AoS 2 - Living City Discussion

[Izotzuhure]

Quick silly question, can Allariele use Hidden Paths? I'm asking this because her base is 6,5" and technically you need to be wholly within 6" of the edge. 

[readercolin]

6 hours ago, Izotzuhure said:

Quick silly question, can Allariele use Hidden Paths? I'm asking this because her base is 6,5" and technically you need to be wholly within 6" of the edge. 

Going by the rules listed for meeting engagements, if the model's base size is too large to fit into the deployment zone, then it should go in up to 6" and then "hang off the table edge" for the rest of it.

Realistically, I don't see how anyone would complain about you having Allariele on the hidden paths, and if they do complain about that, they probably aren't the type of person you want to play with anyways.

[amsoly]

On the opposing side of the hidden paths argument - could the 6” also be intended to avoid any absolutely monstrous units from sneaking/flanking?

i see both sides and would play either to be honest. I could see playing it and if it really feels too much then just make an agreement with that opponent/gaming group. 

[ZLee Syn]

8 hours ago, Izotzuhure said:

Quick silly question, can Allariele use Hidden Paths? I'm asking this because her base is 6,5" and technically you need to be wholly within 6" of the edge. 

In normal game,  there is no rule like the one written above. That means you will never be able to deploy her.

If your opponents allow it then go for it. But you cannot be suprised if he/she doesnt. If you tried to do this on tournament, I would first warn you and If you still did it then I woukd call a judge once you would try to pull her out. I am sure he/she would rule in my favor.

 

If that was random mechanic (like a battleplan: when deploying a unit roll a dice,if result is 1 then the unit is inreserve and arrives in your second movement phase...)  i wouldnt have a problem. But you know that you cannot fit her yet you expect that oponent would be ok with that. This feels like a small cheating.

As amsoly said. It is a small nerf to big models. Dont know why it is ok to ignore this nerf

[amsoly]

Anyone try using a treelord ancient, durthu, and a branchwraith in a list yet?  Could be tricky to make full use of the wood but potential +2 attacks for durthu or the dryad battery could be useful.  (Thinking 2k)

 

I haven’t played the branchwraith before and a 7 isn’t going to go off every turn but pulling more units onto the board could be super helpful. 

[Landohammer]

1 hour ago, amsoly said:

Anyone try using a treelord ancient, durthu, and a branchwraith in a list yet?  Could be tricky to make full use of the wood but potential +2 attacks for durthu or the dryad battery could be useful.  (Thinking 2k)

 

I haven’t played the branchwraith before and a 7 isn’t going to go off every turn but pulling more units onto the board could be super helpful. 

Do note that Verdant Blessing is not an allegiance spell. All Sylvan wizards just know it. So you wouldn't necessarily need the Treelord ancient to get forests on the table. A branchwraith could do it on it's own!

11 hours ago, Izotzuhure said:

Quick silly question, can Allariele use Hidden Paths? I'm asking this because her base is 6,5" and technically you need to be wholly within 6" of the edge. 

Unfortunately not.  "Wholly within" has been clarified in the FAQ and its pretty clear cut. 

Alarielle actually runs into a lot of trouble with her 6.25 base. She can't fit wholly within a typical citadel wood and she is also too large to benefit from the Gladewyrm, which is a Sylvaneth Endless spell! 🤦‍♂️

I'm not sure if its intentional or an oversight, but RAW its crystal clear.😥

[Izotzuhure]

I imagined but I had to ask in case there was anything somewhere. I didn't realise that the worm doesn't work on her either, which is rather, I guess, silly. Buy, hey, that's RAW so nothing to do. 

[The Red King]

On 11/29/2019 at 8:08 AM, Raffonerd said:

Plus on top of it the "nerf" of eternal guards it is hard do deal with for a pure wanderers army

Okay I've looked all over. What nerf? They only got better in the new book and havent been changed since?

[amsoly]

3 minutes ago, The Red King said:

Okay I've looked all over. What nerf? They only got better in the new book and havent been changed since?

I think most folks are referring to them being a 70 point unit before cities?

 

7 hours ago, Landohammer said:

Do note that Verdant Blessing is not an allegiance spell. All Sylvan wizards just know it. So you wouldn't necessarily need the Treelord ancient to get forests on the table. A branchwraith could do it on it's own!

Unfortunately not.  "Wholly within" has been clarified in the FAQ and its pretty clear cut. 

