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5 hours ago, zilberfrid said:

I don't think it is.

Ward save for non-heroes or monsters at 66% chance is very good, as is the spell resistance, damage output is very good. BUT he has only 4" speed, and for monsters and heroes, his save is only 5+. 

He probably falls in one round to a General on Griffin (with his own inspire ability and charging, the general deals an average of 3.125 damage with his lance, 3.9 damage with its beak, and 3.3 damage with its claws to this version of Gotrek. Probably still around 4-5 damage without command ability and charge), if that general decides to engage him (I don't know heroes very well, others might also work as well as this one).

Wording is bad though. Reading it logically, you would come to this conclusion:

If wound inflicted AND NOT hero or monster melee: 3+ ward save.

If wound inflicted AND hero or monster with ranged: 3+ ward save.

If wound inflicted AND hero or monster melee: no ward save.

If wound inflicted AND NOT hero or monster with ranged: no ward save.

Have you factored that each successful attack against him can only do 1 damage? 

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Yeaaah, ok then. Anyone saying this guy isn't competitive is off their rocker. I appreciate he's expensive, but his only weakness is speed and if you can drop cogs he has a threat range around 17.5" with the reroll charge command ability.  Or you can use a command point to run him on an objective and just own that point for the rest of the game. 

He'll walk through any magic heavy army because it takes 24 successful spells (because each spell can only do 1 damage to him) to kill him on average. He'll walk through any combat focused army. A ranged heavy army miiiight just kill him before he fights, but it'll take 48 successful wounds at rend 0 to kill him. Oh, and he can be healed so those numbers could be even worse .

He does an average of 30 wounds to a 4+ save opponent per combat phase. You can play around half the damage by removing the models close to him, preventing the double pile in, but that doesn't help if he's gotten to one of your heroes or monsters. It also ensures he's free to move and charge whatever he wants to in the next turn. 

I'd expect some serious nerfs for him next year, but for now I think we've entered the Age of Gotrek. Start filling your lists with cheap chaff to stall him as long as possible, you're going to need them.

 

Edited by Grimrock
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1 minute ago, Whitefang said:

A Stormcast Eternal now

Gotrek just assumes he is. It's not confirmed so far.

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30 minutes ago, Laststand said:

Have you factored that each successful attack against him can only do 1 damage? 

That was for a proposed other Gotrek.

This Gotrek dies to 600 points of crossbowmen with a general spending one CP in a single round.

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1 hour ago, KHHaunts said:

Apologise for the wording it i did it on my phone is about 3 minutes . . . .

Sorry, I thought this was a GW design document

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1 minute ago, zilberfrid said:

That was for a proposed other Gotrek.

This Gotrek dies to 600 points of crossbowmen with a general spending one CP in a single round.

Do I misunderstand the rules that bad? Because he clearly says "if attack, spell or ability does more than 1 damage, change it to 1." That seems pretty cut n dry.

Also factor in that Gotrek gets look out sir and also chaff is a thing for Gotrek too, i.e. yeah if he just stands in front of your firing squad he is toast but fat chance of a good player obliging you in that manner.

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9 minutes ago, Panzer said:

Gotrek just assumes he is. It's not confirmed so far.

Right, but he is almost confirmed in Hammerhal, Stormcast seems to be the only choice?

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2 minutes ago, Deepkin said:

Do I misunderstand the rules that bad? Because he clearly says "if attack, spell or ability does more than 1 damage, change it to 1." That seems pretty cut n dry.

It means no single attack/spell/ability can do more than 1 damage to him; his weakness (besides his abysmal speed) is massed 1-damage attacks. So Crossbowmen, Glade Guard, Plague Monks (if his base is large enough for them to crowd around), etc. 

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22 minutes ago, Grimrock said:

Yeaaah, ok then. Anyone saying this guy isn't competitive is off their rocker. I appreciate he's expensive, but his only weakness is speed and if you can drop cogs he has a threat range around 17.5" with the reroll charge command ability.  Or you can use a command point to run him on an objective and just own that point for the rest of the game. 

He'll walk through any magic heavy army because it takes 24 successful spells (because each spell can only do 1 damage to him) to kill him on average. He'll walk through any combat focused army. A ranged heavy army miiiight just kill him before he fights, but it'll take 48 successful wounds at rend 0 to kill him. Oh, and he can be healed so those numbers could be even worse .

He does an average of 30 wounds to a 4+ save opponent per combat phase. You can play around half the damage by removing the models close to him, preventing the double pile in, but that doesn't help if he's gotten to one of your heroes or monsters. It also ensures he's free to move and charge whatever he wants to in the next turn. 

I'd expect some serious nerfs for him next year, but for now I think we've entered the Age of Gotrek. Start filling your lists with cheap chaff to stall him as long as possible, you're going to need them.

 

First thought as a seraphon player is to jam him in a summon heavy list with the intent of summoning tons of skinks to follow in his wake. I agree about the fact that ppl are saying he isn't competitive- my war gaming group believes the movement it was makes him unviable. If you take COGs he can act as a hammer which for most missions guarantees board control on which ever side he is running into combat too. 

