Nasnad Posted September 29, 2019 Share Posted September 29, 2019 What do you all think of black guards, and dreadspears/bleakswords/darkshards? .. Also how are dark riders vs pistolers and outriders? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maturin Posted September 29, 2019 Author Share Posted September 29, 2019 (edited) @Nasnad Tasty! LEt's not forget Hydras Battleline! Edited September 29, 2019 by Maturin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke.w Posted September 29, 2019 Share Posted September 29, 2019 1 minute ago, Nasnad said: What do you all think of black guards, and dreadspears/bleakswords/darkshards? .. Also how are dark riders vs pistolers and outriders? black guard are less efficient than phoenix guard, especially when using a phoenix and using emerald lifeswarm for regen. dreadspears and bleakswords are decent chaff and not much more. darkshards are pretty efficient, especially after they now hit on 4s Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maier666 Posted September 29, 2019 Share Posted September 29, 2019 Anyone know about the Mistweaver Saih? At the Moment it looks like i cant play him in Cities. Would Proxi her as Sorceress oder Battlemage but liked her rules also Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nasnad Posted September 29, 2019 Share Posted September 29, 2019 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Luke.w said: black guard are less efficient than phoenix guard, especially when using a phoenix and using emerald lifeswarm for regen. but if you have a darkling hero nearby they get +1 to hit. Sounds okay. But would it be worth it to have 20 blackguards over 20 dreadspears/bleakswords and 10 darkshards? Edited September 29, 2019 by Nasnad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke.w Posted September 29, 2019 Share Posted September 29, 2019 Just now, Nasnad said: but if you have a darkling hero nearby they get +1 to hit. Sounds okay they are by no means bad, but as a melee unit to build around, the phoenix guard just far outshine them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nasnad Posted September 29, 2019 Share Posted September 29, 2019 2 minutes ago, Luke.w said: they are by no means bad, but as a melee unit to build around, the phoenix guard just far outshine them Just thinking of using a block of 20 as battleline in an 1000 pts meeting engagement. with 2 scourgerunners and some dark riders/pistolers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke.w Posted September 29, 2019 Share Posted September 29, 2019 2 minutes ago, Nasnad said: Just thinking of using a block of 20 as battleline in an 1000 pts meeting engagement. with 2 scourgerunners and some dark riders/pistolers yeah that could work for sure. try it and tell us how it goes. at 1000 you are less likely to have a phoenix and could be tight for points so they may prove a better option in this case Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prochuvi Posted September 29, 2019 Share Posted September 29, 2019 Maybe im blind or my maths are wrong but....... A fast glimpse to the sorceress in black dragon(300) vs any verminlord(220-280) and ........she is expensiver,worse melle damage,only one spell vs two of verminlord,a save of 5 vs a save of 4 with other special save of 5 and any also have a reroll saves. Maybe im wrong but isnt she as 100% worse in all than a verminlord and more expensive? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratigo Posted September 29, 2019 Share Posted September 29, 2019 50 minutes ago, prochuvi said: Maybe im blind or my maths are wrong but....... A fast glimpse to the sorceress in black dragon(300) vs any verminlord(220-280) and ........she is expensiver,worse melle damage,only one spell vs two of verminlord,a save of 5 vs a save of 4 with other special save of 5 and any also have a reroll saves. Maybe im wrong but isnt she as 100% worse in all than a verminlord and more expensive? Welcome to skaven. The battle tome that is the biggest mistake. Until hedonites. I joke, hedonites only do a couple of really annoying things. Skaven are way more annoying 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laststand Posted September 29, 2019 Share Posted September 29, 2019 3 hours ago, prochuvi said: Maybe im blind or my maths are wrong but....... A fast glimpse to the sorceress in black dragon(300) vs any verminlord(220-280) and ........she is expensiver,worse melle damage,only one spell vs two of verminlord,a save of 5 vs a save of 4 with other special save of 5 and any also have a reroll saves. Maybe im wrong but isnt she as 100% worse in all than a verminlord and more expensive? The cheapest verminlord is 280 points and they go to 320. The Dragon actually has better melee than most of