Alarielle actually runs into a lot of trouble with her 6.25 base. She can't fit wholly within a typical citadel wood and she is also too large to benefit from the Gladewyrm, which is a Sylvaneth Endless spell! 🤦‍♂️

I'm not sure if its intentional or an oversight, but RAW its crystal clear.😥

great insights. 
 

I need to read/get the new sylvaneth book I was under the impression the only way to sneak some woods on would be an ancient this could be very interesting (though often unlikely). 

[The Red King]

1 hour ago, amsoly said:

I think most folks are referring to them being a 70 point unit before cities?

I mean they definitely went up in points but against non rending units they're an absolute brick wall. The change to their fortress of boughs from "didn't move in the last movement phase" to "didn't move this turn" means they will almost always be getting that buff. Terrain or the discounted sisters of the thorn turn them into a 2+ bouncing mortals on 6's. If you look at those two as a package they actually got 20 points cheaper (for a 10/5 split)

 

Looking at them with their buff active (which again it will always be unless you charge or get charged on your turn after moving?) Then they've got 21 attacks at 2+/3+/-/1 and a 3+ save at worst. That's a fairly elite unit for a 130 point battleline. They're probably in general not as good as Pheonix guard but comparing them against sequitors they're only marginally less killy while being more durable and better at area and objective control.

I for one don't consider them nerfed because I like my elves to be expensive and good rather than chaff.

[GlitzFan]

Hey guys, first post in this sub-forum. I have recently purchased my living cities army which I have posted below. 
So excited to paint these up in a forest green theme and put effort into the bases and play my first game with them. 
I have no specific questions, just wanted to post here and thought it may add to some of the awesome discussions we have had thus far. 

Allegiance: Cities of Sigmar
- City: Living City
Mortal Realm: Ghyran

Leaders
Anointed of Asuryan on Frostheart Phoenix (320)
- General
- Trait: Ironoak Artisan
- Artefact: Jade Diadem
Celestial Hurricanum With Celestial Battlemage (280)
- Spell: Lore of Leaves - Ironoak Skin (Living City Wizard)
Battlemage (90)
- Spell: Lore of Leaves - Lifesurge (Living City Wizard)
- Mortal Realm: Hysh
Warden King (110)

Battleline
30 x Ironbreakers (330)
10 x Freeguild Crossbowmen (100)
10 x Freeguild Crossbowmen (100)

Units
20 x Sisters of the Watch (320)
10 x Shadow Warriors (110)
2 x Concussors (240)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 123
 

[Raffonerd]

5 hours ago, The Red King said:

I mean they definitely went up in points but against non rending units they're an absolute brick wall. The change to their fortress of boughs from "didn't move in the last movement phase" to "didn't move this turn" means they will almost always be getting that buff. Terrain or the discounted sisters of the thorn turn them into a 2+ bouncing mortals on 6's. If you look at those two as a package they actually got 20 points cheaper (for a 10/5 split)

 

Looking at them with their buff active (which again it will always be unless you charge or get charged on your turn after moving?) Then they've got 21 attacks at 2+/3+/-/1 and a 3+ save at worst. That's a fairly elite unit for a 130 point battleline. They're probably in general not as good as Pheonix guard but comparing them against sequitors they're only marginally less killy while being more durable and better at area and objective control.

I for one don't consider them nerfed because I like my elves to be expensive and good rather than chaff.

Yeah, but all of this is not worth a 2x in point cost. Anyway we cannot do anything about that

I'm going to try this:

Wanderers - > Rules

Waywatcher    120 - Genral Stalker
SpellWeaver    100
Strider    80 - Forget me not
Prince    120 ethereal amulet
Wayfinder    80
    
Sisters of Thorn    130
Wild Riders    130
Eternal Guards    260
Glade Guards    240
Sisters of Watch    320
Glade Guards    240
 
Waystone    160
    
Total    1980
 

Living city is not for wanderers!

Edited December 3, 2019 by Raffonerd

[Namelessone81]

6 hours ago, The Red King said:

I mean they definitely went up in points but against non rending units they're an absolute brick wall. The change to their fortress of boughs from "didn't move in the last movement phase" to "didn't move this turn" means they will almost always be getting that buff. Terrain or the discounted sisters of the thorn turn them into a 2+ bouncing mortals on 6's. If you look at those two as a package they actually got 20 points cheaper (for a 10/5 split)

 

Looking at them with their buff active (which again it will always be unless you charge or get charged on your turn after moving?) Then they've got 21 attacks at 2+/3+/-/1 and a 3+ save at worst. That's a fairly elite unit for a 130 point battleline. They're probably in general not as good as Pheonix guard but comparing them against sequitors they're only marginally less killy while being more durable and better at area and objective control.

