Official regulation ? Must minis be painted to be played in a Warhammer Store ?

[GuitaRasmus]

16 minutes ago, Maturin said:

Thing is, to ME, there is no immersement when I play tabletop games, even on a very painted table full of painted landscapes and terrains and with perfectly pâinted units. You're playing in a GW, you've got customers coming in and out, you've got all those strange 20something geeks with body odour problems, where's the immersion ? Even at a friends home, he's got his wife calling, you have his child running around, he has to cook, etc.

As you said, to each his own, I can perfeclty understand most of you guys would rather play against somebody who painted an army. For me, it's about the people I'm facing. I'd rather play a very funny, nice, fair play, smart dude with a grey army, rather than play against a perfectly painted army played by a guy who has nothing interesting to say, who's not fair play or is a pain in the ass. Don't forget we also get some people in my GW, who are clearly showing sign of mental problems (and you may think I'm a ****** due to what I wrote earlier, but to the contrary, I talk to them as if they were as normal as I am).
 

If that's the case, and you are not allowed to play unpainted armies like you want to, then I'd go find someone else to play against. It sounds like you are not getting a lot of satisfaction as is. There are lots of cool, not socially awkward people playing this game, playing either in gaming clubs or their own homes - go find them! 

You can easily get both - someone cool to hang out with, that doesn't cheat, that has a nice painted army - you just have to go find them. 

Ps: I'm guessing you don't have kids yourself - having 3 hours to play a game in a home with a wife and kids, completely uninterrupted, is a rare luxury.  I know my wife does everything she can to make me have some time for myself when I have buddies over for a game, but if the kid is barfing, the stew is boiling over and she hasn't gone to the bathroom since noon, you'd have to be a cold hearted dude to just say "Sorry honey, I'm busy murdering my buddies little plastic men."  

Edited September 1, 2019 by GuitaRasmus

[Greyshadow]

I don't know if I'm saying something new but GW stores primarily exist to recruit new Warhammer enthusiasts. If someone walks in and sees nice people playing Warhammer in a friendly and fun manner with beautifully models then they are more likely to want to jump in. The stores want painted models because it is great advertising for the 'collect-build-paint-play' that is the core philosophy of the hobby.

If you don't want to paint that is absolutely fine. It's nice that you can find nice players happy to play you and you have a great time. Fair play to you and I don't begrudge you at all.

Be aware though that the wider community culture is that having your models nicely prepared and painted is considered a show of respect to your opponent just like offering to shake hands after a game. Why? Because it shows the effort to give your opponent the best possible experience. I am very supportive of this culture. Also, it is not how good your army is painted it is the effort that counts.

P.S. I think your Stormcast looks great. Speed comes with practise.

[Redking]

@Maturin I’ve been playing for over 25 years and as far as I can recall, GW tournaments used to always be 3 colors and based minimum.  That was the rule up until ‘Ard Boyd, which kind of ruined the hobby for me for a while.  As far as playing in the store, I see people playing casual with unpainted minis.  However, they are usually new to the hobby or just bought something new for their army.  While I would prefer to play against opponents who had painted armies, I can also enjoy playing against new people who are just learning.

Battlefleet Gothic actually had a rule that your ships took a critical hit each turn if they weren’t painted.

As for your Stormcast, it’s a good start.  One suggestion I would have would be build up your black highlights prior to putting on the gold.  After priming black, add a thinned layer of Eschin Grey, then drybrush Dawnstone.  Add two coats of Nuln Oil and you could then add some edge highlights of Dawnstone, if you want to take it a step further.  It’s a pretty simple process and will give you good results.  Your other colors look spot on and that little bit of highlight will make them pop.

Everybody has their different parts that they enjoy about the hobby.  I personally hate building models and would prefer to just paint.  The biggest thing is that the hobby is for both players and they both have to get enjoyment out of it.

Good luck.

[Stroke]

Maybe he just doesnt want you to play there because you set you self up in this ivory tower and he doesnt want your likely undeserved elitism driving away those smelly neckbeards who have no life's and clearly that's why they paint their minis... you should really check how you come across to people because to be frank you come across as a lil socially awkward, maybe because you're so judgmental for a guy trying to play with toys at a kids store go find a club with grown ups you wierdo

[BrocknerTheBear]

To answer the original point, No, it is not a requirement of GW or their policy to only play painted armies in store.

It is the policy to enforce painted armies at their tournaments.

