AoS 2 - Ossiarch Bonereapers Discussion

[Izikail]

With the katakros list above i would like to drop one mortek down to 10 and adding eithere a shield or ballistari battalion.

As the crawlers are single units do we thing its worth adding 1 to there attack insted of giving it to a unit with loads more attacks such as 20 mortek or 3 stalkers?

[Arcian]

1 minute ago, Izikail said:

With the katakros list above i would like to drop one mortek down to 10 and adding eithere a shield or ballistari battalion.

As the crawlers are single units do we thing its worth adding 1 to there attack insted of giving it to a unit with loads more attacks such as 20 mortek or 3 stalkers?

That's a good question. Crawlers do 5 damage on their attacks, no rend though.  Maybe it depends on who your opponent is?

[Sception]

41 minutes ago, Izikail said:

With the katakros list above i would like to drop one mortek down to 10 and adding eithere a shield or ballistari battalion.

As the crawlers are single units do we thing its worth adding 1 to there attack insted of giving it to a unit with loads more attacks such as 20 mortek or 3 stalkers?

My list?  If so, I disagree.  3x20 morteks with no other units besides characters and artillery is already few enough bodies that the list will have trouble with the objective game.  Swap Katakros for a Liege and I'd agree, 100ish points for one of those battalions would probably be worth it, but with fully a quarter of your list in a single character and nothing else in the army cheap & efficient enough to buy you some slack, I just don't think you have the space.  And it's not like these units need those battalions to function.  Shield Corps and Ballistari are good, but they don't drastically change or improve how their units function on the table the way the Aegis Immortal or Kavalos Lance do.  And while fewer deployment drops is nice, taking one of those formations still won't get the list low enough to reliably choose who goes first or second, and even if they did the list is actually pretty ok either way.  If they make you go first, you get your buffs and first round of catapult shots off.  If they make you go second they're still probably not doing all that much damage to you and you'll get to heal right after and maybe take the double turn.

Basically, while those two battalions are good, they're expendible, and there just isn't room for them with Katakros there imo.  That you'd even have to drop infantry in a list already lowballing its board presence is proof of that.  Heck, I've been playing around with nagash lists that run as many bodies as that.

If you're dropping anything, it should maybe be one or both of the crawlers, in order to pick up more infantry, not less - though if you do that then taking the shield corps does become a reasonable idea in that case, though even there you might be better with just more models, as again the shield corps, while good, isn't necessary for the units in it to work.  Mostly it gets you a few extra RD points a round between its ability and just being a battalion, but with Katakros and a couple support heroes you aren't exactly hurting for discipline as is.

...

Per the other question, whether it's worth spending the rd point for +1 attack on the crawlers, it is in two cases - first is if you're just not in melee yet, in which case an extra shot from a crawler may be worth more than other uses of the discipline depending on your list, opponent, & so on.  Second is if there's a target that you can't reach with your melee units that simply must be dealt with, a critical buff hero or the like, where every extra shot is an extra chance for them to fail their armor save and just get removed outright.

It's a nice option to be able to throw onto the crawlers, but not critical to how they work.  I wouldn't consider a liege of any sort to be a 'must have' unit when running crawlers or vice versa.

Edited November 13, 2019 by Sception

[Izikail]

I would be inclined to the mortek shield battalion, my rational is rhe list gives about 7rd as is probably 8 after rolls, the shield battalion in essence adds another 2 rd that means you can use katakros unique CA and then give all morteks +1A +1H (from katak) -1 R and reroll saves, every turn without worry, with the healing you have and the ressialiance mentioned i feel like 10 will hold out well enough against most things with the only things outirght killing them being things that can handle 20. It also takes you to 5 drops from 8 which wont beat out the one drops and the like, but when against a msu or non battalion list it will give you the power (although OBR are resistant to turn order it might help

[Darkhan]

How are people planing to handle the burning objectives battleplan with all these 3x10 mortek guard lists?  You have 4 objectives on your side that you will need to guard.

