Gotrek rules

[Undeadly]

Honestly, it's somewhat weird that he can be taken in any order army as an ally. Why not just make him only GA: Order in the first place?

[Double Misfire]

52 minutes ago, Deepkin said:

As an ally to Ionrach, does he not then get run+charge turn 2 and fight first turn 3?

And can also screen him with Ishlaen guard because of Forgotten Nightmares. 

Is Gotrek a better Eidolon than the Eidolon?

Holy poop, that's a pretty tasty combo.

Brb, modelling Gotrek with a snorkel

[bsharitt]

So many people saying Gotrek is overpower or under powered, I can only conclude that he mush be pretty balanced.

[Belper]

38 minutes ago, Grimrock said:

Yeah I think free people probably have the best shot against him with the high volume of low damage attacks, but that could change in the new battletome too. Most armies can't put down that much fire though. Even tzeentch would have an extremely difficult time bring him down before he started cleaving his way through important units.  Plus any army that's willing to dump the resources required to kill him will be giving the rest of his army a free pass for multiple turns.

Why kill him? If you ring around the rosy him with a cheap unit like dogs or Khinerai, you lock him out of the game for at least 2 turns.

[Grimrock]

3 minutes ago, Belper said:

Why kill him? If you ring around the rosy him with a cheap unit like dogs or Khinerai, you lock him out of the game for at least 2 turns.

Not sure exactly what you mean, but yeah screening is going to have to be to go to strategy for most armies. Keep in mind though, with cogs he can still get around small screens and he'll have a whole army behind him too. If he's allied with a shootcast army or free people they can just nuke the screen from range and let him go free. Plus he can kill most screens in one round so you won't be tying him up for long, especially if he gets a double turn.

[zilberfrid]

27 minutes ago, Grimrock said:

Yeah I think free people probably have the best shot against him with the high volume of low damage attacks, but that could change in the new battletome too. Most armies can't put down that much fire though. Even tzeentch would have an extremely difficult time bring him down before he started cleaving his way through important units.  Plus any army that's willing to dump the resources required to kill him will be giving the rest of his army a free pass for multiple turns.

Darkshards could also do it with a bit of difficulty, Ungol Raiders can kite him, Arrowboys have three attacks per dude, so that will also work. Goblin shootas, skavenIrondrakes have two attacks at good stats, but of course miss range a bit (same with handguns, outriders and such). Vanguard raptors with hurricane crossbows also make a crapton of attacks. 9 per model at reasonable numbers (doing about 1.5 damage per round per model.

[Televiper11]

3 hours ago, AthlorianStoners said:

I really want to play him now haha, I guess I might start a small force to use him when CoS drops. Maybe run an all Duardin force.

My plan exactly: Gotrek, Warden King, Runelord, and battleline Steam Tanks.

[Televiper11]

I secretly hope they don't nerf him down the road. I like the idea of a god-tier character who isn't an actual gargantuan model like Acheron, etc.

[Grimrock]

2 minutes ago, zilberfrid said:

Darkshards could also do it with a bit of difficulty, Ungol Raiders can kite him, Arrowboys have three attacks per dude, so that will also work. Goblin shootas, skavenIrondrakes have two attacks at good stats, but of course miss range a bit (same with handguns, outriders and such). Vanguard raptors with hurricane crossbows also make a crapton of attacks. 9 per model at reasonable numbers (doing about 1.5 damage per round per model.

I'm not solid on all the buffs out there, but if you don't have rend it'll take about 48 succesful ranged attacks to kill him. So for hurricane crossbows (4+/4+)  you would need 192 shots, or 9 models firing all shots at him for two rounds. That doesn't account for 'look out sir'. Shootas would need 288 shots from large units. 

Not saying he can't be killed, but the investment for most armies are far from trivial. He could also run the palisade to block LoS, have some healing magic, run with the deepkin to prevent being targeted... Lots of options to keep him safe until he wrecks face.

[zilberfrid]

3 minutes ago, Televiper11 said:

My plan exactly: Gotrek, Warden King, Runelord, and battleline Steam Tanks.

