KHHaunts Posted September 4, 2019 Share Posted September 4, 2019 I dont feel like the current version of Gotrek is anywhere near as powerful as the one we last saw in the Old World. For the majority of the audio drama he was aged. And didnt have his axe. Which fans will know increased his power over the years he carried it. Since.he dosent have it anymore he may have gotten weaker as times gone on. In addition Grimnir unlocked the rune of unbinding on the axe making him even stronger AND he was given Grimnirs other axe. At his peak we saw gotrek go toe to toe with a bloodthirster and win when in his last encounter he could only stand against it for a short period of time when it was already wounded. Gotrek has certainly taken a step forward after getting hold ofnthe master rune but has taken several steps backwards since the end times. I feel this gotrek similar to his pre "ascension" But when he gets his axe back and taps into his power oooo boy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHHaunts Posted September 4, 2019 Share Posted September 4, 2019 As for rules Take an unforged. Keep save the same or.up.it to 5+ at the most for sheer toughness. Give me some sort of destiney based bonus save. That perhaps is better or worse depending if the attacker has monster and/or hero keyword (gotrek should only go down fighting the biggest baddest thing on the table) His new axe isent a daemonslaying one as far as i know so bonus there but dependingon its abilites perhaps something similar to decapitation strike. A buff for fighting monster/or heros Something with the master rune not sure as its unclear what it does. Perhaps a healing ability? And finally upgrade "epic deathblow" to "legendary Deathblow": automatic D3 Mw upon death with a chance of atleast D3 more if not D6 on a 4+ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deepkin Posted September 4, 2019 Share Posted September 4, 2019 8 hours ago, KHHaunts said: As for rules Take an unforged. Keep save the same or.up.it to 5+ at the most for sheer toughness. Give me some sort of destiney based bonus save. That perhaps is better or worse depending if the attacker has monster and/or hero keyword (gotrek should only go down fighting the biggest baddest thing on the table) His new axe isent a daemonslaying one as far as i know so bonus there but dependingon its abilites perhaps something similar to decapitation strike. A buff for fighting monster/or heros Something with the master rune not sure as its unclear what it does. Perhaps a healing ability? And finally upgrade "epic deathblow" to "legendary Deathblow": automatic D3 Mw upon death with a chance of atleast D3 more if not D6 on a 4+ That would be profoundly underwhelming ruleswise tho. Unforged were one of the worst models in the Dispossesed list. Definitely not the caliber of rules that someone like Gotrek deserves. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kramer Posted September 4, 2019 Share Posted September 4, 2019 1 hour ago, Deepkin said: That would be profoundly underwhelming ruleswise tho. Unforged were one of the worst models in the Dispossesed list. Definitely not the caliber of rules that someone like Gotrek deserves. Would be the worst if not for the magical artefacts. (Which gotrek wouldn’t be able to get). There are some great combinations there. Mainly sword of judgement Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimM85 Posted September 4, 2019 Share Posted September 4, 2019 as long as he gets a 2up the 2up save against shooting and can actually make it across the board without getting shot off the table il be taking I don't care if he ends up amazing or rubbish as long as he doesn't get shot, magic or prayed off the table every game Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHHaunts Posted September 5, 2019 Share Posted September 5, 2019 14 hours ago, Deepkin said: That would be profoundly underwhelming ruleswise tho. Unforged were one of the worst models in the Dispossesed list. Definitely not the caliber of rules that someone like Gotrek deserves. Really? A slayer that can heal itself gains, buffs in offence and defence against monster and heros The ability to deal massive damage upon his death and an enhanced statline? I personally want Gotrek to be a playable character not juiced up to be a match for the god-tier models. Gotrek isent as powerful as Archaon or Nagash he may get more powerful but it needs to be realisitc. Also i left quite alot.of room for movement in my rules. Didnt say buffed by how much. As for choosing unforged. Hes a slayer. Hes badder than any around but he is still a shirtless spikey haired nutcase so why wouldnt his stats LOOSLEY follow another of his kind. I really hope they dont overpower him. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHHaunts Posted September 5, 2019 Share Posted September 5, 2019 12 hours ago, TimM85 said: as long as he gets a 2up the 2up save against shooting and can actually make it across the board without getting shot off the table il be taking I don't care if he ends up amazing or rubbish as long as he doesn't get shot, magic or prayed off the table every game Again thats why a "destiney" based save would be great. In other words i think his stats should make him VERY hard to kill at range or with magic and then allow his own powerful statline to come into play when dueling other powerful foes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted September 5, 2019 Share Posted September 5, 2019 I wouldn't worry about GW making him overpowered. If anything characters taken from novels and such have been rather underwhelming instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHHaunts Posted September 5, 2019 Share Posted September 5, 2019 This is what i was fearing towards and personally i think this is OPpdf.