AoS 2 - Living City Discussion

[Kiekeboe]

17 hours ago, Popisdead said:

Anyone listen to Facehammer's building a Sylvaneth stream/podcast episode?  

I did but I heard so many things where they were just wrong that I gave up after half an hour because I felt that they had no idea what they were talking about in a competitive sense. Getting points wrong, getting rules wrong, fawning over Household battalion because "It basically has no downsides. The Branchwych is great, the Treelord is great, and you can keep units from retreating which is great!" ... what? I'd love to see a unit of Tree-Revenants survive combat and keep someone important from retreating. 

They're great and entertaining guys but there were no real takeaways there if you want to up your competitive game, in my opinion. I may have tuned out too early so feel free to correct me if I'm talking rubbish and I'll go back and listen to the rest.

[Popisdead]

11 hours ago, Kiekeboe said:

I did but I heard so many things where they were just wrong that I gave up after half an hour because I felt that they had no idea what they were talking about in a competitive sense. Getting points wrong, getting rules wrong, fawning over Household battalion because "It basically has no downsides. The Branchwych is great, the Treelord is great, and you can keep units from retreating which is great!" ... what? I'd love to see a unit of Tree-Revenants survive combat and keep someone important from retreating. 

They're great and entertaining guys but there were no real takeaways there if you want to up your competitive game, in my opinion. I may have tuned out too early so feel free to correct me if I'm talking rubbish and I'll go back and listen to the rest.

I felt the same.  I mean they seemed to just meander about without good prep.  

[Alpidur]

Hi guys I read very often this community but I never do a post! First, I came from Italy so sorry for my English, I try to write better than I can! 
 

I run into AoS from one year and I choose living city! I love wood elves so I make a themed wood elves list, but I buy a frostHerat Phoenix and some Phoenix guard, because I like the models and I want to use with some wanderers and sylvaneth! Do you have some advice for 2k list? Thank you so much!

[Kiekeboe]

13 hours ago, Alpidur said:

Hi guys I read very often this community but I never do a post! First, I came from Italy so sorry for my English, I try to write better than I can! 
 

I run into AoS from one year and I choose living city! I love wood elves so I make a themed wood elves list, but I buy a frostHerat Phoenix and some Phoenix guard, because I like the models and I want to use with some wanderers and sylvaneth! Do you have some advice for 2k list? Thank you so much!

There's 42 pages of advice here, browse through and check out lists people post. Living City is extremely flexible in its lists, there is no go-to, you need to be looking for power pairs and pick what you like. The Frostheart Phoenix and Phoenix Guard are one such pair, so you're off to a good start. Other common pairs are Irondrakes/Ironbreakers + Runelord if  you like dwarves. Nomad Prince + Sisters of the Watch/Eternal Guard if you like elves. Sorceress+Darkshards if you want a magic combo, Freeguild General + Freeguild dudes, etc, etc. You can also never go wrong with a Hurricanum in any City list. 

I'm also looking to make the most out of Sylvaneth and I think the only Sylvaneth things that may have a place in LC are: a Durthu general (because of the Living City command trait/artefact), Alarielle (likes the +1 to hit from the Hurricanum and can make sick plays with the move->summon unit->shoot->LC command ability move->charge something that didn't expect to see Alarielle this turn), Drycha (strong anywhere), or melee Kurnoths (strong hammer/anvil with Hurricanum/Luminark backup). 

It's probably better if you do your own research, write up a list, and ask for feedback on that list - instead of just asking for other people to do all the work for you.

Most importantly, have fun. Living City has a million options and is a ton of fun to play because of that, find what works for you

[Alpidur]

I always have fun because I play what I like! But I never asked someone to do work for me! 
Anyway, I accepted your advice and I will do a more thoroughly reserch!

Thanks!😄

Edited March 29, 2021 by Alpidur

[The Red King]

3 hours ago, Kiekeboe said:

I'm also looking to make the most out of Sylvaneth and I think the only Sylvaneth things that may have a place in LC are: a Durthu general (because of the Living City command trait/artefact), Alarielle (likes the +1 to hit from the Hurricanum and can make sick plays with the move->summon unit->shoot->LC command ability move->charge something that didn't expect to see Alarielle this turn), Drycha (strong anywhere), or melee Kurnoths (strong hammer/anvil with Hurricanum/Luminark backup). 

