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AoS 2 - Phoenicium Discussion

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13 minutes ago, Ignatius "Nate" T said:

Good to hear I’m not the only one who’s shifted to trying to make the most out of the command ability. Units like wild riders that are great for 1 turn and lose effectiveness are prime targets, especially considering they are going to die anyways. Sure you can use it on Phoenix guard but it’s not entirely necessary. 

 

Something like wild riders are a freaking awesome unit to use this on. One of two things is going to happen here. 1)you chose the wild riders first and you get to attack twice at -2 2 damage which is awesome 

or

2) you purposefully don’t choose the wild riders first and pick some other unit (hopefully some little dude like an anointed, fleetmaster, etc.), essentially tempting your opponent to kill off your wild riders. They do so, and while you won’t be attacking twice, you’ll still get an activation AND proc the hit / wound bonus for any other units you have. 

 

I don’t think the battle trait is so pointless that we should ignore it, but I don’t think it’s something super reliable. In cases like this though I think it’s possible to essentially force it. 

Yes, I think option 1 is the best one. But yes, depend on situations.

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On 10/11/2019 at 11:11 AM, Raffonerd said:

Yes, I think option 1 is the best one. But yes, depend on situations.

I agree most of the time that is going to be the best bet. The point is that there are options- which is awesome. 

 

Off the top of my head Stormcast Fulminators will be amazing here- similar in theory to Wild Riders, with the potential for some insane damage if they get the charge off. They are much harder to kill, so if this is going to be implemented here its got to be into a unit you know will be able to deal with 10 3+ save wounds.

Another less competitive choice for me at least is going to be a Celestant Prime. Strike down and guaranteed charge into a GKOT/Durthu/whatever your opponent is relying on and you'll probably be able to get it after two activations. 

 

Edit: 

After some quick math it appears wild riders would be a better choice here if you’re going from just a damage perspective. With a CA spent on Idols one unit of 5 Wildriders with no other buffs and assuming they attack and then are killed to fight again do:

3+ save: 11.4 damage 

4+ save: 14.7 damage 

5+ save: 18 damage 

6+ save:  18.8 damage 

vs

Fulminators

3+: 10.6

4+: 14.2

5+: 17.7

6+: 21.3

Should be noted this is on the charge, and doesn’t take into account the Intolerable Damage special rule for the Dracoths though I believe you can add .58 to all the fulminators damages and that’ll get you at least close. 

Edited by Ignatius "Nate" T

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New option guys;

Phoenicium
Anoited Frost 320
Bmage 90
Anoited Frost 320
   
SoT 130
   
Phoenix 420
Eternal Guards 260
Liberators 100
Wild Rider 130
Wild Rider 130
   
Emerald 50
Cp 50
   
   
Totale 2000

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On 10/24/2019 at 9:36 AM, Raffonerd said:

New option guys;

Phoenicium
Anoited Frost 320
Bmage 90
Anoited Frost 320
   
SoT 130
   
Phoenix 420
Eternal Guards 260
Liberators 100
Wild Rider 130
Wild Rider 130
   
Emerald 50
Cp 50
   
   
Totale 2000

Interesting list sir, could you explain your choices and tactic? Why didnt u get atleast 1 fire phoenix, i think the reborn is pretty op
Why Liberators? 

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35 minutes ago, hutch said:

Interesting list sir, could you explain your choices and tactic? Why didnt u get atleast 1 fire phoenix, i think the reborn is pretty op
Why Liberators? 

Just Bline with low cost.

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Quick question... with the new "Phoenix Flight" battalion, can I take phoenixes with anointed on them or must the battalion's units be riderless?

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10 hours ago, Fazhak said:

n I take phoenixes with anointed on them or must the battalion's units be riderless?

No you can also with the rider. It's the keyword that leads.

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On 10/25/2019 at 1:21 PM, hutch said:

Interesting list sir, could you explain your choices and tactic? Why didnt u get atleast 1 fire phoenix, i think the reborn is pretty op
Why Liberators? 

Tactic here is easy. Stay near phoenix and rush Cac. :)

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Please share your thoughts on the following list.

The general, adjutant, and rangers head to tackle the biggest threat/contested objective on the table, backed up with one of the two phoenixes. The other phoenix supports the Wild Riders who hopefully get an early charge. The phoenix guard grab an objective, in a way that screens the other troops. Sisters of the Thorn provide support, casting Armour of Thorns and Mystic Shield on the general (bringing him to a 2+ save, re-rolling ones).

