Cities of Sigmar: Unhappy about news updates

[Yeled]

17 minutes ago, Zanzou said:

Understandable, but many of us are new to the game WITH AoS.  When we bought in, there were no warning labels on these products indicating that they were “too old”, they were simply models for AoS. To us, it was not pining for the old, they were all valid new things for us to purchase to get into for AoS.  Only as time went on did it become clear that GW never had that intention.  Hence why many of us feel baited and switched.

This is totally fair. Actually, I got back into Warhammer with the release of AoS. I hadn't played in years (3rd edition Warhammer Fantasy Battle). And while I had some of my old models, they were veeeerrrrryyy old (and made of lead).

Like you, I bought my Wanderers for AoS. And my son bought Greenskinz. And my other son Slaves to Darkness. All three armies are either chopped to pieces by GW, killed outright, or unsupported thus far. You are totally right. They put these Start Collecting bundles together to entice us to purchase armies that turned out to be unsupported. They advertised armies that turned out to be unsupported.

I made a mistake. I knew the Wanderers were older. I didn't know they would be unsupported. It may be GW's fault, but I have to deal with it. I went through the frustrated phase like you did. Now all three of us (me and my boys) have moved on to different armies (Nurgle for me, Nighthaunt for my first son, Tzeentch for my second).

Ultimately I want to play an aelven army as I am really an elf player at heart. Nurgle is kinda a stand in. But I am no longer willing to keep holding out hope that the Wanderers will be fleshed out into a full army. At this point, GW has culled it down to the point where you can't even really field an archer army with the Wanderers (they have one archer unit, Sisters of the Watch). And I think it would serve most AoS players, new or old, to embrace new supported armies over older ones. 

Yes, GW is to blame and they didn't put warning signs up. But I don't want to be frustrated with my army. The only choice I have is to be frustrated or move on. I have chosen the later.

[DantePQ]

Free Cities and Warclans aren't important release to GW - it's just way to make all factions up to date and then came up with bigger releases. It was already done to wh40k and there some similar amount of complaining and crying about it. 

 

[EccentricCircle]

1 hour ago, DantePQ said:

Free Cities and Warclans aren't important release to GW - it's just way to make all factions up to date and then came up with bigger releases. It was already done to wh40k and there some similar amount of complaining and crying about it. 

 

Plus a book (with or without spells) is always going to have less of a marketing push than a full model release. They still consider themselves to be first and foremost a miniatures company, even if they are doing more rules releases this edition.

[Matador]

21 hours ago, Overread said:

You are aware that there's a new post where its specifically stated that Orruks and Cities are coming before bonereapers in October right? So in the next 4 weeks you will get BOTH the new tomes. Also this whole 2.0 release has been about updating armies to the 2.0 system far more than it has been about models. GW has to balance updating models, releasing new models and releasing new armies all at once across mutiple game systems. 40K is already seeing a new wave of models coming through their new campaign which is looking to replace a lot of the finecast. Lets also not forget that Slaanesh and  Goblins got pretty big releases this last year along with lots of little additions here. Plus we got 6 warbands for Warcry (which is basically a massive boost to Slaves to Darkness - the final army that still has no Battletome and is likely a release early next year at this stage - so even further off than both those new Tomes). 

Hey you are a big fan... I get it,  problem is that you ignored the majority of my point and went into damage control for Games workshop, you rushed into listing everything they have done or say they will do in hopes of smothering my concerns, not cool and pretty intellectually dishonest mate . There hasn't been a official date or update release (believe me I look every day) as to when either will come out, and company reps at the last three public events said they didn't want to talk about the books. BTW Goblins was last year.... and updating has been going on for 18 months... warcry is an entirely new game with the same setting and along with Bonereapers is a product announced after the two Battletomes were announced. 

Also, I guess you were not aware of the whole disaster that was the Sylvaneth release? for the rest of us it was a real bell-weather about older and existing army releases and updates. 

Perhaps next time you could just post: "Hey Matador, I don't like that you are criticizing GW." and spare us the unrelated spin please. 

 

[Matador]

21 hours ago, Sleboda said:

That's great news! 

Dunno about others, but I had not seen that post.  Where was it? (Don't say Facebook Don't say Facebook Don't say Facebook)

Sadly mate, it's not news and it's not specific and wasn't able to be confirmed by GW staff.  It comes from the right place, but it's misguided loyalty performing damage control for GW. 

[Matador]

21 hours ago, Mutton said:

It's fine. Have patience. We'll see the books when we see them. Rage posts don't do anyone any good.

Not a rage post buddy, not at all. It's a warning and call to arms post from someone who watched Sylvaneth (most recently) players get hosed. 

[Matador]

17 hours ago, Eldarain said:

It's fun exaggerating. Some consistency would be nice.

There is usually some method to their madness. They tease something. Time goes by. They start previewing it. It comes out. Rinse, repeat.

For some reason with this specific release they teased it. Added a savage cull of the model lines associated with it. Then spent the summer announcing things and immediately releasing them or putting up previews before the preorder week in Beastgraves case.

One could argue the release that most needed communication from the creator has been completely ignored since the culling of the existing minis.

