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Personally, those who say they are unfamiliar with the lore as an explanation of why they think Gotrek shouldn't be so OP need to familiarize themselves with the lore.  There's practically no one that Gotrek can't kill. And Gotrek himself is nigh-unkillable. The WS is fine once the wording on his Avatar ability is clarified.

For weak Order armies, he is a god-send, literally.

Edited by Televiper11

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Yes but according to the Lore Nagash rules DEATH - he can snap a finger and your whole army is DEAD

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18 hours ago, PlasticCraic said:

I've written up a Blog post on the Wee Man, check it out:

https://plasticcraic.blog/2019/09/12/gotrek-hot-takes-and-how-to-handle-him/

There's some practical, mechanical advice on dealing with him in there, that could hopefully be of help to people who are struggling,

This was fantastic, required reading for anyone who think this model is OP.

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8 minutes ago, Overread said:

Yes but according to the Lore Nagash rules DEATH - he can snap a finger and your whole army is DEAD

I actually wouldn't have a problem with a mechanic that reflects that.

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36 minutes ago, Overread said:

Yes but according to the Lore Nagash rules DEATH - he can snap a finger and your whole army is DEAD

They don't state it very clearly, but I believe the nagash we see on the table is a "shard" or "avatar" of nagash. Old bone boy just chills on his throne 24/7 like sigmar does and manifests these mini nagash's to go around and do stuff when the mortarchs ****** up. I could be remembering it wrong so feel free to correct me.

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On 9/12/2019 at 3:31 PM, sal4m4nd3r said:

5 blightkings deal about 1-2 wounds to him, if you roll average amount of 6s and each 6 to hit turns into 3.5 hits. 

15 attacks. 10 hits. I aired on the side of the blightkings here and figured there would be 2 6s. so 8 regular hits + 7 extra attacks. Thats 15 hits. 10 wounds. 5 get through his armor. He maybe fails 2 of those. 

I guess Im being a bit of a whiny little butt muncher. I'm STILL a bit salty blightkings didnt get unmodified 6s and Glott, plaguebearers, and horticulous didn't go down in points. 

Your blightkings are gonna have their buffs up though. How does the math shift when your plus to hit and wound and all that Jazz, because you have the strategic initiative, and your kings have several buffs that are not hard for you to get them?

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Blightkings don't have access to very many offensive abilities (big part of why we want the unmodified ruling on the exploding 6s)

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Well according to the lore Gotrek’s new axe is far weaker than his original ones

So expect something more impressive when (if) he got his own axe back

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22 hours ago, Overread said:

Yes but according to the Lore Nagash rules DEATH - he can snap a finger and your whole army is DEAD

Well , if we play that way we wouldn’t play at all?  At least gotrek doesn’t take a whole phase of the game away from me like nagash does.

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2 hours ago, Whitefang said:

Well according to the lore Gotrek’s new axe is far weaker than his original ones

So expect something more impressive when (if) he got his own axe back

Well should he ever find his missing axe, surely more than just the grey master thanqoul might be in danger, probably even the gods might start to fear him, even sigmar.

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2 minutes ago, Skreech Verminking said:

Well should he ever find his missing axe, surely more than just the grey master thanqoul might be in danger, probably even the gods might start to fear him, even sigmar.

I think it will be the same moment when Fyreslayers finally resurrect Grimnir...only for Gotrek to end him again.

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19 minutes ago, michu said:

I think it will be the same moment when Fyreslayers finally resurrect Grimnir...only for Gotrek to end him again.

Well it would be one grudge settled😂😂

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It will be a long wait though! If they do with Gotrek now what they did in the past (which having read the general articles by GW about Gotrek sounds like it will be the case) then they are going to take Gotrek on a full tour of the Mortal Realms through the books. This means not just visiting all 8, but also visiting every major faction within the game; plus perhaps a few of the minor ones. Gotreks original series took us everywhere, from the lands of vampires and ghouls to the warped mania of the Chaos Wastes. Through core stories you see the lands of Albion (inhabited by Scots and Amazons); through short stories even the lands of the Araby are others are seen. 

Lands and races both in models and those that never came to be appear within the stories. The idea being that Gotrek and Felix - now Malaneth - are going to likely tour the lands and through him introduce many of the peoples and races. It's also a neat way to get in at the ground roots as whilst they might often deal with kings and mages, they also dealt with the commoners and regular people of those lands. It can give a really insightful and world building look at some of the functional areas of the world. 

 

 

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On 9/13/2019 at 9:49 PM, Overread said:

Yes but according to the Lore Nagash rules DEATH - he can snap a finger and your whole army is DEAD

True xD

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Not sure if this is Gotrek General Chat or not, but I've just finished a two part review and spoiler summary of Realmslayer: Blood of the Old World if anyone's interested (spoilers: it's a really good listen):

REVIEW: Realmslayer: Blood of The Old World - Part 1: No Spoilers

REVIEW: Realmslayer: Blood of the Old World - Part 2: Spoilertastic Summary

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I’ ve finished the ghoulslayer yeaterday

There are indeed some inconsistency with former realmslayer and battletome but I think overall the story itself is good.

It could be more exciting to read if there is a more surprising plot though.