Allegiance: Cities of Sigmar
- City: Phoenicium
Mortal Realm: Ghyran

Leaders
Nomad Prince (120)
- General
- Trait: Aura of Serenity
- Artefact: Amber Armour
Sorceress (90)
- Spell: Lore of the Phoenix - Golden Mist (Phoenicium Wizard)
- City Role: General's Adjutant (Must be 6 wounds or less)
Anointed of Asuryan on Frostheart Phoenix (320)
Anointed of Asuryan on Frostheart Phoenix (320)

Battleline
20 x Wildwood Rangers (260)
- City Role: Honoured Retinue (Must be 5-20 models)
5 x Sisters of the Thorn (130)
- Spell: Lore of the Phoenix - Amber Tide (Phoenicium Wizard)
5 x Sisters of the Thorn (130)
- Spell: Lore of the Phoenix - Phoenix Cry (Phoenicium Wizard)

Units
10 x Wild Riders (260)
20 x Phoenix Guard (320)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Extra Command Point (50)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 114

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Enjoying the above list. Might split the 20x Phoenix Guard into two 10x units. Nomad Prince seems to be a solid general.

Any thoughts on the list?

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I've been playing this Phoenecium list with success. 

 

Setup your guards with halberds as screens with the phonenix guard right behind. The phoenixes also behind that. 

1 gyro on each board edge and one in the middle. 

 

Wild riders on the charge are great. Select them first and activate your command ability so they fight again when they die. Engage with Gyros too preferably in a way it'll die. That way everything that is left gets +1/+1.

 

Flamespyre Phoenixes and Gyros drops bombs. Two Phoenixes can provide battleshock immunity and re-roll 1s on your Phoenix Guards, who become very killy when buffed.

 

Very fun list - and works wonders too!

Allegiance: Cities of Sigmar
- City: Phoenicium

Leaders
Anointed of Asuryan on Flamespyre Phoenix (300)
Anointed of Asuryan on Frostheart Phoenix (320)
- General
- Command Trait: One with Fire and Ice - Golden Mist
- Artefact: Phoenix Pyre Ashes

Battleline
30 x Phoenix Guard (420)
10 x Freeguild Guard (80)
- Halberds and Shields
10 x Freeguild Guard (80)
- Halberds and Shields

Units
5 x Wild Riders (130)
5 x Wild Riders (130)
5 x Wild Riders (130)
1 x Gyrocopters (70)
1 x Gyrocopters (70)
1 x Gyrocopters (70)

Behemoths
Flamespyre Phoenix (200)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 128
 

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15 minutes ago, Rune said:

I've been playing this Phoenecium list with success. 

 

Setup your guards with halberds as screens with the phonenix guard right behind. The phoenixes also behind that. 

1 gyro on each board edge and one in the middle. 

 

Wild riders on the charge are great. Select them first and activate your command ability so they fight again when they die. Engage with Gyros too preferably in a way it'll die. That way everything that is left gets +1/+1.

 

Flamespyre Phoenixes and Gyros drops bombs. Two Phoenixes can provide battleshock immunity and re-roll 1s on your Phoenix Guards, who become very killy when buffed.

 

Very fun list - and works wonders too!

Allegiance: Cities of Sigmar
- City: Phoenicium

Leaders
Anointed of Asuryan on Flamespyre Phoenix (300)
Anointed of Asuryan on Frostheart Phoenix (320)
- General
- Command Trait: One with Fire and Ice - Golden Mist
- Artefact: Phoenix Pyre Ashes

Battleline
30 x Phoenix Guard (420)
10 x Freeguild Guard (80)
- Halberds and Shields
10 x Freeguild Guard (80)
- Halberds and Shields

Units
5 x Wild Riders (130)
5 x Wild Riders (130)
5 x Wild Riders (130)
1 x Gyrocopters (70)
1 x Gyrocopters (70)
1 x Gyrocopters (70)

Behemoths
Flamespyre Phoenix (200)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 128
 

Going to experiment with flaggelants in that now. 

 

The way I interpret the rules, they will get buffed up and able to fight buffed before they are removed. Could be sick.

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Posted (edited)

Hi everyone, it seems it's been some time no one posted anything here, but I decided that i wanted to play a phoenicium list and this is what i ended with. What Inintended was to maximize the healing aspect of this rules, and having two very killable units for the buff. Tell me any suggestions you have, and thank you!