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Upon 2nd reading, I also think zilberfried may have meant his original post that was quoted was in reference to someones speculated Gotrek rules, which makes his response make more sense :D

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6 minutes ago, Whitefang said:

Right, but he is almost confirmed in Hammerhal, Stormcast seems to be the only choice?

Spoilers for Realmslayer but...

Spoiler

Gotrek more or less concludes that even if he is a Stormcast now, he will have lost his memory to the point that he won't really be the Felix that Gotrek remembers.

 

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42 minutes ago, zilberfrid said:

This would be an awful list, but it's 9 models

I'm thinking...

Gotrek / 520

Lord Arcanum on Gryph Charger / 220

5 x Sequitors / 130

5 x Sequitors / 130

1000pts and as a bonus I actually get to do something with the Stormcast from my Soul Wars set.

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2 minutes ago, Deepkin said:

Upon 2nd reading, I also think zilberfried may have meant his original post that was quoted was in reference to someones speculated Gotrek rules, which makes his response make more sense :D

Yeah, that was the case. That Gotrek was different

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Just now, JPjr said:

I'm thinking...

Gotrek / 520

Lord Arcanum on Gryph Charger / 220

5 x Sequitors / 130

5 x Sequitors / 130

1000pts and as a bonus I actually get to do something with the Stormcast from my Soul Wars set.

You are missing a rearguard.

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A cost of 520is way way wayyyy overcosted,around 350-400 would be the number.

Have around 12-16 damage output 

Have  as 13 real wounds (when we take the 3++ in count then goes from 8 to 13)

Move of 4"

 

So we have models as stardrake or allariele with around this cost,that does around this damage,have more wounds,a better save of 3, have 14-16" move and free sumon or rangued mortal wound output.

So who think 520 points is cheap dont have idea about maths because every model of 520 points have way way way better stats than him.

 

Heck even a verminlord for 240 points have better stats than gotrek

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1 minute ago, prochuvi said:

A cost of 520is way way wayyyy overcosted,around 350-400 would be the number.

Have around 12-16 damage output 

Have  as 13 real wounds (when we take the 3++ in count then goes from 8 to 13)

Move of 4"

 

So we have models as stardrake or allariele with around this cost,that does around this damage,have more wounds,a better save of 3, have 14-16" move and free sumon or rangued mortal wound output.

So who think 520 points is cheap dont have idea about maths because every model of 520 points have way way way better stats than him.

 

Heck even a verminlord for 240 points have better stats than gotrek

Basically all your assumptions here are wrong... I would suggest you closely reread all his warscroll abilities. Also your numbers as guesstimates has zero impact on the discussion; either math it out or don't bring it up at all. 

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9 minutes ago, prochuvi said:

A cost of 520is way way wayyyy overcosted,around 350-400 would be the number.

Have around 12-16 damage output 

Have  as 13 real wounds (when we take the 3++ in count then goes from 8 to 13)

Move of 4"

 

So we have models as stardrake or allariele with around this cost,that does around this damage,have more wounds,a better save of 3, have 14-16" move and free sumon or rangued mortal wound output.

So who think 520 points is cheap dont have idea about maths because every model of 520 points have way way way better stats than him.

 

Heck even a verminlord for 240 points have better stats than gotrek

Good Troll post  0_o

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Story wise I don't think we'll see Felix return - if we do it won't be for a very long while. Gotreks new Dark Aelf companion is shaping up to be very neat and honestly I rather like how she's got a very different take on her relationship with the Dwarf. I think GW will focus on and build on that far more so and will save Felix for the future. 

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Fun fact:

You can use Prayer of Grimnir's Fury on Gotrek to allow him to fight in the hero phase

Edited by PJetski
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1 hour ago, PJetski said:

Fun fact:

You can use Prayer of Grimnir's Fury on Gotrek to allow him to fight in the hero phase

It doesn't require the chosen hero to have the Fyreslayer keyword, good shout! :)🙂😉

 

Thinking about putting magnets on my Gotrek's feet and giving him a different pile of dead things to stand on for each army he faces....

Edited by Double Misfire
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As an ally to Ionrach, does he not then get run+charge turn 2 and fight first turn 3?

And can also screen him with Ishlaen guard because of Forgotten Nightmares. 

Is Gotrek a better Eidolon than the Eidolon?

Edited by Deepkin

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12 minutes ago, Double Misfire said:

It doesn't require the chosen hero to have the Fyreslayer keyword, good shout! :)🙂😉

 

Thinking about putting magnets on my Gore's feel and giving him a different pile of dead things to stand on for each army he faces....

That would be awesome!

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1 hour ago, zilberfrid said:

This Gotrek dies to 600 points of crossbowmen with a general spending one CP in a single round.

Yeah I think free people probably have the best shot against him with the high volume of low damage attacks, but that could change in the new battletome too. Most armies can't put down that much fire though. Even tzeentch would have an extremely difficult time bring him down before he started cleaving his way through important units.  Plus any army that's willing to dump the resources required to kill him will be giving the rest of his army a free pass for multiple turns.

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