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Still-young

AoS 2 - Ossiarch Bonereapers Discussion

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7 minutes ago, Klat said:

yep, if you are playing with vanguard rules (1000 points) you will need to drop a behemoth

Thought so, thank you :)

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Some thoughts after having played the army for almost a month now:

 

  1. The army has three very intimidating units.  All three units can have major effects on your opponent’s battleplan and have to be dealt with or, at least, have a plan to deal with lest they throw a large monkey wrench into their plan.  These units are the Mortek Crawler, Gothizzar Harvester and Mortek Guard
    1. Mortek Crawler:  This is my love/hate piece.  I’m not really a fan of it and don’t really want to take it.  However it can deal with key units in your opponent’s army early which can cause all types of problems.  This causes me to want to take it because, if it works, it can easily take out that mage with Ignax’s Scales in Halloweart, or the Slaughterpriests in Blades of Khorne, the Warchanter in Orruk armies etc.  The issue is that it’s highly reliant on luck since it has no rend.  It’s not going to wear down what it’s shooting at.  It’s either going to kill it or do nothing.  There isn’t any in between.  Because I usually have worse then average luck it means I usually expect it to do nothing.  Your opponent will hate seeing it because all they will see is something that’s about to kill their key wizard/priest first turn and will complain bitterly if it happens.  Meanwhile, many turns it will do nothing like it did in turns 1-3 of my game last night.  It keeps your opponent honest and has high potential to take apart your opponent’s plan which will earn it a place in my lists.  At the same time since it relies so heavily on luck, which I don’t have, it will always feel like I’m wasting my 200 points.
    2. Gothizzar Harvester:  I LOVE these guys.  When near your 20+ Mortek Guard blocks your opponent will just see an immortal unit until the harvester is dead.  I’ve watched my opponents have to change their approach on how to tackle the Mortek Guard (which are the real threat) because of the harvester.  Just bubble wrap it and make the whole blob into a really tough nut to crack.  I’ve heard many utterances that it was useless to shoot the guard or to send in a unit or two to soften it up because the harvester would just regrow them and “waste the shots”.  What happens is that it usually ends up taking the firepower which allows the Mortek Guard to get to where they’re going intact and in numbers which is when the real fun begins.  I’ve also had times where it attacks first, then my opponent will go and attack it instead of something that has yet to attack because they need to get rid of it before they hit the other target, otherwise it can bring them back or even heal itself back up.  It almost messes with your opponent’s activation order because of what it can do.  Also, it’s not bad at shooting or in melee either so is certainly a threat there.  Mortal wounds, a standard -2 rend and 4 good shots are all great. 
    3. Mortek Guard: These guys are the real stars of the army and are certainly no tax on the army.  I’m finding myself building around them rather then just sticking them on the side or supporting other things.  Shieldwall is so stinking good, especially on a 3+ model, that it cannot be understated.  Throw in that they never run away, can go up to movement 7 with a +1 to charge and can come back easily and they’re stars.  On top of that, they’re really good in melee.  I haven’t had any problems getting the majority, if not all, of the 20 into the fight because of their 25mm bases so it’s swords all the way.  The native -1 rend is too good to pass up.  Especially because it can be buffed with an extra -1 rend, +1 attack or +1 to hit easily.  Then they also have the exploding 6s.  Finally, they’re what many other units like the Harvester, mages and Liege Kavalos are really built around to support.  To see the lengths that my opponents have gone to deal with my battleline has been great to watch.
  2. I still think the spell lore is suspect.  The spells are very situational.  I’m leaning towards Protection of Nagash and Drain Vitality as being my top 2 right now after several games.  Protection because it can make your guys really durable and you only have to cast it once so it frees up spells later.  But mainly because it adds that teleport option to grab things backfield later which is unexpected in the army.  Drain Vitality because so much keys off 6s to hit or save right now that it can really blunt the damage output of those Hedonites or Bloodletters.  Because of this, I’m not sold on Arkhan as being a great option in the army.  He looks good on paper, but he’s expensive to only provide 1 RD point and I never really feel like I’m getting much out of his spellcasting.  He’s never dominated a game for me when I’ve used him on a level of what I’d bring with his points if they were freed up elsewhere.  If I had him and a Liege Kavalos, I’d actually seriously consider bringing a 2nd Liege Kavalos and one of the 3 generic wizards instead for the extra RD points.
  3. I want to play with the Mortisan Soulreaper more.  With Protection of Nagash I think he’s very underrated in a Petrifex army because he can be very tanky, yet actually do well in melee.  I’d like to try him in a Crematorian army as the general for the damage 3 weapon plus actually making use of the explosion. 
  4. I’ve really enjoyed the Mortek Shield Corps Battalion.  Extra artifact, extra RD point, reduces your drops by 3 and basically gives you 2 free RD points a battle round.  It’s been fantastic.  Since the Mortek Guard will be up in your face most turns, you get mileage out of it every round (unlike the deathrider one) and what you’re getting is the first thing on your list to do. 
  5. I’ve noticed that I’ve been plinking away with the 1 MW with the Nexus recently with the negative to wizards as the #2 (not a big deal against Khorne or my Orruk Buddy).  I’ve mentioned before using it to get the 1st wound on a 6 wound hero so the Crawler can one shot it (see the luck above).  I’m also using it more to supplement the Harvester shooting because, again, their shooting is quite good and you can use them as assassins also.  The other two abilities needing the unit to be wholly within 18” and only working on a 4+ has made me shy away from it unless the MW really wouldn’t help anywhere.

