would have actually gone for an Ironoak Artisan train on Phoenix still. He's very tanky, but he's not unkillable even with heroic healing. 3+/4++, that ignores 1 point of rend for no extra investment is pretty great. This frees you up to use Mystic shield and All out Defence on any other unit in your army and you can throw your Frost Birb to tarpit the hardest hitting units in your opponent army. If he still gets into too much trouble, just hit him with All Out Defense, so you could ignore 2 points of rend and heal him back up. This way, only rend 3, a lot of MW, or A LOT of no rend attacks (like 70 hits at once) could pose a threat to this setup. Well, and ista kill attacks as well.

The idea with Alarielee is pretty good overall though, but I probably would place her in deepstrike though for safepeeking if you want to go second. Taking a treelord with her could be a good idea though, to maximise her AoE healing.

Edited July 17, 2021 by Zeblasky

[Kiekeboe]

22 minutes ago, Zeblasky said:

Honestly, I would have actually gone for an Ironoak Artisan train on Phoenix still. He's very tanky, but he's not unkillable even with heroic healing. 3+/4++, that ignores 1 point of rend for no extra investment is pretty great. This frees you up to use Mystic shield and All out Defence on any other unit in your army and you can throw your Frost Birb to tarpit the hardest hitting units in your opponent army. If he still gets into too much trouble, just hit him with All Out Defense, so you could ignore 2 points of rend and heal him back up. This way, only rend 3, a lot of MW, or A LOT of no rend attacks (like 70 hits at once) could pose a threat to this setup. Well, and ista kill attacks as well.

The idea with Alarielee is pretty good overall though, but I probably would place her in deepstrike though for safepeeking if you want to go second. Taking a treelord with her could be a good idea though, to maximise her AoE healing.

Good points on the phoenix, will think that over again. Alarielle doesn't fit in deepstrike unfortunately, you can't deploy her wholly within 6 of the table edge because of her base size. I also wouldn't want to miss out on her 3 casts and just make sure she's safe during deployment.

[Zeblasky]

9 minutes ago, Kiekeboe said:

Good points on the phoenix, will think that over again. Alarielle doesn't fit in deepstrike unfortunately, you can't deploy her wholly within 6 of the table edge because of her base size. I also wouldn't want to miss out on her 3 casts and just make sure she's safe during deployment.

Ah, true, forgot about her base size.

[Popisdead]

On 7/16/2021 at 12:42 AM, Kiekeboe said:

I'd like to revive the idea of Alarielle in Living City. I know she's been hit with a points increase but there's just so much for her to take advantage of between her new scroll and 3.0 changes.

I've always liked putting Alarielle in Living City, and she's improved enough she's even more slightly better now stat-wise.  However it comes back down to the simple points.  She doesn't nothing well and costs a LOT.   She doesn't cast as well as a Warsong Revenant, she doesn't have protection as well, and she doesn't fight as well,.. (the last two not specifically the Warsong).  

I've also always disliked the idea of her sitting back to cast for 740 points (or even 600).  TBH I would still just reserve a hurricanum and command point her up the board.  Probably try some debuffs to prolong her life.  I mean do you think 740 points for a metamorphasis is worth it?  A Warsong can do his MW bomb for pretty much the same and bring an Ancient and it still works.  

I think,.. like a durthu she's just better in Sylvaneth than CoS.  

However like you I've constantly gone back to trying to get her to work in CoS haha.  What a model and what a miss,..  If you do get her working with some success please report back with it.  I'm happy to hear about people using her.

[Popisdead]

I heard on the Honest Wargamer a guy went 5-0 with this

Quote

 

Yndrastra 

durthu command ability, used feral roar

ancient

generic hurricanum ( no caster) 

20 irondrakes   

20 irondrakes   

10 freeguild   

dwarf general

 

 

TBH i'm not sure what he if anything he ambushed unless it was all the shooting.  With smaller boards do the Irondrakes work up front?  Also with the new Wildwoods it gives a Durthu 3 platforms to teleport around.  Yndrasta is good for utility.

