Cities of Sigmar : Lists and synergies tactica

[XReN]

12 minutes ago, Maturin said:

I'm not a fan of old empire artillery in AOS. I found them unreliable damage wise and they can go BOOM. What do you guys thinl about them ? Hellstorm battery could theoretically do 3D6 shots but they could do nothing, even with an engineer nearby! Wouldn't an artillery list be better with some SCE balistas ? They're more reliable when you put in an Hurricanum + LO (hit on 3's, RR 1s if you ve got an azyros) OR, if you've got the points, you could ally some High Elves balistas, which are very reliable 36" range, 12 shots, rend -1, 1D wounds on 3s. 3 OF them would cost 360 points.

You need 15+ CoS units to field 4 balistas and Ordinator, so SCE artillery build is instantly out of question. 

I agree that Empire stuff isn't that great, but with a cheap battalion you really can do some work on enemy units early on, like shred a screenng unit and severely wound a monster at the same time is well in range of this arty capabilities. I also happened to have 2 boxes of such artillery and already bought 2 duardin cannons that I will take apart for bits - you only need a spare carriage to build both variations of an artillery piece from it's box.

[zilberfrid]

30 minutes ago, Maturin said:

What bout the High Elves Balistas, they're compendium but legal for now in Matched play since they have a price tag and weren't removed with the FAQ, contrarty to the Dark Elves Reaper balistas (which were totally nuts.). 36"4+/3+ rend-1/1 are nothing to scoff at, especially since you'll buff them with Hurricanum or LO. I get that you don't like SCE units, but with artillery Lord Ordinator is a must have if you bring enough of them.

They still don't fit the batallion, and I don't have them. I could get Celestar's and make them into those ballistas. Will be a bit of work, becasue Celestars are guns with bow bits stuck on. Otherwise Raptors with longstrikes make a good base, just stick them on a stand and put humans next to it, their crossbows at least are functional (string goes through the slot in the middle of the stock).

I'll probably proxy a Lord Ordinator if it has to be there, I have a Stormcast infantry dude left and a lot of greebles to satisfy it for myself.

Edited September 30, 2019 by zilberfrid

[dekay]

30 minutes ago, Maturin said:

What bout the High Elves Balistas, they're compendium but legal for now in Matched play since they have a price tag and weren't removed with the FAQ, contrarty to the Dark Elves Reaper balistas (which were totally nuts.). 36"4+/3+ rend-1/1 are nothing to scoff at, especially since you'll buff them with Hurricanum or LO.

Sadly, with new wording Hurricanum only works on Cities of Sigmar keyword, so no buffing High Elves.

[Maturin]

57 minutes ago, dekay said:

Sadly, with new wording Hurricanum only works on Cities of Sigmar keyword, so no buffing High Elves.

Too bad, that was a really powerful option. LO+Hurricanuym+Seadragon pennant : 2+/2+/-1/1 HE balistas was great!

[Dr Ben]

11 hours ago, Lord Hightower said:

Whats the exact wording of the hallowheart battalion? How many wizards do you really need (information varies on different sources - is it 2-6 or 3-6) and is a griffon mage allowed? Per keyword he would be a hallowheart battlemage

 

10 hours ago, zilberfrid said:

This issue is I only have one Hurricanum, though especially the big things can easily shift around. The Hurricanum in the Greywater list is easier than in the Hallowheart list, though you are correct, it is a good inclusion. Perhaps I should just dump the Sisters and one group of Dark Riders and include it.

Thanks for the feedback!

It does say Hallowheart Battlemage, which would include the Griffin. That is a good inclusion to soak the mortal wounds and give my dudes more casting power.

I'll rebuild that list then.

Doesn't it say "3-6 hallowheart hero wizard" in the battalion? That's give you a lot of options really. 90 point double cast battlemages are a steal. If you have any Stormcast wizards seem a lot more attractive when they've got +1 spell from the allegiance, +1 cast/unbind from the battalion (+command ability + hurricanum/luminark if you want) and a spell from the hallowheart lore.

A humble knight incantor as general with retinue will be 4+ pass wounds to retinue, -1 hit from lookout sir, 3+ base armour save and 5+ ignore spells from hallowheart. That seems like a pretty tanky 5W double-casting wizard. Might even give a Grey Seer a run for its money. Comet is still a good spell, especially when you have bonus to cast and so many other sources of d3 mortal wounds spam in a hallowheart army to combine it with.

