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AoS 2 - Living City Discussion


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@Popisdead yeah, it's certainly an amazing tool and has had a major impact on every game that I've played it in. The reason why I call it a mixed blessing is that it's really easy to make mistakes with it that can cost you games. The more I play it, the more I think that Living City is a very skill intensive army where the best players are going to get far better results than average players.

There are some units where the deepstrike is somewhat point and click (like dracothian guard variants or the Dreadlord on Black Dragon), although even in these situations there is a lot of variance between optimal use and making mistakes.

For slow units, on the other hand, mistakes when deepstriking can and will cost you games. It's easy to overdo it and end up with too many bodies far away from the objectives.

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On 8/13/2020 at 5:20 PM, Nezgor said:

 

Hi guys, I have two lists, which one do you like the most?

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Allegiance: Cities of Sigmar
- City: Living City
Mortal Realm: Ghyran

Leaders
Knight-Azyros (100)
Lord-Castellant (120)
Drycha Hamadreth (300)
- Lore of Leaves: Ironoak Skin
Freeguild General on Griffon (320)
- General
- Shield & Runesword
- Command Trait: Ironoak Artisan
- Artefact: Spear of the Hunt
Celestial Hurricanum With Celestial Battlemage (280)
- Lore of Leaves: Lifesurge

Battleline
10 x Freeguild Crossbowmen (100)
10 x Freeguild Crossbowmen (100)
10 x Freeguild Handgunners (100)

Units
4 x Concussors (440)
1 x Gyrobombers (80)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Emerald Lifeswarm (50)

Total: 1990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 100
 

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Allegiance: Cities of Sigmar
- City: Living City
Mortal Realm: Ghyran

Leaders
Knight-Azyros (100)
Drycha Hamadreth (300)
- Lore of Leaves: Ironoak Skin
Freeguild General on Griffon (320)
- General
- Shield & Runesword
- Command Trait: Ironoak Artisan
- Artefact: Spear of the Hunt
Celestial Hurricanum With Celestial Battlemage (280)
- Lore of Leaves: Lifesurge

Battleline
10 x Freeguild Crossbowmen (100)
10 x Freeguild Crossbowmen (100)
10 x Freeguild Handgunners (100)

Units
4 x Desolators (380)
3 x Kurnoth Hunters (190)
- Greatswords
1 x Gyrobombers (80)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Emerald Lifeswarm (50)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 109
 

Thx for the anwers.

Both of these are going to really struggle to take / hold an objective.  This is a game where you want a minimum of two 20+ size units imho.  Drop a big character or two and get some bodies on the board.

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Long time reader, first time poster. What do you think of my LC list.?

 

Allegiance: Cities of Sigmar
- City: Living City
Mortal Realm: Ghyran

Leaders
Anointed of Asuryan on Frostheart Phoenix (320)
- General
- Command Trait: Ironoak Artisan
- Artefact: Everspring Diadem
Celestial Hurricanum With Celestial Battlemage (280)
- Lore of Leaves: Cage of Thorns
Sorceress (90)
- Lore of Leaves: Lifesurge

Battleline
30 x Phoenix Guard (420)
10 x Freeguild Handgunners (100)
10 x Freeguild Handgunners (100)

Units
10 x Sisters of the Watch (160)
10 x Sisters of the Watch (160)
10 x Sisters of the Watch (160)

Behemoths
Luminark of Hysh (210)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 119
 
My idea is to have an alpha shooting list, with the 3 units of sisters + the hurricanum and luminark going into deepstrike.  on top of that i have the phoenix guards + frostheart taking objectives. hope you have some constructive comments. :)
 
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First, you need something to sacrifice to your sorceress. Second, you might want some mobility to snag cheaky objectives. The phoenix guard can only be 1 place. You might also want a screen for your sisters after they arrive. Even with stand and shoot they are still fragile.