I'd add Tree Revenants to the list for their mobility alone. Often living city is oddly immobile for an army of "wanderers" and having units that can start on the board for "hidden paths" and then teleport anywhere to grab or threaten distant objectives or even to screen your expensive sisters at times is a nice tool to have for only 80 points. 

[Kiekeboe]

5 minutes ago, The Red King said:

I'd add Tree Revenants to the list for their mobility alone. Often living city is oddly immobile for an army of "wanderers" and having units that can start on the board for "hidden paths" and then teleport anywhere to grab or threaten distant objectives or even to screen your expensive sisters at times is a nice tool to have for only 80 points. 

True, I thought about them as well but since Shadowstalkers are a thing you'll always take those for 20 more points.

[The Red King]

I like to run 2 units so its 40 points but more importantly to me anyway is the fact that tree revs start on the table allowing me to ambush more units wheras shadow warriors detract from that if I'm not mistaken. 

I have 10 "shadow warriors" made up of old metal waystalker though so I'm always open to being wrong lol

[Frowny]

The Khainite shadowstalkers also start on the board, so thats a moot point.

Relative to Tree Revenants, they have + 6 wounds, +4 bodies, a short ranged shooting attack, -1 to be hit, and nearly double the damage output in melee, all for only 20 points. A bit underpointed really, but they blow Tree Revenants away. 

Shadow warriors also hae some play, with the ability to deepstrike and the fade into melee. I think the time of tree revenants is done, unfortunately. 

[Popisdead]

6 hours ago, The Red King said:

I'd add Tree Revenants to the list for their mobility alone. Often living city is oddly immobile for an army of "wanderers" and having units that can start on the board for "hidden paths" and then teleport anywhere to grab or threaten distant objectives or even to screen your expensive sisters at times is a nice tool to have for only 80 points. 

TBH unless you do some shenaningans with a ambushing Hurricanum and Alarielle or maybe a Durthu as general kitted there are very few Sylvaneth units I think are worth taking but that's just me.  

5 hours ago, Frowny said:

Relative to Tree Revenants, they have + 6 wounds, +4 bodies, a short ranged shooting attack, -1 to be hit, and nearly double the damage output in melee, all for only 20 points. A bit underpointed really, but they blow Tree Revenants away. 

Shadow warriors also hae some play, with the ability to deepstrike and the fade into melee. I think the time of tree revenants is done, unfortunately. 

I heard a comment once they are the best warscroll in the game.  Oof,.. that's a lot of better eh?...   Are they allies to get them in?

Keep in mind people have limited models and sometimes funds.  Stalkers are better but if someone owns 5-10 Trevs don't tell them they cannot take them just cause there is a better option.  Trevs are still good just not the best choice.  

[Kiekeboe]

6 hours ago, The Red King said:

I like to run 2 units so its 40 points but more importantly to me anyway is the fact that tree revs start on the table allowing me to ambush more units wheras shadow warriors detract from that if I'm not mistaken. 

I have 10 "shadow warriors" made up of old metal waystalker though so I'm always open to being wrong lol

I think we're talking about different units here, small miscommunication 😅 I'm talking about the Khainite Shadowstalkers, which are in essence Tree-revenants - but better. 

And yep @Popisdead, they do take up one of the allies slots. But I don't think I've ever used allies in LC so that should be doable. At 100 points most people would agree they're severely undercosted.

[The Red King]

6 hours ago, Frowny said:

The Khainite shadowstalkers also start on the board, so thats a moot point.

Relative to Tree Revenants, they have + 6 wounds, +4 bodies, a short ranged shooting attack, -1 to be hit, and nearly double the damage output in melee, all for only 20 points. A bit underpointed really, but they blow Tree Revenants away. 

Shadow warriors also hae some play, with the ability to deepstrike and the fade into melee. I think the time of tree revenants is done, unfortunately. 

