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AoS 2 - Living City Discussion


AthelLoren

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49 minutes ago, Furythrow2 said:

@Sethiris if you're planning to use the freeguild guard just for board control I don't know if upgrading them to bleakswords would be worth it.

As for taking the crossbow on the dreadlord, I think the only way it's better than the shield is if you're using it with the command ability to get the easy charge from outflanking.

I know, they're pretty much the same (+1 move and bravery) but what else can I do with 30 points? 😅

Yeah, but then it'll be out of range of the Phoenix aura, which would be unfortunate. So I think I'll play it safe with a shield instead. But that's what play testing is for! :D

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3 minutes ago, Sethiris said:

I know, they're pretty much the same (+1 move and bravery) but what else can I do with 30 points? 😅

Yeah, but then it'll be out of range of the Phoenix aura, which would be unfortunate. So I think I'll play it safe with a shield instead. But that's what play testing is for! :D

Honestly if you have the extra points then yeah why not use a better unit, unless you're missing other synergies.

You're right though, play test and tell us how it goes!

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7 hours ago, Sethiris said:

Another would be to drop the Stardrake, but getting something with 2+ save and a shooting attack is rare. So I won't really have anything to move, save for the Sisters and the Hurricanum.

I have considered taking a Drakesworn Templar and a unit of Concussors (who also have a shooting attack) and deepstriking both together for a 3" inch charge.  The shooting attack of the Templar gives the Concussors +1 to hit the target unit if it hits.  I've even considered a unit of 4, which would be 940 points for the 2 units, but would pack a pretty good punch and be fairly durable.  The sad fact, though, is that I do not have any of these models and it would be a long-term project to get them on the table.  I may start with 2 Concussors and try them with my Dreadlord on Black Dragon with crossbow, which I already have.

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So I tried it yesterday. Met one of the most competitive players at the club. He played a Hallowheart list which utterly destroyed me 😅

Conclusion: Mortal wounds are really dangerous to a monster list. And then of course the elemental cyclone meant one of my units was at least halved per turn. I couldn't stop any spells as he had +7 on casting rolls and the spell portal was the real killer. I have a feeling that they didn't really consider the endless spells and malign sorcery artefacts when they balanced Cities.

Looking at several meta lists today (hallowheart, legions of nagash, legion of grief, slaanesh, khorne, ossiarch bonereapers and tzeentch to name a few), they all have one thing in common. Key characters that hide behind large screens and need to be sniped. And magic tends not to suffice as many of them ignore spells or mortal wounds.

The answer? Probably just Longstrike Crossbows or something similar to be honest. Shadow Warriors should do a good job at sniping characters with a 2+ to hit in cover as well. Sisters of the Watch are really solid shooters but are extremely fragile and struggle with mobility. Therefore they need a delivery system to get in range (deep strike or Soulscream Bridge) 

I do think that Scourgerunner Chariots would work well here, but they are extremely costly money-wise as a 150 pt unit will set you back about 80 quid. Fielding 5-6 units of these would cost you an arm and a leg. And I don't even want to think about transporting 15-18 120x92mm bases. 😵

Another unit we might want to consider including to counter those really impactful spells would be the Knight-Incantor. Shutting down a portal could save you up to 20 models or a key monster. That is hundreds of points.

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45 minutes ago, Furythrow2 said:

@Sethiris Honestly if it was a really stompy battle I'd give it some time before you make any dramatic changes to the list. If you get the chance to try it a few more times you might spot units that are consistently weak or whether they just had a bad match up 

You're right. I probably need to get used to playing it before dumping the idea :P

But I did notice that I had a limited amount of offensive power. Perhaps the Hurricanum is just too much of a points sink. I'm thinking just 1 caster and either phoenix or stardrake, not both. Or just a Black Dragon with Crossbow. Then a(nother) dragon (black with crossbow) and more shooting or mobile units. and of course a second command point. I have been contemplating the Penumbral Engine, but it might just be too much points. :/ 

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34 minutes ago, Sethiris said:

You're right. I probably need to get used to playing it before dumping the idea :P

But I did notice that I had a limited amount of offensive power. Perhaps the Hurricanum is just too much of a points sink. I'm thinking just 1 caster and either phoenix or stardrake, not both. Or just a Black Dragon with Crossbow. Then a(nother) dragon (black with crossbow) and more shooting or mobile units. and of course a second command point. I have been contemplating the Penumbral Engine, but it might just be too much points.

Maybe you could shuffle the big monsters around/ try some others and see what gives the most punch. I think the hurricanum is probably a big force multiplier so I'd be wary of dropping it. Maybe you could run the version without the character wizard? I'm not sure if the penumbral engine is the answer to lacking punch though.

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7 hours ago, Sethiris said:

So I tried it yesterday. Met one of the most competitive players at the club. He played a Hallowheart list which utterly destroyed me 😅

Conclusion: Mortal wounds are really dangerous to a monster list. And then of course the elemental cyclone meant one of my units was at least halved per turn. I couldn't stop any spells as he had +7 on casting rolls and the spell portal was the real killer. I have a feeling that they didn't really consider the endless spells and malign sorcery artefacts when they balanced Cities.