The easiest is to just swap the handgunners for darkshards (more mobile, can be sacrificed). Alternatively drop the sorceress and upgrade the luminarch to have a wizard. Also gives you 50 points to buy some Ätherwings, again for some mobility. I really like sacrificial units to sit on objectives t1. Keeps you competitive in points without risking a more expensive piece. Tree revenants are also good for this.

 

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Making some changes to my list... 

Allegiance: Cities of Sigmar
 - City: Living City


LEADERS
Nomad Prince (120)
- General
- Command Trait : Druid of the Everspring - Lifesurge 
- Artefact : Spear of the Hunt 

Celestial Hurricanum With Celestial Battlemage (280)

Dreadlord on Black Dragon (300)

UNITS
20 x Sisters of the Watch (320)
10 x Sisters of the Watch (160)
30 x Eternal Guard (330)
3 x Akhelian Ishlaen Guard (140)
- Allies
3 x Akhelian Ishlaen Guard (140)
- Allies
3 x Aetherwings (40)


BEHEMOTHS
War Hydra (170)
 

Would appreciate any thoughts/advice. I've found a big block of EG and SotW buffed by the celestial hurricanum works well for me but perhaps I need more mobility.  I know people don't rate war hydras but I have to say mine has always done good work, it's an intimidating-looking conversion that draws attacks and with the hydras own wounds regeneration + Living City it tends to last until the end of the game. However, I am concious that if I got rid of the hydra and atherwings I'd have enough points to take a unit of shadow warriors and some outriders or something. 

Nomad prince is pretty useless, but unfortunately necessary for the batteline and with Druid of the Everspring at least it serves as a second caster. Is there a better way to go? I was previously taking 5 Sisters of the Thorn but for their points cost I always found them pretty disapointing. 

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On 8/13/2020 at 9:27 AM, swarmofseals said:

@Popisdead yeah, it's certainly an amazing tool and has had a major impact on every game that I've played it in. The reason why I call it a mixed blessing is that it's really easy to make mistakes with it that can cost you games. The more I play it, the more I think that Living City is a very skill intensive army where the best players are going to get far better results than average players.

Yup.  I'm the king of that.  Granted I think it suits me best.  It is the biggest key tool when I play AoS or 40k that makes me give pause, look at the board and think and think things through.

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  • 2 weeks later...

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This is a list I came up with a little bit ago after I found out that Greatswords had points drop, they've always been my favorite unit ever since the days of WHFB.  I've always liked the idea of ambushing handgunners.  I am considering dropping the extra command point, balewind vortex and some FGGuard to throw in a second General to ambush with the handgunners for the command ability.  I also get the feeling with how I built this list, I might be better off in a different city?  Thoughts?

 

Also posting this from work, I don't have access to the book for hero items and stuff PepeHands

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This list seems like it could use some work.

First, 3 endless spells with 2 wizards with no plus to cast is too many. Far to often you will fail to cast one or more and then just sit there with 200 pts useless after failing the first cast. The bridge especially requires a very specific plan to use, which I'm not sure you have. 

2nd, what are planning to buff with the general? The handguns are already 2+/3+ if stationary, the great swords already hit on 2s when near him and the guard are pretty bad in combat even with his buff. The general seems best with outriders or crossbows where they really want both the +1 to hit and the+1 wound and have the range to not move. Otherwise I think you may need to move forward for objectives or you will lose there.

This feels more like a tempests eye list (to get up the field and be sturdier turn 1) or hammerhead (for more command points). You only have 2 units that shoot to take advantage of the living cities command ability, and nothing worth healing. Of you do want to stay living cities, consider a general on griffon. The +1save, +1 to wound, extra rend, free healing and fight first (trait and artifact) together all really make him excellent in living cities. Alternatively, if you like the wizards and endless spells, get a hurricanum and consider hallowheart. Your list would fit really well there and hurricanums are awesome in most cities lists.

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On 8/27/2020 at 12:38 PM, Frowny said:

This list seems like it could use some work.