[Erosharcos]

On 7/3/2021 at 6:16 AM, gregoire.fevre.52@gmail.co said:

First think of potentially abised things in Living City 3.0:

- wyldwoods allow 1 TP from historical Sylvaneth allegiance (could be use to Sylvaneth unit) 

- you could take a treelord ancient to have 3 separate wylwoods in Living City 

- you can take treelords froms free TPs with one treelord ancient 

-Dryads could have bonus from proximities of Wyldwoods

- you can make a hard alfa strike anywhere on the board combine with Spitewarm Hive and and Living City CA (treelord/treelord ancient/drycha) 

- Linebreaker battalions help you in this case

- combo without defensive issue without perfect placement of your opponent

 

Enjoy! 🥳

I’m not 100% confident but I think that the new RAW removes our ability to have an Awakened WyldWood in 3.0. 

3.0 FAQ for Sylvaneth changed the wording in the Awakened Wyldwood warscroll to include this wording:

“Only Sylvaneth armies can include this faction terrain feature” 

The Treelord Ancient warscroll says:

“Once per battle, in your hero phase, you can pick 1 friendly model with this ability and set up 1 AWAKENED WYLDWOOD wholly within 18" of that model and more than 1" from any other model, terrain feature or objective, and add it to your army.” 

So, what I’m uncertain of is if we can still summon an Awakened Wyldwood with the Treelord as Living City with the new 3.0 FAQ wording. While it’s not taking the Wood as a terrain feature in the starting army, (we’re summoning it), but the wording on the Treelord Warscroll says “add it to your army” which sounds like it might be considered “included” and therefore would not be eligible to have on the battlefield. 

I’ve been sifting through my core book and the FAQs trying to see if there is anything on summoned terrain and my interpretation of the new rules is that Living City cannot use a Treelord Ancient to summon an Awakened Wyldwood in 3.0 like we could in 2.0. 

[Grugg]

Has anyone tried fitting gotrek into a living city army? The free heal each turn is worth a lot on him (each wound on gotrek is worth so much), plus the ability to do more healing through spell lore.

Add a Ghur battle mage for the wildform spell.

Then maybe a rune Lord and some iron drake's?

 

Not sure what else to fill out the list with. Any thoughts?

 

[NauticalSoup]

1 hour ago, Grugg said:

Has anyone tried fitting gotrek into a living city army? The free heal each turn is worth a lot on him (each wound on gotrek is worth so much), plus the ability to do more healing through spell lore.

Add a Ghur battle mage for the wildform spell.

Then maybe a rune Lord and some iron drake's?

 

Not sure what else to fill out the list with. Any thoughts?

 

Wouldn't Gotrek be an ally? 

[Grugg]

Yea he would, but the way that wild form is worded is just 'friendly' unit/model, youre correct about the 1 wound a turn though from living city allegiance... So he is less good than I previously thought.

 

Going to try a list tonight with a core of dwarves:

  

Allegiance: Cities of Sigmar
- City: Living City
- Mortal Realm: Ghyran
- Grand Strategy: Hold the Line
- Triumphs:

Leaders
Celestial Hurricanum with Celestial Battlemage (280)
- Lore of Leaves: Ironoak Skin
Battlemage (115)
- City Role: General's Adjutant
- Mortal Realm: Ghur
- Lore of Leaves: Cage of Thorns
Runelord (100)
- General
- Command Trait: Ironoak Artisan
Gotrek Gurnisson (435)
- Allies
Spirit of Durthu (340)
- Artefact: Spear of the Hunt

Battleline
20 x Irondrakes (320)
- Reinforced x 1
20 x Ironbreakers (230)
- City Role: Honoured Retinue (Must be 5-20 models)
- Reinforced x 1
10 x Longbeards (105)
- Ancestral Weapons & Shields

Endless Spells & Invocations
Emerald Lifeswarm (60)

Total: 1985 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 2 / 4
Allies: 435 / 400
Wounds: 91

I figure gotrek and the dwarves march up the Field with durthu, irondeqkes and hurricanum deep striking in.