Looking at several meta lists today (hallowheart, legions of nagash, legion of grief, slaanesh, khorne, ossiarch bonereapers and tzeentch to name a few), they all have one thing in common. Key characters that hide behind large screens and need to be sniped. And magic tends not to suffice as many of them ignore spells or mortal wounds.

The answer? Probably just Longstrike Crossbows or something similar to be honest. Shadow Warriors should do a good job at sniping characters with a 2+ to hit in cover as well. Sisters of the Watch are really solid shooters but are extremely fragile and struggle with mobility. Therefore they need a delivery system to get in range (deep strike or Soulscream Bridge) 

I do think that Scourgerunner Chariots would work well here, but they are extremely costly money-wise as a 150 pt unit will set you back about 80 quid. Fielding 5-6 units of these would cost you an arm and a leg. And I don't even want to think about transporting 15-18 120x92mm bases. 😵

Another unit we might want to consider including to counter those really impactful spells would be the Knight-Incantor. Shutting down a portal could save you up to 20 models or a key monster. That is hundreds of points.

Sorry for bugging. As I know you said you just got destroyed by a Hallowheart list - but can you share what his list was roughly made out of?

EDIT: In regards to the Spell Portal, you can only cast 1 spell per turn through it. Was it really that destructive with only one spell going through it?

Edited by Rune
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14 hours ago, Rune said:

Sorry for bugging. As I know you said you just got destroyed by a Hallowheart list - but can you share what his list was roughly made out of?

EDIT: In regards to the Spell Portal, you can only cast 1 spell per turn through it. Was it really that destructive with only one spell going through it?

Sure,

 

It was 5 casters (3 battlemages, one with ignax scales and then 2 sorceresses) 
A fleetmaster general
40+20+20 corsairs
and 30 phoenix guard

The thing that kills is elemental cyclone. Rolls as many dice as there are models in a unit, on a 4+ it does a mortal wound. That effectively halves a unit per turn. In this game, it killed a whole unit per turn because he got lucky with the dice rolls and I didn't have any battleshock immunity.

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1 hour ago, Sethiris said:


The thing that kills is elemental cyclone. Rolls as many dice as there are models in a unit, on a 4+ it does a mortal wound. That effectively halves a unit per turn. In this game, it killed a whole unit per turn because he got lucky with the dice rolls and I didn't have any battleshock immunity.

It's within 12" though, put I guess with 5 caster it difficult to guess which one is going to cast it? Or was he casting it though a spell portal or balewind?

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18 hours ago, Furythrow2 said:

Maybe you could shuffle the big monsters around/ try some others and see what gives the most punch. I think the hurricanum is probably a big force multiplier so I'd be wary of dropping it. Maybe you could run the version without the character wizard? I'm not sure if the penumbral engine is the answer to lacking punch though.

You're right. The engine would just be a points sink. That is more if we really need the cp. But hopefully, one extra will suffice. Another option is of course to go for a general on foot and have a 50% chance of an extra. If you're running two dragons, that cp can be used to give them +1 on wound rolls. They need the hit modifier more, but it's still something. 

Something like this then maybe?

Spoiler

Allegiance: Cities of Sigmar
- City: Living City
Dreadlord on Black Dragon (300)
- Lance of Spite & Repeater Crossbow
- Artefact: Spear of the Hunt
Dreadlord on Black Dragon (300)
- Lance of Spite & Repeater Crossbow
Celestial Hurricanum With Celestial Battlemage (280)
- Spell: Lore of Leaves - Cage of Thorns (Living City Wizard)
Nomad Prince (120)
- General
- Trait: Druid of the Everspring - Ironoak Skin
Knight-Incantor (140)
- Spell: Lore of Leaves - Lifesurge (Living City Wizard)
- City Role: General's Adjutant (Must be 6 wounds or less)
20 x Sisters of the Watch (320)
10 x Sisters of the Watch (160)
10 x Sisters of the Watch (160)
- City Role: Honoured Retinue (Must be 5-20 models)
3 x Vanguard-Raptors with Longstrike Crossbows (170)
Extra Command Point (50)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 95

 

Edited by Sethiris
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40 minutes ago, GM_Monkey said:

It's within 12" though, put I guess with 5 caster it difficult to guess which one is going to cast it? Or was he casting it though a spell portal or balewind?

Portal. That's why the spell portal was the issue. Without it I could just stay far enough away to avoid the brunt of the spells.

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So I might have picked up a sisters of twilight forest which I’ll run as a dreadlord with exile sword and repeater bow. 

 

Any experiences with this unit yet? Of course excited to come in off the board and try to get the 3” charge. 
 

The rest I’m torn between anointed and PG or assassin with SW and DR. 

 

Probably ought to pickup this army book...

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Hi later today I have a 1000 point game, not sure if it's meeting engagement yet but I've decided to go for a living city army. Hoping for some tips and possible changes. 