That's really at the heart of the issue gang, the different divisions of the company are not are on the same page. The results, or lack of results are at the detriment of customers. Remember that folks, we are customers. 

[Matador]

17 hours ago, Gaz Taylor said:

+++ Mod Hat On +++

Just a warning - I’m leaving this thread unlocked as I think people need to have their say, however if you do please follow the rules of TGA (basically be constructive, nice to others and No swearing).

Just bear in mind that we have no idea what has been happening behind the scenes for the logistics and also we have seen some quite big releases since the announcement (Three new games by end of next week, loads of new models and of course space Marines which make GW a lot of money).

So if you feel you need to vent, just be constructive, nice to others and no swearing 

Thanks

Very aware boss   

This really isn't venting, (useless exercise I've found) but actually a well intended and urgent warning for customers to speak up so this type of thing does not become the set pattern when GW notes they can pull it.  As you know doubt know many of us have mates in the various outlets and within the company, and more than a few of us have heard how GW gauges customer response quarterly and it impacts not only content but the price and manner in which content is released. 

Now if this content existed in a vacuum it wouldn't be an issue, but  GW content isn't. The releases and creation of product has a constant and considerably impact on customers previous purchases both positive and negative. The reason that matters is because GW has used that relation to drive revenue, it's a core part of their business plan since AoS came out,  ah! but for that same reason GW has entered into a pact with it's customers, if they can use their impact on previous purchases to increase or devalue the product they need to be responsible and transparent with the customers they are impacting. 

Cheers  

[Matador]

17 hours ago, Kramer said:

Your better off arranging trade embargoes if you want to influence the release schedule because you can rage all you want but no way they’re changing the schedule. 😂

tge only thing you can feasibly achieve is next time we won’t heae anything about until the week of pre-order. And I personally prefer s bit more info before then. 

Not looking to force release mate (not that high). Rather looking to inform  GW that the current model (model get it? haha) isn't working and that their paying customers do not want to see a repeat of it or the failure of the Sylvaneth release. 

Simply put, if you are going to announced a product that will impact previous content purchased by costumers to drive interest and revenue, make regular official updates on the impending release AND what impact it will have, with an close eye on the other aspects of the customer's input in the absence of official comment I.E. model purges, etc...

[Overread]

@Matador a post or two down from mine that you quote someone else remembered the news article where update was given

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/09/07/a-bone-to-pickgw-homepage-post-2/

"Can’t wait for more goodness from the Mortal Realms? Don’t fret – before these guys arrive, both Order and Destruction aficionados will have a chance to bolster their defences with new battletomes coming in the next few weeks."

 

We don't know the date, but we know that it will be within the next 4 to 5 (at utter worst) weeks that the Battletomes will be released. 

[Matador]

16 hours ago, Mcprowlington said:

But for most announcements this is par for the course. 

Actually it's not mate. Have tracked last 4 years, the only comparable instance is the Sylvaneth disaster this year, which is why it's important to nip this pattern in the bud if it's the idea of some clever young lad GW hired in February (looking at you Nigel). 

So rather than see my call to arms as a venting/whine see it as a what it was intended a call to let GW know it's not acceptable practice to their customers. 

[Matador]

15 hours ago, Mcthew said:

The release schedule has been mad at GW recently. 

Fair enough, then don't announce a product and squat models associate with said product until you are ready..... see? simple. GW needs to show the respect for their customers/partners that they did previously in the AoS product. 

[Matador]

15 hours ago, EccentricCircle said:

There is a positive to take from this. GWs communication used to be bad all the time, now it has improved to the level where people get cross about a lack of previews, since we've come to expect that they'll try to hype things up. A few years back this would have been business as usual.

 

Not cross about the preview mate, concerned about the new tactic to announce preview followed by model cull followed by months of silence while competitive scene is tossed about and previous and possible purchases impacted. 

[Matador]

14 hours ago, Kasper said:

 I don't think it is unreasonable to expect something as a consumer.

Exactly. Especially as GW has gone to great lengths to maximize profit from the community engagement business model in the last 4 years, making wholesale changes that impact previous purchases positively and negatively to drive revenue. 

[Overread]

2 minutes ago, Matador said:

Fair enough, then don't announce a product and squat models associate with said product until you are ready..... see? simple. GW needs to show the respect for their customers/partners that they did previously in the AoS product. 

Thing is GW kinda has 20 years experience of doing just that before the last 4 or 5 years. 

That said none of us are disagreeing that more info sooner wouldn't be good; nor that they should have paired the removal closer to the release date. Heck they should have been more upfront about things like the future of the HE line. However for whatever reason GW plays it close to their ches.t I think part of this is because GW is fragmented internally. Part of their barrier to leaks is that, from what I can gather, they've a LOT of departments operating without knowing what other departments are doing. Heck when AoS launched there were many at GW HQ who were shocked and surprised as the fans were - and these are the people working at the very core of GW. Suffice it to say that I think that departmental barrier element has reamined even with the changes we've seen over the last few years - its a legacy that might be hard to shift. I think its also one that has likely fostered more than a few inter-departmental rivalries and dramas of its own so it might have some fuel behind it until some newer generations make it into higher positions or they get another shakeup. 