the verminlords if you math out the damage. It flies and can move further. On the flip side the verminlord saves are much better, so is their magic and most Command abilities. Verminlords are definetely better but as a group not by a stupid amount. (Warpseer at 300pts is massively better though) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord marcus Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 I am sad at the crossbowmen Nerf. I have 100 of the blighters Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratigo Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 5 minutes ago, Lord marcus said: I am sad at the crossbowmen Nerf. I have 100 of the blighters Their nerf isn’t That bad. The internet is wrong about it. And they gained access to a lot of buffs. There is no reason to not be hitting and wounding on 2s with them 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prochuvi Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 2 hours ago, Laststand said: The cheapest verminlord is 280 points and they go to 320. The Dragon actually has better melee than most of the verminlords if you math out the damage. It flies and can move further. On the flip side the verminlord saves are much better, so is their magic and most Command abilities. Verminlords are definetely better but as a group not by a stupid amount. (Warpseer at 300pts is massively better though) I saw the verminlord with the two hand lance,i dont remember the name and his damage was around 12 when the dragon does around 10 damage. Also save of 5 of dragon vs save of 4 of verminlord with 5 special save and a -1 to be hit if you choose it. And two spells from verminlord for 1 of dragon. What am i missin? Because i see better melle damage,9999999999 better survivality and double magic for same or less points Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwendar Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 @prochuvi You're also comparing 1 thing to something completely different in a completely different army in a completely different faction in a completely different tome... etc. Are you also going to compare it to everything else similarly point-costed in Order, Destruction, Death and Chaos? Yeah, it's not as good when you compare it that way (though, the only Verminlord that does any damage for me is the Corruptor with SoJ) when the factions play completely differently and the rest of the models in a faction are taken into cost accounts most likely. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zilberfrid Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 (edited) 7 hours ago, Maier666 said: Anyone know about the Mistweaver Saih? At the Moment it looks like i cant play him in Cities. Would Proxi her as Sorceress oder Battlemage but liked her rules also The warscroll has very few keywords, just order wizard aelf hero and the name, I think it's going to be GA order only. Another character essentially lost. Edited September 30, 2019 by zilberfrid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratigo Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 1 hour ago, Gwendar said: @prochuvi You're also comparing 1 thing to something completely different in a completely different army in a completely different faction in a completely different tome... etc. Are you also going to compare it to everything else similarly point-costed in Order, Destruction, Death and Chaos? Yeah, it's not as good when you compare it that way (though, the only Verminlord that does any damage for me is the Corruptor with SoJ) when the factions play completely differently and the rest of the models in a faction are taken into cost accounts most likely. Which is a stronger unit in a broken battletome. Like, maybe CoS will be as much of a mess as skaven are, but I don't wish that on the system or people who play against it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zilberfrid Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 (edited) I have a few very rough ideas about armies, would anyone care to comment on it? Tempest's eye: General on Griffin 320 10 Outriders 200 5 Outriders 100 10 Pistoleers 200 5 Pistoleers 100 Batallion 120 Amber mage on Griffin 300 Gotrek 520 Emerald Lifeswarm 50 Prosecuters with hammers 90 or Chronomantic cogs 80 Greywater Fastness Cogsmith 60 Rockets 130 Rockets 130 Volleys 120 Volleys 120 Batallion 120 General 100 40 Guards 280 10 gunners 100 30 Crossbows 300 5 Dark Riders 110 Celestial Hurricanum w wizard 280 100 points for endless spells (lifeswarm, burning head) Hallowheart 4 battlemages 360 Batallion 140 Gunners 100 Gunners 100 Guards 280 General 100 Hurricanum with mage 280 5 Dark Riders 110 5 Dark Riders 110 Amber wizard on Griffin 300 120 points of endless spells (might be too