First, 3 endless spells with 2 wizards with no plus to cast is too many. Far to often you will fail to cast one or more and then just sit there with 200 pts useless after failing the first cast. The bridge especially requires a very specific plan to use, which I'm not sure you have. 

2nd, what are planning to buff with the general? The handguns are already 2+/3+ if stationary, the great swords already hit on 2s when near him and the guard are pretty bad in combat even with his buff. The general seems best with outriders or crossbows where they really want both the +1 to hit and the+1 wound and have the range to not move. Otherwise I think you may need to move forward for objectives or you will lose there.

This feels more like a tempests eye list (to get up the field and be sturdier turn 1) or hammerhead (for more command points). You only have 2 units that shoot to take advantage of the living cities command ability, and nothing worth healing. Of you do want to stay living cities, consider a general on griffon. The +1save, +1 to wound, extra rend, free healing and fight first (trait and artifact) together all really make him excellent in living cities. Alternatively, if you like the wizards and endless spells, get a hurricanum and consider hallowheart. Your list would fit really well there and hurricanums are awesome in most cities lists.

Fair points.  I Probably will swap over to Hallowheart, as Magic is my favorite thing in Warhammer, although I'm gonna look at Hurricanum alternative models, as I really, really hate that model lol

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3 hours ago, cyberhawk94 said:

Hey all, working on a Wanderers bow-heavy LC list, need a combat unit for when things get to close that doesn't need much support from CP and such. Eternal Guard, Wildwood Rangers, or Kurnoth Hunters w/ GS? And what unit size works best? 

Probably a couple units of eternal guard to act as anvils otherwise the wild riders or Wildwood rangers pack punch but will fall over to a slight breeze

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Hi guys,

Stormcast player here who are looking at perhaps starting a CoS army because well, CoS is just better and have more fun rules!

Been thinking about where to start and living city just seems so nice. I’ve been looking for a reason to buy Dracothian Guard (Fulminators/Concussors etc), since I have a Lord Celestant on Stardrake which pairs really nicely if you manage to get them into combat with what you want (which is harder in Stormcast than Living city). 

So I wanna theorycraft a list with 4 concussors and a stardrake. I’m especially having issues with deciding on what kind of battleline to take in CoS since you have sooo many options. 

So far all I’ve gathered is that a Hurricanum w a battlemage is more or less a must. I’d love a General on Griffon, but I guess it won’t really fit. 

What are my best options to fill out a list that focuses around 4 concussors + Lord celestant on stardrake (grand total of 940 p for these 2 units)? One issue im seeing is the potential for running out of CPs since I’d need 1 for strike and melt away and 1 for the stardrakes command ability to reroll wound rolls on the dracoths. 

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I think the living city rules have a lot of legs in competitive play, I’m trying to hone down my choices so far in practice games I’ve been taking:

 

nomad prince, sorceress, drakesworn Templar

2 scourgerunner, shadow warriors, greatswords, irondrakes, aetherwings, ballista, 2x10 wild riders, sis of the thorn, Flame Phoenix

Swords, geminids, extra CP

The drakesworn is a great pick for the living city, tough made tougher by healing, decent combat, rain of stars for reach, bow to take advantage of the CA and I usually give it the spear, so much utility in one model

I think the prime is a good piece as an ally but would need to rebuild the whole list and I’m tempted to squeeze in a gyro or two to deal with hordes swifter.

 

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 8/29/2020 at 1:16 PM, The Red King said:

My current project is converting a "plant zombie dragon" (think golgari) to match my plant skeletons for my living city. Gonna run him with a wood elf waystrider on top as a dreadlord on black dragon.

Wanted to share some WIP pics cause he's just coming along so well!

Thanks for sharing, pretty cool.  Back in 2005 I picked up a Bretonnian battalion and made "undead bretonians" but the spites were what raised the bodies in mischievous ways.  And the Lady of the Lake summoned them to fight since she was Fey it worked.