I think a dwarven cannon, a dwarven organ gun and a few shields could make an excellent Steam Tank.

[Belper]

3 hours ago, Grimrock said:

Yeaaah, ok then. Anyone saying this guy isn't competitive is off their rocker. I appreciate he's expensive, but his only weakness is speed and if you can drop cogs he has a threat range around 17.5" with the reroll charge command ability.  Or you can use a command point to run him on an objective and just own that point for the rest of the game. 

He'll walk through any magic heavy army because it takes 24 successful spells (because each spell can only do 1 damage to him) to kill him on average. He'll walk through any combat focused army. A ranged heavy army miiiight just kill him before he fights, but it'll take 48 successful wounds at rend 0 to kill him. Oh, and he can be healed so those numbers could be even worse .

He does an average of 30 wounds to a 4+ save opponent per combat phase. You can play around half the damage by removing the models close to him, preventing the double pile in, but that doesn't help if he's gotten to one of your heroes or monsters. It also ensures he's free to move and charge whatever he wants to in the next turn. 

I'd expect some serious nerfs for him next year, but for now I think we've entered the Age of Gotrek. Start filling your lists with cheap chaff to stall him as long as possible, you're going to need them.

 

Or you could just kill him with large amounts of low quality attacks. It only takes 48 wounds to kill him on average (assuming no rend) a unit of witch aelves does 20 more damage than that without mindrazor OR full rerolls.

Plus he's not going to be in a decent charge range until turn 3 without investment and the more you invest in him, the less he'll do. So you get Cogs, that's 180pts minimum extra. The you need run and charge, that locks you into specific armies and costs even more points. 

If he hits a chaff unit at any point he's pretty much out of the game and you don't really have enough points left after putting 700+ into Gotrek already to keep board control.

If he goes up against Legions of Nagash he pretty much auto loses because any movement debuff will put him out of the game.

That said, if you take him with DoK, he'll be absolutely brutal. Two units of WE, a Cauldron 2 Hag Queens a medusa and another battle line is only 1370 and is fairly difficult to deal with as is. Adding Gotrek puts it to 1890, which still leaves you room for Cogs.  

Edit: Bad math.

Edited September 5, 2019 by Belper

[zilberfrid]

4 minutes ago, Grimrock said:

I'm not solid on all the buffs out there, but if you don't have rend it'll take about 48 succesful ranged attacks to kill him. So for hurricane crossbows (4+/4+)  you would need 192 shots, or 9 models firing all shots at him for two rounds. That doesn't account for 'look out sir'. Shootas would need 288 shots from large units. 

Not saying he can't be killed, but the investment for most armies are far from trivial. He could also run the palisade to block LoS, have some healing magic, run with the deepkin to prevent being targeted... Lots of options to keep him safe until he wrecks face.

Yeah, I think focus fire from two units of Crossbowmen with a General to provide Hold the Line is the best way to go about it.

Especially in a Great Company with a screen of Guard. Militia if you are feeling devious.

I like Freeguild being the best option for something.

Edited September 5, 2019 by zilberfrid

[Televiper11]

6 minutes ago, zilberfrid said:

I think a dwarven cannon, a dwarven organ gun and a few shields could make an excellent Steam Tank.

Good point. The tanks themselves are kinda weak.

[Forrix]

6 minutes ago, Televiper11 said:

I secretly hope they don't nerf him down the road. I like the idea of a god-tier character who isn't an actual gargantuan model like Acheron, etc.

I was really hoping we'd get a monster on an infantry base type hero like Mephiston in 40k with the Grimwrath Berzerker when they redid the Fyreslayers battletome. I've been wanting a character like that for awhile though I was thinking 300ish points instead of 520 :P.

[zilberfrid]

1 minute ago, Televiper11 said:

Good point. The tanks themselves are kinda weak.

I meant that you could easily kitbash a steam tank from squatted Dwarf units.

Edited September 5, 2019 by zilberfrid

[JackStreicher]

7 minutes ago, Belper said:

If he hits a chaff unit at any point he's pretty much out of the game and you don't really have enough points left after putting 700+ into Gotrek already to keep board control.