little, then I'll have to take down dark riders) Edited September 30, 2019 by zilberfrid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratigo Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 The hurricanum is so good it feels kinda tragic not taking it, especially in your hallowheart list there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Hightower Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 Whats the exact wording of the hallowheart battalion? How many wizards do you really need (information varies on different sources - is it 2-6 or 3-6) and is a griffon mage allowed? Per keyword he would be a hallowheart battlemage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zilberfrid Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 22 minutes ago, stratigo said: The hurricanum is so good it feels kinda tragic not taking it, especially in your hallowheart list there. This issue is I only have one Hurricanum, though especially the big things can easily shift around. The Hurricanum in the Greywater list is easier than in the Hallowheart list, though you are correct, it is a good inclusion. Perhaps I should just dump the Sisters and one group of Dark Riders and include it. Thanks for the feedback! 18 minutes ago, Lord Hightower said: Whats the exact wording of the hallowheart battalion? How many wizards do you really need (information varies on different sources - is it 2-6 or 3-6) and is a griffon mage allowed? Per keyword he would be a hallowheart battlemage It does say Hallowheart Battlemage, which would include the Griffin. That is a good inclusion to soak the mortal wounds and give my dudes more casting power. I'll rebuild that list then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maturin Posted September 30, 2019 Author Share Posted September 30, 2019 @zilberfrid : "Greywater Fastness Cogsmith Rockets Rockets Volleys Volleys Batallion General 20 Greatswords 40 Guards 30 Crossbows Celestial Hurricanum w wizard 70 points for endless spells" I'm not a fan of old empire artillery in AOS. I found them unreliable damage wise and they can go BOOM. What do you guys thinl about them ? Hellstorm battery could theoretically do 3D6 shots but they could do nothing, even with an engineer nearby! Wouldn't an artillery list be better with some SCE balistas ? They're more reliable when you put in an Hurricanum + LO (hit on 3's, RR 1s if you ve got an azyros) OR, if you've got the points, you could ally some High Elves balistas, which are very reliable 36" range, 12 shots, rend -1, 1D wounds on 3s. 3 OF them would cost 360 points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maturin Posted September 30, 2019 Author Share Posted September 30, 2019 Included on the first post of the thread, the mathammer comming from @swarmofseals 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zilberfrid Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 3 minutes ago, Maturin said: @zilberfrid : "Greywater Fastness Cogsmith Rockets Rockets Volleys Volleys Batallion General 20 Greatswords 40 Guards 30 Crossbows Celestial Hurricanum w wizard 70 points for endless spells" I'm not a fan of old empire artillery in AOS. I found them unreliable damage wise and they can go BOOM. What do you guys thinl about them ? Hellstorm battery could theoretically do 3D6 shots but they could do nothing, even with an engineer nearby! Wouldn't an artillery list be better with some SCE balistas ? They're more reliable when you put in an Hurricanum + LO (hit on 3's, RR 1s if you ve got an azyros) OR, if you've got the points, you could ally some High Elves balistas, which are very reliable 36" range, 12 shots, rend -1, 1D wounds on 3s. 3 OF them would cost 360 points. The issue is that I don't like anything SCE, and they don't fit the batallion. It really does seem the rockets and volley guns are overcosted, if this doesn't work, I won't make a Greywater list at all. I have never fielded rockets or volley guns, they were worse before the new book (though line of sight was less of an issue), and I did not have them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maturin Posted September 30, 2019 Author Share Posted September 30, 2019 (edited) What bout the High Elves Balistas, they're compendium but legal for now in Matched play since they have a price tag and weren't removed with the FAQ, contrarty to the Dark Elves Reaper balistas (which were totally nuts.). 36"4+/3+ rend-1/1 are nothing to scoff at, especially since you'll buff them with Hurricanum or LO. I get that you don't like SCE units, but with artillery Lord Ordinator is a must have if you bring enough of them. Edited September 30, 2019 by Maturin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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