My bad I was thinking of shadow warriors not stalkers. 

Though double checking Shadowstalkers aren't a "LIVING CITY unit" either so they DON'T count towards the number of units you can put in ambush.  It's the only relevant reason to take them other than being a purely budgetary concern because everything else you listed is still absolutely correct about which one is better.

Edit: I should add that I max out my ambushing in my lists so it's an important difference, but I admit I also just want to use some sylvaneth too.

Edited March 29, 2021 by The Red King

[Popisdead]

11 minutes ago, Kiekeboe said:

And yep @Popisdead, they do take up one of the allies slots. But I don't think I've ever used allies in LC so that should be doable. At 100 points most people would agree they're severely undercosted.

Okay good point.  They are a bit pricey but I have so many old Wanderer models I may try to scrounge some Witch Aelf bitz and the like to build my own.  Looks like I have a hobby project for tonight

100 points is a steal.  They may change in a GHB and then the Trev argument might come back as a good comparison.  

[Kiekeboe]

35 minutes ago, Popisdead said:

Okay good point.  They are a bit pricey but I have so many old Wanderer models I may try to scrounge some Witch Aelf bitz and the like to build my own.  Looks like I have a hobby project for tonight

100 points is a steal.  They may change in a GHB and then the Trev argument might come back as a good comparison.  

I can only hope Sylvaneth gets the love they deserve. Heads up if you're going to convert a bunch: they're on 28.5mm bases (and leader on 40mm), no idea why but yeah... be aware of that if you want to use them competitively 😅

[The Red King]

I know nighthaunt aren't super competitive themselves but tree revenants teleportation to screen out deepstrike and deter charges by speed bumping was very relevant. So they're still playable if you dont have the ally points available or want to ambush more units.

[Popisdead]

22 hours ago, Kiekeboe said:

I can only hope Sylvaneth gets the love they deserve. Heads up if you're going to convert a bunch: they're on 28.5mm bases (and leader on 40mm), no idea why but yeah... be aware of that if you want to use them competitively 😅

Yeah i looked them up and noticed that.  i've heard 28 mm bases a few times and was confused.  Guess it's a thing.  I assume GW will shift away from 25 mm to get a bit more footing for their larger models as they shift into a 3rd heroic scale (28 to 30 to 32ish mm models now).

I stopped playing tournaments years ago.  One of the last AoS games I played my opponent had his CoS dragon on a 50 mm square haha.  I didn't care, it wasn't permanent.  

[KydbrookP]

Love the idea of using Shadowstalkers. I happen to own them (as I got my sons the Warcry box for Christmas and neither choose them as their warband) so inspired to add them to a list. 

How does this seem?

CITIES OF SIGMAR - LIVING CITY (2000p)

LEADERS:

Freeguild General (general) (100)
Druid of the Everspring Circle - Cage of Thorns

Battlemage Chamon (Adjutant) (110)
Ironoak Skin

Dreadlord on Black Dragon (300)
Crossbow, Lance
Spear of the Hunt

Celestial Hurricanum with Battlemage (280)
Lifesurge

Knight-Azyros (100)

BATTLELINE:

10 x Handgunners (100)
20 x Crossbowmen (200)
3 x Demigryph Knights w Halbards (180)

OTHER
4 x Concussors (440)

ALLIES
9 x Khainite Shadowstalkers (100)

Soulsnare Shackles (40)
Extra Command Point (50)

Possible plans would involve sending the Dragon and Concussors with the Hurricanum and Knight-Azyros to strike from a flank (lots of mortal wound shooting and then charge), and then the Freeguild holding the centre, and Shadowstalkers teleporting where needed. Or swap it around, and deep strike the Freeguild together.

I was thinking halbards rather than lances for the Demigryphs as the idea is to move them together with the handgunners to take an enemy charge. With the general’s command ability, the handgunners would be +1 hit and wound on their overwatch, and then I’d expect enemy to focus on killing the Demigryphs before they can attack back (hitting and wounding on 2s) potentially leaving the gunners alive for another turn, and the enemy in range of the crossbows. I tried this against a Slyvaneath army: they got charged by Durthu, the gunners bracketed him, one Demigryph survived and together they killed him the next turn, so it seemed to make a decent anvil. 

