Official regulation ? Must minis be painted to be played in a Warhammer Store ?

[Maturin]

HEy guys,

Don't know if it's the right place to ask but this is a big question for me! I totally suck at painting. Hoarding ? Not so much.
Basically, I have a lot of grey miniatures, because it breaks my heart to totally ruin those good looking minis with a horrible paint job!
So, in my GW, it's mandatory that for tournaments, miniatures be at least base coat + bases + shade, but is there really a regulation about that ?
Let's say I want to participate in a tournament, because it's my favourite part of the hobby, and I'm forbidden to do so, because my minis are greys. Would it be condone by GW?

Cheers guys!

[Overread]

GW uses its stores both as a focus for the hobby for those who want to play and to advertise the hobby to those who might be passing by. So they generally do encourage and enforce painting requirements at things like tournaments. It's also something other gamers like to see, most gamers prefer to play against painted armies even if they are painted in the most basic of colours. It's part of the hobby just like putting together the models is. 

 

Now GW stores can run their events to their own criteria, within reason. A beginner who just started out might get some leeway to join a tournament with unpainted models because the are very new. But by and large the GW store is going to want to encourage and enforce painted models at the events for the vast majority of players. 

That said they are not leaving people high and dry; most GW store staff are generally decent painters themselve sand at least have enough skill to help teach others. Plus there's the local members who could also give you pointers and advice. So there are resources out there to help you get your army painted up and on the table.

 

In the end yes you might well be forbidden from the events if you refuse to paint your army.

[Maturin]

2 minutes ago, Overread said:

In the end yes you might well be forbidden from the events if you refuse to paint your army.

Thank you for your intake. I do not refuse to paint. I suck at it, got plenty of advices, some leeway, my painted models sucks (to my standard), and I don't really have a lot of time.

What I'd like to know is that, is there an official statement from GW, or is it up to the store manager ?

PS ; Your point about others preferring to play against painted armies is to me irrelevant. I'd like my opponents to be fair play and roll dices correctly. Some just drop them, save 13 out 15 wounds, are always over the top stats wise, whereas I always launch the dice so it really rolls and only luck, not throwing method impacts the rolls, but if they don't want to do it the "correct" way after being asked, then I have nothing else to say. I can't force them to change dices either. Why should I be punished for being bad at painting and/or too perfectionnist.

Cheers!

[Overread]

I believe GW official events do mandate that models be painted with at least 3 colours on them - so a basic standard of tabletop painting. Though I couldn't link you to where it says that, but its likely in the event/tournament packs they distribute. Talking to your local store manager would give you the best answer. Also remember that they are their own managers to some extent, so they might have some leeway to bend the rules here and there. However in general even 3rd party events tend to encourage/mandate that models are painted. 

[Maturin]

Ok, thanks for your reply.

Edited September 1, 2019 by Maturin

[AthlorianStoners]

In my experience most GW actively encourage people to paint and will enforce painting requirements for tournaments. 

Casual play would be different, but even then a large group of the player base prefer to play against painted models. 

If tournaments and consistent competitive games are something you enjoy you’d either have to locate a group that has no problems with unpainted minis or end up just having time paint them. 

[Overread]

Or comission someone to paint them for you. There's quite a few companies online in many regions that will do some awesome paintwork; or even someone local might paint your army up for not a huge amount in cost. 

[Aelfric]

32 minutes ago, Maturin said:

Thank you for your intake. I do not refuse to paint. I suck at it, got plenty of advices, some leeway, my painted models sucks (to my standard), and I don't really have a lot of time.

Bear in mind, We all sucked at painting at one time.  I still have my early models with their bug eyes and no shading except for black lines between colours.  Practise does not make perfect, but you do see a difference over time.  No-one is going to chastise you for for your painting because it demonstrates that you have made the effort.  It is a difficult but rewarding part of the hobby, and well worth pursuing, and you will find actually playing the game more fun with painted models.  

My models may not be brilliantly painted, but they are mine and I feel more invested in the army, the more effort I have put into it.

 

[Maturin]

4 minutes ago, Aelfric said:

It is a difficult but rewarding part of the hobby, and well worth pursuing, and you will find actually playing the game more fun with painted models. 

Nope, I don't :).
I have the same fun, with my grey minis as with my ****** anvils of the shittypainthammer!

I can appreciate a good paint job though, and it's always nice to watch some people's well painted minis. But if somebody wants to play the GreyHammer with me, I'm totally fine !

Edited September 1, 2019 by Maturin

[Maturin]

The thing I have a problem with, is GW's mentality, and some store manager's too.
I mean, I'm already paying for the miniatures. I'm paying for the paints, altough I don't use them. And then, I'm being told like they're doing ME a favour by letting me play unpainted miniatures.

Imagine you're selling pizzas, if you do not have tables for people to eat, then that's it. But if you have tables, you're not going to tell those customers "Hey, I'm giving you a favoir by letting you eat here you know! So you use your fork and knife, no hands allowed or bust !"