 

Anywhere, thought I’d put up the list I’m eager to try out next:

 

Petrifex Elite

Mortisan Soulreaper General with Godbone Armor, Protection of Nagash
Liege Kavalos with Helm of the Ordained
Mortisan Boneshaper with Drain Vitality
20 Mortek Guard with Swords, 2 Greatswords
20 Mortek Guard with Swords, 2 Greatswords
20 Mortek Guard with Swords, 2 Greatswords
Gothizzar Harvester
Gothizzar Harvester
Gothizzar Harvester
Mortek Shield Corps Battalion
Bone-Tithe Shrieker
Soulstealer Carrion (for healing the Soulreaper.  The army has lots of shooting and can do impact hits on the Kavalos so lots of opportunity for rolls)
2,000 points exactly

Edited by Emissary
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2 hours ago, GeneralZero said:

Endless spells

That is so incredibly obvious now, I need more coffee

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3 hours ago, Emissary said:

Petrifex Elite

Mortisan Soulreaper General with Godbone Armor, Protection of Nagash
Liege Kavalos with Helm of the Ordained
Mortisan Boneshaper with Drain Vitality
20 Mortek Guard with Swords, 2 Greatswords
20 Mortek Guard with Swords, 2 Greatswords
20 Mortek Guard with Swords, 2 Greatswords
Gothizzar Harvester
Gothizzar Harvester
Gothizzar Harvester
Mortek Shield Corps Battalion
Bone-Tithe Shrieker
Soulstealer Carrion (for healing the Soulreaper.  The army has lots of shooting and can do impact hits on the Kavalos so lots of opportunity for rolls)
2,000 points exactly

I think the underrated part of this list is how balanced it is for missions.  You have 3 solid blocks of objective holding infantry, you also have 3 heroes if you get a scenario that requires them to hold objectives.  I personally hate the harvester model so running 3 would be a bit much for me.  Only downside I can see to this list is how slow it can be.  I would be tempted by a unit of cavalry for the really spread out missions.

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3 hours ago, Emissary said:

Just bubble wrap it and make the whole blob into a really tough nut to crack. 

I see references to bubble wrap (surround one unit with another) but I've never seen the practicality of it. Maybe I'm missing something:

At deployment you encircle the unit to be protected, in this case the harvester, with the protecting unit, in this case the guard. Got it. Easy enough.