Edited November 13, 2019 by Darkhan

[ACBelMutie]

I have been throwing dices with a calculator and I don't know if playing 2 Catapults can be a good option against Alpha Strike enemies:

Greetings

[Izikail]

Om the morghast topic i personaly dont think we see any morghast changes untill a new addition. They don't edit new tomes in the ghb as they want to let them settle so we wont be see a change there. And an erata dosnt seem appropriate for what they need, so it wont be till a new book that anything changes.

Just a thought, i havnt played death befor, but are morghast kept as they are because of how they interact with another army?

[GeneralZero]

Morghast are successful because they are sexy (one of my very favourite GW mini). But unfortunately they aren't super good on the battlefield.

[Drillz]

So what is the consensus on Katakros in competitive play? He seems to bring a lot to the table with 5RP, 2 solid command abilities, 20w at a 2+ / ++6, not a monster so look out sir is great with all the extra abilities but he is 500pts

[Sception]

3 hours ago, Izikail said:

I would be inclined to the mortek shield battalion, my rational is rhe list gives about 7rd as is probably 8 after rolls, the shield battalion in essence adds another 2 rd 

It's actually an extra 3, since you get one for having a battalion and get a free shield wall in both players combat phases for effectively two more per battle round.  So its even better than you say, and I *still* don't think it's worth sacrificing bodies for in a list that is already shy of bodies given how objective based this game is.

Again, maybe drop one or both a crawlers for it.  A pair of them is probably too greedy in a list that's already paying 500 points for a single hero.  But as is you're already looking at only marginally better than Nagash levels of board presence in a list that doesn't have a Nagash to show for it, so I'd be strongly disinclined to go smaller there.  If you think units of 10 are fine, maybe split one of the 20 man squads into 2x10.  I could see 2x20 & 2x10 being better than 3x20.  But dropping nodels outright feels like the wrong move.

You are right that RD could be better though, that is fair.  At the very least, one of the casters should be taking the discipline spell instead of one of the buffs.  Probably instead of the weapon buff.  Giving d3 units +1 attack or -1 rend or reroll saves or +3 move as needed is better than giving one unit exploding 5s.

[Major]

On 11/9/2019 at 3:49 PM, Scurvydog said:

Pretty simple really. Wraithbone basecoat, skeleton horde contrast all over, then wyldwood contrast on feet, knees etc. Then a light drybrush of ushabti bone. Lastly extreme highlights with wraithbone is optional, I will only be doing that on larger models.

The white bone is simply apothecary white contrast, with ceramite white highlights. I think the apothecary white is one of the most interesting paints in the contrast range, while all the variations of brown are super effective.

Mate I would LOVE to see more shots and angles of these as well as close ups! I am looking at doing something similar but using reds instead. Great work by the way.

[Emissary]

Played a 2,000 point game against a friend tonight.  Thought I'd put up another battlereport.

His army:

Reapers of Vengeance
Bloodthirster of Insensate Rage with Khartoth the Bloodhunger
Wrath of Khorne Bloodthirster General
Skarbrand
Bloodsecrator with Skullshard Mantle
Slaughterpriest
Slaughterpriest
30 Bloodletters
10 Bloodletters
10 Bloodreavers
10 Bloodreavers
Hexgorger Skulls
Tyrants of Blood Battalion

My army:

Crematorians
Arkhan the Black
Liege Kavalos General  with Searing Blade
Mortisan Boneshaper
20 Mortek Guard with Swords
20 Mortek Guard with Swords
5 Kavalos Deathriders with Swords
Gothizzar Harvester
Gothizzar Harvester
Mortek Crawler

I played Crematorians because frankly, I don't really think Petrifex Elite are for friendly games against a non-top tier army.  I just don't want to be that guy or have the new army get that reputation.  Plus I wanted to try something new out.  

 

The mission we got was Scorched Earth.  We set up across from each other.  He held one bloodthirster and blood reaver unit back to secure the back units while I did the same with my deathriders and mortek crawler.

Turn One

He decided to go first.  I got 6 RD points.  He failed to cast the Hexgorger skulls and gave Skarbrand +1 save.  Otherwise he moved his army up and secured his 4 objectives for 4 vps.