On 8/30/2020 at 4:07 PM, cyberhawk94 said:

Hey all, working on a Wanderers bow-heavy LC list, need a combat unit for when things get to close that doesn't need much support from CP and such. Eternal Guard, Wildwood Rangers, or Kurnoth Hunters w/ GS? And what unit size works best? 

EG in 20 man are pretty good holding an objective.  30 will be really tanky but anything anti-horde will remove at a disadvantageous cost.  If you used KHs I would bring them in to fight not hold.  Personally I like the idea of using all Wanderer for fluff over a mix.  As mentioned Rangers die to a stiff breeze so you want them to fight.  I'm honestly torn on 10 man vs 20 or 30 cause you pay for wounds at that point but get a 2" reach which is really good.  20 Rangers probably isn't a bad starting point as is 20 EG.  

However in this thread there was a really good analysis of a combat threat.  Black Dragon is one but odd.  I don't feel it's really a huge threat personally and I've had Wild Riders take one down when facing it.  

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I have some questions as I am new to CoS living City.

My Sylvaneth units get the extra spell from the living city spells right not the sylvaneth ones ?

What if I have 4 wizards and there is only 3 spells available fron the living city spells ?

Also Can My drycha/Allarielle cast Sylvaneth endless spells ?

Best regards

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12 hours ago, SoSoCho said:

I have some questions as I am new to CoS living City.

My Sylvaneth units get the extra spell from the living city spells right not the sylvaneth ones ?

What if I have 4 wizards and there is only 3 spells available fron the living city spells ?

Also Can My drycha/Allarielle cast Sylvaneth endless spells ?

Best regards

1. Yes if they are taken as part of the (1 in 4 sylvaneth units) that Living city let's you bring than for all game purposes they are Living cities. Note you can only bring 1 in 4 sylvaneth units. Living city can't ally Sylvaneth.

 

2. If you have 4 wizards than two of them are gonna get the same spell. Giving the spell to one caster doesnt take it off the list. Note you can still only try to cast any given spell one time a turn so if you have to double up put it on someone who's warscroll spell you probably want to cast regularly.

 

3. Sylvaneth wizards can cast sylvaneth endless spells yes. ONLY  the sylvaneth wizards can try to cast sylvaneth endless spells though so keep that in mind.

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 8/9/2020 at 5:11 PM, swarmofseals said:

A lot has changed in the last year both in terms of the meta and in terms of my own experience. The more games I play, the more I realize that deepstriking using the LC ability is a mixed blessing. Usually I can completely annihilate part of the opponent's army with my shooting, but doing so leaves a large part of my army way out of position (especially if you deploy on one of the side edges of the board). Often times you are then forced to move (or even run) your shooters just to get them in range of another target. With SotW, if you are moving you also are losing half of your offense.

The Anointed on Frostheart is legitimately tanky, but the other two behemoths will die quickly to any real offense. A charge from something like eels, hearthguard, Witch Aelves, Brutes/Ardboys, stonehorns, greatswords, Mortek Guard, etc. etc. will easily kill your tanky behemoths (except possibly the phoenix). For example, against hearthguard even if your opponent doesn't have a CP to make the hearthguard fight first and the tree stomp goes off and the hearthguard have no buffs aside from the ones on their own warscroll:

Treelord activates and deals a total of 4.25 unsaved wounds to the hearthguard, killing two guys (this includes the Treelord shooting attack btw). The hearthguard activate pile in, say, 10 guys. They deal a total of 9.33 unsaved wounds to the Treelord with broadaxes or 10.11 unsaved wounds with poleaxes. If closer to the entire unit piles in or they have any buffs at all the Treelord is a dead duck in one go.

Even if the hearthguard just sat there taking it and never got to activate it would take the treelord 10 activations to wipe the unit out, or just over 7 activations to reduce the unit below 6 models such that the Treelord AND a unit of Sisters of the Thorn could gain control of the objective.

There are a lot of units in the game right now that put loads of defensively efficient wounds on the board, and in my experience lists like this just won't work in that context.

Well, this reply is quite late (partially because I was trying to write quite a long post on my phone and it got nuked 2 times, so I gave up for a while), but here it is anyway. 