I for one don't consider them nerfed because I like my elves to be expensive and good rather than chaff.

Isn’t piling in considered a “move” ? 
cause if they only lose their buff on a charge or normal move/run then they are way better than most battlines  

[The Red King]

Ah yes and piling in. 2 inch weapons hdlpbhere though. 

[Raffonerd]

1 hour ago, The Red King said:

Ah yes and piling in. 2 inch weapons hdlpbhere though. 

Also selecting them after all. 

Cause you can benefit from the +1 ts, then you pail in and thent you stand there till last.

[The Red King]

7 minutes ago, Raffonerd said:

Cause you can benefit from the +1 ts, then you pail in and thent you stand there till last.

An excellent point as well since the enemy is charging you they're probably going first anyway. Now a very canny opponent will consider this when picking his own activation order but the more choices you present your opponent the more chance he has to make the wrong one.

[Raffonerd]

15 minutes ago, The Red King said:

An excellent point as well since the enemy is charging you they're probably going first anyway. Now a very canny opponent will consider this when picking his own activation order but the more choices you present your opponent the more chance he has to make the wrong one.

As long as combat is between 2+ units, you will always able to do what I've sayed in your opponent turn.  But rember that this is not a rule. Selecting before your opponent is better 80% of the time.

Edited December 3, 2019 by Raffonerd

[overtninja]

@amsoly For most lists, a single 5-man unit of SotT is good. They work really well with EG, and not so well with much else, unless you are using them as a 130-point very mobile wizard, in which case they are good for that (particularly for Hallowheart.) Otherwise, I love Wild Riders and would build 5 or 10 of them. Sadly, because of various shared parts, it's tricky to build a unit of Wild Riders and SotT that you can swap torsos and run as either, but it could be done if you don't mind a good deal of customizing and fiddling.

You've got a whole lot of options for melee units in a CoS army, so it's a matter of preferred style of play, micro-faction, aesthetic, or slight advantage in a particular area over another - more offense less defence, more bodies for price, better rend, more access to appealing hero buffs, the appeal of the models, or other factors.

Personally, as an old Wood Elf player, for melee units I absolutely love Wildwood Rangers. They seem like a bad buy, but a unit of 20 can absolutely trash any monster they come upon in a single round of combat, and often still have the numbers to tear into another right after and take it out with help. For general purpose I've found Kurnoth Hunters to be the most appealing for me - I own a bunch already, for one, and I love how durable and punchy they are for their price.

EG are a good option if you want a semi-mobile living wall that will never yield an objective, but after some play I think the EG/SotT combo is more appealing for City allegiances that aren't as proactive and ambush-focused as Living City is. In larger games they'll find their way to my lists, but otherwise I'll take WWR for monster hunting, Kurnoth for being all-around fantastic, and Spite-Revenants for a big blob of spooky bodies.

 

[The Red King]

I love Kurnoth hunters and already own 12 but part of me really wants to try a phoenix in their place as the list has enough healing to keep him pumping out 5 MWs with his flyby attack every turn.

Edited December 3, 2019 by The Red King

[Aelfric]

15 minutes ago, xking said:

You can only be from  Ghyran.

Not sure what you mean - he states Ghyran at the top of his list and I can't see anything that contradicts that in his list.  Can you elucidate?

[Aelfric]

14 hours ago, GlitzFan said:

- Artefact: Jade Diadem

Nice looking list - I've been considering Concussors for deep-striking myself.  Not sure if you are aware, but the Jade Diadem was changed in the Malign Sorcery FAQ to only work on an unmodified save roll of 6, not a 6+, so Ironoak Artisan doesn't buff it.  Thought about this too until it was pointed out to me.

[amsoly]

5 hours ago, overtninja said:

@amsoly For most lists, a single 5-man unit of SotT is good. They work really well with EG, and not so well with much else, unless you are using them as a 130-point very mobile wizard, in which case they are good for that (particularly for Hallowheart.) Otherwise, I love Wild Riders and would build 5 or 10 of them. Sadly, because of various shared parts, it's tricky to build a unit of Wild Riders and SotT that you can swap torsos and run as either, but it could be done if you don't mind a good deal of customizing and fiddling.