It is however, the right of the manager of any given store to decide what (if any) painting requirements they set in their store. 

A simple answer to a simple question. 

[XReN]

I read about half of comments on this topic, this is what I have to say:

First: AoS have rules for tournament games in GHB 2019, but I can't imagine how you can enforce changes on your store.

Second: if you were playing by those rules you would have jumped to the painting table in no time, 25% of your totall score goes from painting aspect of the hobby.

Third: your painting is good and simple enough, all you need is to grind it out, if you start painting consistently and in batches of 5 models you will get better and faster results. And don't tell me that you can't produce at least 1 unit per month, anyone can and it's good enough speed. 

Forth: never strip your models unless it's a hero and you feel that you grown as a painter enough to make a difference, I'm on a journey of re-painting my SCE army at the moment (because the paint scheme fell off my favor and it was half-assed "last night before tournament" quality) It took me 2 weeks of evening painting sessions to test my paint scheme and quality on a unit of Steelhearts Champions. I have well over 10 000 points of SCE to paint that way. Leave your models as past experience

Edited September 2, 2019 by XReN

[XReN]

Also I'd add that @GuitaRasmus's suggestion is probably the best for you, find people that you are most comfortable playing with and that are comfortable to play with you and stick to them. You will miss out on playing against different armies but you will always enjoy your games with those people. 

Having a painted army is just something we expect from everyone and there is nothing to be done about it, unless you are my close friend I'd just stop playing with you outside of tournaments if you are half a year in the hobby and haven't made any progress. And if you were my friend I'd just offer to paint your models if you provide all consumables, Anvils are very easy to paint.

Edited September 2, 2019 by XReN

[Maturin]

7 hours ago, Stroke said:

Maybe he just doesnt want you to play there because you set you self up in this ivory tower and he doesnt want your likely undeserved elitism driving away those smelly neckbeards who have no life's and clearly that's why they paint their minis... you should really check how you come across to people because to be frank you come across as a lil socially awkward, maybe because you're so judgmental for a guy trying to play with toys at a kids store go find a club with grown ups you wierdo

HURH DURH AM BUTTHURT YOU "Insert ad hominem"

[Maturin]

On a more serious note, since when expecting people to maintain proper hygiene standard is something wrong ? Because that's what elitism means in your mouth, something wrong. I'm really sorry if I studied for 10 years, If I speak 3 different european languages and an asian one, if I've been doing sports at a high level, If I've always helped out people in need, if I saved people's life when they were assaulted in the streets.
How come dare I expect people to take showers?
I could develop a point about elitisim being what made the Western World and some other civilizations what they were, because we're right now going the other way (and you're a living proof of that), but I frankly don't have the time to educate you.
Maybe next time, you could just write down what you think without resorting to ad hominem and without being emotive about it, just like 95% of the guys who participated in the thread did.

PS : Playing with GW miniatures is kind of an elitist hobby, money wise. How many thousands of our currencies did we put into buying, models, paints, accessories, books for rules, for fluff, for painting, for modelling terrains, etc.

Edited September 2, 2019 by Maturin

[divineauthority]

Without wanting this conversation to derail further down the rabbit hole, there's always seems to be a forgotten part of the hobby in these conversations: building.

Would you play against somebody who didn't want to build their models because they thought they were bad at it and therefore just brought a bunch of bases to a game?

We expect our opponents to build their models, it's not unreasonable to expect our opponents to at least try and paint them (of course within a reasonable timeframe).

I'll play people with unpainted armies but if I have a choice between painted and unpainted, I'll always go for the painted army and if the same person turns up for 6 months with the same unpainted army, I'll invest my time in doing something else instead.

[Maturin]

19 minutes ago, XReN said:

Also I'd add that @GuitaRasmus's suggestion is probably the best for you, find people that you are most comfortable playing with and that are comfortable to play with you and stick to them. You will miss out on playing against different armies but you will always enjoy your games with those people. 

Having a painted army is just something we expect from everyone and there is nothing to be done about it, unless you are my close friend I'd just stop playing with you outside of tournaments if you are half a year in the hobby and haven't made any progress. And if you were my friend I'd just offer to paint your models if you provide all consumables, Anvils are very easy to paint.

Thanks for all your input.

Well my friends don't mind me playing grey minis. One of them is tournament player who can't paint at all, so it's his brother who does it ;). But they live far away.
The problem is I'm interested by tournaments but local ones, since I don't really have the time to travel across my country.
My original question was,  for GW "tournaments" inside a GW store, not at Warhammer world, or a simple game, am I contractually obliged to have my minis painted.