I went and gave Arkhan the Protection of Nagash.  The mortek guard near Skarbrand got Enhance Weapons and Reinforce Shields.  Finally their Harvester got Mystic Shield.  To finish things off the Nexus did a mortal wound to the slaughterpriest near Skarbrand.  The mortek crawler then fired at that slaughterpriest, hitting him twice, wounding once and killing him.  With that the bonereapers secured their objectives and secured 4 vps.

Turn Two

The Blades of Khorne win the initiative and choose to go first.  The The bonereapers get 7 RD.  Skarbrand once again gets +1 save and the hexgorger skulls are cast near Arkhan.  His army surges forward and the mortek guard and gothizzar harvester get charged by skarbrand and 10 bloodletters.  Skarbrand activates first and attacks the guard (he was out of range of the harvester).  He manages to kill them all by rolling the 6 to hit with Carnage causing 24 wounds.  Even after the 5+ saves enough die from his other axe to wipe out the squad.  However, he does take 8 mortal wounds back from the Crematorians exploding.  The harvester then activates and wipes out the 10 bloodletters but no longer has anyone to heal or resurrect.  He then scores 4 more vps for a total of 8.

The bonereapers go.  Arkhan expands his casting range and then gives the 30 bloodletters Drain Vitality.  The mortek guard near them also get reinforce battleshields.  Finally he wounds Skarbrand once with an arcane bolt.  At the end of the turn the Nexus gives the 30 bloodletters -1 to hit.  The bonereapers then move up.  The crawler then fires and wounds Skarbrand twice and one gets through killing him.  the harvester near the mortek guard then shoots and kills 2 bloodletters.  The mortek guard charge the 30 (well 28) bloodletters.  They get +1 attack from the liege kavalos and shield wall.  They strike and kill 22 bloodletters.  The remaining 6 then strike back but fail to kill any guard.  The remaining 6 then flee from battleshock.  With this, the turn ends and the bonereapers burn one of the khorne objectives they took from the 30 bloodletters scoring 4+2 for a total of 10.  The hexgorger skulls also fade away.

Turn 3

The Blades again get to go first and the bonereapers get 7 RD.  The slaugherpriest casts the hexgorger skulls and wounds the harvester near the mortek guard 3 times with a blood boil.  10 blood reavers run up to take the objective now only guarded by the 2nd harvester where the first mortek guard were.  Both bloodthirsters then move towards the remaining mortek guard.  They shoot and kill some guard.  They both then charge and the Insensate Rage Bloodthirster goes.  It kills many mortek guard and also wounds the gothizzar and liege kavalos for 3 each off the exploding axe.   The Mortek guard fight the bloodthirsters back and do one wound to the Wrath of Khorne bloodthirster.  Finally the Wrath of Khorne Bloodthirster attacks back but fails to kill anyone (lot of 6+ saves).  the crematorians ability also completely failed to kick in for any of the 12 that died.  He then scored 3 points to get to 11.

The bonereapers then go and Arkhan heals the liege kavalos fully and 3 of the 6 damage on the harvester.  then he brings back 3 mortek guard.  Khorne then smiles and he spends his blood tithe points and lets the Insensate Rage bloodthirster to then fight and he wipes out the mortek guard but also rolls 2 6s to wound doing 8 mortal wounds to the liege kavalos and harvester killing both.  that was a big swing.  Arkhan then rolls a natural 8 to cast his spell and takes 4 mortal wounds from the hexgorger skulls.  This allows him to teleport to an objective in the back.  The deathriders then race forward to charge a unit of blood reavers while the remaining gothizzar harvester moves to the 2nd set of blood reavers.  Both are charged.  The deathriders wipe out one unit of blood reavers while the harvester takes 2 wounds from the blood reavers, attacks and only kills 4 on bad dice rolls but does heal himself those two back.  Arkhan then burns his objective gaining the bonereapers 3+3 for a total of 6 for a total of 16. The hexgorger skulls then fade away again.