The thing is, I understand that Living City is an army of disruption, opportunities and exploiting enemy weak points with a little bit of atrition on top. I’m not planning on getting all of my troops on the contested objective and fighting over it. Instead, I have an array of options on how and when to engage the enemy, hugely depending on the battleplan, enemy composition and deployment.  

So lets imagine that I’m fighting pretty much the most defensive and slowest faction the game with the most defensive (Hermdar) lodge with Hearthguard Berzerkers spam. And I’m given the first turn (although it may be more beneficient for my opponent to take first turn instead in some cases, but it all depends). So, what can I do? 

Well, if my opponent does not screen all too well, I can deploy one or both of my Sisters on the most vunerable flank turn 1, snipe all the heroes within 10 of one Hearthguard unit (preferably if they are out or range of the general command trait, or, well, I’d have to focus the general first), probably get some extra shots on Hearthguard, and only then move in the Treelord for the block or cleaning up. Considering that on turn 1 units on the flank are not wholly within 12 of the objective on most battleplans, the battleshock can also be a big factor. So, for example, if I would be against 20 model unit of Hearthguard Berzerkers and I would need to kill only 2 foot heroes within 10 of them, then with average rolls and battleshock present I can almost wipe out them all in the first turn with 40 Sisters and 1 Treelord. And with a bit of lucky rolls it's more than possible to wipe them out completely. And that’s 600-640 points destroyed versus 820 of mine suffering no losses yet (only some wounds on a Treelord) But, well, that’s the best case scenario. I would still need to move my units in position to shoot after that, but Sisters of the watch are not Irondrakes or even Handgunners. Depending on the situation, they can move 6 or 12 while still shooting or 6+D6 with running. And the same thing goes for my opponent btw. He needs to move his very slow force to the middle to meet me, but he has to leave something behind. And it can be a lot, especially if I still have a Dragon in the deepstrike reserve and some Sisters of the Thorn prancing with their Javelins nearby. 

But what if my opponent screens well and won’t give me an option to overload a flank?  That means that his force is pretty spread out and all too well positioned to rush for objectives with its 4(6) move. So I can just grab all free objectives, probably even block Berzerkers from getting on the objective in one turn by pretty wide Sisters of the Thorn bases (Deer Crescent screening activated!) and frost birb suicide charge (preferably with +2 save in Chamon and -2 to wound in melee, making birb almost immune to everything besides MW spam and a lot of Auric Hearthguard). Or I can even barely grab an objective with Sisters bases and make dorfs run for it for 2 turns. And then I can deploy both of my Sisters of the Watch at a safe range and shoot away for pretty much free (or just keep them in reserve still and wait for an opening anyway). Behemoth in reserve will come charging turn 2 or 3 depending on the situation. Sure this one is more of a general direction than a plan, but that's the Living City way, searching for an opportunity in a lot of different battleplans or situations. 

Honestly though, the thing I'm afraid the most is Phoenix Guard with Annointed nearby. Sure PG are less tanky than Berzerkers point for point, but there is no easy way to go around their tankiness and battleshock immunity, and so alpha striking them is not really going to work. 

And yea, I do not take Treelord as a killer here. While his damage and tankiness are actually quite respectable for his cost, his main role is to be a distraction carnifex in the enemy flank/backline (disrupting ranged untis or disabling most teleport abilities or spells by combat) or much more often just a screen for my Sisters of the Watch.  

P.S. I do vaguely remember reading about that somewhere, but I still don't get how Treelord stomp works versus Always Fights First. By logic they just cancel each other out, but it does not work that way, right?

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@Icefighter and I where having a conversation about Living Cities. We both love the Dreadlord on Black dragon model. Sadly no more sword of judgement. 

But how can we have the most fun with that model in a Cities list?

What are your thoughts? What seems good and fun with the new ghb? I haven't played Cities since the new edition, so I have some thoughts but would like to look to brighter minds first. 

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