 

1 hour ago, BrocknerTheBear said:

To answer the original point, No, it is not a requirement of GW or their policy to only play painted armies in store.

It is the policy to enforce painted armies at their tournaments.

It is however, the right of the manager of any given store to decide what (if any) painting requirements they set in their store. 

A simple answer to a simple question. 

Thanks mate.

[Maturin]

44 minutes ago, divineauthority said:

Without wanting this conversation to derail further down the rabbit hole, there's always seems to be a forgotten part of the hobby in these conversations: building.

As I said earlier, some guys I know played WHFB with white paper sheets instead of units because they didn't have the money back then.
They still had fun.

 

44 minutes ago, divineauthority said:

Would you play against somebody who didn't want to build their models because they thought they were bad at it and therefore just brought a bunch of bases to a game?

Oranges and apples dude. You can't compare painted/unpainted with just bases on the table.
But you know what, if the guy brings his bases with a piece of paper on it saying what it is, or carboard paper cut images of the units (like you can find in DnD or Pathfinder) I'll gladly play against him.
 

44 minutes ago, divineauthority said:

I'll play people with unpainted armies but if I have a choice between painted and unpainted, I'll always go for the painted army and if the same person turns up for 6 months with the same unpainted army, I'll invest my time in doing something else instead.

Well, as somebody said earlier, you are, as is everyone else, entitled to your opinion. But to me that is being half close minded.

Edited September 2, 2019 by Maturin

[XReN]

8 minutes ago, Maturin said:

Thanks for all your input.

Well my friends don't mind me playing grey minis. One of them is tournament player who can't paint at all, so it's his brother who does it ;). But they live far away.
The problem is I'm interested by tournaments but local ones, since I don't really have the time to travel across my country.
My original question was,  for GW "tournaments" inside a GW store, not at Warhammer world, or a simple game, am I contractually obliged to have my minis painted.

So, you have any ideas on how to change store manager's mind or another club to play?

And in either case you will still be in an unpleasant situation, because you will be severely punished by official rules for not having you models painted. As per current GHB tournament rules it will be enough for someone with painted army to win 2 games and complete 2 hidden agendas to get more points in 3 games tournament than you can possibly get by winning all 3 games and completing 3 hidden agendas.

[Maturin]

@XReN Thanks for asking.

Well, a few weeks ago, the store manager was asking himself the question, should I or not, allow unpainted armies to participate in the tournaments. He decided in the end to not change his policy. I told him that he could have implemented bonuses for people playing full painted armies, like said numbers of rerolls or bonus victory points.
The problem with that is to find something that is not game breaking. Imagine somebody talented for the gaming aspect, losing to somebody who's not just because the mediocre player painted his army does not seem fair or balanced.

Anyway, I just think that I will end up doing what I did since I started to collect in 2014. Play once or twice a year against a friend, and not participate in tournaments, even though I like tournaments as much as a good old narrative play.
Or, if I can afford it I'll see if I can get somebody to paint my armies to a good tabletop standard or more, in order to be able to participate in those tournaments.
 

[Moldek]

@Maturin you don’t have to like painting minis, but at the end of the day I think you won’t get the approval you’re looking for here.

As most people have said in the thread, playing against a painted force is an important point in the hobby. A lot of people don’t mind playing friendly games against grey plastic, but don’t expect  tournaments to change their regulations. If you really don’t care about painting, you can spray your stormcast gold, shade them and color literally any details and you’re done. 20-30 minutes a day will get you far. 

But from the way you’re talking in this thread, it feels like you’re hurt about you store manager’s reaction to playing unpainted minis, even if he did let you play. You can see in this thread that painting is important to many people; that’s why tournaments have these regulations.

I really don’t mean to offend you, but it really feels like you started this thread pissed off and looking for validation. IMO it comes down to this : yes, 3 colors + basing is the official GW standard; if you do not like it, you’ll have to keep playing against people who don’t mind.

[Overread]

I figure the managers view is that he wants painted armies on the table, not grey ones. A negative modifier might punish some to encourage them to paint up; but if he feels that people will just not worry about that and keep their armies grey then its not working. Clearly his plan of sticking to his guns and not allowing unpainted armies is having the desired effect - that is you considering painting your army. 

[Maturin]

32 minutes ago, Moldek said:

@Maturin you don’t have to like painting minis, but at the end of the day I think you won’t get the approval you’re looking for here.