You've got a whole lot of options for melee units in a CoS army, so it's a matter of preferred style of play, micro-faction, aesthetic, or slight advantage in a particular area over another - more offense less defence, more bodies for price, better rend, more access to appealing hero buffs, the appeal of the models, or other factors.

Personally, as an old Wood Elf player, for melee units I absolutely love Wildwood Rangers. They seem like a bad buy, but a unit of 20 can absolutely trash any monster they come upon in a single round of combat, and often still have the numbers to tear into another right after and take it out with help. For general purpose I've found Kurnoth Hunters to be the most appealing for me - I own a bunch already, for one, and I love how durable and punchy they are for their price.

EG are a good option if you want a semi-mobile living wall that will never yield an objective, but after some play I think the EG/SotT combo is more appealing for City allegiances that aren't as proactive and ambush-focused as Living City is. In larger games they'll find their way to my lists, but otherwise I'll take WWR for monster hunting, Kurnoth for being all-around fantastic, and Spite-Revenants for a big blob of spooky bodies.

 

I wish I liked the wildwood rangers but they’ve sadly never appealed to me.  

 

I have an old forest dragon I’ve been working on so figure I’ll use Phoenix guard (dragon guard 🐉) as my melee anvil and roll with wild riders over sisters of the thorn. 
 

Love Kurnoths and have 3 swords, 3 bows, and 3 unbuilt so have been playing around with lists including them (even some lists with a tree revenant and the wardroth horn to really bring some pain). Leaning toward the other 3 as swords to have the option for 6 in a squad (abuse that 1/4 rule). 
 

Has anyone had success with a branchwraith to summon trees and dryads?  Seems like it might be too many casts to really be dependable but that’d be handy to have on a flank. 

[GlitzFan]

5 hours ago, Aelfric said:

Nice looking list - I've been considering Concussors for deep-striking myself.  Not sure if you are aware, but the Jade Diadem was changed in the Malign Sorcery FAQ to only work on an unmodified save roll of 6, not a 6+, so Ironoak Artisan doesn't buff it.  Thought about this too until it was pointed out to me.

I know this. I think the unmodified 6 is amazing!

[Raffonerd]

17 hours ago, overtninja said:

@amsoly For most lists, a single 5-man unit of SotT is good. They work really well with EG, and not so well with much else, unless you are using them as a 130-point very mobile wizard, in which case they are good for that (particularly for Hallowheart.) Otherwise, I love Wild Riders and would build 5 or 10 of them. Sadly, because of various shared parts, it's tricky to build a unit of Wild Riders and SotT that you can swap torsos and run as either, but it could be done if you don't mind a good deal of customizing and fiddling.

You've got a whole lot of options for melee units in a CoS army, so it's a matter of preferred style of play, micro-faction, aesthetic, or slight advantage in a particular area over another - more offense less defence, more bodies for price, better rend, more access to appealing hero buffs, the appeal of the models, or other factors.

Personally, as an old Wood Elf player, for melee units I absolutely love Wildwood Rangers. They seem like a bad buy, but a unit of 20 can absolutely trash any monster they come upon in a single round of combat, and often still have the numbers to tear into another right after and take it out with help. For general purpose I've found Kurnoth Hunters to be the most appealing for me - I own a bunch already, for one, and I love how durable and punchy they are for their price.

EG are a good option if you want a semi-mobile living wall that will never yield an objective, but after some play I think the EG/SotT combo is more appealing for City allegiances that aren't as proactive and ambush-focused as Living City is. In larger games they'll find their way to my lists, but otherwise I'll take WWR for monster hunting, Kurnoth for being all-around fantastic, and Spite-Revenants for a big blob of spooky bodies.

 

They would have been good at 300 x 30 mondels.

As for now, i don't really see an advantage in playing living city for wanderers units. Living city is good only for dark elfs: sorceress, running chariots, frost phoenix.  Other stuff is just: meh! no point efficient units + mid/low rank ruling.

Please check the real living city here: 

 

Edited December 4, 2019 by Raffonerd

[Aelfric]

6 hours ago, Raffonerd said:

They would have been good at 300 x 30 mondels.

As for now, i don't really see an advantage in playing living city for wanderers units. Living city is good only for dark elfs: sorceress, running chariots, frost phoenix.  Other stuff is just: meh! no point efficient units + mid/low rank ruling.

Please check the real living city here: 

 

Wanderers look as though they could do well in Tempest Eye.  You can also get the feel of hidden paths using Shadow Warriors, for which I have my Glade Guard as proxy.