Allegiance: Cities of Sigmar
 - Mortal Realm: Ghyran
 - City: Phoenicium


LEADERS
Anointed of Asuryan on Flamespyre Phoenix (300)
- General
- Command Trait : Aura of Serenity 
- Artefact : Phoenix Pyre Ashes 


Anointed of Asuryan on Frostheart Phoenix (320)
- Artefact : Amber Armour 

Sorceress (90)                                                     -Lore of the Phoenix : Golden Mist

Steam Tank with Commander (230)


UNITS
10 x Bleakswords (90)
10 x Bleakswords (90)
30 x Phoenix Guard (420)


BEHEMOTHS
Steam Tank (180)
- Cities of Sigmar Battleline (Steam Tank with Commander General)


BATTALIONS
Phoenix Flight (130)


ENDLESS SPELLS / TERRAIN / COMMAND POINTS
Soulscream Bridge (100)
Emerald Lifeswarm (50)


TOTAL: 2000/2000 WOUNDS: 103
LEADERS: 4/6 BATTLELINES: 3 (3+) BEHEMOTHS: 4/4 ARTILLERY: 0/4
ARTEFACTS: 2/2 ENDLESS SPELLS: 2/3 ALLIES: 0/400

Phoenicium (1).pdf

Edited by antoara

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Hi!

I'm on the hunt for a second AoS army (first: Stormcast 'cos they were in the AoS2 starter) as a project for next year and was wondering if you could share your insight and experience with the Phoenix Temple City.

I've narrowed my choices down to Phoenix Temple, Fyreslayers and warrior focused Slaves to Darkness. The main things I am looking for are survivable models - I don't like taking swathes of my models off the table in one go after spending all that time painting them - and a fairly low-medium model count so it's an approachable project to buy, build and paint.

The Phoenix Temple seem to fit the bill with survivable models, a few fun monsters and the option to add one or two units from other Cities for a bit of visual variety.

What does a 'standard' Phoenix Temple army look like? What are the wackier builds that are still functional? What are the stand out units or combos or features and what should I be avoiding?

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25 minutes ago, SorryLizard said:

Hi!

I'm on the hunt for a second AoS army (first: Stormcast 'cos they were in the AoS2 starter) as a project for next year and was wondering if you could share your insight and experience with the Phoenix Temple City.

Phoenix Guards are the BEST infantry in the Order alliance. There can't be no question to that, even with the 20 points increase. 20 PG are already quite resilient, but 30 of them won't go anywhere soon (unless you're THAT unlucky with dice).
4+ 4++ 2 attacks each, rend -1, 2" range. They're just too good.
If you bring wizards to raise them back from the dead (you should) you can bring max 6 of them a turn. I did that in a HH army, my opponent wasn't  amused. He focused the 2*10 handgunners right behing my PG with the shooting attack then some of his melee attacks, so he pretty much wiped them, but the PG tanked his remaining charging MAwcrusha attacks and Goreguntas. In my turn, PG got resurrected, Sisters shot, Hurricanum shot and GG and MC were gone :)

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4 minutes ago, Maturin said:

Phoenix Guards are the BEST infantry in the Order alliance. There can't be no question to that, even with the 20 points increase. 20 PG are already quite resilient, but 30 of them won't go anywhere soon (unless you're THAT unlucky with dice).
4+ 4++ 2 attacks each, rend -1, 2" range. They're just too good.
If you bring wizards to raise them back from the dead (you should) you can bring max 6 of them a turn. I did that in a HH army, my opponent wasn't  amused. He focused the 2*10 handgunners right behing my PG with the shooting attack then some of his melee attacks, so he pretty much wiped them, but the PG tanked his remaining charging MAwcrusha attacks and Goreguntas. In my turn, PG got resurrected, Sisters shot, Hurricanum shot and GG and MC were gone :)

Wizards raising them from the dead. Is that via the Lifeswarm?

From the sounds of it I'd want 2 units of 20 Phoenix Guard as the core (might try and hunt down some of the old White Lions models for one unit to add some variety).

Are handgunners a common support unit? Or is it more of a 'pick something with shooting' choice and any of the units would do the job?

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2 hours ago, SorryLizard said:

Wizards raising them from the dead. Is that via the Lifeswarm?