Then your movement phase comes up. The harvester can't move since it can't fly* and has nowhere to go with all the guard around it. So, you move the guard. You have to leave a gap in the bubble wrap to allow the harvester to get back in, which means there is now an opening for being attacked.

Did I miss something?

 

*Even if it could fly, you have to severally undermove it to allow the trailing guard to get around its base, back to the front, when they want to move and re-wrap the harvester.

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32 minutes ago, Sleboda said:

I see references to bubble wrap (surround one unit with another) but I've never seen the practicality of it. Maybe I'm missing something:

At deployment you encircle the unit to be protected, in this case the harvester, with the protecting unit, in this case the guard. Got it. Easy enough.

Then your movement phase comes up. The harvester can't move since it can't fly* and has nowhere to go with all the guard around it. So, you move the guard. You have to leave a gap in the bubble wrap to allow the harvester to get back in, which means there is now an opening for being attacked.

Did I miss something?

 

*Even if it could fly, you have to severally undermove it to allow the trailing guard to get around its base, back to the front, when they want to move and re-wrap the harvester.

So the main formation isn't to encircle it as much as you want its front and side protected.  Hence it's more of a U shape around its front and sides, but one side will be "weaker", IE it will have less guys, maybe one row of guys instead of 2 or 3.  The weaker side will depend on where my enemy's best attack point will be, as well as terrain and other units in my army (you can use it as bait as well.).  The formation will also depend on if I plan to get charged or if I will be doing the charge.  

If it is to get charged I just have one row of Guard in front of it.  This way when the enemy rams into them it can move up slightly and get in the gap in between 2 Guard if everything will let him get within 1" for the bludgeons, otherwise you're relying on the 2" feet and tail.  Also, if you leave one side of the U protection weaker, if they kill off some of the Guard, you remove them from that side to create an opening for the harvester to pile in through and the guys that are brought back you can chain it from their other side.  Remember, the Harvester has a long oval base so when you pile in, you can angle the back part of his base to get a lot of guys you are daisy chaining in on the resurrection, especially if you are bringing back guys that the harvester, himself kills.

If both units plan to charge, again, The mortek guard will move up and the weaker side guys will move over to be more central while the harvester will move diagonally (well horizontal and then vertical.  his +2" movement over the mortek guard usually makes up the amount he has to go horizontal) up to be even with the guard since his move is 6".  Then they should both have the same chance to charge.  When they charge, I make sure that there is a pile of Guard within 3" after the charge and upcoming pile in moves.

Now, the one thing that makes this whole thing work (and actually the entire army really) is the +3" command ability.  IT'S AWESOME and easily a top tier command ability.  It can give the Guard that 7" move to keep up with a Harvester, get out of its way for a charge or make them both move really far.  Harvesters have a 9" move with it!  I really haven't had any movement issues because of that ability.  The army can just be so damn fast if it wants to be.  It costs RD, but if you go second (the army only has 6 drops which is competitive, but not absolute), you can use them freely and then regenerate them later.  Plus you get the free shield wall from the battalion.

Lastly, it's important to note that the Harvester and Crawler are the 2 units in the army that don't have a way to give themselves the 6+ ignore wounds.  They're not Hekatos units.  However, the Mortek Guard Hekatos Champion will give it the 6+ save if it is wholly within 6" and can use the 3" move on the Harvester and give it the +3" to move if a hero isn't nearby.  You have to be mindful of it in the game.

I really recommend just getting out a Harvester and 20 Guard and just practice moving them around with and without the +3" movement for spacing and whatnot.  Also do it for when you are charged to keep enough guys nearby to die and bring back as well as create a space for the harvester to engage the enemy without breaking unit coherency.

Edited by Emissary

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I just had to say that putting Katakros together was a bit of a nightmare.  Trying to orient the feet, legs and hip glue joints so that they will align with the square holes in the base and still connect the arm to the shield was frustrating as hell.