Any thoughts?

Edited March 30, 2021 by KydbrookP

[KydbrookP]

(Or, variation on the above: lose two Concussors and add ten more crossbows and handguns)

[Popisdead]

20 hours ago, KydbrookP said:

Love the idea of using Shadowstalkers. 

Hmmm this talk of Shadowstalkers has me thinking about ShadowWarriors as well with an Assassin general.  Just for theme,.. not sure it's a good idea   

[Archibald]

Hey fellas,

i just ordered the last boxes for my first 1k list. The dreadlord will be the old Malekith model. I am so excited to build this model.<3

The assassin is there because i love the model  and i want to make the warscroll work.

The plan is that ghe Dreadlord acts as my hammer and the Phoenix Guard s my anvil. The Sisters and the Handgunners harass enemy heroes and the Incantor tries to keep the dragon alive.

So what do you guys think? Any tipps or improvements?

Allegiance: Cities of Sigmar
- City: Living City

Leaders
Dreadlord on Black Dragon(300)
- General
- Lance of Spite & Repeater Crossbow
- Command Trait: Ironoak Artisan  
- Artefact: Spear of the Hunt  
Assassin (80)
Knight-Incantor (120)
- Lore of Leaves: Lifesurge

Battleline
10 x Freeguild Guard (80)
- Halberds
10 x Freeguild Handgunners(100)

Units
10 x Phoenix Guard (160)
10 x Sisters of the Watch (160)

Total: 1000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 64
 

[The Red King]

So some real life struggles left me with no painting motivation for the last few months so it isn't a big step but ita a big step for me that I finally finished one of my converted fulminators and present him now in all his painted glory (all bases will be done together at the end)

 

Unfortunately I lack the wild rider/sylvaneth bits to finish the other 4 but I have at least 1 more on the paint table now.

[KydbrookP]

5 hours ago, The Red King said:

So some real life struggles left me with no painting motivation for the last few months so it isn't a big step but ita a big step for me that I finally finished one of my converted fulminators and present him now in all his painted glory (all bases will be done together at the end)

 

Unfortunately I lack the wild rider/sylvaneth bits to finish the other 4 but I have at least 1 more on the paint table now.

Awesome work! You’ve really made these fit in Living City. I reckon it should earn you some lucky charges on the table.

[EntMan]

Quick question to show my noobness - Is a Warsong Revenant availble to my Living City as part of my Sylvaneth 1 in 4?

And if so does this mean I can now have a wizard who can cast Verdant Blessing? (Warsong's warscroll says they know all the spells from Lore of the Deepwood).

If I'm right there are lots of good implications for a Living City army being able to have more than one Wyldwood.

[The Red King]

14 minutes ago, EntMan said:

Quick question to show my noobness - Is a Warsong Revenant availble to my Living City as part of my Sylvaneth 1 in 4?

And if so does this mean I can now have a wizard who can cast Verdant Blessing? (Warsong's warscroll says they know all the spells from Lore of the Deepwood).

If I'm right there are lots of good implications for a Living City army being able to have more than one Wyldwood.

Yes and yes but sadly the spell that spawns forests isn't part of the deep wood lore. Maybe if the Sylvaneth get a new book with better spells it could be worth considering but as is that guy is way over costed and Alarielle (while also badly costed) can at least take advantage of the shoot and move command ability even if she cant deepstrike.

[EntMan]

8 minutes ago, The Red King said:

Yes and yes but sadly the spell that spawns forests isn't part of the deep wood lore. Maybe if the Sylvaneth get a new book with better spells it could be worth considering but as is that guy is way over costed and Alarielle (while also badly costed) can at least take advantage of the shoot and move command ability even if she cant deepstrike.

Thanks for the reply. My dream also got shot down on the Sylvaneth thread. Where can I find a reliable list of Lore of the Deepwood spells (I don't have the Sylvaneth Bettletome)  - my googling came up with a list which does include verdant blessing which I now gather is wrong.

Edited May 29, 2021 by EntMan