From the sounds of it I'd want 2 units of 20 Phoenix Guard as the core (might try and hunt down some of the old White Lions models for one unit to add some variety).

Are handgunners a common support unit? Or is it more of a 'pick something with shooting' choice and any of the units would do the job?

Yes.
Solid core. Not invulnerable but very very solid.
Nope. It's just that I played a Hallow Heart bunker list that day. If you want to be able to use the ca, you need something that will die and you won't care about it. 80/100 points max units are perfect for that. You've got lots of choices. Depends on what you own.

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I took a Phonecium Temple army at LVO this past year, it was a lot of fun and relatively easy to pilot.  I don’t think it’s top tier, but you can definitely have a winning record. 

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22 minutes ago, Maturin said:

Yes.
Solid core. Not invulnerable but very very solid.
Nope. It's just that I played a Hallow Heart bunker list that day. If you want to be able to use the ca, you need something that will die and you won't care about it. 80/100 points max units are perfect for that. You've got lots of choices. Depends on what you own.

Does the special ability that triggers on dying have to be a cities unit?

Could I ally in some Stormcast to get Aetherwings and forcibly throw those into the enemy to fight and die for 40pts?

20 minutes ago, Jd_Esquire said:

I took a Phonecium Temple army at LVO this past year, it was a lot of fun and relatively easy to pilot.  I don’t think it’s top tier, but you can definitely have a winning record. 

Sounds kind of perfect there. Easy piloting, resilient to curb stomping but probabl wont take me to high pressure zones in upper tables :)

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15 minutes ago, SorryLizard said:

Does the special ability that triggers on dying have to be a cities unit?

Could I ally in some Stormcast to get Aetherwings and forcibly throw those into the enemy to fight and die for 40pts?

Sounds kind of perfect there. Easy piloting, resilient to curb stomping but probabl wont take me to high pressure zones in upper tables :)

You don't have to ally SCE. They're COS too. You can take 1 unit of them for three nonSCE COS units you take. So If you want only 1 unit of Aetherwings, you can just take them.

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5 hours ago, Maturin said:

You don't have to ally SCE. They're COS too. You can take 1 unit of them for three nonSCE COS units you take. So If you want only 1 unit of Aetherwings, you can just take them.

Oh, that's handy.

Wouldn't be able to use their 'move in the enemy charge phase' ability without bringing a unit of longstrikes/hurricanes but as cheap suicide units to trigger the army ability they could work. The timing is in the opponent's hands though.

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5 minutes ago, SorryLizard said:

Oh, that's handy.

Wouldn't be able to use their 'move in the enemy charge phase' ability without bringing a unit of longstrikes/hurricanes but as cheap suicide units to trigger the army ability they could work. The timing is in the opponent's hands though.

You could if you bring Vanguard raptors. But I don't see the point. 

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2 minutes ago, Maturin said:

You could if you bring Vanguard raptors. But I don't see the point. 

Yeah it defeats the purpose of a cheap easily killable unit if I started bringing along other more expensive stuff to trigger an ability on the suicide chaff.

So for a starting point 1k do I want to bring a mounted Annointed? Or an annointed on foot and an unmounted phoenix to have more flexibility in moving them around so they're not stuck as one model.

Something like:

Annointed on one of the phoenix for 320 or 300

20 phoenix guard 320

10 phoenix guard 160

something cheap and fast as a chaff screen like the aetherwings and something like dark riders or wild riders as a mobile unit.

Broad outline would be to screen the advancing PG with riders/wings until they reach the mid field and can snag objectives, then bunker down on them.

Expanding up to 2k would come later but having a goal to get something playable on the table is good for my motivation.

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Pondering cities of sigmar with a few thoughts and a few questions

Thoughts-

I just realized that the fire pheonix both hits worse and has 2 less attacks than the frost one? What gives! -1 to wound aura is so good that it basically compensates for the regen+mortal wounds thing on its own.

 I also like the look of wild-riders as some above have seen, but at the same time, needing a nomad prince seems problematic, since he adds so little besides battleline unlocks.

Questions:

1) Also, has anyone tried a freeguild general with the +attacks command traits? He has excellent quality attacks, to which +3 attacks would be brutal. Benefits a lot from +1/+1 too

2) Only phoenix heroes can use the command ability, correct, so basically every list needs at least one anointed on phoenix?

3) Have people tried greatswords with this in units of 10? They seem promising.

 

 

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