 

Gotrek costs 520 pts.

 

to all the people crying „He is so op“: 

Yes he is, but he is also balanced. You won‘t kill him and he will kill anything he touches - accept that, outmaneuver him. He has only a  4“ movement and he is a single model which costs < 1/4 of your army. He is no threat and can at best defend one objective (any blob of buffed up Witches is better than him).

also: this game is about objectives, not about pure killing power. Killing power is an issue once it‘s on Models with high movement (and fly), he has neither.

Gotrek won‘t be nerfed, he doesn‘t need to - he is perfect as he is.

Edit: The Player playing Gotrek will also have to play very smartly to get the most out of this huge investment.

ALSO Gotrek can‘t be played legally as of now (unless you play GA: Order).

Edited September 5, 2019 by JackStreicher

[Deepkin]

8 minutes ago, JackStreicher said:

Gotrek costs 520 pts.

 

to all the people crying „He is so op“: 

Yes he is, but he is also balanced. You won‘t kill him and he will kill anything he touches - accept that, outmaneuver him. He has only a  4“ movement and he is a single model which costs < 1/4 of your army. He is no threat and can at best defend one objective (any blob of buffed up Witches is better than him).

also: this game is about objectives, not about pure killing power. Killing power is an issue once it‘s on Models with high movement (and fly), he has neither.

Gotrek won‘t be nerfed, he doesn‘t need to - he is perfect as he is.

Edit: The Player playing Gotrek will also have to play very smartly to get the most out of this huge investment.

ALSO Gotrek can‘t be played legally as of now (unless you play GA: Order).

He can be allied into any order army despite the points limit, per his own rules.

[Overread]

Gotrek can be legally played - his points profile specifically allows him to join armies down to 1K points (meeting engagement)  even though he exceeds the ally point limit even for a 2K army. However it also makes it so that you can't take any other allies. GW clearly pointed him up and found him way over the allies limit and thus has given him a special rule that allows him to get around it so that he can be super powered, but also appear in regular games 

[Mcthew]

Now that we know his points value, and what the new model looks like, any guesses on the princely monetary price for Gotrek when it goes for pre-order?

(Edit: the warscroll provided a moment of jaw dropping, but this could be the most expensive tiny blob of plastic GW has ever put out)

Edited September 5, 2019 by Mcthew

[zilberfrid]

2 minutes ago, Mcthew said:

Now that we know his points value, and what the new model looks like, any guesses on the princely monetary price for Gotrek when it goes for pre-order?

(Edit: the warscroll provided a moment of jaw dropping, but this could be the most expensive tiny blob of plastic GW has ever put out)

If he's more than €40, I'd rather get another griffin.

[etlm1987]

My guess is $60

[Overread]

1 minute ago, zilberfrid said:

If he's more than €40, I'd rather get another griffin.

What's even more painful is that with the Battletome situation the Freepeoples could be this weekend on the preorder preview. Or at least that its likely to appear this month, considering that October is going to be full of undead and November full of Sisters 

[Mcthew]

Well, I'm thinking between £20-25. Would be a fair price to pay. But points might inflate the value somewhat and you can never predict GWs pricing (not an exact science, I always imagine staff throwing darts at a board in Bugman's, when it comes to pricing)

[Overread]

£20-25 is a nice bracket but I think with the scenic base he could easily get into the £30-40 bracket. It's really hard to predict though as since he's a heroic character GW might consider him strong enough to price high; or something they want to price lower to generate more Gotrek interest and thus side sales through the books from BL

[Mcthew]

3 minutes ago, Overread said:

£20-25 is a nice bracket but I think with the scenic base he could easily get into the £30-40 bracket. It's really hard to predict though as since he's a heroic character GW might consider him strong enough to price high; or something they want to price lower to generate more Gotrek interest and thus side sales through the books from BL

Yeah, good points. They'll want to appeal to non-Order players just to have a legend in their collection. Price him too high and, well, players will buy Griffins instead!

Edited September 5, 2019 by Mcthew