Edited July 23, 2021 by Grugg
readability

[Grugg]

Played against soulblight - nagash, Arkan, a necromancer and some skeletons.

 

Nagash is a big problem. 8 spells a turn is just oppressive. I teleported in the 20 irondrakes hurricanum and durthu figuring I could start chipping him down. All those shooting attacks and zero wounds got through.

He has some command ability where everything gets reroll 1's, and on a 2 up save with all out defense -1 rend doesn't cut it.

Gotrek was slow but when in combat he ate Arkan in one turn doing 24 wounds.

MVP: iron drake's - despite not chipping down nagash the first time they were able to kill the necromancer general and keep nagash tied up for 2 full turns.

Least valuable - durthu - for the points I would've rather had more irondrakes or some mobile units.

Dwarf Infantry are so slow, I think the list needs either more units to allow teleporting, or faster units on the board.

Anyone have any experience for dealing with big threats like nagash or morathi yet?

 

[Popisdead]

On 7/22/2021 at 6:41 PM, Erosharcos said:

“Only Sylvaneth armies can include this faction terrain feature” 

Hmmm  interesting.  It would sure dampen Sylvaneth in LC.  Usually it's "allegiance"  as the key word (two words there) to go by.  

On 7/23/2021 at 5:51 AM, Grugg said:

Has anyone tried fitting gotrek into a living city army? The free heal each turn is worth a lot on him (each wound on gotrek is worth so much), plus the ability to do more healing through spell lore.

Add a Ghur battle mage for the wildform spell.

 

When that aussie CoS player Simon on the HWG he talked about the same thing.  Gotrek right now having a good solid place in LC.  I think there is a 6" auto-run ability (tbh I always forget this).  Overcome his limitations by having him shoot up halfway the board in one turn.

Edited July 28, 2021 by Popisdead

[Grugg]

18 hours ago, Popisdead said:

When that aussie CoS player Simon on the HWG he talked about the same thing.  Gotrek right now having a good solid place in LC.  I think there is a 6" auto-run ability (tbh I always forget this).  Overcome his limitations by having him shoot up halfway the board in one turn.

Yea this is what I ended up doing with him. That plus heroic recovery was amazing.

I think I needed more threats than just gotrek, he could still get kited around objectives. Didn't help that nagash was throwing out lots of spells that hindered movement (doesn't move on a 5+, takes mortal wounds on the charge) but gotrek was still great.

Also i thought the irondrakes would do more to nagash, but he has a 2+ save rerolling 1's. Should have just foscussed on deleting the other heros and units and ignored nagash.

Tempted to run drycha instead of durthu, or spend the points on some khainite shadow stalkers and tree revenants for TP shenanigans.

[Erosharcos]

On 7/28/2021 at 12:11 PM, Popisdead said:

Hmmm  interesting.  It would sure dampen Sylvaneth in LC.  Usually it's "allegiance"  as the key word (two words there) to go by.  

Yeah, I was talking with another fellow who said that "included" is typically only in reference to the starting army, and that the rules don't explicitly call out faction terrain, but it's probably considered a summoned unit... which would mean that LC could take it? 

I definitely don't want to lose my LC dryad factory though lol. 

[Slave2Chaos]

Looking at adding the new Warsong Revenant and a tree lord ancient combo to my living city build options. Think its worth it?

[Popisdead]

On 8/14/2021 at 3:40 PM, Slave2Chaos said:

Looking at adding the new Warsong Revenant and a tree lord ancient combo to my living city build options. Think its worth it?

I'm wondering that too.  Magic is really good and CoS mages get +1 to cast endless spells.  I played today with a Beast Mage and he got off nothing, even with +3 to cast Cogs,..  

 

On another note: if a Runelord takes the Curse from the BRB, which is normally on a 4+, does it replace his curse or is it in addition?  And then more importantly is it cast on a 4+ or a 2+ (as per his warscroll)?

 

Thanks kindly