List :

Fleet master - general

Sorcerer - adjucent

Drycha

1x scourgerunner 

1x scourgerunner 

20x Black guard - bodyguard

5x sister of the thorn

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1 hour ago, Sennyo said:

Hi later today I have a 1000 point game, not sure if it's meeting engagement yet but I've decided to go for a living city army. Hoping for some tips and possible changes. 

List :

Fleet master - general

Sorcerer - adjucent

Drycha

1x scourgerunner 

1x scourgerunner 

20x Black guard - bodyguard

5x sister of the thorn

Sister of the Thorn are nice, but what the point without a Wanderers unit to cast the spell onto? Do you just want a fast moving caster?

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3 hours ago, GM_Monkey said:

Sister of the Thorn are nice, but what the point without a Wanderers unit to cast the spell onto? Do you just want a fast moving caster?

I originally had dark riders instead, I wanted a fast unit that if need could charge into combat and back Drycha, I realised for 20 point more sister did the same job and were a wizard

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What would be some of the weaknesses of this list? Do you think that the the  artifact/ commander Durthu  and fulminators would be worth their weight for the pop up alpha strike? Also would something else be better than sisters of the thorn or are they okay just sitting backfield in a support role?

1639822788_ScreenShot2019-11-01at11_41_54AM.png.3d1f3f3b013db56e92342beb91b10382.png

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9 hours ago, Rogue Sun said:

Has anyone tried or thought about going all in on a SotW build? Seems like it could be fairly devastating with the sheer amount of shots and mortal wound potential.  

The more I think about it, the more I like a Sisters army. The investment would be huge but three units of 30 with a Nomad prince would be terrifying. That could be up to 25 mortals a turn + regular damage. Combined with the deepstrike and double move, this could really be hard to counter

My one hold up would be the occasional use of realm rules in tournaments. There are a few realms that absolutely shut down shooting (realm of shadow most notably). 

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13 hours ago, Landohammer said:

The more I think about it, the more I like a Sisters army. The investment would be huge but three units of 30 with a Nomad prince would be terrifying. That could be up to 25 mortals a turn + regular damage. Combined with the deepstrike and double move, this could really be hard to counter

My one hold up would be the occasional use of realm rules in tournaments. There are a few realms that absolutely shut down shooting (realm of shadow most notably). 

I'm not sure I'd go full all in on SotW. Hard to fit that many all within 12" of the Nomad prince. But something like this could likely have merit (I think): 

 

Allegiance: Cities of Sigmar
- City: Living City
Mortal Realm: Ghyran
Nomad Prince (120)
- General
Nomad Prince (120)
Sorceress (90)
- City Role: General's Adjutant (Must be 6 wounds or less)
30 x Sisters of the Watch (480)
30 x Sisters of the Watch (480)
30 x Eternal Guard (330)
5 x Sisters of the Thorn (130)
1 x Scourgerunner Chariots (60)
1 x Scourgerunner Chariots (60)
1 x Scourgerunner Chariots (60)
1 x Scourgerunner Chariots (60)

Total: 1990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 139
 

One Nomad Prince and SotW deepstrike along with 2 Scourge Runners to annoy/run interference. The rest of the army advances behind the EG who get buffed up by the SotT. The non-deepstruck Scourge Runners stay at the flanks providing some sniping and harrassment. 

Edited by Rogue Sun
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On 11/3/2019 at 5:02 AM, Rogue Sun said:

Has anyone tried or thought about going all in on a SotW build? Seems like it could be fairly devastating with the sheer amount of shots and mortal wound potential.  

This is what I run 1 unit of 30 and a unit of 20. But the biggest issue is placement, you really have to be careful with your initial placement, not to close but not too far away. You've also got to place them with a hero close by to use the after shooting movement, so that they always have a big target within range next round. It's a tough challenge.

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5 hours ago, Rogue Sun said:

I'm not sure I'd go full all in on SotW. Hard to fit that many all within 12" of the Nomad prince. But something like this could likely have merit (I think): 

 

Allegiance: Cities of Sigmar
- City: Living City
Mortal Realm: Ghyran
Nomad Prince (120)
- General
Nomad Prince (120)
Sorceress (90)
- City Role: General's Adjutant (Must be 6 wounds or less)
30 x Sisters of the Watch (480)
30 x Sisters of the Watch (480)
30 x Eternal Guard (330)
5 x Sisters of the Thorn (130)
1 x Scourgerunner Chariots (60)
1 x Scourgerunner Chariots (60)
1 x Scourgerunner Chariots (60)
1 x Scourgerunner Chariots (60)

Total: 1990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 139
 

One Nomad Prince and SotW deepstrike along with 2 Scourge Runners to annoy/run interference. The rest of the army advances behind the EG who get buffed up by the SotT. The non-deepstruck Scourge Runners stay at the flanks providing some sniping and harrassment. 

Maybe you want a Retinue, which is an option if you split either one Sisters or one Eternal Guard.

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