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zilberfrid Posted September 5, 2019 Share Posted September 5, 2019 (edited) 54 minutes ago, KHHaunts said: This is what i was fearing towards and personally i think this is OPpdf.pdf I don't think it is. Ward save for non-heroes or monsters at 66% chance is very good, as is the spell resistance, damage output is very good. BUT he has only 4" speed, and for monsters and heroes, his save is only 5+. He probably falls in one round to a General on Griffin (with his own inspire ability and charging, the general deals an average of 3.125 damage with his lance, 3.9 damage with its beak, and 3.3 damage with its claws to this version of Gotrek. Probably still around 4-5 damage without command ability and charge), if that general decides to engage him (I don't know heroes very well, others might also work as well as this one). Wording is bad though. Reading it logically, you would come to this conclusion: If wound inflicted AND NOT hero or monster melee: 3+ ward save. If wound inflicted AND hero or monster with ranged: 3+ ward save. If wound inflicted AND hero or monster melee: no ward save. If wound inflicted AND NOT hero or monster with ranged: no ward save. Edited September 5, 2019 by zilberfrid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overread Posted September 5, 2019 Share Posted September 5, 2019 The rules from GW https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/09/05/gotrek-vs-the-mortal-realms/ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted September 5, 2019 Share Posted September 5, 2019 Well, there we go. ^^ https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/09/05/gotrek-vs-the-mortal-realms/ 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overread Posted September 5, 2019 Share Posted September 5, 2019 (edited) Expensive and pretty tough. A 3+ wound and mortal wound save; a 4+ regular save and 8 wounds. In addition no attack can cause more than one wound per hit and no outright slay abilities can work on him either ( they convert to a mortal wound). So he's going to be one tough dwarf to kill! 3 damage per hit on a 3+3+ with rerolls is also very nasty! Surprised he's not got any special "anti chaos" ability, but then again that would probably have made him super broken. Also interesting he's listed as a Duardin when he's a DWARF! It's also clear that getting a second round of 6 attacks is a very powerful move. I foresee the only way to take him down is to ranged attack him and avoid and at the very least try to tangle. That said I'd keep any major heros/lords/monsters away as he's built to chop down any multi-wound opponent very effectively. Edited September 5, 2019 by Overread Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted September 5, 2019 Share Posted September 5, 2019 I'm actually very pleased with his rules. Really hard to kill and does a lot of damage but also costs a ton of points as it should be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overread Posted September 5, 2019 Share Posted September 5, 2019 Yep and only a 4 inch movement too. So you can likely "kite" out of range from him as he has no charging boost ability of his own. Save for his second attack ability at the end of the combat phase (note its the end of the combat phase so whilst in the article that was super-broken in one-on-one situations, in a multiple units on one situation he'd had to fend off attacks from all the opponents before he could get a chance to retaliate once again). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thalandor Posted September 5, 2019 Share Posted September 5, 2019 Topic name says "Gotrek rules" to which the only reasonable reply is "Yes, he does!" 5 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPjr Posted September 5, 2019 Share Posted September 5, 2019 Waiting for someone to try and teleport him, first turn, into the middle of several 40 model horde units and claim Unstoppable Battle Fury allows them to keep going again and again and again until he solos the lot in one go. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Syf Posted September 5, 2019 Share Posted September 5, 2019 So Nagash is a God and is less durable than Gotrek? Right... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overread Posted September 5, 2019 Share Posted September 5, 2019 6 minutes ago, JPjr said: Waiting for someone to try and teleport him, first turn, into the middle of several 40 model horde units and claim Unstoppable Battle Fury allows them to keep going again and again and again until he solos the lot in one go. Thankfully the "combat phase" only lasts one time so he can't combo that. Of course it won't stop some people arguing that he should be able to do that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deepkin Posted September 5, 2019 Share Posted September 5, 2019 He cannot be teleported can he? Cannot start in reserve or be set up again after the battle begins? I am no expert in GW legalese though. Also I was right, he is better than silly Unforged Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overread Posted September 5, 2019 Share Posted September 5, 2019 Just now, El Syf said: So Nagash is a God and is less durable than Gotrek? Right... Don't forget these were pitched fights one-on-one in close combat. Nagash isn't made to be a close combat hero, he's made to be a powerful spell caster above all else. Gotrek on the other hand is made to be a character killer. It's basically the worst match up for Nagash. Now if they were at opposite ends of the table it would be very different and Nagash could use all manner of spells to his aid 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Televiper11 Posted September 5, 2019 Share Posted September 5, 2019 He'd make a remarkable ally for a Dispo-centric Cities army as you wouldn't really need to take any other allies given the soup nature of the tome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zilberfrid Posted September 5, 2019 Share Posted September 5, 2019 (edited) It's interesting to note that he can only be in an Order allegiance at the moment, since he's too expensive to use as an ally, and does not have that many keywords. This is wrong, he's just your only friend, ehh, ally. But yes. This is quite the hero. I like it. Edited September 5, 2019 by zilberfrid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michu Posted September 5, 2019 Share Posted September 5, 2019 (edited) 3 minutes ago, zilberfrid said: , since he's too expensive to use as an ally, He ignores the ally point limit. EDIT: Considering my avatar... should I hide? Edited September 5, 2019 by michu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bsharitt Posted September 5, 2019 Share Posted September 5, 2019 2 minutes ago, zilberfrid said: It's interesting to note that he can only be in an Order allegiance at the moment, since he's too expensive to use as an ally, and does not have that many keywords. But yes. This is quite the hero. I like it. It's right there at the bottom in his pitched battle profile. He can be taken as an ally by any Order allegiance and can go over the max allied points, but he's you're only ally if you take him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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