But with GW, they always pretend that they're giving you a favor. Just like they say "Oh we have free activities inside the store. You can come and build your models, with your glue, and paint them with your paints" Where's the free ? I just bought all that from your shop ... Free lessons ? Sure, like a guy in a one man shop can give you a private painting lesson 1 on 1, when he's being asked questions every 2 minutes, has to go back to the register to cash people out etc.

Anyway, I think this debate could go on and on.

[Overread]

Lessons in GW stores have always been a thing; though it is harder now when staff (esp in the UK) were cut down to 1 staff worker overseeing the store. back in teh day they had 3 or 4 staff and could easily tutor one person whilst others maintained the store. Also the staff will still do game nights when the focus is more on the club/game aspect than on retail. Once the store is open past the 5-6pm slot the casual walk-in shoppers fall off dramatically and the store then settles down to more hobby focus. 

And like I said many gamers are keen to help others out as well and can happily spend time helping you develop your painting skills and such. 

[Maturin]

No way, you have game nights in your GW ?

Ours close at 7pm, well most at the time it even closes at 6pm or even 5.30 because the manager has had a lot of "exceptionnal early closing" lately.
See, that's a very big difference here. A lot of the regulars in my Gw are socially akward people, no mean people, but akwards. Some of them, I personnally feel discomfort when they're talking to me for too long and I'm someone who actually enjoys meeting new people. Imagine if I had to listen to them for hours for painting lessons.

And most of the very good painters don't really hang out at the Gdubs. They paint at their place.

You clearly don't have the same kind of atmosphere in your Gw than I do in mine. That's why I don't think it's fair to rob me or threaten to rob me of the only thing I really enjoy in the hobby!

Edited September 1, 2019 by Maturin

[Overread]

It will vary store to store - locals in the UK generally aim to have a game night if they can. That said if the store isnt' running a game night then chances are there must be one or more local clubs that make use of the evening time to run game events. 

[Scythian]

Very interesting topic. I simply cannot and will not put an army on the table unless it’s painted. That wasn’t always the case for me. It took a certain degree of effort to watch painting videos, ask advice from pros, and simply practice. Maturin, no one expects you to be Leonardo DiVinci. Most of us aren’t master painters. However, I’ve never known of any gamer being respected in the community playing “bareback” models. And yet, people will always respect the gamer that at least tries. Now, go get those paints and get to it!

[Maturin]

9 minutes ago, Scythian said:

Very interesting topic. I simply cannot and will not put an army on the table unless it’s painted. That wasn’t always the case for me. It took a certain degree of effort to watch painting videos, ask advice from pros, and simply practice. Maturin, no one expects you to be Leonardo DiVinci. Most of us aren’t master painters. However, I’ve never known of any gamer being respected in the community playing “bareback” models. And yet, people will always respect the gamer that at least tries. Now, go get those paints and get to it!

Hey buddy :).

Well, I don't really care about being "respected" by others because my minis are grey. I'd rather be proud of myself because I thought a lot about a list's synergy, how I did outsmart my opponent by reacting to his moves and won with fairplay!

For sure, I'd like to have a cabinet full of wonderfully painted minis, but hey, maybe in another life time 😛

[Sleboda]

1 hour ago, Maturin said:

Your point about others preferring to play against painted armies is to me irrelevant. I'd like my opponents to be fair play and roll dices correctly.

Your dismissal of your opponents' enjoyment of the hobby is disheartening,  and your comparison to dice rolling mechanics that implies cheating is way off base.

Cheating is bad.

Embracing the hobby for the mutual benefit of both players is good.

Not only does GW encourage painted models,  I'd be totally supportive of it somehow being a requirement of play.  The experience is a thousand times better and,  in the end, helps keep many players engaged in the hobby for longer and at a higher level of care and investment. 

 

Also,  on the idea of focusing only on the game to the exclusion of the other elements of the hobby,  I gotta ask: why? GW, bless their hearts for trying,  has almost never made the best rules for games on the scale of Warhammer. It's always been about the hobby as a whole, to the point where the rules have suffered to make the rest better.  Why anyone would choose AoS as a play experience just for the rules is beyond me when other games do the rules part much better.  It's a fine game,  but really it's the whole hobby that makes it worth the effort. 

Edited September 1, 2019 by Sleboda

[Scythian]

15 minutes ago, Maturin said:

No way, you have game nights in your GW ?

Ours close at 7pm, well most at the time it even closes at 6pm or even 5.30 because the manager has had a lot of "exceptionnal early closing" lately.
See, that's a very big difference here. A lot of the regulars in my Gw are socially akward people, no mean people, but akwards. Some of them, I personnally feel discomfort when they're talking to me for too long and I'm someone who actually enjoys meeting new people. Imagine if I had to listen to them for hours for painting lessons.

And most of the very good painters don't really hang out at the Gdubs. They paint at their place.

You clearly don't have the same kind of atmosphere in your Gw than I do in mine. That's why I don't think it's fair to rob me or threaten to rob me of the only thing I really enjoy in the hobby!