Turn 4

The bonereapers finally get to go and generate 2 RD points.  Arkhan bolts the insensate rage blooodthirster twice doing 3 wounds and the slaughterpriest once doing 3 wounds.  Finally, the Nexus blasts the insensate rage for a 4th wound.  Arkhan moves up to the bloodsecrator and slaughterpriest while the deathriders ran back to the backfield objective.  The crawler fires at the insensate rage bloodthirder, hitting and wounding twice and it fails both saves killing it.  Arkhan charges the slaughterpriest and bloodsecrator.  Arkhan and the spirits finish off the slaughterpriest while the bloodsecrator is killed by his steed.  Arkhan then is healed to full.  The remaining blood reavers attack the harvester but fail to wound it and then are killed in return.  The bonereapers then burn the remaining 2 khorne objectives and get a total of 3+5 for a total of 24. 

The lone bloodthirster then goes and moves towards a bonereaper objective.  He then summons a unit of 20 bloodletters near another objective.  Both are burned for a total of 6 getting him to 17.

Turn 5

The bonereapers again get to go first and just spread out to not get attacked.  The nexus did make it so that the bloodthirster couldn't run and could only charge on a d6.  The crawler fires at the bloodletters killing 10 and 4 more run away.  The bonereapers then score 1 more getting to 25.

The Khorne units cannot charge anyone so the turn ends and they don't score anymore.

The final score is 25-17 with a bonereapers victory.

Edited November 14, 2019 by Emissary

[Emissary]

I'll put up some more thoughts later, but I know that a lot of people have been asking about the crawler so I'd post some about it.  

Overall it's nice, but I feel that I got lucky with it.  No rend on it is an issue.  My opponent hated it most though so it does have that going for it.  You have to remember not to look at average wounds for it, rather you have to look at the damage it does per shot.  I spent a lot of time getting units down to 5 or 10 wounds remaining through arcane bolt or the 1 mw off the Nexus so that a failed save from the catapult would kill it.  I killed a slaughterpriest, Skarbrand and Bloodthirster of Insensate Rage that way.  Without the extra wound or two from arcane bolt or the nexus, they wouldn't have died.

[Blitzd]

10 hours ago, Darkhan said:

How are people planing to handle the burning objectives battleplan with all these 3x10 mortek guard lists?  You have 4 objectives on your side that you will need to guard.

That mission is also played long ways. You'll have enough to block off you're board and will only have to worry about teleports

[GeneralZero]

I am super hesitant for my next mini: a crawler OR a harvester. Both have ranged attacks but harvester is more powerful on CC + nice utility (revive/objectives).  The crawler is super long range.

Price (pts) is the same .

Any thoughts?

[Panzer]

Harvester because it's the best looking model of the range.  

[PraetorDragoon]

29 minutes ago, GeneralZero said:

I am super hesitant for my next mini: a crawler OR a harvester. Both have ranged attacks but harvester is more powerful on CC + nice utility (revive/objectives).  The crawler is super long range.

Price (pts) is the same .

Any thoughts?

If you have a bunch of morteks the harvester could be better ruleswise. Not to mention it looks better as well.

[Archimedes]

Hey Guys. Playing a 2.5k game at the weekend. My opponent and I have agreed to go mostly heroes and battleline just for fun.  I'm not very experienced with the hobby ans was wondering what more experienced people think of my list.. 

Allegiance: Ossiarch Bonereapers
 - Mortal Realm: Shyish
 - Legion: Petrifex Elite
LEADERS
Mortisan Soulmason (140)
- General
- Command Trait : Mighty Archaeossian 
- Artefact : Godbone Armour 
- Lore of Mortisans : Empower Nadirite Weapons
Arkhan the Black, Mortarch of Sacrament (360)
Liege-Kavalos (200)
- Artefact : Helm of the Ordained 
Mortisan Boneshaper (130)
- Artefact : Artisan's Key 
- Lore of Mortisans : Reinforce Battle-shields
UNITS
20 x Mortek Guard (260)
- Nadirite Blade and Shield
20 x Mortek Guard (260)
- Nadirite Blade and Shield
20 x Mortek Guard (260)
- Nadirite Blade and Shield
5 x Kavalos Deathriders (180)
- Nadirite Blade and Shield
5 x Kavalos Deathriders (180)
- Nadirite Blade and Shield
BEHEMOTHS
Gothizzar Harvester (200)
BATTALIONS
Kavalos Lance (120)
Mortek Shield-corps (120)
ENDLESS SPELLS / TERRAIN / COMMAND POINTS
Bone-tithe Shrieker (30)
Soulstealer Carrion (20)
TOTAL: 2460/2500 EXTRA COMMAND POINTS: 2 WOUNDS: 128

[GeneralZero]

1 hour ago, Panzer said:

Harvester because it's the best looking model of the range.  