With the hallowheart list I wouldn't run the handgunners personally. Your wizards are going to do enough ranged damage, your problem will be getting run over and murdered before they can cast enough spells. I would suggest either taking more guard/bleakswords to save a few points for endless spells. Or maybe some longbeards with shields to make your front line just a little bit more resilient.

22 hours ago, prochuvi said:

Maybe im blind or my maths are wrong but.......

 

A fast glimpse to the sorceress in black dragon(300) vs any verminlord(220-280) and ........she is expensiver,worse melle damage,only one spell vs two of verminlord,a save of 5 vs a save of 4 with other special save of 5 and any also have a reroll saves.

 

Maybe im wrong but isnt she as 100% worse in all than a verminlord and more expensive?

 

 

The much maligned sorceress on black dragon could be easily +4 cast with 2 spells in hallowheart battalion with a hurricanum (up to potential +10 with the hallowheart command ability). That definitely out-casts verminlords if you build around it. Also her new spell is easy to cast and has a good chance to one-shot many support heroes. Alternatively, she can use her flying fast move to get in range for some of the really powerful but short ranged spells like the anvilgard armour saves of '-' or hallowheart mortal wounds to a horde unit on a 4+. 

I'm not saying she's amazing by any means. But I think you could definitely find a use for her in a 'fat middle' list.

[zilberfrid]

1 hour ago, Dr Ben said:

 

Doesn't it say "3-6 hallowheart hero wizard" in the battalion? That's give you a lot of options really. 90 point double cast battlemages are a steal. If you have any Stormcast wizards seem a lot more attractive when they've got +1 spell from the allegiance, +1 cast/unbind from the battalion (+command ability + hurricanum/luminark if you want) and a spell from the hallowheart lore.

A humble knight incantor as general with retinue will be 4+ pass wounds to retinue, -1 hit from lookout sir, 3+ base armour save and 5+ ignore spells from hallowheart. That seems like a pretty tanky 5W double-casting wizard. Might even give a Grey Seer a run for its money. Comet is still a good spell, especially when you have bonus to cast and so many other sources of d3 mortal wounds spam in a hallowheart army to combine it with.

With the hallowheart list I wouldn't run the handgunners personally. Your wizards are going to do enough ranged damage, your problem will be getting run over and murdered before they can cast enough spells. I would suggest either taking more guard/bleakswords to save a few points for endless spells. Or maybe some longbeards with shields to make your front line just a little bit more resilient.

The much maligned sorceress on black dragon could be easily +4 cast with 2 spells in hallowheart battalion with a hurricanum (up to potential +10 with the hallowheart command ability). That definitely out-casts verminlords if you build around it. Also her new spell is easy to cast and has a good chance to one-shot many support heroes. Alternatively, she can use her flying fast move to get in range for some of the really powerful but short ranged spells like the anvilgard armour saves of '-' or hallowheart mortal wounds to a horde unit on a 4+. 

I'm not saying she's amazing by any means. But I think you could definitely find a use for her in a 'fat middle' list.

Thanks! I do have a Knight Incantor, a few actually, and I'll build up a lot of guards. I don't have dwarves or phoenix guard, but I'll make do with just guards.

[Rahatlin]

Hey yall.

Something i wanna ask becouse its not clear to me - Battalions and Cities.

Lets say my City pick is Living City, is only battalion option avalible to me is Viridian Pathfiners?  Or i can use others associated with separate factions?

[zilberfrid]

17 minutes ago, Rahatlin said:

Or i can use others associated with separate factions?

No, because they would be missing keywords.

Edited September 30, 2019 by zilberfrid

[prochuvi]

4 hours ago, Dr Ben said:

The much maligned sorceress on black dragon could be easily +4 cast with 2 spells in hallowheart battalion with a hurricanum (up to potential +10 with the hallowheart command ability). That definitely out-casts verminlords if you build around it. Also her new spell is easy to cast and has a good chance to one-shot many support heroes. Alternatively, she can use her flying fast move to get in range for some of the really powerful but short ranged spells like the anvilgard armour saves of '-' or hallowheart mortal wounds to a horde unit on a 4+. 

I'm not saying she's amazing by any means. But I think you could definitely find a use for her in a 'fat middle' list.

Thanks but i have been seeing how i can use my deleted dragonlord\drakeseer and after read codex i think i never gonna use the sorceress.