Edited by Whitefang

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5 hours ago, Double Misfire said:

Apparently so.

Not a full audio drama with Brian Blessed and a large cast though!

Huh, it's not showing up for me. Must be a location thing.

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On 9/14/2019 at 5:49 AM, Overread said:

Yes but according to the Lore Nagash rules DEATH - he can snap a finger and your whole army is DEAD

I'm not sure where this idea comes from but having read most of the AOS books regarding him and other gods in the Mortal Realms I've never read anything to suggest Nagash or anyone else has the power to just unmake an entire army.

The problem is we assume a "God" has the same power and abilities as the Judeo-Christian "God" or monotheistic god were used too but that is not true at all among the mortal realms.

In the Age of  Sigmar universe the best definition really of a god is someone of a power substantially above that of the other denizens of the realms. 

Sigmar can teleport armies across vast distances, he can see just about anywhere in the realms and he's potentially the most powerful single combatant in the material world. Possibly only Dracothian is stronger.

Nagash can summon and enslave the dead and has a vast understanding of the dark side of magic and is a near unmatched wielder of that magic, he can use spells that give him power over dead creatures and enslave those who are dead but he can not instantly kill anyone with a thought as we'd imagine a "god if death' in our real world could.

 

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13 minutes ago, cadmachine said:

I'm not sure where this idea comes from but having read most of the AOS books regarding him and other gods in the Mortal Realms I've never read anything to suggest Nagash or anyone else has the power to just unmake an entire army.

The problem is we assume a "God" has the same power and abilities as the Judeo-Christian "God" or monotheistic god were used too but that is not true at all among the mortal realms.

In the Age of  Sigmar universe the best definition really of a god is someone of a power substantially above that of the other denizens of the realms. 

Sigmar can teleport armies across vast distances, he can see just about anywhere in the realms and he's potentially the most powerful single combatant in the material world. Possibly only Dracothian is stronger.

Nagash can summon and enslave the dead and has a vast understanding of the dark side of magic and is a near unmatched wielder of that magic, he can use spells that give him power over dead creatures and enslave those who are dead but he can not instantly kill anyone with a thought as we'd imagine a "god if death' in our real world could.

 

You need to read more then.

Try Nagash the undying king and Black pyramid 

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22 minutes ago, Whitefang said:

You need to read more then.

Try Nagash the undying king and Black pyramid 

I have and in neither book does Nagash use innate ability to click his fingers and instantly kill an entire army.

His powers are bolstered immensely by the black pyramid and even so he was unable to defeat the Stormcast and their allies defensing Glymmsforge, for instance.

 

Edited by cadmachine
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I think it's important to remember that the model we place on the tabletop isn't necessarily going to live up to the legend that they've got in stories and the background.  In all honesty a book that was written based on what happens during a game wouldn't actually be very interesting!

Quote

"And the last thing I saw before being reforged on the Anvil of Apotheosis was the toothy grin of a skeleton warrior as it thrust it's spear towards the rent in my armour"

or

Quote

"It was all going well for Herbert, until he heard the toot toot of a heraldor and was crushed beneath a falling branch"

Because of this some characters are able to perform actions that could never be represented on the tabletop - Nagash killing Tamra's clan in Undying King for example is a good example of this.  Equally his ability to release his essence from his physical form, trundle off somewhere else and then rebuild a body from skeletons and bones nearby isn't something that we're going to be able to do in a game.  Nothing stopping you coming up with some appropriate rules with some friends though!

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2 hours ago, cadmachine said:

I'm not sure where this idea comes from but having read most of the AOS books regarding him and other gods in the Mortal Realms I've never read anything to suggest Nagash or anyone else has the power to just unmake an entire army.

The problem is we assume a "God" has the same power and abilities as the Judeo-Christian "God" or monotheistic god were used too but that is not true at all among the mortal realms.

In the Age of  Sigmar universe the best definition really of a god is someone of a power substantially above that of the other denizens of the realms. 

Sigmar can teleport armies across vast distances, he can see just about anywhere in the realms and he's potentially the most powerful single combatant in the material world. Possibly only Dracothian is stronger.

Nagash can summon and enslave the dead and has a vast understanding of the dark side of magic and is a near unmatched wielder of that magic, he can use spells that give him power over dead creatures and enslave those who are dead but he can not instantly kill anyone with a thought as we'd imagine a "god if death' in our real world could.

 

^this

He's a god of death (like there used to be many before he ate them btw). He rules over the dead. Bodies and souls. That doesn't mean he can just kill living beings just like that. They are still living and thus outside of his powers. So he needs to create minions and send them to the living to kill them before he can actually use his powers on them.

 

Though there's more about being a god in AoS than it being someone enormously powerful. They are indeed special existences. They gain power the more mortal followers they have and they can give power to their followers. They can also only see into realms where they have a presence, be it because part of them is there or because they have mortal followers there. Sigmar can see into almost every realm because his mortal followers are so widespread across the realms.

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I always thought that AoS gods are more close to Dark Souls Gods than OP ones that traditional religions.
They walk among living, they can be hurt and put down on their knees, some weapons can kill them too, we know that there are some entities than can drink their power (Morathi), etc... 

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