TBH, on the look side of the question, the crawler is huge and looks majectic on the battlefield. The harvester, side by side seems tiny. I was first attracted by the look of the catapult, maybe because I wanted one for so long in my skeleton army. But it can't be added to (OBR has no ally). Rule wise, I think that the harvester is a bit more efficient, more versatile. I don't want to spam crawlers. I think that the best way of playing the catapult is to hit where you can help an heavy punch of hammer troops. Want both. But only one for now. I'll probably try first the harvester.

[Nuradin]

And here I was sitting and thinking the harvester is by far the ugliest modell in the entire army. A bone-rat... If I only went for looks I would never have bought it,  but I like what it does, so I bought one. Will start with one crawler and one harvester to see.. 

I havent built my  crawler tet though.. i assume there Will be some subassembly for painting! 

Edited November 14, 2019 by Nuradin

[Logan8054]

Hey Guys,

Tom mentioned a gif or a video on a recent warhammer weekly that talks about the harvester.  Was wondering if anyone had a link to it.  Its in reference to having 2 of them on the table.

 

Thanks.

[ACBelMutie]

I have been testing the Catapults again. I played 100 turns for each test:

Test 1:

• 1x Catapult => 3 attacks at 2/3/-/5
• Average Damage: 4,75/turn

Test 2: 

• 1x Catapult with -1 to Rend => 3 attacks at 2/3/-1/5
• Average Damage: 6,45/turn

Test 3:

• 2x Catapult => 6 attacks at 2/3/-/5
• Average Damage: 7,65/turn

Test 4:

• 2x Catapult with +1 Attack => 8 attacks at 2/3/-/5
• Average Damage: 11,2/turn

 

I'm not sure if they worth what they cost. From 200 to 400 points to deal a few damage and they are vulnerable because of the minimun range (6"), what do you think about them?

Greetings

Edited November 14, 2019 by ACBelMutie
test 5 is not correct

[Gwendar]

28 minutes ago, ACBelMutie said:

Test 2: 

• 1x Catapult with -1 to Rend => 3 attacks at 2/3/-1/5
• Average Damage: 6,45/turn

Where's the rend coming from? Petrfiex CA is only combat phase if that's what you're referring to. I really don't think you can look at "average damage" from this thing like you can with other units. You really just have to look at it as a gamble to get 1-2 of those 5 damage shots through and looking at an average doesn't convey that well.

I still see worth in them, but I lean towards having only 1 and thinking of it more of as a support piece. I think @Emissary's way of using it seemed to work well in that it could finish off units hit with plink damage done by Arkhan or against low save hordes. This army already struggles a bit against deepstrike\teleporting armies and those could easily shut down it down.

As much as I would like to bring one against my local Seraphon player, I don't think I ever would because I know he would just teleport near it with Skinks and keep it occupied the entire game... and that really boils down to not having enough bodies to screen and I would rather (read: need them) on objectives rather than guarding a 200 point model.

Edited November 14, 2019 by Gwendar

[Sception]

IMO catapults are less about average damage and more about the threat of removing 5 wound support heroes from behind enemy lines with a single failed save.

[ACBelMutie]

18 minutes ago, Gwendar said:

Where's the rend coming from? Petrfiex CA is only combat phase if that's what you're referring to. I really don't think you can look at "average damage" from this thing like you can with other units. You really just have to look at it as a gamble to get 1-2 of those 5 damage shots through and looking at an average doesn't convey that well.

Ok, I forgot that!!

Greetings