 

Im liking better the dreadlord on dragon,with the warlord trait that let him cast one spell,the relic of a 5++ and the mount trait of do mortal wounds back.

 

I saw the spell of delete the save of a unit that while seem overpower,in a game it is pretty useless because being in hero phase and with 7" the enemy gonna run out of rangue allways. I tougth get the spell of -1 hit so the dragon can have better survivality

[Kierdale]

I’m confused on the Battalion thing too (sorry, I’m relatively new to AoS. Last time I played WHFB there were no Tomb Kings. Oh, wait).

 

Realm Reavers from the Order book;

- 1 black ark fleet master

- 2 units of corsairs

- 1 unit of Scourge runner chariots

- 1 kharibdyss

- Reroll 1s to wound Monsters

- Feared Taskmaster ability. 1 battalion unit within 8” of fleetmaster can move, shoot or charge.

- 150 points

 

... is very similar to Anvilgard’s Charrwind Beasthunters:

- 1 Black Ark Fleetmaster

- 3 units Black Ark Corsairs

-  1-3 Scourgerunner Chariots

- 0-1 Kharibdyss

- +1 to wound rolls when you target a monster.

- 120 points.

 

...but if I have an Anvilguard battalion I can only use the Charrwind Beasthunters battalion? I cannot use Realm Reavers?

 

Edited October 1, 2019 by Kierdale

[spenson]

9 hours ago, prochuvi said:

Thanks but i have been seeing how i can use my deleted dragonlord\drakeseer and after read codex i think i never gonna use the sorceress.

 

Im liking better the dreadlord on dragon,with the warlord trait that let him cast one spell,the relic of a 5++ and the mount trait of do mortal wounds back.

 

I saw the spell of delete the save of a unit that while seem overpower,in a game it is pretty useless because being in hero phase and with 7" the enemy gonna run out of rangue allways. I tougth get the spell of -1 hit so the dragon can have better survivality

I think the spell to remove the save is actually very good since the empowered umbral spellportal can be set anywhere on the table. You just need enough space to put the base of the second portal within 6" of the enemy unit. Should be pretty easy.

[zilberfrid]

7 hours ago, Kierdale said:

I’m confused on the Battalion thing too (sorry, I’m relatively new to AoS. Last time I played WHFB there were no Tomb Kings. Oh, wait).

 

Realm Reavers from the Order book;

- 1 black ark fleet master

- 2 units of corsairs

- 1 unit of Scourge runner chariots

- 1 kharibdyss

- Reroll 1s to wound Monsters

- Feared Taskmaster ability. 1 battalion unit within 8” of fleetmaster can move, shoot or charge.

- 150 points

 

... is very similar to Anvilgard’s Charrwind Beasthunters:

- 1 Black Ark Fleetmaster

- 3 units Black Ark Corsairs

-  1-3 Scourgerunner Chariots

- 0-1 Kharibdyss

- +1 to wound rolls when you target a monster.

- 120 points.

 

...but if I have an Anvilguard battalion I can only use the Charrwind Beasthunters battalion? I cannot use Realm Reavers?

 

A second noob question, if I may: is the battalion’s Feared Taskmaster ability a Command Ability (i.e. requires a CP)? It doesn’t say it’s a Command Ability, though I realise the Order book is from AoS1...

Realm Reavers have a Pitched Battle points cost, for now. There was talk about releasing more than one points booklet per year, which may remove them from the game earlier than GHB 2020. I'm about 99.9% certain it will no longer be in GHB 2020.

For the Feared Taskmaster, I'd say it does not require a CP, but I am no expert.

[Maturin]

8 hours ago, Kierdale said:

Realm Reavers from the Order book;

- Feared Taskmaster ability. 1 battalion unit within 8” of fleetmaster can move, shoot or charge.

- 150 points

... is very similar to Anvilgard’s Charrwind Beasthunters:

- +1 to wound rolls when you target a monster.

- 120 points

The later batalion is way better IMHO. +1 to wound AND Reroll 1s to wound if use a CP with GHB 2019 new CA

Edited October 1, 2019 by Maturin

[Rahatlin]

Still question stands - can he use eighter becouse all units from both battalions have CoS and Scourge Privateers keywords?  or he is specificly locked to Anvilguard one since he plays CoS army ?