As most people have said in the thread, playing against a painted force is an important point in the hobby. A lot of people don’t mind playing friendly games against grey plastic, but don’t expect  tournaments to change their regulations. If you really don’t care about painting, you can spray your stormcast gold, shade them and color literally any details and you’re done. 20-30 minutes a day will get you far. 

But from the way you’re talking in this thread, it feels like you’re hurt about you store manager’s reaction to playing unpainted minis, even if he did let you play. You can see in this thread that painting is important to many people; that’s why tournaments have these regulations.

I really don’t mean to offend you, but it really feels like you started this thread pissed off and looking for validation. IMO it comes down to this : yes, 3 colors + basing is the official GW standard; if you do not like it, you’ll have to keep playing against people who don’t mind.

I don't offend easily, I'm not a millenial or one of those people who are professionnally offended by everything, so you can say whatever you want as long as it's said politely. There are only three things that gets on my nerves, stupidity, disrespect and injustice.
I did not come here for validation, I came here to have an explicit set of rules so I can act based upon those rules.
Most of you gave me their input about how they perceive the hobby instead of giving me the set of rules I was looking for.

I have a different view of the hobby. It's fine by me. I'm not here to tell anyone your vision of the hobby is not the correct one.

Now, mind you, most of you must be from the UK, where you might have a different culture related to miniature games and board games, and also you might not have the kind of people in your GW store that we have here. Heck, even in my country, it differs from town to town. But the GW store I go to, is very peculiar, and yes it's starting to be annoying to be confronted to people without any kind of self respect and respect for others. So when I get a remark by the store manager about my grey minis, but will let go stuff that should be paramount in a normal environment/Society (Body hygiene especially in summer [Did you ever have a stinking woman put herself right in front of the AC and send away all her body odour to everybody else ? I did, I had to restrain myself really hard not to tell her anything], respect for others, parents who do not discipline their children and stuff) that starts to get on my nerves.
He won't say anything, because he can't. Because those who did in the past, got reprimanded by GW.

I'm going to repeat myself again. I love well painted miniatures. I'm in awe when I look at some minis on internet or WD.
But what is important to me, is the people I interact with. Not the miniatures.
I went several times to the UK. Met a lot of different people. I once had the luck to meet a grandmother who was raised by her aunt, who herself was raised during Victorian era or with Victorian standards. That was a delight to behold.
Nowadays, people everywhere, lacks that kind of education. And that was not how I was raised. Hence the troubles I have with the population playing boardgames or miniature games, who more often than not in my country anyway, are not the cream of the cream.

32 minutes ago, Overread said:

I figure the managers view is that he wants painted armies on the table, not grey ones. A negative modifier might punish some to encourage them to paint up; but if he feels that people will just not worry about that and keep their armies grey then its not working. Clearly his plan of sticking to his guns and not allowing unpainted armies is having the desired effect - that is you considering painting your army. 

Nope,

I'll either have somebody paint them for a price, or I'll stop going to the GW store altogether.




 

Edited September 2, 2019 by Maturin

[Moldek]

Well buddy I don’t know what to tell you. Congratulations on not being a millenial I guess?

It’s amazing to me how you don’t realize how you may come across when you write things like that. And the way you describe your store, I wonder why you even want to play there since it’s filled with sweaty, awkward nerds who don’t respect you 😂. 

and no I’m not from the UK, I’m from France. Plenty of respectful gamers there, even though they are not raised with Victorian Values...

[Maturin]

3 minutes ago, Moldek said:

nd no I’m not from the UK, I’m from France. Plenty of respectful gamers there, even though they are not raised with Victorian Values...

Lucky for you.

[Brother_Captain]

32 minutes ago, Maturin said:

Most of you gave me their input about how they perceive the hobby instead of giving me the set of rules I was looking for.

May i ask why you  opened up this thread in a fan forum when you could just ask GW via e-mail about this, just in case they actually HAVE some sort of official regulations for this?

I'm just curious, but feel free to ignore this question: If GW has regulations for stuff like this, what would happen if they would contradict your store manager's tournament requirements?

I hope you have a very polite and odourless week!

[Hagbean]

Why are people even responding to this guy? Blatant troll.

[Gaz Taylor]

+++ Mod Hat On +++

Not impressed at all with the way this thread has gone. This is not how we treat people on TGA.

@Maturin - Can you please read the Rules about how we want you to behave on this forum.