 

 

WE've seen oddities like bases changing in the rules but clearly no one told production and packing and then GW having to retcon the base change because none of the stock holds the "new base" size.

[Matador]

13 hours ago, Chikout said:

In gw land where they are planning up to 5 years ahead, 

This hasn't been the case for several years mate, they adopted a much more nimble and flexible model to drive revenue in 2013 and when done right it's been great..... but when done wrong as in this case and the Sylvaneth it's detrimental, and unless we as customers make out displeasure known it could very well continue.  

[Matador]

11 hours ago, Dead Scribe said:

I would expect you aren't hearing anything about free people book because there aren't really going to be new models and the warscrolls are likely not going to be changed much at all.  Its going to probably have some new abilities and spells, and cull a good part of the collection to legends.  

Unlike the new undead force which is all new models, so they will highlight that.

So true, so true.  I honestly I don't begrudge them that at all. Merely that they avoid a release being announced with no  clear intention followed by a cull that intersects with the  product   when clearly they are focused on getting a new product like the Bonereapers and Warcry out the door.

[Matador]

11 hours ago, Overread said:

It's surprising how long GW has allowed the cull and release to be separated. One would have thought they'd have wanted to pair them close together, esp as the cull didn't have GW casting to replace (working to a deadline) and was clearly more working to stock running out. Thus GW can be sure that many didn't get all they wanted and are sitting on potential money for more sales for current models. Normally one would expect both to happen on the same day or at least within a week or so of each other. 

Yeah. That's a huge part of the problem, the failures scheduling between divisions (Battletomes, figures) combined with the official radio silence on the issue and release amplify the problem and impact previous customers disproportionately.

Bad form all around. 

Let's let GW know this isn't acceptable to their customers folks, post early and post often on facebook, youtube and take a minute to send an email to GW. 

[Matador]

11 hours ago, Overread said:

Lack of buying is most certainly happening as people are saving to see what happens.

Indeed, and I would encourage folks who are holding off on a purchase to at the very least let your hobby store know why, but really the best move is to send an email to GW letting them know what you are holding off buying and why. 

[Overread]

4 minutes ago, Matador said:

Yeah. That's a huge part of the problem, the failures scheduling between divisions (Battletomes, figures) combined with the official radio silence on the issue and release amplify the problem and impact previous customers disproportionately.

Bad form all around. 

Let's let GW know this isn't acceptable to their customers folks, post early and post often on facebook, youtube and take a minute to send an email to GW. 

I think GW know. The real trick is getting them to change policy and that's hard because we don't know the background reasons for the current policy and situation. We could be screaming at the front lines (Community support) and yet they might be well in the know and pushing internally for just the changes we want. Ergo they end up stuck in a spot between a rock and a shouting mob of insane fans. 

It's made harder because GW see the actual global sales whilst we only hear the noise from the noisy active online community which is many times smaller than the "real world" one. 

[Matador]

9 hours ago, Vasshpit said:

@Thiagoma

Ive heard GW is prettt good about returns. Just explain the situation and I'd imagine they'd refund or give credit. 

Once again, if you return something absolutely let them know if it was driven by the release nonsense so they know customers don't like the new pattern and are voting with their money. 

[Matador]

9 hours ago, SaJeel said:

Is it correct that Cities of Sigmar was only previewed Two months ago today?

nope. 

[Matador]

9 hours ago, sandlemad said:

Considering this thread started with a suggestion that we start a Gamergate movement, yes.

I sympathise to a degree but this - and the fevered conspiracy-mongering over the last while, just because GW hasn't put out recent news is no reason to work yourself into hysterics about a book being secretly suppressed - is pathetic.

Thanks!  no conspiracy mate, you missed the point (by accident?) the announcement timing, the dearth of official news combined with the cull are the concern, especially as they may forewarn us of the new pattern for GW releases on existing (already purchased) products. 

As to "is pathetic" hehe did you really think I would bite that troll cake? hehe

[Overread]

The most likely metric GW will listen too is the sales ratings once the Tome does go on sale. They can anticipate slow sales now after the panic and disgruntlement; but in general its the sales once it launches that will speak far stronger to them. 

[Kirjava13]

9 hours ago, sandlemad said:

Considering this thread started with a suggestion that we start a Gamergate movement, yes.

I sympathise to a degree but this - and the fevered conspiracy-mongering over the last while, just because GW hasn't put out recent news is no reason to work yourself into hysterics about a book being secretly suppressed - is pathetic.

I feel a bit bad bringing something up from two pages ago, but as someone very much not on the side of that Gamergate nonsense, I felt an urge to point out that OP didn't say that we should start a "Gamergate" movement. They said "Gamerrage", and I'm pretty confident that the capitalisation was unintended. No need to characterise it as pathetic either. As someone who had several Stormfiend and Poison Wind Mortar models invalidated by GW in the Skaven battletome, I sympathise with the Cities players- a little bit of empathy, rather than accusing people of whining, might go a little way.