[Maturin]

9 hours ago, Rahatlin said:

Still question stands - can he use eighter becouse all units from both battalions have CoS and Scourge Privateers keywords?  or he is specificly locked to Anvilguard one since he plays CoS army ?

It will depend on what keywords those units have. If they retained scourgerunner and also got cities of Sigmar, he could do both. But units can t be part od two different batalions so he ll need everything in double.

[Sabotage!]

So, I want to apologize ahead of time, because I'm sure this has been asked before buy I have not seen it.

The old Cities of Sigmar rules prohibited you to running units from only certain factions in your list (for example Anvilguard could only run Darkling Covens, Scourge Privateers, Freeguild, Dispossessed, etc).

Are those restrictions still in place? I've seen lists for armies using units that don't seem to match with the old unit restrictions. Or is it you can take anything for any city, just the city specific bonuses tend to be better for certain units (Greywater Fastness for Shooting, Hallowheart for Magic, etc)?

I ask because I am looking at possibly starting an army later this year and wanted to consider what city would be best for me.

[Maturin]

It seems like there's no such restriction anymore @Sabotage!

[Arkhanist]

5 hours ago, Sabotage! said:

So, I want to apologize ahead of time, because I'm sure this has been asked before buy I have not seen it.

The old Cities of Sigmar rules prohibited you to running units from only certain factions in your list (for example Anvilguard could only run Darkling Covens, Scourge Privateers, Freeguild, Dispossessed, etc).

Are those restrictions still in place?

No, they're not. All cities can pick from all warscrolls in the book, but some will benefit more from the city rules than others, e.g. Greywater Fastness rules specifically name Ironweld Arsenal in a couple of places for bonuses. There are a few differences on the new semi-ally thing. Tempest's eye can take 1 in 4 as Kharadron units that gain the CoS keyword and aren't counted as allies, the Living City similarly with Sylvaneth, while all can take Stormcast in this fashion.

[Sabotage!]

@Maturin@Arkhanist Thank you two immensely. I really appreciate the feedback, this is really good to know If I decide to go forward with building an army.

[Arkhanist]

1 minute ago, Sabotage! said:

@Maturin@Arkhanist Thank you two immensely. I really appreciate the feedback, this is really good to know If I decide to go forward with building an army.

No worries! One thing I forgot is that is city impacts some units as battleline if, e.g. freeguild pistoliers and outriders are battleline in tempest eye. Most are tied to the general as usual, list is here. I believe If you make your own painting scheme up for your own City, then you can 'count as' any other city so you're not locked in permanently. I'm kinda torn between Greywater fastness and Tempest's eye for my existing duardin, so I'm planning on my own city with fluff (and a repaint) that I could run as either.

[Sabotage!]

2 minutes ago, Arkhanist said:

No worries! One thing I forgot is that is city impacts some units as battleline if, e.g. freeguild pistoliers and outriders are battleline in tempest eye. Most are tied to the general as usual, list is here. I believe If you make your own painting scheme up for your own City, then you can 'count as' any other city so you're not locked in permanently. I'm kinda torn between Greywater fastness and Tempest's eye for my existing duardin, so I'm planning on my own city with fluff (and a repaint) that I could run as either.

That is an extremely helpful link. I really would like to use Freeguild, Duardin, and Dark Aelves (though I'm not so into the corsairs as I hate painting them),  so I', not sure which route I would go. Maybe Anvilguard. I like the idea of making my own paint scheme and coming up with my own fluff for a city, and it would be an added bonus to be able to experiment with different rules.

[Maturin]

@Sabotage! Have a look at this if you want to know what city will have  your preference

 

[Sabotage!]

@Maturin You did a great deal of work there along with a lot of other Order players, thanks for putting in the effort. This is really good information to know, and definitely something I will have to consider in deciding what units/City to go for.

[Maturin]

My pleasure. I hope we'll all keep this thread alive and I'm thinking of removing description of units when the BT will be out, to replace it with tactics and lists. I know how it can be a pain in the ass to have to read 60 pages to find what's hot or not @Sabotage!

Edited October 3, 2019 by Maturin

[Trayanee]

How are you guys equipping your freeguild guards? I suppose their advantage lies in numbers so I will probably be taking 40 of them.  With halbers they can do some serious damage , spears offer mostly range but I am not sure those extra attacks from second line are worth -1 to wound and no rend. With swords they finally start to look like a guard but seem to me mostly harmless (intended) to anything with a good save.