Lol, yes, certain game stores do attract a rogue’s gallery of “odd ducks” and “unique” characters. These gaming communities tend to have bad vibes and poor cohesion. This can often make the socially trained person feel very uncomfortable and even scare them away from the hobby. On the flip side, some game stores have a strong community of socially trained people which makes the walk-in newbies more comfortable and allows them the chance to learn and grow as a gamer. If you had a stronger gaming community, you’d probably enjoy all the parts of the hobby.

[Maturin]

2 minutes ago, Sleboda said:

Your dismissal of your opponents' enjoyment of the hobby is disheartening,  and your comparison to dice rolling mechanics that implies cheating is way off base.

Cheating is bad.

Embracing the hobby for the mutual benefit of both players is good.

Not only does GW encourage painted models,  I'd be totally supportive of it somehow being a requirement if play.  The experience is a thousand times better and,  in the end, helps keep many players engaged in the hobby for longer and at a higher level of care and investment. 

What's disheartening to ME is that YOU'd deprive somebody of their enjoyment just because YOU think they don't deserve to play gainst YOU.
If somebody's really into painting that's cool, and I have nothing to say about it. Why would you have to say something about me not being into it ?

[Maturin]

2 minutes ago, Scythian said:

Lol, yes, certain game stores do attract a rogue’s gallery of “odd ducks” and “unique” characters. These gaming communities tend to have bad vibes and poor cohesion. This can often make the socially trained person feel very uncomfortable and even scare them away from the hobby. On the flip side, some game stores have a strong community of socially trained people which makes the walk-in newbies more comfortable and allows them the chance to learn and grow as a gamer. If you had a stronger gaming community, you’d probably enjoy all the parts of the hobby.

I totally agree with what you said. The best fun I had was playing WFB V8 for a year and a half, with a dentist who was about my age and whom with I could have regular conversations.
Not saying you can't have regular conversations if you're a factory worker huh ^^. 

[Overread]

Respect goes both ways not one way - so chill guys!

 

In the end events are ALWAYS run at the discretion of the person organising them. They might enforce painting, using GW only models, using custom rules whatever. It's their event their rules. 

In general painting is a very typical requirement at most tournaments be they official or not. If your local event won't let you play with grey models then you've a few options:

1) Paint them
2) Pay someone else to paint them for you
3) See if there is another local club that runs events that might let you play in their events 
4) Start your own group.

 

In the end the vast majority of gamers are going to encourage you to learn to paint. Even those of us (like myself) who are also terrible painters with a perfectionist edge that results in never getting any painting done. 

[Sleboda]

6 minutes ago, Maturin said:

What's disheartening to ME is that YOU'd deprive somebody of their enjoyment just because YOU think they don't deserve to play gainst YOU.
If somebody's really into painting that's cool, and I have nothing to say about it. Why would you have to say something about me not being into it ?

Hang on. Let me check ... hmmm  ... nope. Turns out that is not what I said. 

[Maturin]

3 minutes ago, Overread said:

In the end the vast majority of gamers are going to encourage you to learn to paint. Even those of us (like myself) who are also terrible painters with a perfectionist edge that results in never getting any painting done. 

Yeah, and most of you were pretty cool in that way, telling me how it's great, how it's part of the hobby, etc.

3 minutes ago, Overread said:

Even those of us (like myself) who are also terrible painters with a perfectionist edge that results in never getting any painting done. 

Dude, are you y doppleganger ?

[Overread]

2 minutes ago, Maturin said:

Yeah, and most of you were pretty cool in that way, telling me how it's great, how it's part of the hobby, etc.

Dude, are you y doppleganger ?

I could be - but I fully accept that painted models ARE better and that I will one day get round to proper painting. At an event like a tournament I've no problem with having to have painted models and having to "pay" that entry fee of painting my models up to attend. Just like buying and wearing a uniform for a competitive sports event or any one ofa number of other requirements that there are for many events. 

 

In the end painting your models isn't a huge ask really; and iwth contrast paints; lots of online and paper resources and local people the BIGGER barrier for hte vast majority of people is being willing to put some money and lots of time into learning and improving. 

 

Heck get some second hand metal models and some paint stripping stuff (I'd use Dettol in the UK but there are other products around the world). Paint up a model a day and strip down the models every so often to start again. If you just paint for 30mins a day every week for a few months coupled to tutorials and painting guides you'd pick up a lot of methods and basic hand-eye coordination improvements. 

Edited September 1, 2019 by Overread

[Maturin]

5 minutes ago, Overread said:

In the end painting your models isn't a huge ask really; and iwth contrast paints; lots of online and paper resources and local people the BIGGER barrier for the vast majority of people is being willing to put some money and lots of time into learning and improving.

Contrast sucks (for begginers). Took me at least 4 hours to convert and paint that SOB :
 

4 hours ! and it's wonky as hell! Big hammer guy's hammer is bent AF!

Edited September 1, 2019 by Maturin

[Overread]

And that level of painting would be perfectly fine for an event. 

As for 4 hours - yeah painting takes time. If you an already paint to that level then chances are you and do a decent army for an event.