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Hey Guys. I have a question where i had not found an answer yet. 

The rules for the spears say: exploding on a 5+ instead of 6.

Does that mean it can be modified now?

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3 hours ago, J4yzor said:

Hey Guys. I have a question where i had not found an answer yet. 

The rules for the spears say: exploding on a 5+ instead of 6.

Does that mean it can be modified now?

If you totally ignore the rest of the sentence than yes.

So NO. It's still unmodified

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@Emissary you say you only have to cast protection of nagash once? Does that spell last the entire Battle? 😮 that seems really powerful on a wizard... 

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1 hour ago, Nuradin said:

@Emissary you say you only have to cast protection of nagash once? Does that spell last the entire Battle? 😮 that seems really powerful on a wizard... 

It lasts until the caster takes a wound or mortal wound that is not negated.  So if he never takes a wound, then yes it would last the entire battle.  What I meant by that was that you don't have to keep recasting it every turn if they aren't attacking him.

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Hello guys. I was waiting to jump into the army, in order to see what the gameplay really is all about.

Now it seems that it is all about infantry spam, Harvesters and artillery (which is a gameplay I already have with my GreywaterFastness dwarves).

Is there any chance that something competitive can be done with a highly offensive and mobile army, with lots of Stalkers, Morghasts, maybe a Liege Kavalos and Arkhan charging alongside?

I'm pretty sure that would be fun, but I don't want to play a severely underpowered build either.

Thanks for your feedback !

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In all the complaining about bonereapers being too good on twitter etc, a few people are mentioning us having re-rolls to wound. Have I completely missed something, or are they wrong in thinking we have that?

The only way to improve wounds I can see is the 9" melee only bubble put out by the Soulmason item that doesn't work against other death.

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1 hour ago, Cargo Cult said:

Another Arkhan question: should he be run as your general? Pros and cons?

No, there is no reason to have arkhan as your general since he gains no benefit from it then all you do is lose out on the command trait. Only do it if your playing null meriad and want the flavour. 

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21 minutes ago, Alaric83 said:

Hello guys. I was waiting to jump into the army, in order to see what the gameplay really is all about.

Now it seems that it is all about infantry spam, Harvesters and artillery (which is a gameplay I already have with my GreywaterFastness dwarves).

Is there any chance that something competitive can be done with a highly offensive and mobile army, with lots of Stalkers, Morghasts, maybe a Liege Kavalos and Arkhan charging alongside?

I'm pretty sure that would be fun, but I don't want to play a severely underpowered build either.

Thanks for your feedback !

For sure you can. The mortek guard are popular and rightly so and it would be a good idea to bring some, but just going with 3x20 is not needed to play this army.

This is just an example but for a heavy cavalry force with powerful magic as well could look like this:

Allegiance: Ossiarch Bonereapers
- Legion: Petrifex Elite
Liege-Kavalos (200)
- General
- Trait: Mighty Archaeossian
- Artefact: Helm of the Ordained
Arkhan the Black, Mortarch of Sacrament (360)
Mortisan Soulmason (140)
- Artefact: Godbone Armour
- Lore of Mortisans: Arcane Command
10 x Kavalos Deathriders (360)
- Nadirite Blade and Shield
10 x Kavalos Deathriders (360)
- Nadirite Blade and Shield
20 x Mortek Guard (260)
- Nadirite Blade and Shield
3 x Necropolis Stalkers (200)
Kavalos Lance (120)

Total: 2000 / 2000

I am in doubt about the Soulmason vs Boneshaper, as both are good, this is just to get magic superiority, as the soulmason will most likely be able to hand out a lot of reroll 1s to hit, so you will often do 6 spells per turn. Arkhan being at +2 to cast and unbind is also very powerful and people seem to underestimate the magic defense he brings.

The list only generated 5 discipline points by default and has few units, which is why I chose arcane command for the soulmason to possibly provide a few more points. This is because you really want to be using Petrifex +1 rend as much as possible! 10 Kavalos possibly moving 15" and charging in with their 10 dice for 5+ mortal wounds and a 6" pile in is scary, even more so if the riders got rend 2 and horsies rend 1. Add the Liege and his helm for +1 to hit and possiblt reroll 1 to hit from the soulmason and things look scary!

20 Mortek is always solid, so kept a unit of that and Stalkers pack a nasty punch and can advance behind the kavalos or mortek for a hefty counter punch as needed.

Some setups might be slightly more optimal than others, but something like this is definately playable and you can switch stuff around to match your favourite models.

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How do people find Katakros in legions outside of Praetorians. I'm looking at how to expand my crematorian force and I'm considering getting either him or Arkhan, I know Arkhan would be really good for magic and such but I've got 2 boneshapers currently already and Katakros is a really nice model (expensive though in points and £££).

For reference the current things I own:

-2 Boneshapers
-1 Harvester
-30 Mortek Guard (swords)
-5 Deathriders (swords)
-3 Stalkers
-2 morghast archai (halbards)
-2 unbuilt morghast

I don't want to go just infantry and harvester spam because the lists for that look a bit dull for me, I'd like to be able to use a bit more of a range of units (like the fact I love the look of stalkers & deathriders) But I do totally plan to have at least a 20 guard + 1 harvester combo in most lists because it's pretty useful!

A bit of advice on what sort of things I could look at would be nice (I know I'll probably need a liege kavalos).  Also as a sidenote I'm really enjoying painting up my Crematorian guys, the scheme is pretty simple and quite fun. It might end up being my first fully painted army (above 1k)

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3 hours ago, boots468 said:

In all the complaining about bonereapers being too good on twitter etc, a few people are mentioning us having re-rolls to wound. Have I completely missed something, or are they wrong in thinking we have that?

The only way to improve wounds I can see is the 9" melee only bubble put out by the Soulmason item that doesn't work against other death.

Only thing I can think of is the stalkers can get it naturally.

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59 minutes ago, Lightbox said:

How do people find Katakros in legions outside of Praetorians. I'm looking at how to expand my crematorian force and I'm considering getting either him or Arkhan, I know Arkhan would be really good for magic and such but I've got 2 boneshapers currently already and Katakros is a really nice model (expensive though in points and £££).

Katakros is the ultimate swing model. If you roll well for preventing the enemy from getting command points especially the first two to three turns you can completely hamstring a lot of armies main strategies. If you never stop a cp he probably won’t make back his points. 
 

I would say he is auto include in praetorians and a solid option everywhere else. 5 RD points per turn from him is nothing to ignore either. 

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Sorry if this has already been asked, but does the latest Designer Commentary now mean that the Immortis Guard can't benefit from the Reinforce Battle Shield spell too, despite having Nadirite Battle Shields??

Here it is: 

Q: Can Katakros, Mortarch of the Necropolis, benefit from the ‘Reinforce Battle-shields’ spell?
A: No, the ‘Shields’ in this rule refer to the weapon option for Mortek Guard and Kavalos Deathriders units.

This is confusing....
 

Edited by Heijoshin
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3 hours ago, boots468 said:

In all the complaining about bonereapers being too good on twitter etc, a few people are mentioning us having re-rolls to wound. Have I completely missed something, or are they wrong in thinking we have that?

The only way to improve wounds I can see is the 9" melee only bubble put out by the Soulmason item that doesn't work against other death.

There is also the Arch Liege Kavalos Zandtos (probably spelt his name wrong) 

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1 minute ago, Heijoshin said:

There is also the Arch Liege Kavalos Zandtos (probably spelt his name wrong) 

In praetorians only,  and against order and destruction models. 

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16 minutes ago, Dolomyte said:

In praetorians only,  and against order and destruction models. 

Sure, but they wanted to know the possibilities. It also effects Chaos models also. 

Edited by Heijoshin

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Your right your right, it’s reroll 1s on order and destruction and reroll everything versus chaos 

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